Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League (The Snyder Cut Edition)

[Micromind]

And James Wan....isn't he furious at them for the whole 'straight to streaming' situation? He has a new movie out soon and won't get huge profits because of that decision

Pandemic isn't over, yet. No movie from any Studio is going to earn huge profit. BTW, Wan has enough reasons to be unhappy with WB, they have cancelled his Swamp Thing series and then they cancelled his The Trench movie.

 

[souperman]

edit


SW does say he found it hidden on a primitive planet...

Prob filmmakers way to make the point clear to us why Earth is so important but is a plot hole...

 

[harlequinade]

Pandemic isn't over, yet. No movie from any Studio is going to earn huge profit. BTW, Wan has enough reasons to be unhappy with WB, they have cancelled his Swamp Thing series and then they cancelled his The Trench movie.

I mean sure, but this whole 'we are streaming our ****!' move from WB alienated probably every single big director working for them

 

[Primal Slayer]

There's a difference to bring her back for a moment (though it's still gross) and her still being the female lead. Personally I saw the first one several times in cinemas and hyped it up so much to others. If the sequel includes that woman? No thanks.

"Boring" is the least of WW1984's issues in the eyes of many

I am sure the general audience will be fine with her. If people have watched this multiple times with her adding to the film, if they like A2, they'll probably do the same.

I mean sure, but this whole 'we are streaming our ****!' move from WB alienated probably every single big director working for them

They never said that they stream every.single.movie. going forward. Patty wasnt a fan and you can bet that she likely made sure that WW3 would be theater first as im sure a lot of directors will.

 

[Micromind]

I mean sure, but this whole 'we are streaming our ****!' move from WB alienated probably every single big director working for them

Same day and date release was a stupid, gimmicky decision, at least they should have waited two weeks before releasing the movies on HBO Max, that would have given the Theaters some opportunity (though at the time when WW84 was released, only 10% of total theaters in US were open) to earn something.

 

[Manny Moo]

You do when you want to move on from something. WB is past Snyder leading the way of DC characters.

Wan will do just fine with Amber Heard just as Zack BROUGHT BACK Amber to shoot additional scenes. Im sure Patty will do just fine with WW as well, people think it was boring but no where near what BvS did to the DC franchise.

To each their own and all but in my view, and many others, BVS Ultimate Edition, is a far better movie than almost all the other DC movies so far. I get that some didnt enjoy it, I respect that. I get that its not everyone's tastes, but making a sweeping claim that it did something to the franchise just cos it wasn't for everyone is a bit much.

The problem is a large section of the fan base, and now the general public after ZSJL, want to see how this story develops. It reeks of the same mistakes WB have been making for years where they believe they know best. After what happened with the theatrical cut, its clear this isnt always the case. If they abandon the Snyder Verse, it could backfire hugely and could taint all the future projects they are so excited about. Look at the reactions to JJ's reboot plans.

 

[dhandler01]

I get your point but...
But it is implied that SW isn't exactly on DS favored being list. He has been shunned and outcast. He can't be trusted. Why would DS tell SW where the ALE is so he could go get it and take DS place on the throne?
Maybe DS kept the existence of and location of the ALE to himself. After all it is the key to controlling the universe.

Movies as in real life, if it exists, things don't make sense unless you force them too...

That doesn't fly. First of all Steppenwolf knows of the defiance story so he knows the importance of Earth. Whether DS tells him or not Grumpy Steppy would have at least the basics. The second dormant motherboxes startted popping up it should have been clue #1 for everyone who is part of Darkseid's crew. Plus, the second Grumpy Steppy saw the Amazons that should have been enough and the first report to Desaad should have tipped the hand to the Apokalips Crew even if Grumpy Steppy didn't know the story. (which he did because he talks about it)

It isnt that big of a deal, but there is no way you can honestly say this isnt a plothold. Honestly I would bet originally there was supposed to be a scene where Darkseid talks to Desaad after the first box is found and talks about how this is the place but dont tell Steppy because he cant be trusted. It obviously was never filmed so it just becomes a plothole.

