Arrow Writers using Arrow to tell rehashed Batman stories

[Human Torch]

I don't give a rats ass what they steal from. I've been enjoying the hell out of the show since the beginning and will continue to do so.

Too true.


I wouldn't exactly say their version of Firefly was anything to write home about either.I'd love to see a re-take on Firefly & The Royal Flush Gang in the future.

 

[Lantern Venom]

So since the very 1st pilot episode, this show got a lot of comparisons to "Batman Begins".

But lately, it's getting way too obvious now. Like a lot of people said, so far Season 3 is the weakest less original of the series.

Not a fan of Bat... I mean "Arrow Begins" rehash; it's like the writers are asking themselves:

.

I think the reasoning is simple: Green Arrow from the comics is a boring character. I know I'll get flamed for saying that, but look at the facts: he has a dated, hippie personality, and he uses an ancient weapon in a world of super tech, monsters, and metahumans. That just screams "minor character".

To make Oliver work on screen, they've given him a more Bruce Wayne-like personality, plenty of supporting tech-based characters for an updated feel, and they're drawing on the DC mythos as a whole for villains and settings. I'm usually the guy who denounces adaptations that change the comics, but in this case it was a necessity.

 

[Mike Murdock]

BTW, I'm not sure it makes sense to "redeem" characters they've already used by attempting to use them again. Is it unfortunate that they fell short of what they could be? I'd say yes, but I'd also argue that it might have been necessary to sell the first season to the audience. But things start to make less sense if there are two versions of the characters floating around. Count Vertigo might be the only one they can explain two versions (since there's the drug Vertigo so they only need anyone to become the Count). On the other hand, if they screw up this new version, there's no going back for a third version, imo.

 

[The Batman]

It's not because Arrow has a bad gallery of rogues,

No, its cause Green Arrow has a bad gallery of rogues. If he a Batman/Spider-Man level quality of rogues, he wouldn't need a major Batman villain to be the big bad of Season 3, nor would he need the Teen Titans archenemy as the big bad of season 2. Thats all there is to it. Your reasoning is just a bonus, not the reason why they utilize other people's rogues gallery.

 

[chamber-music]

My main problem with the show stealing Batman villains is that they're giving Ra's the big bad treatment before fixing their awful treatment of Vertigo. I understand that GA has a weak rogue's gallery, but actually make the few notable rogues he does have into true threats. They did so with Merlyn (Even though, lets face it, he's a bit of a Norman Osborn clone), but haven't done so with Vertigo. Luckily, there's at least two seasons left, so maybe they can rectify this.

Another problem with the Batman copying is Ollie's characterization. He is very much Bruce Wayne lite whereas in the comics, he eventually developed his own distinct persona. I think it would've been cool to see him start off darker before becoming more like the Oliver in the comics, but the Arrow/Flash crossover has convinced me that his characterization may more or less stay the same.

The showrunners say there end game is to bring Arrow closer to his comic counterpart over the shows life time which is why he started off as a face paint wearing murdering vigilante and is gradually becoming the masked superhero known as Green Arrow.

I hope eventually we will get to see the more socially conscious and out going Oliver Queen because the relentlessly angst filled, serious, traumatised and repressed Oliver Queen is a bit one dull.

It wouldn't hurt the show is Oliver and Roy cracked a joke or two around there friends and families more often.

 

[JC00]

No, its cause Green Arrow has a bad gallery of rogues. If he a Batman/Spider-Man level quality of rogues, he wouldn't need a major Batman villain to be the big bad of Season 3, nor would he need the Teen Titans archenemy as the big bad of season 2. Thats all there is to it. Your reasoning is just a bonus, not the reason why they utilize other people's rogues gallery.

Wasn't Deathstroke just used as the major villain in Beware the Batman and Son of Batman?

So does that mean Batman's rogues are that good if they are using a "Teen Titans archenemy as the big bad" or is Deathstoke a little more than just a Teen Titans villain and you're just being a hypocrite about it?

Also maybe it's just me but Merlyn has been the bigger bad of Season 3 so far. Got Thea to kill Sara which ended up getting Oliver a sword through his chest and kicked off a mountain

 

[chamber-music]

The Flash ahas one of the best Rouges gallery in comics and they have used other heroes villains like the Mist who is a Starman villain.

We have a three episode appearance of Green Arow villain Brick coming up in the next half of Arrows season.

 

[The Batman]

Wasn't Deathstroke just used as the major villain in Beware the Batman and Son of Batman?

So does that mean Batman's rogues are that good if they are using a "Teen Titans archenemy as the big bad" or is Deathstoke a little more than just a Teen Titans villain and you're just being a hypocrite about it?

Also maybe it's just me but Merlyn has been the bigger bad of Season 3 so far. Got Thea to kill Sara which ended up getting Oliver a sword through his chest and kicked off a mountain

Don't forget that Beware the Batman, being the fourth modern Batman cartoon, made a conscious decision to do something new and not focus on the more well known Batman rogues or sidekicks, hence the reason why Deathstroke and other more obscure DC villains/heroes made appearances.

