No Way Home “There Are Other Ways To See” - Charlie Cox Returns As Daredevil

[JubJub86]

It wasn't what? If you're trying to say it was never meant to be canon, then you're dead wrong.

Ease up, tiger, maybe get your facts straight before being so confident. Joss is on record somewhere saying as far as he's concerned Coulson died in Avengers and he only ever intended AoS as a kind of "what if?" situation.

Yes, the shows reference the movies - nobody's arguing that. Thing is, it's a one-way street, it's not reciprocated. It's always been the "what if?" situation, like a branching timeline type of vibe: within AoS the events of the movies have occurred, but it's neither here-nor-there within the movies whether AoS happened. Fans can assume it if they want, it works, fans can assume it didn't if they want, but as far as anything concrete goes AoS is a non-entity within the MCU.

Carter's a little different due to Jarvis in Endgame, but Carter was made by the MCU producers proper. It's the only show pre-Disney that Feige gave the nod to make. Couple that with Joss's take that Coulson died in Avengers, it's pretty cut-and-dry.

As to your discussion with Vile, why would using the same actor necessarily mean the same continuity/history, again? It could, should they have struck some deal with Netflix. Yes. It also couldn't, and that would be the more-likely scenario given they've cut ties with Netflix. Way more likely it's just "we like Charlie, we want to use Daredevil, here's our take on PG-13 Matt Murdock".

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Ease up, tiger, maybe get your facts straight before being so confident. Joss is on record somewhere saying as far as he's concerned Coulson died in Avengers and he only ever intended AoS as a kind of "what if?" situation.

Yes, the shows reference the movies - nobody's arguing that. Thing is, it's a one-way street, it's not reciprocated. It's always been the "what if?" situation, like a branching timeline type of vibe: within AoS the events of the movies have occurred, but it's neither here-nor-there within the movies whether AoS happened. Fans can assume it if they want, it works, fans can assume it didn't if they want, but as far as anything concrete goes AoS is a non-entity within the MCU.

Carter's a little different due to Jarvis in Endgame, but Carter was made by the MCU producers proper. It's the only show pre-Disney that Feige gave the nod to make. Couple that with Joss's take that Coulson died in Avengers, it's pretty cut-and-dry.

As to your discussion with Vile, why would using the same actor necessarily mean the same continuity/history, again? It could, should they have struck some deal with Netflix. Yes. It also couldn't, and that would be the more-likely scenario given they've cut ties with Netflix. Way more likely it's just "we like Charlie, we want to use Daredevil, here's our take on PG-13 Matt Murdock".

Joss says one thing, James Gunn says another thing, and Clark Gregg says another thing. Every person who has worked with Marvel Studios has put in their two cents but none of this takes away from what is actually portrayed in the Netflix MCU series, which is showing that the setting is the same setting as the MCU proper.

And as for my discussion with Vile, my point to them was literally the same as I am explaining to you which is: when these shows were incepted, they were meant to be canon to the MCU. I was never making the argument of whether the Netflix MCU will actually be treated as canon to the MCU moving forward. And if you don't get that, then you're missing the point too.

 

[JubJub86]

When's Gunn ever commented on AoS? And of course Gregg has an interest in propping it up as canon, he's one of the two main leads.

Regarding "intended as canon", the dude who created the ****ing thing thinks otherwise. He'd be the one bringing the "intended". It was treated as interconnected due to company synergy with ABC, no more no less. AoS is great, but it started out as a cash-in plain and simple.

When you get something outside of AoS/Carter reference AoS, get back to us. Not even saying it never happens, just as of now it's a nonstarter. Cox in this breaks the mold regarding the Netflix stuff, we'll have to see where that leads.

 

[NotNickFury]

When's Gunn ever commented on AoS? And of course Gregg has an interest in propping it up as canon, he's one of the two main leads.

Regarding "intended as canon", the dude who created the ****ing thing thinks otherwise. He'd be the one bringing the "intended". It was treated as interconnected due to company synergy with ABC, no more no less. AoS is great, but it started out as a cash-in plain and simple.

When you get something outside of AoS/Carter reference AoS, get back to us. Not even saying it never happens, just as of now it's a nonstarter. Cox in this breaks the mold regarding the Netflix stuff, we'll have to see where that leads.

Not SHIELD specifically, but he did say tweet saying he only indicated shows from WandaVision and onward are canon:

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

When's Gunn ever commented on AoS? And of course Gregg has an interest in propping it up as canon, he's one of the two main leads.

Regarding "intended as canon", the dude who created the ****ing thing thinks otherwise. He'd be the one bringing the "intended". It was treated as interconnected due to company synergy with ABC, no more no less. AoS is great, but it started out as a cash-in plain and simple.

When you get something outside of AoS/Carter reference AoS, get back to us. Not even saying it never happens, just as of now it's a nonstarter. Cox in this breaks the mold regarding the Netflix stuff, we'll have to see where that leads.

