Young Justice Cartoon

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Thus, the only one of the "founding 3" who hasn't had a focus episode yet is Robin, and despite the groans, it is probably inevitable.

Actually, Robin's focus episode is "Drop Zone". It's just harder to notice with everything going around that episode.

 

[Karelia]

Enjoyed "Downtime" more than I expected. Aqualad is pretty cool in this show, IMO. I just now got to watch it tonight, forgot to set it to record friday.

How is this show doing, Rating/View wise?

 

[Dread]

It wasn't a training simulation.

We spent 2 pages on this subject on another board

http://www.rangerboard.com/showthread.php?t=136237&page=28



They're in Gotham and you don't think Batman would at least keep tabs on them?

Gotham 6:17 pm. We even get aerial shots and a zoom in on a warehouse.

-Young Justice is dealing with Clayface and losing. Batman drops in and finishes things

-The kids are teleporting in.

I see. That actually makes things worse. I cannot buy for one instant that these kids, even under the worst leadership in human history, could lose to Clayface. They defeated AMAZO, a threat that took the assembled JLA 4 hours to defeat, IN TEN MINUTES (which, actually, makes the League look incompetent). They man-handled Bane like a chump. How in the world does Clayface defeat Superboy and Miss Martian? How in the world does Aqualad not turn him to sludge with water? How does Robin not electrocute him with some device given that he likely has battled Clayface before? I can buy he was too distracted to use his power in the most obvious way; I can't buy Clayface beating Superboy and Miss Martian, considering Superboy barely listens to orders anyway. Especially when Batman beats Clayface so easily afterward. I actually thought it was beyond lame when Sportsmaster defeated Superboy and Megan, but I digress.

I would imagine the idea of the characters being nearly killed by a real, legitimate villain in a mission would be a huge deal; instead it happens mostly off camera. This is poor execution, or at the very least confusing execution. The scene ends with a sort of fade or dissolve or whatnot back to the YJ HQ, so I assumed it was a DANGER ROOM style training sequence. I didn't feel the weight or danger of the situation because that weight and danger is kept off screen. Maybe this isn't the first show to have a plot like this handled in such a way, but I sort of expect YJ to be a little above the curve.

Then again, keeping it off camera is a good way of avoiding coming up with a way for the kids to have lost to Clayface. Considering they have literally stumbled across far more dangerous enemies and prevailed before now. Unless Aqualad's orders were "curl into a fetal ball and take it", I can't imagine what went wrong.

The sad thing is, "WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN" had an episode like this, and it was called "BREAKDOWN". The plot is that Cyclops is too distracted by his angst over losing Jean to be a proper member of the team, and has to go on some self discovery. The difference? First, the threat the X-Men were fighting is Juggernaut (an established difficult threat), and secondly, that battle is shown for several minutes, so the audience gets a sense of the difficulty. If Clayface was capable of beating a team that spanked AMAZO, at LESS THAN FULL STRENGTH (as Megan and Kaldur were not present for the final battle), then we should have at least seen more of it to get that sense of danger and drama. It is a rare thing indeed when I feel W&TXM handled a plot detail...any plot detail, or any aspect of any plot better than any other show made in the 21st century.

Maybe if the show's writers utilized other heroes' rogues galleries as often as they dip into Batman's well, they could find a stronger threat to have beaten the kids off camera that wouldn't have felt as awkward in such a short time. Remember - Batman is a hero without super powers, so his enemies tend to be ones who can challenge a guy without superpowers. Ergo, ANY hero with ACTUAL super powers has a good chance of beating most of them, save the Joker. A TEAM of superheroes? They might have been better off plucking someone from Superman's or Flash's or even Green Lantern's rogues gallery.

Actually, Robin's focus episode is "Drop Zone". It's just harder to notice with everything going around that episode.

I suppose you are right. But, as you said, there was so much happening that it was easy to forget that was a Robin centric episode. You had Bane asserting his dominance, and Kaldur rising into an established leader.

It is something, I guess, that Kaldur is really the first YJ member whose focus episode was done in a way in which he was kept apart from the rest of the cast for most of the episode, and truly on his own. I don't think that was a bad thing, given how new he is.

Enjoyed "Downtime" more than I expected. Aqualad is pretty cool in this show, IMO. I just now got to watch it tonight, forgot to set it to record friday.

