The Flash ZOOM! (Possible season 2 spoilers)

[DigificWriter]

The simplest explanation for all of this is, ironically, multiple doppelgangers from multiple Earths.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Bare repeating again.......

The man in the mask is Jay-2 held captive by Zoom. There is no Jay-1 as of yet...he has not been identified as of, because Caitlin does not recognize the real Jay-1 as being the Jay Garrett she thinks she knows from Earth-2.

Now follow me on this....the guy "WE" know as Jay-2 is really Zoloman-2 who is really Zoom; whom took Velocity-6 & split into two separate beings....one with Speed, the other who has lost his. Zoloman-2 is pretending to be Jay-2(whom is the man in the mask, a different looking person/actor when it is finally revealed). Zoloman -1 is Zoom's doppelganger and the brunt of a made up story of him being Earth-1 Jay Garrick, name changed by adoption, to the Zolomans, to throw Caitlin off track(who has been looking into speedless Zoloman's, aka Jay-2, DNA whom had no sign of the speedforce, because Zoom got all of it, in the split). Zoloman-1 is just a regular gut like Barry Allen-2 is.

This is the reason Caitlin did not recognize Jay Garrick-1, who is a different person/actor when she tried to find Jay's doppelganger under the name Jay Garrick. Also the reason why Zoom snatched Jay-2, aka speedless Zoloman-2, his other half, back into the portal at the end of the episode.

We have yet to see the face of the real Jay Garrick 1&2.

 

[Lilbaz]

That's possible, but if we're going that route I'd probably lean more towards the clone theory.

So the Hunter Zolomon we saw on E1 would indeed be Zoom. The "real" Jay Garrick is the one in the mask. The Jay that Zoom killed was simply a clone made by Zoom, which would explain why his cells are deteriorating and why he has no powers. I'd like to think we'd get something similar to the Roy Harper/Roy Harper clone thing that went on in YJ where the clone (Jay) begins to believe he is the real Jay hence why he begins to help Barry and company in contrast to what he was originally instructed to do by Zoom.

I'm pretty sure it's narrowed down to 2 plausible outcomes at this point. Twins or clone. I don't think another Earth will have any part to play in this.

But then how was zoom on e2 fighting garrick when the breach opened? Unless that was a total lie (but wouldn't wells have said something?) or can zoom cross without a breach? Which means he could be from e3 or anywhere.

 

[DigificWriter]

There's a massive contradiction in two sets of comments from Andrew Kreisberg concerning the reveal that happened in last night's episode.

In one set of comments, published by Entertainment Weekly, Kreisberg says that Zoom is both Hunter Zolomon AND the Jay Garrick we've come to know since Episode 2 and has been playing Team Flash from the get-go, but in the second set of comments, posted by TV Line and delivered via direct e-mail correspondence with them, Kreisberg says that the things that the Jay we've come to know since Episode 2 told Team Flash were the truth, albeit not the ENTIRE truth.

Both of these sets of comments can't be accurate, because they cancel each other out, and because they're totally contradicted by the physical facts of the matter as far as Harrison Wells recognizing Jay Garrick - the man we've come to know since Episode 2 - and as far as Zoom!Jay killing the Jay we've come to know since Episode 2.

 

[samsnee]

When we first see Wells, it's been established the Jay we know this whole season has been a speedster for a while. He has tension with Harrison. Zoom has also been around. It's most likely that the Jay we know is real Jay. Zoom is Jay from another Earth somehow. And Iron Mask is yet ANOTHER Jay. Basically Zoom-Jay is stealing everyone's speed from different Earth's ala Jet Li's movie, The One.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I agree with you, and Kreisberg's comments as posted by TV Line are consistent with this line of thinking.

However, you also have the totally conflicting comments he made as posted by Entertainment Weekly, which just don't make sense given what we've seen or given what he told TV Line.

 

[jrmtz543]

I seem to recall Wells saying he "created" Zoom with the particle accelerator explosion. Doesn't this mean Zoom should be a native of Earth 2? How / why would a third Jay come from another earth?

 

[Justin]

What if we haven't actually seen Jay Garrick at all yet, and he's in the iron mask.

We may have seen Hunter Zolomon of Earth one and of Earth two.

 

[WereCoyote]

What if we haven't actually seen Jay Garrick at all yet, and he's in the iron mask.

We may have seen Hunter Zolomon of Earth one and of Earth two.

If we haven't seen Jay Garrick, why does Wells think we have?

