Young Allies

JewishHobbit said:
Gravity's the only thing appealing. Typically I'd be excited for Firestar, but she just doesn't fit in here and deserves to be on better teams. I mean, the scipt might have good reason, but it just feels odd at this point.
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The only thing I don't like is that McKeever doesn't have her as leader. Nomad who has so far proven her to be a bit of a disaster is leading.
 
Harlekin said:
And when has Firestar ever lead?
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She's still the most experienced superhero on the team. I like everyone on the team save Arana and Toro (who is new which is why.), but they all don't hold a candle to Firestar in terms of experience. She should be leading, not Nomad.
 
Eh, I have no problem with Firestar taking a backseat on that front. I imagine if things go haywire, she'll step in.
 
They should've totally brought Namorita back for this. Nomad (Cap), Namorita (Namor), and Firestar (the Human Torch). That would've been a cool core team.
 
I do agree that Firestar is clearly the most experienced of this lot. At least in official 616 canon (which inserted her from SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS in the 80's) she trained with the Hellions before joining the New Warriors for years, and even "graduated" to becoming an Avenger with Justice during the Busiek/Perez era. She apparently has breast cancer as of MARVEL DIVAS, which I am not sure is a good or bad idea yet. She always did have to wear special costumes to prevent her own microwave radiation from harming her, so I suppose it makes some sense.

At any rate, while I do like Nomad, her experience is really nothing compared to Angelica Jones'. It would seem very silly for Firestar to be taking orders from her, or even Gravity.

For the record, the last time a comic said Firestar's age, it was MASKED INTENTIONS, a Feb. 2006 Valentine's Day one shot that claimed she was 19 (and Justice was 20). Given that Marvel says that Steve Rogers was officially dead a year, they should be 20 and 21, respectively. If an age above 20 was given in MARVEL DIVAS for Angelica, I don't know because I didn't read it. At any rate, even at 20, that would also make Angelica likely older than the rest of the Young Allies. Even Gravity was a college freshman when he was empowered, which made him 18. He shouldn't be older than 19 now. Nomad is still in high school, as is Arana and likely the new Toro.

I still hope McKeever cleans up the mess for Gravity's girlfriend, Lauren (I think that was her name). He pines for her in his debut series and then in BEYOND!, they are dating and he even told her he was a superhero. Lauren literally appears at his funeral at the end of BEYOND!, which made his identity as Gravity public. Then when McDuffie moves to FF, he has Gravity get resurrected, and then Watcher seemingly erase the knowledge of his secret identity from the public in exchange for helping the FF and Dr. Strange save Eternity. Of course, after that he was part of the 50 State Initiative, although all those SHIELD files of secret identities were erased when Tony Stark lobotomized himself (and people say DC is the company with complicated continuity). So does this mean Lauren forgot all about him? Does she still think he is dead and buried? Or what? And if Gravity remembers all that but she doesn't, what kind of a kink does that put into their relationship?

McKeever said this series would be mostly solo stories and the characters would team up when they have to. That may make it distinct, but perhaps not sellable in a market where, literally, every launch of a franchise that was not a big name that debuted at $3.99 has died a quick sales death. Not even SPIDER-WOMAN from Bendis & Maleev is spared; rumors are it will "go on hiatus" soon (which is a nice way of saying something Bendis wrote in Mainstream Marvel tanked in sales, but no insider can say they against "Godfather" Bendis; they either would wind up floating in a river, or at DC. Just like David Finch had to fall on his pencil for errors in NEW AVENGERS #2, even ones that were clearly script or dialog ones about powers). Out of the flurry of launches to come out of HEROIC AGE, and most of them insist on being $4 for a #1 issue, I think this one is sadly the most vulnerable to collapse, even more so than ATLAS, the next AGENTS OF ATLAS series. And it is a shame because I actually do like McKeever and figure this will be good work.
 
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Just for the record: Gravity already started dating his girl in the mini itself. They had a fight but got back together in the end.