How is this show doing, Rating/View wise?

I don't know, but probably well. The only comic show CN cut before a season was aired was "FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES", which was a Marvel show (as in, a competitor). I imagine YJ will safely air all 26 episodes of Season 1, at least.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

To be fair, though, we don't know that Clayface was the ONLY villain they fought. Maybe they were worn down from fighting an army of them, and Clayface was last one standing, ready to give the final blow.

 

[SpideyForPrez]

How come some of the Atlanteans were mermaids and most of them not? Is it an evolution or magic thing for Atlantis in the DCU?

 

[carrrnuttt]

I see. That actually makes things worse. I cannot buy for one instant that these kids, even under the worst leadership in human history, could lose to Clayface. They defeated AMAZO, a threat that took the assembled JLA 4 hours to defeat, IN TEN MINUTES (which, actually, makes the League look incompetent). They man-handled Bane like a chump. How in the world does Clayface defeat Superboy and Miss Martian? How in the world does Aqualad not turn him to sludge with water? How does Robin not electrocute him with some device given that he likely has battled Clayface before? I can buy he was too distracted to use his power in the most obvious way; I can't buy Clayface beating Superboy and Miss Martian, considering Superboy barely listens to orders anyway. Especially when Batman beats Clayface so easily afterward. I actually thought it was beyond lame when Sportsmaster defeated Superboy and Megan, but I digress.

As Batman implied, the team did just fine. It was their leader that failed them. It's possible, since they'd be on their telepathic communication thing, that if Kal was off because his mind wasn't on the mission, he might have made a team member or two make mis-timed missteps that "domino'ed" onto the rest of the team.

Then again, I find it hard to believe that Robin, who would have experience fighting Clayface would be defeated, or that Conner would be knocked out.

 

[Hush]

I can buy a bunch of unexperienced heroes losing to clayface, I mean the guy has taken down Batman numerous times and if he got the drop on them I can totally see them getting there ass kicked.

 

[Stringer]

Thing is, we don't know the circumstances of the fight. When the show starts they're all beaten, that's all we know. They may have been arguing the whole time and completely caught off guard by Clayface. The point is, they should have been able to handle Clayface and didn't.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Two things to note about this Clayface:

-He seemed more like a mindless monster

-Electricity can harm it unlike DCAU's Clayface "Feat of Clay part 2"

 

[Lencho01]

I didn't get a mindless monster vibe from him.

 

[Nathan]

He didn't even have half a minute of screen time. And since he was able to actually chuckle, I doubt he was mindless.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I was fine with them not being able to beat Clayface. Knowing them, he probably got hte drop on them. And just because they beat Amazo doesnt make them anything special. They got lucky. It would be like saying they should be able to beat every enemy they encounter from now on (who isnt Darkseid) and dont need any saving at all.

 

[GhostPoet]

To be fair, though, we don't know that Clayface was the ONLY villain they fought. Maybe they were worn down from fighting an army of them, and Clayface was last one standing, ready to give the final blow.

That and it was probably a surprise attack. the team still has trouble working together when taken by surprise.

 

[akfj]

Enjoyed "Downtime" more than I expected. Aqualad is pretty cool in this show, IMO. I just now got to watch it tonight, forgot to set it to record friday.

How is this show doing, Rating/View wise?

As of February, very well.

The new animated series Young Justice, airing Fridays at 7pm (ET) on Cartoon Network, continues to pull in consistently impressive ratings.
Cartoon Network's latest addition to its Friday night line-up is drawing in solid ratings according to data released by Nielsen Media Research and Turner Broadcasting System. Since its debut in November 2010, and the regular airings that started in January 2011, Young Justice has been pulling in consistent and solid numbers. The official press details can be found below.

For the second week of February 2011, Cartoon Network earned solid delivery gains vs. the same week last year among kids 9-14. Compared to the 2010 time period, average early evening prime time kids 9-14 delivery (378,000) by 7%.

Friday night’s animated action-adventure programming (7-9 p.m.) propelled Cartoon Network to the #1 destination on all television among boys 9-14, showing double and triple-digit delivery increases with all key kids and boys demos: overall kids 6-11 delivery (619,000) grew by 29%, kids 2-11 delivery (863,000) grew by 10%, kids 9-14 delivery (585,000) grew by 81%, boys 6-11 delivery (526,000) grew by 46%, boys 2-11 delivery (669,000) grew by 29% and boys 9-14 delivery (507,000) grew by 103%.

