12 killed in Colorado shooting at Dark Knight Rises premiere - Part 1

[The Question]

The insanity defense is only useful when facing the death penalty, and it's still murky as to wether or not this guy'll be sentenced to be executed.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

And people will still murder, pedophiles will still assault, and bank robbers will still rob. Does not mean we shouldn't have laws against them. You really can not see how making it more difficult for a psychopath to buy an assault rifle might not help here?

That is a bad analogy, as all of your examples are criminal acts. Owning a gun in an of itself is not a harmful criminal act. Just because someone owns a gun doesn't mean they are going to harm others with it, but someone who would use a gun to harm others will get that gun anyways. The only ones without guns will be those who could use the gun to defend themselves, or collectors, enthusiasts, sporters, or otherwise general responsible gun owners who would be being punished because of the deeds of a few.

Can guns be used to kill people? Yes. So can knives. Should knives be illegal? So can cars. Should motor vehicles be illegal? Matches and lighters can be used to start fires. Should matches and lighters be illegal?

I may agree that civilians have no need for fully automatic assault rifles, but to use this incident, and others like it, to outlaw guns and piss on the rights of responsible gun owners everywhere is irrational and irresponsible.

People can drown going to the pool, should that be illegal as well?

In some good news, however, to change the subject - that man shot that is a friend of one of my friends - well she reported to me today that he is home with his family. I don't know anything about the extent of his injuries or anything, but I can at least report that one victim is returned home to their family.

 

[Kelly]

Competency comes first....which I think he will be found competent to stand trial....insanity is harder to prove....

 

[Sawyer]

Murdering an innocent person doesn't count?

As mass murder? No.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Saw the news, and my God, how can one think of handling a gun and shooting people like that in a theater room?

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]389291[/split]

16th post in and you get this? What thread did this one originate from?

 

[The Apocalypse]

Saw the news, and my God, how can one think of handling a gun and shooting people like that in a theater room?
16th post in and you get this? What thread did this one originate from?

There was a thread in the Batman forum that was merged with this. Might be from that.

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

An insane person can plan something. They're not mutually exclusive concepts.

An insane person will murder without knowing the extent of their actions. Holmes spent over 8k in supplies had a high volume of deliveries to separate locations, set a timer on his radio to go off, studied the theatre layout, engineered advanced explosives and most importantly had a plan and intent to escape. He fully understood that what he was doing was wrong and shows no remorse. A voice didnt just tell him to pick up a knife and kill on the spot. So yes, premeditated mass homicide with intent to escape is indeed mutually exclusive to insanity and this is exactly why this is a highlight of all reports on this case in the media.

He is doing all he can in confinement to be convincingly crazy. At this point the only real defense he can present is an insanity plead explaining that he thinks he is in a movie. The psychiatric evaluator, judge and jury will have a hard time believing this guy did not know he was doing.

 

[Paroxysm]

An insane person will murder without knowing the extent of their actions. Holmes spent over 8k in supplies had a high volume of deliveries to separate locations, set a timer on his radio to go off, studied the theatre layout, engineered advanced explosives and most importantly had a plan and intent to escape. He fully understood that what he was doing was wrong and shows no remorse. A voice didnt just tell him to pick up a knife and kill on the spot. So yes, premeditated mass homicide with intent to escape is indeed mutually exclusive to insanity and this is exactly why this is a highlight of all reports on this case in the media.

He is doing all he can in confinement to be convincingly crazy. At this point the only real defense he can present is an insanity plead explaining that he thinks he is in a movie. The psychiatric evaluator, judge and jury will have a hard time believing this guy did not know he was doing.

Wrong, all worng.

 

[Darthphere]

An insane person will murder without knowing the extent of their actions. Holmes spent over 8k in supplies had a high volume of deliveries to separate locations, set a timer on his radio to go off, studied the theatre layout, engineered advanced explosives and most importantly had a plan and intent to escape. He fully understood that what he was doing was wrong and shows no remorse. A voice didnt just tell him to pick up a knife and kill on the spot. So yes, premeditated mass homicide with intent to escape is indeed mutually exclusive to insanity and this is exactly why this is a highlight of all reports on this case in the media.

He is doing all he can in confinement to be convincingly crazy. At this point the only real defense he can present is an insanity plead explaining that he thinks he is in a movie. The psychiatric evaluator, judge and jury will have a hard time believing this guy did not know he was doing.

Wrong, all worng.

Pretty much.

Honestly, again having the intent to escape doesn't make someone not insane.

 

[Shemtov]

Wrong, all worng.

Calarado Follows the M'Naghten Rule which definese insanity as "a basic inability to distinguish right from wrong.".
Holmes clearly knew what he was doing was wrong.