As to the matter of experience: how experienced was Captain Marvel (Monica Rambeau) when she started leading the Avengers? In the end it's still about being able to lead and not about how much experience someone has in the field. That's the same reason Wolverine has only ever led X-Force, and deferred to others more qualified than him.
 
Harlekin said:
Just for the record: Gravity already started dating his girl in the mini itself. They had a fight but got back together in the end.

As to the matter of experience: how experienced was Captain Marvel (Monica Rambeau) when she started leading the Avengers? In the end it's still about being able to lead and not about how much experience someone has in the field. That's the same reason Wolverine has only ever led X-Force, and deferred to others more qualified than him.
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Right, I forgot that GRAVITY tidbit. Still, Lauren's continuity conundrum remains. It isn't the sort of thing that would take like 6 issues to resolve. Some clever writing in a few lines should cover it. I just like seeing that sort of thing, seeing that care.

Just for the record: before X-Force, Wolverine did briefly lead the X-Men in the 1980's, after Storm asked/forced him to so she could hang with Forge for a while. He often acted as the semi-official "second in command" during Storm's tenure as leader of the X-Men in the 1980's too.

A better example probably would have been when the X-Men of the moment, when Claremont made his first return from the late 90's into 2000-2001, elected Rogue to be their leader, despite Wolverine and even Archangel (a founder) being there. Which is actually fairly ludicrous when you think about it. Especially since Nightcrawler was also there and he'd led Excalibur (briefly).

The point is that Firestar has been around long enough that it seems a bit silly that she should be taking orders from kids she could have babysat for in early NEW WARRIORS issues. And what makes Nomad a leader? Having been Captain America's sidekick for a year of HEROES REBORN? I could argue Gravity has more experience than that. Will this be a Night-Thrasher sort of situation, where Nomad just asserts that she's in command and everyone just goes along with it (which was a little daffy considering Dwayne almost killed Richard Rider to unlock his Nova powers, with no proof that they were back)?

Firestar is one of those odd characters who has been around at over a quarter century yet is still around C-List status and could never be counted on to sell her own comic book, so she has to exist in team books or creator pet projects. I thought her heading to the Avengers with Justice made a lot of sense, and while the idea of the two splitting up isn't that bad in theory, Vance has made out a lot better than she has, storyline wise. It quickly has become easy to forget that Angelica was ever an Avenger. She spent years retired as a super-heroine due to FRONTLINE and her first major bit of action was in MARVEL DIVAS, which no one read (partly due to the horrendous name). It seems a bit silly that Angelica should think she needs advice during a superhero battle from a girl who's still in high school (and gets her rear handed to her by Mad-Dog, a DEFENDERS Z-List villain). That's a bit like Vixen being led around by Stargirl.

Still, it does depend on how McKeever pulls it off. I am not sure if this is the best time to do a "team doesn't assemble for 6 issues" story, considering he may only HAVE 6 issues if sales don't pan out. Still, I do like more NOMAD stuff, and I like that McKeever has returned to GRAVITY. I wonder if he'll pair 'em up? :hehe:
 
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I don't get this at all. Just stick with a group that was working like young avengers. Firestar is a joke she should be somewhere else. I like gravity but this is just piss poor. Put Gravity on young avengers and disband this group.
 
To be fair, Sean McKeever created (co-created) Gravity, so if Marvel was going to task him to write a team book, it certainly makes sense to have him along. Arana isn't doing a whole lot either. I suppose they could be Young Avengers, but Marvel obviously wants to keep that franchise on the back burner until Allen Heinberg returns on the 12th of Never. Frankly we're lucky Dan Slott took interest in two of them for MIGHTY AVENGERS.

I do agree, Firestar really needs a promotion one of these days.
 
I rather like this team, myself. Nomad's a compelling new character with ties to a venerable franchise, Gravity really deserves to be showcased in something, Firestar coming back in any capacity is cool, and Arana's... there. Either way, what's the big deal? I don't see why new characters and teams shouldn't be created out of an overactive sense of respect for existing ones. The Young Avengers still get their one-shots now and then, and the only reason they don't get more is because Allan Heinberg prefers to work in Hollywood and actually make money and Joe Q is too stubborn to just hand the team off to someone else. I'd love a New Warriors series (that actually features New Warriors, I mean), but I'm not gonna begrudge the Young Allies' existence because they're getting a series and the Warriors aren't. :huh:
 
You know, I actually really like the idea of Nomad and Gravity joining the Young Avengers. That would have been really cool.
 