 

[Primal Slayer]

To each their own and all but in my view, and many others, BVS Ultimate Edition, is a far better movie than almost all the other DC movies so far. I get that some didnt enjoy it, I respect that. I get that its not everyone's tastes, but making a sweeping claim that it did something to the franchise just cos it wasn't for everyone is a bit much.

Except it did. WB mandated a lighter, brighter DCU after the poor reception of the film. Its why they had Whedon do what he did to JL and why they brought on handlers while Zack was there to ensure it wasnt another BvS. It essentially put Cavills Superman in the grave along with the character himself. JL just put the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Manny Moo]

Except it did. WB mandated a lighter, brighter DCU after the poor reception of the film. Its why they had Whedon do what he did to JL and why they brought on handlers while Zack was there to ensure it wasnt another BvS. It essentially put Cavills Superman in the grave along with the character himself. JL just put the final nail in the coffin.

Isn't it possible that those decisions say more about the executive priorities at WB than Snyder or the movie. Perhaps having the wrong set of targets and expectations vis-a-vis "the try hard catch up" with Marvel model. I mean, personally I dont think Whedon had to do 90% of the things he did in JL 2017. Some of the decisions are downright baffling when you compare what was filmed and then what was reshot and seems driven by ego or at least a very misguided perception of what people wanted from DC. So its difficult to trust that these people can deliver on their promises if they abandon the Snyderverse. At least that's my perspective. But lets agree to disagree

 

[dhandler01]

Supporting HBO max who made this movie possible is the least fans should do. They will look at churn rates, so its the smart thing to do as well. Nobody's gonna subscribe forever if there's no good content, and there is a lot of good content at HBO Max. I think its fair if people unsubscribe after a couple of months if nothing gets announced though.

Most likely if they stay a few months they won't cancel...that gets proven a lot with these streaming services.

That said if the #SnyderCut fans cancel en masse they will guarantee there is no restoration because it will prove that ZS has little to no appeal outside of his fans who are a rather fickle group who can't be trusted to support anything that isnt exactly what they want. If they want to counter their reputation then acts of goodwill are needed. HBO Max just gave them a gift...

And if they are hashtag bombing other trailers and announcements as is being suggested they are doing more harm than good.

 

[souperman]

That doesn't fly. First of all Steppenwolf knows of the defiance story so he knows the importance of Earth. Whether DS tells him or not Grumpy Steppy would have at least the basics. The second dormant motherboxes startted popping up it should have been clue #1 for everyone who is part of Darkseid's crew. Plus, the second Grumpy Steppy saw the Amazons that should have been enough and the first report to Desaad should have tipped the hand to the Apokalips Crew even if Grumpy Steppy didn't know the story. (which he did because he talks about it)

It isnt that big of a deal, but there is no way you can honestly say this isnt a plothold. Honestly I would bet originally there was supposed to be a scene where Darkseid talks to Desaad after the first box is found and talks about how this is the place but dont tell Steppy because he cant be trusted. It obviously was never filmed so it just becomes a plothole.

Only watched once and yes... I edited because of SW speech to Desade


SW does say he found it hidden on a primitive planet...

Prob filmmakers way to make the point clear to us why Earth is so important but is a plot hole..

I am sure there is some rational the writers used that made sense to them.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Isn't it possible that those decisions say more about the executive priorities at WB than Snyder or the movie. Perhaps having the wrong set of targets and expectations vis-a-vis "the try hard catch up" with Marvel model. I mean, personally I dont think Whedon had to do 90% of the things he did in JL 2017. Some of the decisions are downright baffling when you compare what was filmed and then what was reshot and seems driven by ego or at least a very misguided perception of what people wanted from DC. So its difficult to trust that these people can deliver on their promises if they abandon the Snyderverse. At least that's my perspective. But lets agree to disagree

When they give you their 2 biggest characters they will come with expectations. They expected at least $1billion and of course they wanted good/decent reviews. The film ended being top heavy with no decent legs, getting 29% RT/44% metacritic. It didn't connect with the general audience.

