X-Men TV Show Comment was Foreshadowing

[Kahran Ramsus]

Namor isn't happening because Universal still has the distribution rights. It's the same reason we haven't seen a solo Hulk movie since TIH. They can use Namor in other characters films, but not in a solo movie without Universal leaching off of them.

In that case, I don't think Marvel should be concerned at all. Namor has always been most interesting as a supporting character or villain. I have no desire to see a Namor solo.

 

[SoaringSupes]

The MCU F4 reboot should have a different villain then Doctor Doom. Save him for the second movie. Who would you guys want as the villain? I'd go with Mole Man...

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The MCU F4 reboot should have a different villain then Doctor Doom. Save him for the second movie. Who would you guys want as the villain? I'd go with Mole Man...

Depends on when it happens. If they haven't been introduced yet, I would probably go with the Skrulls to eventually set up Secret Invasion and Kree-Skrull War down the road.

 

[Eddie]

The MCU F4 reboot should have a different villain then Doctor Doom. Save him for the second movie. Who would you guys want as the villain? I'd go with Mole Man...

I've wanted Skrulls in an origin film for some time (if you must tie the villain into the origin, as Hollywood tends to do, go with the space origin and throw aliens into the mix). That said, they probably shouldn't do an origin film. If the first film jumps right in with an already established team, I think a big budget extravaganza with giant monsters could be awesome. Mole Man, Monster Isle, Giganto...

So much potential in a superheroes versus giant monsters film. Hopefully something like that can happen someday.

 

[SoaringSupes]

Skrulls would be great!

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The MCU F4 reboot should have a different villain then Doctor Doom. Save him for the second movie. Who would you guys want as the villain? I'd go with Mole Man...

I think it would be almost impossible to make something less interesting than what they've done, but I could definitely get into a Mole-Man as a first film.

If so, I wouldn't make the focus Mole-Man as much as I'd focus on subterranea.

It could start as it did in FF #1 with a creature attacking NYC, and then the FF would go to explore.

They would encounter spectacular under-ground features, creatures, maybe even civilizations as they faced challenges and dangers before ultimately meeting up with Mole-Man.

 

[Zarex]

I like the Mole Man being used as the introductory villain. The four are going about their business in a similar vein to FF#1, when a monster bursts through the pavement and the teammates converge on 1960s era Times Square. The Mole Man is captured, the beast is sent back underground, cue title sequence.

If they go with the cold war setting, I like the idea of Victor developing a weapon of mass destruction as a means of keeping both the Soviets and the Americans out of his business. The team is sent in to dismantle it when - plot twist - they realize that they were betrayed, and Doom needs their cosmic energy to power his massive cosmically enhanced robotic weapon - Doomsman!

The team frees themself from multiple ingenious traps in Castle Doom, battle Latverian soldiers, Doombots and finally face the Doomsman himself. When it turns on its master, Doom is forced to join his enemies to destroy the creature. Afterwards, Victor haughtily tells the 4 to leave his country before he has them hung.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I think part of the reason many people have a hard time believing a deal will ever happen is they think people at both Fox and Marvel are as extreme ideological hard-liners as many of the people around here.

But ideological differences can quickly be overcome when checks with lots of zeros start going back and forth.

Didn't Fox just make a film that featured the line: "We're stronger together than we are apart"?

It's not that they're ideological hard-liners, but looking at the relationship between 20th Century Fox and Marvel Entertainment, it's hard to see a deal happening. Even when it looked like there was zero chance of the Spider-Man film rights being handled by Marvel Studios, Sony Pictures and Marvel were at least on good working terms with one another and cooperated on the Spider-Man IP to their benefit like Marvel giving up their cut in the box office in return for merchandising and television rights.

20th Century Fox and Marvel on the other hand don't seem to be getting along at all from being unable to make rights swaps regarding Daredevil/Silver Surfer, Marvel rather pettily cutting off Fantastic Four merchandise, 20th Century Fox making a bad Fantastic Four film for the sole purpose to keep the film rights, etc. And you can't blame one side over the other on this one, these two entities just do not seem to have a good working relationship at all. The purchase of Lucasfilm by the Walt Disney Company probably didn't help things either.

In order for any deal to get made, a good working relationship needs to be there to begin with. The Sony/Marvel Spider-Man deal happened because even though Marvel had no shot at getting the film rights, they still had a good working relationship with one another and it allowed Sony and Marvel to work a deal that was mutually beneficial to the both of them. The Fox/Marvel/Disney relationship on the other hand is just bad and they need a bit more than just zeroes to get it going.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It's not that they're ideological hard-liners, but looking at the relationship between 20th Century Fox and Marvel Entertainment, it's hard to see a deal happening. Even when it looked like there was zero chance of the Spider-Man film rights being handled by Marvel Studios, Sony Pictures and Marvel were at least on good working terms with one another and cooperated on the Spider-Man IP to their benefit like Marvel giving up their cut in the box office in return for merchandising and television rights.