Of course it would have. I mean all the avengers ties was cool at the time but if they got together and started the team up with a couple of young up and comers to shake things up you could restart YA and not be comparing it to the first run you know.
 
I saw that picture, and frankly I think it is a bad move for Arana. I imagine someone in editorial thinks that Arana should dress more like a super-heroine than being in a tee, sweat pants and a fanny pack (only Luke Cage is allowed street clothes as a costume). But, simply dressing Arana in Julia Carpenter's new costume, and swapping a mask for goggles, is not the answer. At the very least, stick to Arana's color scheme of red & white; why is she in black like Carpenter (a look she, and not Parker or Venom, originated for webbed heroes). Considering Arana is quite literally the 5th spider-powered heroine that Marvel has (Jessica Drew, Julia Carpenter, Mattie Frank, and the long gone Charlotte Witter, who was evil, and not counting Madame Web or even Black Widow, the originator for spider-related heroines at Marvel), whose only distinctions are her ethnicity and her mystical power origins, it is a bad idea to have her wearing an outfit that is not distinctly "hers". Some could argue that Jessica Drew having an outfit that couldn't be confused with Spider-Man & Venom's black look helped keep her around. Mattie Frank has a rather uninspiring outfit and she's been on the fringes for years. The tee and fanny pack may not be Avengers attire, but at least I knew it was Arana. Now she looks like Julia's kid sister. It wouldn't even make sense if Julia decided to return from Canada to guide Arana, as Arana already had training and guidance from MS. MARVEL.

If they had to give Arana the Arachne outfit, they at least should have kept it red and white.

Apparently, she has lost her mystical armor, a fact I actually didn't know.
 
i think it would have been much better if they were folded into Avengers Initiative
 
Technically, Arana registered with the SHRA and was partnered with Ms. Marvel has a trainee during and after CIVIL WAR. She received SHIELD training and while she may not be 100% gung ho for that law or how it was enforced initially, she's obeying it. Gravity was also featured in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE as part of the 50 State Initiative. He was stationed to the Heavy Hitters team in Nevada as the leader (and helped fend off the Skrull's infiltration efforts of the Initiative), but when Norman Osborn gained command of the Initiative, he replaced Gravity with Prodigy and shipped Gravity to his home state of Wisconsin, to be part of the Great Lakes Champions (or GLA).

I still wonder if Gravity's girlfriend still thinks he is dead and buried from the end of BEYOND!, or if her memory of that as well as Gravity's identity as a hero (and even their relationship) was erased by the Watcher in gratitude for aiding the Fantastic Four and Dr. Strange to save Eternity. Considering McKeever's played up the aspects of Rikki being in a new but different dimension than her own, he likely should get into that. He did only create Gravity in the first place.

But, technically, Gravity is with the Initiative, or was.
 
my dislike of Marvel teen books comes from the fact that no one truely graduates to big leagues. Sure Avengers Initiative is supposed to train the kids on how to be an avenger but are we really going to see any of them in the big leagues...Justice and Firestar sucessfully graduated but as soon as writers changed back they went to the minior leagues
 
You could argue DC does that too, although to somewhat of a lessor degree as, at least for a while, they fooled readers into thinking characters who'd been around less than 20 years were worth a damn. Marvel basically does the same thing, only without that decade of hope.

It is a vicious cycle. Readers will never embrace new character books as "important" if even Marvel themselves dismiss any struggling new creation as quickly as their audience does. Could other franchises have been boosted if Marvel had been devoted to them as they are to, say, the AGENTS OF ATLAS? Time will tell.