• Young Justice (7 p.m.)—kids 6-11 delivery (629,000) grew by 17%, kids 2-11 delivery (910,000) grew by 4%, kids 9-14 delivery (576,000) grew by 71%.

• Ben 10: Ultimate Alien (7:30 p.m.)—kids 6-11 delivery (660,000) grew by 44%, kids 2-11 delivery (959,000) grew by 24%, kids 9-14 delivery (596,000) grew by106%.

• Generator Rex (8 p.m.)—kids 9-14 delivery (499,000) grew by 58%, boys 9-14 delivery (427,000) grew by 71%.

• Star Wars: The Clone Wars (8:30 p.m.)—kids 6-11 delivery (708,000) grew by 58%, kids 9-14 delivery (668,000) grew by 89%, boys 6-11 delivery (596,000) grew by 63%, boys 9-14 delivery (593,000) grew by 99%

Article link: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=970

 

[Zant]

The sad thing is, "WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN" had an episode like this, and it was called "BREAKDOWN". The plot is that Cyclops is too distracted by his angst over losing Jean to be a proper member of the team, and has to go on some self discovery. The difference? First, the threat the X-Men were fighting is Juggernaut (an established difficult threat), and secondly, that battle is shown for several minutes, so the audience gets a sense of the difficulty. If Clayface was capable of beating a team that spanked AMAZO, at LESS THAN FULL STRENGTH (as Megan and Kaldur were not present for the final battle), then we should have at least seen more of it to get that sense of danger and drama. It is a rare thing indeed when I feel W&TXM handled a plot detail...any plot detail, or any aspect of any plot better than any other show made in the 21st century[/QUOTE]

Lol Dread the lack of Colossus on WATXM still gets to you huh.Btw it looks like he not in the upcoming x men anime so I guess you are going to hate on that show too

 

[Dread]

To be fair, though, we don't know that Clayface was the ONLY villain they fought. Maybe they were worn down from fighting an army of them, and Clayface was last one standing, ready to give the final blow.

We don't know because it was kept off camera, likely so the writers wouldn't have to come up with it. That or there was only so much airtime and it was decided that cutting down or eliminating any of the other scenes wasn't doable, so they decided to just cut that bit short. Admittedly, it isn't a major deal, but it is jarring. If they were going to gyp out on the fight, they literally could have stuck in any Batman villain. If they don't have to bother convincing the audience how the baddie had defeated the team, they may as well put in Riddler or the Terrible Trio or a guy in a ski mask or something. What? Sportsmaster is just a guy in a hockey mask, and he can drop two of them. Bane, on the other hand, can't even lay a hand on any of them.

As Batman implied, the team did just fine. It was their leader that failed them. It's possible, since they'd be on their telepathic communication thing, that if Kal was off because his mind wasn't on the mission, he might have made a team member or two make mis-timed missteps that "domino'ed" onto the rest of the team.

Then again, I find it hard to believe that Robin, who would have experience fighting Clayface would be defeated, or that Conner would be knocked out.

Exactly. Even if Kaldur was having an off day, it seemed horribly unlikely that Clayface could have defeated ALL of them so easily. It was kept off camera likely because the show's writers and editors wanted to focus on more vital stuff, but I do think some extra time to flesh out exactly what went wrong would have worked better. It makes it come off as they couldn't figure it out either, so they did it the lazy way and kept it off camera. I mean, the concept of the ENTIRE teaming being beaten and needing Batman to literally intervene and save their lives should have been a major, MAJOR deal. Instead, it was sort of brushed off because it was over so quickly. The fact that at least a quarter of the audience seemed to believe it was a training exercise shows that something wasn't handled perfectly.

I can buy a bunch of unexperienced heroes losing to clayface, I mean the guy has taken down Batman numerous times and if he got the drop on them I can totally see them getting there ass kicked.

Batman beat him with a stun-gun. Robin likely has a version of that instrument.

This is why we needed to see more of that sequence. In "BREAKDOWN" in "WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN", we actually SEE the X-Men fighting Juggernaut for a least a couple of minutes before things end and get to where they are going with Cyclops' mental issues. Juggernaut is also a sufficiently challenging threat.