20th Century Fox and Marvel on the other hand don't seem to be getting along at all from being unable to make rights swaps regarding Daredevil/Silver Surfer, Marvel rather pettily cutting off Fantastic Four merchandise, 20th Century Fox making a bad Fantastic Four film for the sole purpose to keep the film rights, etc. And you can't blame one side over the other on this one, these two entities just do not seem to have a good working relationship at all.

In order for any deal to get made, a good working relationship needs to be there to begin with. The Sony/Marvel Spider-Man deal happened because even though Marvel had no shot at getting the film rights, they still had a good working relationship with one another and it allowed Sony and Marvel to work a deal that was mutually beneficial to the both of them. The Fox/Marvel/Disney relationship on the other hand is just bad and they need a bit more than just zeroes to get it going.

They certainly have had issues in the past, but things can change.

And companies like this can't leave money on the table because they're big babies that can't learn to work together. They have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to work together if working together can help the bottom line.

No Fox board-member deserves to keep their seat if they turn down a reasonable offer from marvel for a property that is worthless to Fox, and no Marvel board-member deserves to keep their seat if they don't make a reasonable offer for characters that could be cornerstones of billion-dollar films.

 

[Eddie]

To be fair, Marvel doesn't seem to be as upset about Deadpool. They've announced another Deadpool book (one that almost feels relevant to the film, what with Cable apparently planned for any potential sequel), Deadpool has some merchandise on shelves (not sure if any of it is new, but they definitely have plenty in stock in my area), and the Deadpool game mysteriously appeared on digital storefronts after having been pulled some time ago.

Maybe Deadpool is the olive branch here, and perhaps a television rights for Fantastic Four deal can happen...

 

[Zarex]

It's not that they're ideological hard-liners, but looking at the relationship between 20th Century Fox and Marvel Entertainment, it's hard to see a deal happening. Even when it looked like there was zero chance of the Spider-Man film rights being handled by Marvel Studios, Sony Pictures and Marvel were at least on good working terms with one another and cooperated on the Spider-Man IP to their benefit like Marvel giving up their cut in the box office in return for merchandising and television rights.

20th Century Fox and Marvel on the other hand don't seem to be getting along at all from being unable to make rights swaps regarding Daredevil/Silver Surfer, Marvel rather pettily cutting off Fantastic Four merchandise, 20th Century Fox making a bad Fantastic Four film for the sole purpose to keep the film rights, etc. And you can't blame one side over the other on this one, these two entities just do not seem to have a good working relationship at all. The purchase of Lucasfilm by the Walt Disney Company probably didn't help things either.

In order for any deal to get made, a good working relationship needs to be there to begin with. The Sony/Marvel Spider-Man deal happened because even though Marvel had no shot at getting the film rights, they still had a good working relationship with one another and it allowed Sony and Marvel to work a deal that was mutually beneficial to the both of them. The Fox/Marvel/Disney relationship on the other hand is just bad and they need a bit more than just zeroes to get it going.

We've received multiple confirmations from senior FOX execs that they've entered into negotiations with Marvel in regards to the X-Men TV rights, so at the very least the two sides are talking. As others have stated, there's too much money on the line for both parties to kill a deal out of spite. FOX gets their X-Men TV rights, Marvel gets the FF character franchise, and both sides can resume their Cold War immediately upon leaving the board room.

 

[Aztec]

We've received multiple confirmations from senior FOX execs that they've entered into negotiations with Marvel in regards to the X-Men TV rights, so at the very least the two sides are talking. As others have stated, there's too much money on the line for both parties to kill a deal out of spite. FOX gets their X-Men TV rights, Marvel gets the FF character franchise, and both sides can resume their Cold War immediately upon leaving the board room.

Exactly.

 

[SAUspartan]

I would assume the X-Men TV rights would include a percentage going to Marvel. So Fox does all the work and Marvel collects the money. Free money is never a bad thing.

This. This is what a deal for the TV show will be. Not rights in exchange for rights like some are saying.

 

[Aztec]

This. This is what a deal for the TV show will be. Not rights in exchange for rights like some are saying.

Look at the history between the two. Marvel/Disney wanted to trade rights a few years ago (Daredevil for Silver Surfer and Galactus) and Fox turned them down. Now Fox is down, out, and humiliated by The Craptacular 4 and in need of a victory. The IP is worth nothing to them but that TV deal is worth a lot. So they both have an itch that the other can scratch. Don't you find the timing of these public statements of a need to "negotiate with Marvel" kind of interesting? The day the F4 dropped and flopped?