 

[Lighthouse]

That is a bad analogy, as all of your examples are criminal acts. Owning a gun in an of itself is not a harmful criminal act. Just because someone owns a gun doesn't mean they are going to harm others with it, but someone who would use a gun to harm others will get that gun anyways. The only ones without guns will be those who could use the gun to defend themselves, or collectors, enthusiasts, sporters, or otherwise general responsible gun owners who would be being punished because of the deeds of a few.

Can guns be used to kill people? Yes. So can knives. Should knives be illegal? So can cars. Should motor vehicles be illegal? Matches and lighters can be used to start fires. Should matches and lighters be illegal?

I may agree that civilians have no need for fully automatic assault rifles, but to use this incident, and others like it, to outlaw guns and piss on the rights of responsible gun owners everywhere is irrational and irresponsible.

People can drown going to the pool, should that be illegal as well?

In some good news, however, to change the subject - that man shot that is a friend of one of my friends - well she reported to me today that he is home with his family. I don't know anything about the extent of his injuries or anything, but I can at least report that one victim is returned home to their family.

You are comparing assault rifles to cars, matches, and swimming pools. THOSE are bad analogies.

 

[Darthphere]

Calarado Follows the M'Naghten Rule which definese insanity as "a basic inability to distinguish right from wrong.".
Holmes clearly knew what he was doing was wrong.

Not that easy. Because for all we know he had a psychotic episode where Jesus riding a unicorn told him to kill those people for being demons. In that case, he would feel that he was in the right.

Until we find out what his motives are, the insanity defense cannot and will not be dismissed.

 

[danoyse]

I definitely don't want to be one to pile onto the grief their families must be feeling.... but who takes a 6 year old to a midnight showing of a movie? Or a baby, for that matter?

The parents of the baby said they were hoping the baby would just sleep through it. They sat close to the exit to make a quick run for the door if the baby started to cry. They were really young too. I've seen parents do it before, not at the midnight showing, but at morning or afternoon shows.

As far as the 6-year-old, my mom said earlier tonight that she remembered that she considered letting me skip school the day one of the Star Wars movies came out when I was around the same age. She wound up taking me staight from school to the movie theater instead.

I don't know what their situation was, but maybe her mom was thinking of the same kind of treat for her own kid.

 

[Octavias]

There was just a mild panic at another TDKR show near Pittsburgh, Pa. A fight broke out and everyone fled the theater, worried that it was leading to another shooting...

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...-during-the-dark-knight-rises-showing-645763/

 

[tzarinna]

I work at a theater and we had to go over emergency procedures today before the show. It's a pretty big place, we had Bill Gates in last night and the night before that, Secret Service was in my section. Some of our security are armed, but is still pretty scary because it's such a large public building.

I've also noticed beefed up police on the Metro rail system.

 

[danoyse]

There was a fight over a seat when I saw The Avengers again a few weeks ago. It ended with the guy storming out yelling "**** THIS ****! I'M SEEING BATTLESHIP!!!" He called for his friends to follow him - they'd all managed to find seats - but no one followed him. Everyone got a laugh out of it because they were just morons.

I have a feeling no one's going to laugh at stuff like this again for a very long time.

 

[terry78]

AMC has changed their recent PSA before the movie to the older more serious one. Went to see TDKR again today and noticed it.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

You are comparing assault rifles to cars, matches, and swimming pools. THOSE are bad analogies.

I may agree that civilians have no need for fully automatic assault rifles

Obviously, I'm not.

but to use this incident, and others like it, to outlaw guns and piss on the rights of responsible gun owners everywhere is irrational and irresponsible.

And it still doesn't address this.

 

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

Compared to Friday night when I saw a bunch of cops acting as security at the theater I go to, there was zero of them tonight but eh. Theater staff would just come in once in a while to check the doors, but that's expected.

 

[Mike_D202]

http://news.yahoo.com/movie-massacre-suspect-mum-batman-mask-found-024202998.html

Now the media is headlining that a batman mask was found in his apartment. I hate the media.

 

[Spidey28]

Legal insanity is whether he knew right from wrong. If his intent was to escape then that shows he knew his actions had consequence.

 

[Paroxysm]

Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I wish mental health care were as easy to get as, say, a gun.

 

[TheDreamMaster]

http://news.yahoo.com/movie-massacre-suspect-mum-batman-mask-found-024202998.html

Now the media is headlining that a batman mask was found in his apartment. I hate the media.

Goddammit... I don't care how crazy he claims to be, once again, I have to protest that this had nothing to do with Batman! At most, I think the shooter had the idea as an addition to his insanity plea, but seriously, if someone did this in TASM, and they found Spidey comics in their apartment, does that make it their influence?

 

[Gale]

I hate when things get twisted around to blame one thing when it wasn't really that things fault.

Urgh! Stuff like this always makes me wonder why people can be so terrible...

 

[jmc]

So people are trying to pin this on Batman now?