You do, however, got me on "Son of Batman", and it was a baffling decision, to say the least.

I don't see Merlyn as the big bad, more like the "Sebastian Blood" of this season.

The showrunners say there end game is to bring Arrow closer to his comic counterpart over the shows life time which is why he started off as a face paint wearing murdering vigilante and is gradually becoming the masked superhero known as Green Arrow.

I hope eventually we will get to see the more socially conscious and out going Oliver Queen because the relentlessly angst filled, serious, traumatised and repressed Oliver Queen is a bit one dull.

It wouldn't hurt the show is Oliver and Roy cracked a joke or two around there friends and families more often.

Yeah. Obviously, this isn't going to be full on comic book Ollie, but I would like to see Amell get closer to that characterization.

The Flash ahas one of the best Rouges gallery in comics and they have used other heroes villains like the Mist who is a Starman villain.

We have a three episode appearance of Green Arow villain Brick coming up in the next half of Arrows season.

Truth is, several DC related shows have borrowed other villains rogues. Smallville used Deathstroke, the Batman TV show used the Puzzler, BTAS used Count Vertigo, etc.

 

[ardee]

I noticed it even in season 2 but who cares?

Season 2 was pretty similar to Rises. Loses company, head of company who he sleeps with betrays him, has to defeat a man mountain either from his past or associated with his past who already badly beat him once.

There are actually a lot of parallels, though not linear, again, not that that's a bad thing.

Slade is a Liam Neeson Ra's/Bane combination.
Isabel is Talia.
Arrow Ra's fight with Ollie reminded me of Bane breaking Bruce.
Post season 1 Lance is pretty much Gordon.

Again, it's not a bad thing to me. Allows me to reminisce about my favourite trilogy ever.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Eh, show wouldn't be that good if they weren't ripping off Batman stuff imo.
However I don't like they aren't allowed to acknowledge the source of it, having full on Ra's but a 'WayneTech' easteregg is the best they can do.

 

[gugumugats]

Eh, show wouldn't be that good if they weren't ripping off Batman stuff imo.
However I don't like they aren't allowed to acknowledge the source of it, having full on Ra's but a 'WayneTech' easteregg is the best they can do.

Maybe they're concerned that a big name like Batman or even his very existence might overshadow Ollie.

 

[Primal Slayer]

That's what throw away lines are for. Give just enough to have the diehards pick up on, talk about and move on with the story.

 

[dnno1]

I wouldnt put Huntress and Deadshot on that list. Deadshot may have debuted in Batman but he is far from a Batman-only rogue. He's more associated with the Suicide Squad now than Batman. And Huntress debuted in Huntress #1.

Tbis is true, but I am going to give The Batma the benefit of.the doubt and include them as batman villains since they first appeared in a Batman comic. Even with that, the number of Bat villains and appearances on the show is small compared to the number of appearances that villains associated with the Arrow family have made.

 

[Infinity9999x]

To a point, I see what the OP is saying. Arrow has been ripping from Batman hard core. However, as many have pointed out, GA in the comics started out that way as well. However, this is how I look at it:

Had Batman been an available character to include in the WB-tv-verse, I would be pissed right now. Ra's is a Batman villain. Not only is he a Batman villain, he's one of THE Batman villains. I would have been pissed that Arrow would be doing Ra's without including Batman. It's akin to having Doc Ock show up as a villain for say, Daredevil, without Spider-man show up. (And yes, I know Marvel doesn't own Spider-man rights. It's just a theoretical example.)

However, since the creators of this show have said they CAN'T use Batman, and have insinuated that they would like to, I'm okay with this. You have to accept that Green Arrow, in this TV-universe is Batman. Green Arrow is the Batman of this world. And I'm fine with that. Were Batman a character that they could use, I wouldn't be all right with it. But since he's not, I'm fine with this.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I suspect there's an embargo on Batman (although this embargo seems to be one way because the movies can poach Flash if they want to). It also probably means there's one on Superman, which'll be odd if CBS's show about Kara Zor-El goes through.

 

[bullets]

im a big fan of what they are doing and I love their version of Flash. Since we won't be getting Batman on this show I don't mind if they use some of his villians. The Riddler or Joker might be strange to use , but anyone who operates outside of Gotham ( league of shadows) or is a member of Suicide squad it makes sense to use them. They don't need a Harley Quinn , but t would of been cool to see her on the show. They don't want to saturate Batman and Superman supposedly so that's why they are focusing on other characters. It would awesome do they mentioned them on the show but then it would be weird that they never showed up if something really crazy was going down. It's nice to build a fanbase for Green Arrow and Flash. It's kind of like having a Batman and Superman in that Flash has superpowers and Arrow is basically Batman.

 

[JC00]

Tbis is true, but I am going to give The Batma the benefit of.the doubt and include them as batman villains since they first appeared in a Batman comic. Even with that, the number of Bat villains and appearances on the show is small compared to the number of appearances that villains associated with the Arrow family have made.

Helena Bertinelli debuted in Huntress #1.