 

[dhandler01]

I mean sure, but this whole 'we are streaming our ****!' move from WB alienated probably every single big director working for them

And most of them will come back. Most likely only Nolan won't and honestly I lost respect for him over his whining anyways.

And I see nothing about Trench being cancelled officially. Is this because of the investors presentation because that means very little.

 

[dhandler01]

Only watched once and yes... I edited because of SW speech to Desade


SW does say he found it hidden on a primitive planet...

Prob filmmakers way to make the point clear to us why Earth is so important but is a plot hole..

I am sure there is some rational the writers used that made sense to them.

Yeah like I said it doesnt much matter. I would guess for most people they wouldnt even notice but since we tend to care more...

 

[Spider-Fan]

Oh my God, the repetitive arguments

Snyder is not owed more movies. I agree Anti-Snyder side. WB has no obligation to let him finish his story. But the movie just came out guys. All we have is an interview likely taken before the weekend was over where they said this is it, which is what has been the narrative up to this point. Nothing really has changed. Again, the market will decide if they elect to let Zack do more, but that will take time. Everyone needs to stop with the absolutes. We know nothing at this stage. We don't even have a statement about how well it is doing by the company.

Let it play out guys. If you want more, just watch the movie a lot, buy merchandise, and get other people to watch it and spread the word.. All you can do. In the end, the market will decide.

 

[souperman]

Yeah like I said it doesnt much matter. I would guess for most people they wouldnt even notice but since we tend to care more...

As many have said, plot holes should be filled in the writing. Creativity>laziness ; )

I am sure there is or were reasons and explanations for everything. But sometimes the reasons are lost or forgotten during production... like the location of the MBs and ALE... and your keys...

 

[souperman]

Oh my God, the repetitive arguments

Snyder is not owed more movies. I agree Anti-Snyder side. WB has no obligation to let him finish his story. But the movie just came out guys. All we have is an interview likely taken before the weekend was over where they said this is it, which is what has been the narrative up to this point. Nothing really has changed. Again, the market will decide if they elect to let Zack do more, but that will take time. Everyone needs to stop with the absolutes. We know nothing at this stage. We don't even have a statement about how well it is doing by the company.

Let it play out guys. If you want more, just watch the movie a lot, buy merchandise, and get other people to watch it and spread the word.. All you can do.

WB is looking for the Anti-Snyder-Equation...

 

[Legendver2]

Very beautiful article, must read.

You know, if Ray Fisher wasn't casted as Cyborg, he'd actually make a pretty good Val Zod. Calvin Ellis would probably need someone a bit older, since if they're following the comics, he's supposed to be the freaking president

Oh my God, the repetitive arguments

Snyder is not owed more movies. I agree Anti-Snyder side. WB has no obligation to let him finish his story. But the movie just came out guys. All we have is an interview likely taken before the weekend was over where they said this is it, which is what has been the narrative up to this point. Nothing really has changed. Again, the market will decide if they elect to let Zack do more, but that will take time. Everyone needs to stop with the absolutes. We know nothing at this stage. We don't even have a statement about how well it is doing by the company.

Let it play out guys. If you want more, just watch the movie a lot, buy merchandise, and get other people to watch it and spread the word.. All you can do.

It's still not a smart business move considering they already see the hype of this building up pre-release. Why not just open ended answers i.e. we'll have to look at the numbers first, etc, etc. WB in the span of a year managed to piss off a bunch of directors, a passionate fandom, and killed their own hype train for an anticipated film pre and post release. It's unreal how incompetent they all are.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You know, if Ray Fisher wasn't casted as Cyborg, he'd actually make a pretty good Val Zod. Calvin Ellis would probably need someone a bit older, since if they're following the comics, he's supposed to be the freaking president

It's still not a smart business move considering they already see the hype of this building up pre-release. Why not just open ended answers i.e. we'll have to look at the numbers first, etc, etc. WB in the span of a year managed to piss off a bunch of directors, a passionate fandom, and killed their own hype train for an anticipated film pre and post release. It's unreal how incompetent they all are.

