Arrow Writers using Arrow to tell rehashed Batman stories

[harryoscop]

Ever since Amell bad-mouthed the DCCU I haven't been watching the show.

 

[Human Torch]

Ever since Amell bad-mouthed the DCCU I haven't been watching the show.

 

[harryoscop]

Actually i've never really watched the show; never cared for the Green Arrow character anyways, bad choice of words on my part.
But I do remember him saying something negative about Flash.. I'm not sure, I'm too lazy to dig up the article lol.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

It's only an issue for comic books readers, for the rest of us who don't know all Batman/Green Arrow stories it's of no concern.

 

[Human Torch]

Actually i've never really watched the show; never cared for the Green Arrow character anyways, bad choice of words on my part.
But I do remember him saying something negative about Flash.. I'm not sure, I'm too lazy to dig up the article lol.

If I remember correctly he objected to them announcing Ezra Miller as the DCCU Flash,the day after the CW series came out,not giving them a chance to bask in the series success.

He also was disappointed that they didn't give Grant Gusten the role instead of Ezra in the Flash movie.(Of which I wholeheartedly agree.)

 

[chamber-music]

Ra's al Ghul trained Merlyn in the comics. Merlyn was one of the leagues seven most deadly assassins and part of a elite inner squad that answered only to Ras.

The league being involved in a proxy war between Green Arrow and Merlyn makes sense.

There was also this show's version of Count Vertigo, which felt they were trying to do Scarecrow. Especially when they brought in Stormare and he changed the drug to bring out people's fears.

If there is one villain they have dropped the ball with it is Count Vertigo. Stormare is coming back so hopefully they improve the character.

 

[harryoscop]

If I remember correctly he objected to them announcing Ezra Miller as the DCCU Flash,the day after the CW series came out,not giving them a chance to bask in the series success.

He also was disappointed that they didn't give Grant Gusten the role instead of Ezra in the Flash movie.(Of which I wholeheartedly agree.)

In that case I agree with him (except the part with Grant getting the role in the DCCU)

 

[Pokkle]

 

[S. Grundy]

Actually i've never really watched the show; never cared for the Green Arrow character anyways, bad choice of words on my part.
But I do remember him saying something negative about Flash.. I'm not sure, I'm too lazy to dig up the article lol.

All he said was he thought it was kinda ****** how DC announced a cinematic Flash so soon after the TV series premiered. And he was kinda right.

 

[dude stannis]

I loved seeing an iconic moment from the comics and BTAS play out in live action. Besides, it segued into cribbing from an iconic Superman story.

 

[Mike Murdock]

There was also this show's version of Count Vertigo, which felt they were trying to do Scarecrow. Especially when they brought in Stormare and he changed the drug to bring out people's fears.

Stormare, yes, but not the original Count. The changed formula served a plot purpose (a ham-fisted one, though). I hope they change the formula back to go less Scarecrow-y. If they want Sacrecrow, they can always introduce Scarecrow.

But I went into Arrow knowing very little about his Rogue's Gallery. I left season one knowing Count Vertigo was an Arrow villain. At least that much was made clear to me, even though I think it's fair to say any grounded villain in the DC-verse is fair game to Arrow (and, likewise, any fantastical one goes on the Flash).

 

[Kar]

It's only an issue for comic books readers, for the rest of us who don't know all Batman/Green Arrow stories it's of no concern.

Nah, I'm familiar with Green Arrow's mythos and this doesn't bother me at all.

And if I read another post *****ing about the damn shirtless sword fight....

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Why thank you, Michael B. Jordan.

well played, but the producers were up front about what this show was from day one, why start *****ing now?

 

[dnno1]

So since the very 1st pilot episode, this show got a lot of comparisons to "Batman Begins".

But lately, it's getting way too obvious now. Like a lot of people said, so far Season 3 is the weakest less original of the series.

Not a fan of Bat... I mean "Arrow Begins" rehash; it's like the writers are asking themselves:

"What should we do with Arrow?"

"Let's use Arrow to tell rehashed Batman stories! But since we're making it blatantly obvious to the viewers, let's poke fun at it by having Cisco guess star to tease every single Batman similarity!"

Also not feeling the Batman & Robin aka Arrow & Arsenal ride alongs. Next up, Batgirl aka Canary; more Batman doors to open up.

Arrow could've just ended in S2, then just make a brand new Batman TV show instead.

PS: edit - had no idea my phone kept auto-correcting Batman to Baton.

This is not a fair criticism . True, Green Arrow is a Batman knockoff, but in the Golden Age the character was meant to be a more light-hearted version of Batman. This new re-imagining of the characters a lot darker, but only because a lot of comic book fans have a taste for the dark side of a character, but the origin of Arrow as shown in this version of the character is very innovative in that there is a lot more back-story on what went down when Oliver Queen was stranded on that island. The island now has a name and a history. We now know that the character not just only learned how to use a bow and arrow, but also forged himself into a living weapon. He also met other villains or antagonist in the DC universe while he was away. The movie, "Batman Begins" may have shown Bruce Wayne beating up criminals in a prison but they never showed the type of trauma Oliver Queen went through while on the island of Li An Yu. This type of story is not unique to just Batman. You have the Scarlet Pimpernel, Zorro, Robin Hood and others, who go away and train. Somehow to be the heroes that they are today. do you do shin of characters such as Roy Harper, Black Canary, and others are just not only part of the Green Arrow mythos, but also ways to appease fans you want to see these characters on the TV show.

 

[chamber-music]

Sidekicks aren't limited to Batman.

I don't really understand the comments about Arsenal and Canary as they are both long term partners of Green Arrow for decades.