This deal will happen. IMHO sooner rather than later.

 

[Zarex]

This. This is what a deal for the TV show will be. Not rights in exchange for rights like some are saying.

Why would Marvel agree to giving up their monopoly on Marvel branded programming for FOX's scraps? Rights reversion will be part of the deal or it won't get done.

 

[Mysteryman]

Fox has no obligation to give the rights up.
It may happen , but , it won't happen unless Fox gets something in return.

 

[Knight_SV]

The only realistic way is marvel give fox the x-men tv rights and fox gives marvel the ff rights full. Considering how bomb the fant4stic there's no doubt people will getting upset if fox still harming the property

 

[hippie_hunter]

Why would Marvel agree to giving up their monopoly on Marvel branded programming for FOX's scraps? Rights reversion will be part of the deal or it won't get done.

I think that if a deal gets done, it will get done regardless of the Fantastic Four rights. Any negotiations are probably focused around merchandising and advertising revenues. I can see Marvel not caring about the Fantastic Four film rights in return for 100% of merchandising rights of both the X-Men and Fantastic Four (which are useless to Fox since Marvel refuses to pump out merchandise for those IPs) and a reasonable cut of the advertising revenue. Maybe something that involves distribution.

If any rights transfers are done as a result of this deal, I would imagine it would more likely be a transfer of a few characters that 20th Century Fox has no need due to the tone the X-Men films have taken but can enrich Marvel's already existing IPs or IPs they intend to build upon like Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel. Still don't expect the Fantastic Four to jump along.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Why would Marvel settle for mere merchandising and advertising revenues and "a few characters" when they might have an opportunity to get back %100 of the Fantastic Four as well?

 

[hippie_hunter]

Why would Marvel settle for mere merchandising and advertising revenues and "a few characters" when they might have an opportunity to get back %100 of the Fantastic Four as well?

Fox may not be willing to give up the rights just yet or maybe Disney/Marvel don't have any interest in the Fantastic Four film rights. Fox damaged the brand quite heavily and Marvel Studios' film slate is demanding enough as it is.

Meanwhile getting a few characters like the Skrulls, Shi'ar, Silver Surfer, etc. would present great opportunities for Marvel to expand upon their Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel IPs. If they get 100% of the Fantastic Four, good for them, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It's not like 20th Century Fox is in the position that Sony Pictures was in over the Spider-Man IP or in the same position they were in with their struggles.

 

[Zarex]

I think that if a deal gets done, it will get done regardless of the Fantastic Four rights. Any negotiations are probably focused around merchandising and advertising revenues. I can see Marvel not caring about the Fantastic Four film rights in return for 100% of merchandising rights of both the X-Men and Fantastic Four (which are useless to Fox since Marvel refuses to pump out merchandise for those IPs) and a reasonable cut of the advertising revenue. Maybe something that involves distribution.

Getting FOX's minority share in merchandising rights to the X-Men and FF movies (Marvel controls 100% of comic based merchandise) has no value to a company that's focusing solely on merchandising its MCU characters. Getting a piece of FOX's ad revenue has some value, but if that's all Marvel is getting they would be much better off putting additional Marvel shows into production and keeping it all to themselves.

Under your scenario Marvel adds a competitor in broadcast TV for a meager package that would have been a bad deal in the 1990s let alone 2015. My guess is Marvel turns that down.

If any rights transfers are done as a result of this deal, I would imagine it would more likely be a transfer of a few characters that 20th Century Fox has no need due to the tone the X-Men films have taken but can enrich Marvel's already existing IPs or IPs they intend to build upon like Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel. Still don't expect the Fantastic Four to jump along.

Why wouldn't Marvel ask for the entire FF character family? And why wouldn't FOX trade in their worthless property in exchange for a TV show that could generate tens of millions of dollars annually in streaming rights alone?

Marvel has all the leverage, and I don't see them making another awful Avi Arad era deal. FOX is under time constraints - they have already hired pricey talent and they have to get moving to have the X-Men TV show ready for Fall 2016. Marvel is under no time pressure. If FOX doesn't release the FF contract, let's table the negotiations for a year. It's not like FOX is going to make any more FF movies.

 

[Zarex]

Fox may not be willing to give up the rights just yet or maybe Disney/Marvel don't have any interest in the Fantastic Four film rights. Fox damaged the brand quite heavily and Marvel Studios' film slate is demanding enough as it is.

Meanwhile getting a few characters like the Skrulls, Shi'ar, Silver Surfer, etc. would present great opportunities for Marvel to expand upon their Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel IPs. If they get 100% of the Fantastic Four, good for them, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It's not like 20th Century Fox is in the position that Sony Pictures was in over the Spider-Man IP or in the same position they were in with their struggles.