I don't need to get back to you about anything. especially not with your hostile attitude. my point has been this whole time that the Netflix MCU, when incepted, was meant to be part of the MCU proper. A lot of people came together to create Daredevil and if whoever you are referring to says otherwise then that also doesn't make sense, considering the script within the show itself. and it's not just about Charlie Cox. I don't want to get into too much of the spoiler territory but I made a thread in the Hawkeye forum about this

 

[JubJub86]

Yee-up, Fury. Bingo.

 

[thangaran]

I hope Charlie Cok don’t fight in his ill fitting black sweater and black jeans. Make no sense that dimb costume. He always showing his body which show how ill fitting his sweater is. He bend over like UK plumber and you see all back and stuff in netflix series. I always wonder if he do this to distract his opponents for quick second then HIT them hard! Just wear properly fitting clothing in this new Spiderman movie

 

[JubJub86]

Gotta love that Charlie Cok.

 

[TheVileOne]

Like I said, if what you're saying is true and Marvel Studios moving forward with a hard or soft reboot of Daredevil would mean having absolutely NO connection with the Netflix series, then that would mean leaving the previous cast behind too. Hiring the same cast literally means there are some elements of the previous incarnation that will be incorporated into the new one.

Elements. Not canon or continuity. Of course there will be similarities because they are all being adapted from the same source material.

you're arrogant, that's for sure. Never willing to admit when you're wrong (and I have proved you wrong before), and you did miss the point. in my post that you responded to, I never said anything about the MCU movies acknowledging Netflix MCU. You decided to bring that up yourself. What I said was that the Netflix MCU series were incepted from a deal between Disney and Netflix because at the time, there was no Disney+. Production on a Daredevil TV show started as soon as Disney got the rights of Daredevil back from Fox. The highest authority at Disney eventually decided that a series was better for the character instead of a film, and the series was set in the MCU.

If you watched the show then you know it supposed to be set in that same universe, in that main timeline. Now if it actually isn't the case, then there is the storytelling problem of wtf are all these characters referencing if they aren't a part of that world, did everyone in NY have the same fever dream about a Chitauri invasion, then wake up and all collectively decide it was real? The movies never acknowledging the shows does not take away from the fact that when these shows were incepted, they were meant to be canon.

But I'm not wrong.

Yes the shows were conceived as part of the MCU at the beginning. The references to the MCU were token references at best. As the shows progressed there were other token references but they all but abandoned any connection to the MCU. Later on the most we saw was a reference to the Raft in Jessica Jones S2. That's about it. Despite ratification of Sokovia Accords, absolutely nothing was done to incorporate that in the shows where appropriate. They didn't care. IT'S ALL CONNECTED was a fosh.

MCU never acknowledged the Netflix shows at all.

 

[TheVileOne]

Not SHIELD specifically, but he did say tweet saying he only indicated shows from WandaVision and onward are canon:

So basically there you go. Anything pre-WandaVision is not MCU. From James Gunn's own mouth. That should settle all of this.

 

[TheVileOne]

I hope Charlie Cok don’t fight in his ill fitting black sweater and black jeans. Make no sense that dimb costume. He always showing his body which show how ill fitting his sweater is. He bend over like UK plumber and you see all back and stuff in netflix series. I always wonder if he do this to distract his opponents for quick second then HIT them hard! Just wear properly fitting clothing in this new Spiderman movie

If we ever do see Daredevil again he better have a costume and not that black discount Iron Fist BS.

 

[RiXi]

Pretty sure Kevin Feige himself confirmed not long ago that, at least, Agent Carter is very much canon to the MCU.
You could argue that AoS had ties to it and therefore could be canon as well, but that's more debatable.
But at least one pre WV show is part of the MCU. And I trust Feige, the overall supervisor, more on this than James Gunn who has been a little apart.

 

[JubJub86]

Holy triple posting Vile, Batman.

Rixi, Feige only had anything to do with Carter. Seems the connections to AoS there are probably the same as with the broader MCU: "Disney owns us both let's swim in cash", not more.

 

[NotNickFury]

Agent Carter's first season at the very least is most definitely connected and canon. The fact that it begins with footage from The First Avenger and follows-up on Peggy after Steve went into the ice makes it pretty much a continuation of that storyline and era that First Avenger was set in, even with Steve not being there anymore.

But honestly, I think you could say things started off being more connected, even if it was just a one-way conversation. Getting Nick Fury and Sif on Agents of SHIELD shows some attempt at connection. I even think the Netflix shows, early on, referring to the Battle of New York, as The Incident shows there was an attempt at connection. But the whole "It's All Connected" game became a sham the more the shows went on, with Jeph Loeb and company being unwilling to admit that it didn't work.

 

[thangaran]

Gotta love that Charlie Cok.

yes he Wonder actor! Such challenge in role and Mr Charlie did so so SMASH!!

 

[JubJub86]

You need to lay off the giggle-juice there, Johnny Two-Toes.