Even in a worse episode of W&TXM, like "CODE OF CONDUCT", in which the audience has to accept a team of random ninja with no super powers ambushing and defeating the entire X-Men (save for Wolverine and Rogue), the episode actually lets us SEE IT, even if it is total baloney. I would have rather seen it.

Thing is, we don't know the circumstances of the fight. When the show starts they're all beaten, that's all we know. They may have been arguing the whole time and completely caught off guard by Clayface. The point is, they should have been able to handle Clayface and didn't.

Which is why more of the fight needed to be shown. This should have been a huge, huge deal. The kids lost and needed Batman to save them. That should have been a potential confidence shattering event, and instead it was treated with no more significance than missing a 3 pt shot in a close game. Maybe the episode was too "busy" to focus on that, but I think it could have been handled better. You can't treat every mission as deadly serious because the stakes are so high and them dismiss that opening. Are Robin and Kid-Flash whining about being "babysat" NOW? There was a load of potential here and I think in the zeal to properly showcase Kaldur's world, a damn lot of material was shucked into the void.

Two things to note about this Clayface:

-He seemed more like a mindless monster

-Electricity can harm it unlike DCAU's Clayface "Feat of Clay part 2"

And in theory, so could water, the very element Kaldur controls. Just how "out of the game" was he? It's like Superman losing to an ice monster because he was too distracted to use heat-vision.

I was fine with them not being able to beat Clayface. Knowing them, he probably got hte drop on them. And just because they beat Amazo doesnt make them anything special. They got lucky. It would be like saying they should be able to beat every enemy they encounter from now on (who isnt Darkseid) and dont need any saving at all.

In fairness, the one advantage that the kids had on AMAZO over their elders was that Dr. Ivo was literally in the same room and could be exploited to distract AMAZO (which was exactly how they defeated him). One could argue if the JLA had such an advantage they would have exploited it, too. But the point stands.

If these are kids just getting lucky, than the defeat by Clayface is MORE of a big deal, that was swept aside. It might have shut up the kids who whine about their elder heroes "babysitting" them - well, Robin, Kid-Flash, would you rather be dead or are you happy Batman "babysits" you? Maybe Superboy might have learned some humility. Maybe Kid-Flash would be motivated to train better. Instead, it was all on Kaldur without us ever seeing what went wrong, and I think that was a bit of a cheat. I think there was some fathomable way to show more of the fight and still deal with the ramifications properly while still doing all the awesome stuff in Atlantis.

I mean, it wasn't just the editing that confused people as to whether it was a training sequence or not; it was how little effect it had on the team. The opening scene didn't last long enough to have weight or a sense of danger, and what are the rest of the team doing? Superboy watches a fuzzy TV and maybe makes out with Megan, who messes up a recipe. Wally goes to a birthday party. Artemis argues with her mom about switching schools. Where's the "omigod, we almost died out there?" reaction? Where's the "maybe it is good we have Batman or Red Tornado to have our back", or why it isn't, reaction? Nothing. It's over and done with. Well, if was going to be that little of a big deal, then it very well should have been a training exercise. The episode would have literally been in no way different.

If the show itself refuses to take a mission seriously and deal with the ramifications, why should I do it for them?

No, the opening was the way it was because it fit into the formula, and I think that is the show's biggest flaw. For a production team that made their fame by bucking the rules, "YOUNG JUSTICE" sticks to too many of them. Greg Weisman has stated a few times that the show came together very "last minute" by some TV standards, and I think some of the scripts are showing some rush. Not that they're bad; they just don't seem to have that "effortless home run" quality that TSSM had. I sense more "going through the motions" with YJ, or at least I think I do. The fact that Weisman and Company can go through the motions and play every TV Trope there is dead straight and STILL average a third of an opening season that averages a B+/A- grade is a testament to their ability to execute and to write characters well, and their imagination with their world. I was probably just expecting an average grade of A/A+ by now, and didn't expect to miss "AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES" quite as much.