 

[Web-Head]

If we haven't seen Jay Garrick, why does Wells think we have?

Because Hunter Zolomon is Jay's twin. How would Wells know the difference?

 

[Lone]

They won't get some new face to be Zoom unmasked. There would be no emotional investment there during the reveal if that's the case. It's gonna be Teddy Sears.

Feels good to be right.

 

[WereCoyote]

Because Hunter Zolomon is Jay's twin. How would Wells know the difference?

So we have seen Jay Garrick, just not the one we think.

 

[Web-Head]

So we have seen Jay Garrick, just not the one we think.

Not if we've only seen E1 and E2 Hunter Zolomon so far.

 

[Justin]

My name is Jay Garrick and i'm the fastest Jay Garrick alive. To the outside Jay Garrick, i'm an ordinary Jay Garrick, but secretly, with the help of Jay Garrick, i fight Jay Garrick and find another Jay Garrick like me. I hunted Jay Garrick who killed my Jay Garrick, but in doing so, i opened up our world to new Jay Garricks. And I am the only one Jay Garrick enough to stop them. I am.... Jay Garrick!

 

[samsnee]

Does anyone have a link to the scene where we meet Jay's Earth 1 doppelganger where Jay says his name is Hunter Zolomon? Would like to see that scene again.

 

[Justin]

Does anyone have a link to the scene where we meet Jay's Earth 1 doppelganger where Jay says his name is Hunter Zolomon? Would like to see that scene again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq8nU1mSgPg

 

[Cain]

For all we know he could be from Earth-3.

 

[samsnee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq8nU1mSgPg

Thanks...I hope give a good explanation on how Jay has been able to be in the same room as Zoom beyond "Speed mirage".

 

[WereCoyote]

Thanks...I hope give a good explanation on how Jay has been able to be in the same room as Zoom beyond "Speed mirage".

Its obviously not a mirage or Zoom wouldn't be carrying the body.

 

[Justin]

Thanks...I hope give a good explanation on how Jay has been able to be in the same room as Zoom beyond "Speed mirage".

The 'Hunter Zolomon' on the bench could potentially have been E2 Everyman or even Zoom himself if they are working together. Jay could have a twin perhaps. Who knows. There's no clues in the clip really.

 

[Tanin]

Does this mean no more Tony Todd for the voice?

 

[Bren]

My name is Jay Garrick and i'm the fastest Jay Garrick alive. To the outside Jay Garrick, i'm an ordinary Jay Garrick, but secretly, with the help of Jay Garrick, i fight Jay Garrick and find another Jay Garrick like me. I hunted Jay Garrick who killed my Jay Garrick, but in doing so, i opened up our world to new Jay Garricks. And I am the only one Jay Garrick enough to stop them. I am.... Jay Garrick!

Very good

 

[Da-Scribe]

My name is Jay Garrick and i'm the fastest Jay Garrick alive. To the outside Jay Garrick, i'm an ordinary Jay Garrick, but secretly, with the help of Jay Garrick, i fight Jay Garrick and find another Jay Garrick like me. I hunted Jay Garrick who killed my Jay Garrick, but in doing so, i opened up our world to new Jay Garricks. And I am the only one Jay Garrick enough to stop them. I am.... Jay Garrick!

This is perfect.

Gotta say, I'm disappointed by the reveal only because it feels like a rehash of last season. But it at least makes Jay look less useless in hindsight, so I guess there's that. Still, I'm gonna play ball and see how it all plays out. The end result could make me appreciate all this a lot more as a whole.

 

[WeatherWizard99]

I am pretty sure that zoom IS hunter zolomon form EARTH-2 and that jay garrick is his twin

now, my only question is which option is the valid one:

option a
Jay is the man in the mask and and our Jay is an impostor

option b
our JAY is the real Jay and the man in the iron mask is someone new (in the sense that teddy sears is not playing him, I mean :b )

as I said in another thread, I am inclined to say option a, with our Jay being edward clariss... maybe brainwashed to think HE is Jay ... or maybe a clone of the real Jay

 

[Silliminite]

Here's my theory:

Hunter Zolomon and Jay Garrick are two different people, on both Earths. Teddy Sears only plays the Zolomon of both Earths, NOT Garrick. The doppelganger we saw sitting on the park bench was Zoom himself, and the two Zolomons were working with each other.

The man in the iron mask is E-2 Jay Garrick. I suspect he's being played either by John Wesley Ship or Rick Cosnett.