 

[TheVileOne]

Agent Carter's first season at the very least is most definitely connected and canon. The fact that it begins with footage from The First Avenger and follows-up on Peggy after Steve went into the ice makes it pretty much a continuation of that storyline and era that First Avenger was set in, even with Steve not being there anymore.

But honestly, I think you could say things started off being more connected, even if it was just a one-way conversation. Getting Nick Fury and Sif on Agents of SHIELD shows some attempt at connection. I even think the Netflix shows, early on, referring to the Battle of New York, as The Incident shows there was an attempt at connection. But the whole "It's All Connected" game became a sham the more the shows went on, with Jeph Loeb and company being unwilling to admit that it didn't work.

I don't consider it canon.

 

[JubJub86]

It's not even just that it didn't work, it's that it didn't come from Feige & his team. Kinda says it all for "canon" or not. Carter the exception.

 

[thangaran]

Why are we talk AOS and Agent Cartier in this Charlie Cok Daredevil thread

anyhow look at useless suit. No more of this trash plewse



He look like tight 70s dancer Charlie Cok and not fighting Devil

 

[NotNickFury]

I don't consider it canon.

Well, Jarvis in Endgame didn't just appear out of nowhere. Even if someone hadn't seen Agent Carter and known he was there, it's still something.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Elements. Not canon or continuity. Of course there will be similarities because they are all being adapted from the same source material.

...the cast is one of the elements of the show. On the previous page, you said they aren't going to acknowledge anything from the Netflix series and if that were to be the case and they truly wanted zero association with the the past, then they wouldn't bring back the same cast. To say they aren't going to acknowledge anything would mean not even the actors portraying their previous roles, a full clean slate; nothing soft about the reboot.

But I'm not wrong.

Yes the shows were conceived as part of the MCU at the beginning.

Up until now you have been wrong, you are just too arrogant to admit it. I have said for the past 5 posts or so that my only point was exactly what you said in the bolded. But for some reason, you had the urge to continue telling me I was wrong despite me saying the exact same thing you did and the fact that you're partially agreeing with me makes you contradicting yourself even more.

The references to the MCU were token references at best. As the shows progressed there were other token references but they all but abandoned any connection to the MCU. Later on the most we saw was a reference to the Raft in Jessica Jones S2. That's about it. Despite ratification of Sokovia Accords, absolutely nothing was done to incorporate that in the shows where appropriate. They didn't care. IT'S ALL CONNECTED was a fosh.

MCU never acknowledged the Netflix shows at all.

Nothing for me to say here since I never tried to argue otherwise

 

[Dark Raven]

Why are we talk AOS and Agent Cartier in this Charlie Cok Daredevil thread

anyhow look at useless suit. No more of this trash plewse

View attachment 50502

He look like tight 70s dancer Charlie Cok and not fighting Devil

He looks just like DD from Trial of the Incredible Hulk with his budget black costume:

Except now when it's used in the DD TV series suddenly it's a cool proto costume apparently.

There is pretty much no difference between the two.

 

[thangaran]

He looks just like DD from Trial of the Incredible Hulk with his budget black costume:

Except now when it's used in the DD TV series suddenly it's a cool proto costume apparently.

There is pretty much no difference between the two.

Agreed. DD tv seies was poor lazy Chep costume. In Sethu’s name it poor functioning. At least the Trial one covered whole body and looked athlete style and was bietter over all. Total agre with your sentment that now when used in TV show it is hep and cool and niche proto-costume. I realz hope they forget this black boy pediatric suit and stick with real Virgin man red suit

 

[TheVileOne]

...the cast is one of the elements of the show. On the previous page, you said they aren't going to acknowledge anything from the Netflix series and if that were to be the case and they truly wanted zero association with the the past, then they wouldn't bring back the same cast. To say they aren't going to acknowledge anything would mean not even the actors portraying their previous roles, a full clean slate; nothing soft about the reboot.


Up until now you have been wrong, you are just too arrogant to admit it. I have said for the past 5 posts or so that my only point was exactly what you said in the bolded. But for some reason, you had the urge to continue telling me I was wrong despite me saying the exact same thing you did and the fact that you're partially agreeing with me makes you contradicting yourself even more.

Nothing for me to say here since I never tried to argue otherwise

You really do love to split hairs. OK, I'm wrong. What I meant was, they won't acknowledge anything from the Netflix shows EXCEPT the possible returning cast members they want to keep. The point is this won't be a continuation of the Netflix characters.

 

[Spidey_62]

Yeah, I'm happy this all hopefully means we won't have to sit through any more of Daredevil wearing a black-proto suit some more. It was fine the first season, but it was very irritating to me in season 3 when he was just wearing black again the whole time. I know there was a reason for it but the Netflix stuff to me always felt like they tried to get the characters in their iconic costumes as little as possible, if ever, like they were embarrassed being the dark serious shows they were.