 

[Dread]

((double post))

 

[Dread]

Lol Dread the lack of Colossus on WATXM still gets to you huh.Btw it looks like he not in the upcoming x men anime so I guess you are going to hate on that show too

I didn't mention Colossus and the lack of him wasn't the biggest problem of W&TXM. It lacked sufficient characterization, it was often unfocused or had focus in too many directions, and the execution of the ideas and plots it presented was often average at best. It was chock full of the things that the production team couldn't do on Kid's WB with X-MEN EVOLUTION that they crammed in everything but "goodness". I only brought it up because I thought "BREAKDOWN" had a similar plot and the show handled its opening act in a better way. The Juggernaut is clearly a threat who can challenge the X-Men if everyone isn't at their A-Game; no question. We also get to SEE Juggernaut smacking everyone around. Even in a worse episode like "CODE OF CONDUCT", in which the X-Men all lose to random ninja, we at least get to SEE it. It's total baloney, but we get to see it, and can judge it on those terms.

This episode took the easy way out. It made the opening scene too short to sufficiently judge, and then had it only have weight for one character when it should have effected the entire cast. I think that, in addition to the edit between scenes, is why 25% of the audience thought it was a training sequence. Why isn't everyone reacting to the fact that they almost died? That having a "babysitter" saved their lives? That they have more to learn? That their job is serious and there's no room for error? That they lost to a guy who could be beaten with a bucket of water and a stun gun? Instead, it was treated as no more important as a lost game of touch football against Jimmy Olson and the Newsboy Legion. Everyone else was just back to enjoying their night.

Clayface is a challenge to Batman? Of course he is - Batman is a lone hero without super powers. A portly midget with an umbrella that has a knife in it is a challenge for him. I don't see how Clayface could beat Superboy, or Megan, or even a lovesick Kaldur quite frankly.

The annoying thing is that literally everything after the opening minutes is awesome. It just gets on me that it had to be set up by a sequence that falls apart with any sort of analysis, that what could have been an A+ episode is reduced to A- because of a sloppy start. I sense more "going through the motions" elements with this show than I did with TSSM, and while YJ is still the best damn DC cartoon WB has gotten produced in years, that merely means it is more exceptional than "THE BATMAN", "LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES" and "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD". At least with the latter, the tongue is so firmly in cheek that almost any flaw is forgivable or easy to dismiss.

I think if there was no time to set up the threat or deal with the aftermath for more than one character, it should have been a training exercise. Not one line of dialogue would have differed. You telling me Batman isn't such a hard-ass he'd NOT consider benching Kaldur after spectacularly botching an intense training simulation? He usually considers someone a moron if they make the mistake of cracking a smile.

An alternative villain from another rogues gallery could have also sufficed. Off the top of my head, Silver Banshee probably could have served the role better, especially since Robin wouldn't have had experience with her, and she wasn't weak to Kaldur's attack.

 

[TerryMcGinnis]

^
Yep, that bit with Clayface does require some massive suspension of disbelief for me to swallow. Even the Genomorphs were above and beyond Clayface's power level, let alone Amazo.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Clayface is a challenge to Batman? Of course he is - Batman is a lone hero without super powers. A portly midget with an umbrella that has a knife in it is a challenge for him. I don't see how Clayface could beat Superboy, or Megan, or even a lovesick Kaldur quite frankly.

If those 3 dont think about how to use their pwoers properly then he would be a challenge for them. Espically since they never faced him before. If you just try to use brute streangth against Clayface (which SB probably did) then I dont think it would work that well since he is jsut made up of clay or whatever and one punch is not goign to affect him in his A game, Megan probably didnt even think of trying to pull him apart with her TK and Kaldur clearly didnt think about using electricity against him.

 

[Drz]

 

[TheCorpulent1]

God, that is fantastically terrible.

 

[Savage]

The majority of Atlanteans, sure. But Aquaman could still talk to fish, Mera could still manipulate water, Aqualad would still have his Waterbearers and electric power, and Tula could probably be given some unique power of her own. Beats every Atlantean and their mother being able to go a few rounds with Dr. Fate.

I actually like that aspect. It separates Atlantis from the typical depictions such as Marvel's. It's closer to Asgard in that magic and technology are one and the same and that's very cool to me. I love the idea.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They're not, though. There's a separate magic academy and science department, as shown in the episode.

 

[Savage]

Well that's the impression I got from the amount of magic witnessed in this ep. Even you said too many people were using magic. Seemed right on par with Asgard in that not every Asgardian is some kind of sorcerer but that it's ingrained in their society enough.

Idunno. I guess I just thought "Finally. A difference between the two universes Atlantis."