It is what it is. Maybe they just had low expectations for how it would perform, who knows? But regardless, if this movie does well enough, I think eventually WarnerMedia will bend the knee. But freaking out about her comments or alternately telling people there is no hope ultimately does neither side any good. The movie is out. It is a product. Now it is up to the product to sell itself to the people with wallets for more. All we can do is wait, and if so inclined support the movie. Like any movie in the history of ever.

 

[Longshot777]

edit


SW does say he found it hidden on a primitive planet...

Prob filmmakers way to make the point clear to us why Earth is so important but is a plot hole...

I have to rewatch again BUT does it say those 3 Mother Boxes are THE ONLY BOXES in the Universe??

Or does it take 3 Mother Boxes PER PLANET?

Because that plot hole could be close by having numerous Mother Boxes laying dormant on thousands of planets for numerous reasons.

So when Steppenwolf found one, Darkseid couldn’t care less until Steppenwolf told Desaad it’s the actual planet Darkseid has been looking for.

 

[idiot09]

Great thread.

 

[souperman]

I have to rewatch again BUT does it say those 3 Mother Boxes are THE ONLY BOXES in the Universe??

Or does it take 3 Mother Boxes PER PLANET?

Because that plot hole could be close by having numerous Mother Boxes laying dormant on thousands of planets for numerous reasons.

So when Steppenwolf found one, Darkseid couldn’t care less until Steppenwolf told Desaad it’s the actual planet Darkseid has been looking for.

I don't think it does specify in the film.

I don't know the CB history of the MBs but your thought makes sense...

Mother Box

 

[idiot09]

It is what it is. Maybe they just had low expectations for how it would perform, who knows?

Agree with whatever your saying 100%, but yeah, the interview took place on sunday.

 

[Legendver2]

Great thread.

The comments are cancer though

 

[BatLobster]

So...a couple of things.

I am glad this exists for the novelty alone. It is absolutely fascinating to see a clearcut difference between what a reactionary studio wanted vs. what the director originally intended. It's a better, more cohesive movie that feels way more connected to what came before. Steppenwolf's role in the movie is infinitely better. I enjoyed it a lot more than the theatrical cut. With that out of the way...

...I still don't find it to be a good movie. It's juggling way too much, even for 4 hours. Yes, there's more room for the character arcs to breathe, but there is still some stuff that just doesn't flow.

We go from an emotional beat with Barry's dad in prison and why he wants to get into criminal justice, to moments later he's dropping everything to join Bruce "cause he needs friends", and is quipping about snacks and seeing the bat signal. I'm sorry the narrative flow there was non existent. The stuff with his dad didn't add anything to the movie.

The Martian Manhunter thing also added nothing, except undercut a nice emotional scene between Lois and Martha. And tried to set up future movies that likely aren't going to happen.

The entire epilogue could be cut. The movie spends a half hour trying to undo the hopeful feeling that the return of Superman and the unification of the JL was building to. And after 4 hours, I still feel like Superman is basically a non-character in this trilogy. We did nothing to further his growth. It's just...."he's resurrected, Jesus metaphor complete!" What did he LEARN? Why do we care?

It's all made worse when you find out what Snyder was really planning with the post-apocalyptic future, and how it all comes down to a really dumb love triangle with Bruce and Lois. Yeah, let's give Bruce a redemptive arc where he learns to see Superman's humanity and rediscovers his own...only to reveal that he was having an affair with love of Clark's life while he was in the ground, partially because of Bruce's actions. WTF. Not to mention how terrible that makes Lois seem in the process. THAT was the master plan? People actually want more of that?

Oh no, I'm good from here thank you very much. Zack, you can frame a hell of a shot. Those Flash sequences are stunning and beautiful! I am genuinely happy for you and your fans that you got to make your movie and share it with the world as you intended. You sure know how to photograph superheroes and make them look E-P-I-C. But for the love of Zod, this should not have been the guy given creative control to chart this entire universe. That is even more clear now. This "vision" was truly a nightmare.