Green Arrow has been portrayed as a slight hearted swashbuckling superhero as well as a gritty urban vigilante. Anyone who has read Green Arrow comic will see influences from it in the show from Mike Grell's Longbow Hunters to Diggle and Jock's Green Arrow: Year One.

 

[kguillou]

Thing is, sometimes in order to adapt these lesser known characters you have to kind of borrow elements that work from other areas. Another example is Flash. I think a big reason why the show is connecting with people so well is because they have made this version of Barry Allen very "Peter Parker"-ish. That show has a lot of Sam Raimi Spider-man elements to it and it works very well for them. There's no problem with borrowing elements and themes as long as it fits and works well.

 

[The Batman]

My main problem with the show stealing Batman villains is that they're giving Ra's the big bad treatment before fixing their awful treatment of Vertigo. I understand that GA has a weak rogue's gallery, but actually make the few notable rogues he does have into true threats. They did so with Merlyn (Even though, lets face it, he's a bit of a Norman Osborn clone), but haven't done so with Vertigo. Luckily, there's at least two seasons left, so maybe they can rectify this.

Another problem with the Batman copying is Ollie's characterization. He is very much Bruce Wayne lite whereas in the comics, he eventually developed his own distinct persona. I think it would've been cool to see him start off darker before becoming more like the Oliver in the comics, but the Arrow/Flash crossover has convinced me that his characterization may more or less stay the same.

 

[Kar]

He'll never be like the comic Green Arrow until he starts fighting crime in the daytime.

 

[dnno1]

My main problem with the show stealing Batman villains is that they're giving Ra's the big bad treatment before fixing their awful treatment of Vertigo. I understand that GA has a weak rogue's gallery, but actually make the few notable rogues he does have into true threats. They did so with Merlyn (Even though, lets face it, he's a bit of a Norman Osborn clone), but haven't done so with Vertigo. Luckily, there's at least two seasons left, so maybe they can rectify this.

Another problem with the Batman copying is Ollie's characterization. He is very much Bruce Wayne lite whereas in the comics, he eventually developed his own distinct persona. I think it would've been cool to see him start off darker before becoming more like the Oliver in the comics, but the Arrow/Flash crossover has convinced me that his characterization may more or less stay the same.

You could look at it that way (that they are stealing Batman villains), but that would be a narrow minded view of what they are trying to do. It is actually good marketing. They are appeasing to fans of other heroes (namely Batman) to draw their interest to the series as well as give them an Easter egg to enjoy. I think we need to get over this Batman clone meme and enjoy the series for what it is. Lots of other comic book characters are based on wealthy millionare/playboy type of people turned crimefigher or villain (Bruce Wayne, Tony Stark, Ted Khord, Curtis Metcalf, John Henry Irons, Alexander Luthor, Norman Osborne, Henry Pym, Charles Xavier, Emma Frost, Reed Richards, Oliver Queen, Victor Von Doom, et. al.). It really seems more credible that a super hero/villain have a big income to pay for all the fancy toys they have anyways.

 

[The Batman]

You could look at it that way (that they are stealing Batman villains), but that would be a narrow minded view of what they are trying to do.

Ok, Dnno.

I'm gonna look at it how it actually is: Producers nicking other heroes' rogues because GA has no depth when it comes to his rogues gallery.

 

[dnno1]

Ok, Dnno.

I'm gonna look at it how it actually is: Producers nicking other heroes' rogues because GA has no depth when it comes to his rogues gallery.

Okay so we have:

Deadshot
Doll Maker
Firefly
Huntress
Nissa Al Ghul

"Arrow" has been through 55 episodes and there have only been 5 Batman villains that we have seen that have appeared in a total of 15 episodes (Clock King, Deathstroke, and the League of Assassins don't count since they did not make their first appearances in any of the exclusive Batman titles -- and Harley Quin was just a cameo appearance). What about the other 38 episodes? I think we are making something out of nothing here. Yes, Mark Gugenheim and Andrew Kreisberg have both gone on record to say that they were inspired by the Christopher Nolan films and wanted to portray a darker Green Arrow character, but just be cause they featured four villains known to be associated with the Batman franchise it should indicate that they are just copying off of Batman. What about Black Hawk squadron, the Royal Flush Gang, Bronze Tiger, the Suicide Squad or Captain Boomerang? These guest appearances were for the fans of those characters and also done in a attempt to spawn interest in the series form fans who wouldn't normally watch the show. It's not because Arrow has a bad gallery of rogues, since they could have just as easily made his villains just as notorious.

 

[JC00]

I wouldnt put Huntress and Deadshot on that list. Deadshot may have debuted in Batman but he is far from a Batman-only rogue. He's more associated with the Suicide Squad now than Batman. And Huntress debuted in Huntress #1.

 

[O'Haire]

I don't give a rats ass what they steal from. I've been enjoying the hell out of the show since the beginning and will continue to do so.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Like I said (and dnno1's more in depth analysis tends to show) is that Arrow is not borrowing from Batman. Arrow is borrowing from DC as a whole. I don't personally think that's a bad thing. It introduced me to corners of DC I wasn't as familiar with. I agree it's probably brought out by the Green Arrow having a weak Rogue's Gallery, but they're making the most of what they have and I certainly don't think it's fair to call it a Batman clone.

 

[gugumugats]

There was also this show's version of Count Vertigo, which felt they were trying to do Scarecrow. Especially when they brought in Stormare and he changed the drug to bring out people's fears.

Let's not forget (but we want to) their original iteration of Count Vertigo where they tried to draw upon Heath Joker.

I was honestly hyped from the casting announcement and the set pic but boy was I disappointed from the original Vertigo episode.

I really hope Stormare redeems the Count Vertigo title, even if he comes off as a Scarecrow ripoff.