Frankly, I think Marvel always has one teen team too many, at least since 2007. There usually is only room for one or two after the obligatory "New Mutants/Teen X-Men" team. And yes, Firestar isn't really a teenager, but if she isn't going to be in AVENGERS ACADEMY, she may as well be here. Her cancer deal from MARVEL DIVAS will allow quite a few "very special" episodes for her. At least surviving cancer is a better reason to angst than many other heroes.

The Young Avengers had potential, but Marvel wasted it waiting for Heinberg. The New Warriors were dismantled and I don't think that franchise will ever be healthy again. Avengers Academy is basically the real "Teen Avengers" book like the X-Men always had some variation of New Mutants/Generation X/Academy X/Hormone Spandex (I made one up). The RUNAWAYS were never more than a unique and quirky cult hit; not even Joss Whedon could boost sales for long. Throw into this mix YOUNG ALLIES from a writer best known for a terrible run on TEEN TITANS, and I am not smelling commercial success. But I will read it, and probably enjoy it.

Although I'd probably rather almost any hero but Toro. And not even THE Toro, but Toro Lite.
 
This looks good.

I understand these types of books are not everybodies cup of tea.

Not Grim and Gritty enough for that crew, not Manga enough for the Manga fans who just sit in Borders Byrne stealin their fix.

I'll say that despite their boldness to commit to such books, Marvel at least TRIES to give us traditional team books. Stuff like New Warriors, Defenders, etc..

I think the main reason I gravitate to these books is becuase they are team books where stuff usually is allowed to develop with the characters, which doesnt always happen when you gather the big boys together and writers like JMS, Bendis, etc.. just do what they want and any writer who wants to use those characters cant do much with them.

I think it is a good lineup, although missing something (Prodigy would have been nice). I'll check it out.
 
You have a point there; few writers are allowed to really change the "big gun" characters (and even that stuff rarely lasts), but smaller books with B and C list characters can have more growth. The problem is that sometimes that growth doesn't translate into other titles.

Love or hate the last NEW WARRIORS, but Jubilee was actually a major character in that; she'd been recruited by Donyell Taylor and given strength-boosting gauntlets to act as Wondra. Considering she was always agile and later learned martial arts, having super strength wasn't that bad a boost. She was one of the major characters of that book and among the highlights of it. Sadly, the X-Office took her back and abandoned any potential of the idea of "depowered mutant uses technology to be a heroine". I am not saying it was the best idea in the universe; but it was at least a new idea, that could have had new potential. But to many, she'll always just be the Dick Tracy coat wearing, pink visor covered gal she was in the animated X-MEN show.

That was just an example. McKeever's certainly gotten a few cobwebs to dust off of Gravity since the last time he wrote him. And by and large, most seem to have left Firestar out of most of the AVENGERS reunions. Frankly I'd rather have seen Firestar as part of the AVENGERS ACADEMY class than here. Christos Gage has used so many New Warriors as his "Avengers Resistance" that the title was NEW WARRIORS in everything but name. Think about it...Angelica returning to teach full time, finds Vance with his new lover Suzi (who at least for now has lasted longer than most "rebounds"), and either is jealous, or supportive, and maybe Vance feels bad about their split since she has cancer, but Angelica is content with things...kinda writes itself. Instead she'll be the only one of the YOUNG ALLIES who can maybe buy alcohol without being carded. :p

I'm sure McKeever will handle her well. Least I'll read her in this, as I didn't touch MARVEL DIVAS. I have faith in all of them but New Toro, and at the very least McKeever usually writes strong and interesting heroines. It would be interesting if McKeever used some of these tidbits to Firestar's benefit. Maybe she resents being a forgotten Avenger, and forgotten even by Vance (which is out of character really, but Marvel's editors usually don't bother with that sort of trivia). She's that one member of the New Warriors band who never went up to A-Level Mainstream (Nova) or even the mid-card level, but is stuck playing in basements with the next generation of hungry kids. Which either is tragic or gives her some handle on the future, or both. We'll see how it goes.
 
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I think Firestar should have ended up on one of the 99 Avenger team books(exaggeration) Marvel is putting out
 
So everyone should read Young Allies #1. I think I may even like it better than Avengers Academy #1.
 
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