Why do you suppose FOX is prepared to hold onto the FF rights like grim death? Two of the three FOX FF films have lost money, with the latest a complete fiscal disaster. They reluctantly got a cheap rights grab into cinemas before the reversion date, but do you really think they want to do it again? My guess is that FOX would be relieved to see the FF go.

 

[Infinight888]

I think the ideal situation is this:

1. Fox gets the okay to make an X-Men series, as well as any spin-offs they wish, so long as none are scheduled in the same timeslots as Marvel's shows. Marvel gets a small percentage of the show's revenue.
2. Marvel gets all of the Fantastic Four rights since, let's face it, they would revert to Marvel in a few years anyway.
3. (possibly) Joint custody of the Shi'ar, similar to what they have with Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Getting FOX's minority share in merchandising rights to the X-Men and FF movies (Marvel controls 100% of comic based merchandise) has no value to a company that's focusing solely on merchandising its MCU characters. Getting a piece of FOX's ad revenue has some value, but if that's all Marvel is getting they would be much better off putting additional Marvel shows into production and keeping it all to themselves.

Spider-Man wasn't an MCU character but they swapped out Marvel's gross for Spider-Man films in return for 100% merchandising. The Walt Disney Company's forte is merchandising first and foremost. The biggest reason why there were no toys for Fantastic Four and X-Men: Days of Future Past is because Disney doesn't want to share that merchandising money.

Under your scenario Marvel adds a competitor in broadcast TV for a meager package that would have been a bad deal in the 1990s let alone 2015. My guess is Marvel turns that down.

How is it a bad deal since Marvel can't do anything with television but instead gets far more lucrative merchandising money and a good chunk of revenue?

Why wouldn't Marvel ask for the entire FF character family? And why wouldn't FOX trade in their worthless property in exchange for a TV show that could generate tens of millions of dollars annually in streaming rights alone?

I can ask you the same question, why would Marvel be willing to take in a property that has become very damaged? And why would they take on another property that they don't have room for in their film slate?

Marvel has all the leverage, and I don't see them making another awful Avi Arad era deal. FOX is under time constraints - they have already hired pricey talent and they have to get moving to have the X-Men TV show ready for Fall 2016. Marvel is under no time pressure. If FOX doesn't release the FF contract, let's table the negotiations for a year. It's not like FOX is going to make any more FF movies.

Marvel does not have all the leverage here.

Why do you suppose FOX is prepared to hold onto the FF rights like grim death? Two of the three FOX FF films have lost money, with the latest a complete fiscal disaster. They reluctantly got a cheap rights grab into cinemas before the reversion date, but do you really think they want to do it again? My guess is that FOX would be relieved to see the FF go.

Because Fox has already demonstrated that they are prepared to hold onto the rights like grim death.

 

[Zarex]

Spider-Man wasn't an MCU character but they swapped out Marvel's gross for Spider-Man films in return for 100% merchandising. The Walt Disney Company's forte is merchandising first and foremost. The biggest reason why there were no toys for Fantastic Four and X-Men: Days of Future Past is because Disney doesn't want to share that merchandising money.

Spidey generates over a billion dollars a year in merchandising revenue, more than Batman and Superman combined. The X-Men have never been anywhere near that level. The reason there were no tie in toys for X-Men and Fantastic Four is because Disney doesn't want to enhance the visibility of rival franchises and strengthen FOX's hold on their characters. Also, FFINO is garbage.

Marvel could have easily swapped out the movie characters for their comicbook counterparts and not given FOX a dime. Which Marvel did for a DOFP mobil game and a Sentinel Attack Lego set, both of which were available when DOFP was in theaters.

How is it a bad deal since Marvel can't do anything with television but instead gets far more lucrative merchandising money and a good chunk of revenue?

The merchandising aspect of the proposed deal is worth nothing, and giving up exclusivity to Marvel branded TV, strengthening a competitor's hold on your characters and further crowding the marketplace for superhero television is going to require adequate compensation in return. This deal ain't it.

I can ask you the same question, why would Marvel be willing to take in a property that has become very damaged? And why would they take on another property that they don't have room for in their film slate?

Because the folks at Marvel are arrogant SOBs who can turn a talking tree into last summer's break out character, a previously damaged street level hero into the #1 show on Netflix and Ant-Man into a BO success. Turning the First Family into an A-List property will be a piece of cake.

Marvel does not have all the leverage here.

Agree to disagree!

Because Fox has already demonstrated that they are prepared to hold onto the rights like grim death.

I don't see what Marvel's incentive is to strengthen FOX's hold over the X-Men franchise and putting tens of millions of dollars into their competitor's pockets without getting back the FF character family. When we've all seen their skill at monetizing characters under their control. If I were negotiating on behalf of Marvel and FOX brought that crap sandwich to the table, I'd take a hard pass.