12 killed in Colorado shooting at Dark Knight Rises premiere - Part 2

[AndrewGilkison]

You also seem to forget that the shooting victims are fans too. Midnight screening, they were probably in the same jubilant environment I was in - costumes, pictures, geek love everywhere. My first thought when I read about the shooting coming back from my midnight screening: "They were one of us. That could have been us if there was a psycho with a gun in the theater."

Would you be okay with them having a negative reaction every time they see "Batman," even though they were big enough fans to attend the midnight showing? Cause that's pretty tragic in itself too. And that's what the media is doing whenever they use that term - they're reminding the victims what they used to love is now something to hate.

 

[Kable24]

Yet, guns purchased at gun shows from private sellers do not require background checks or any other regulations in 33 out of 50 states.

I've bought 3 of my guns at gun shows and every time I had the background check done and the same paper work I fill out when I go to a gun store.
As for buying privately, in PA you need to go to an FFL dealer and have it transferred to the person who is buying the gun.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I haven't seen TDKR yet, and most of you know how crazy I am about it, I haven't seen it because I'm still too wrapped up in my own work and the last thing I want is to just watch it with a head full of worries, feeling guilty that i'm watching the last Dark Knight film while there's still piles of papers that needs to be finished. I'll be watching it soon enough with a clear mind, but this... entire tragedy in Colorado is just bizarre.

It was great of Bale to get himself over there -- that was a very good act on his part. I just hate the idea that now all of this, the violence, the tragedy, and the way they're presenting it on TV will be taken back to comic-book obsessives and geek-culture in general. My own folks were basically telling me how "that's what happens when you obsess too much over batman" and i'm like "hell no!"

But you get what i mean -- they'll want to blame something, and the movie itself would be a start.

(instead of y'know, the guy who did it)

 

[Midnight Black]

Nave, go see the movie. Trust me you will be immersed within the first 5-10mins.

 

[Spider-Who?]

A simple easy to use form from the post office would work fine. No?

Yes, because the first thing post offices want it to deal with is firearms. That isn't their job, nor is it something like that is even remotely free from forgery and easy to enforce.

Either private sellers and their buyers file paperwork with the proper authorities or, all firearms sales must go through a dealer of some sort.

And again, how do you enforce that? Does the government have the ability to know every time some one sell's their used coffee table to a friend? Like it or not, a gun is the owner's private property. The government stepping in and saying "No! You have to make your own private sales under our watch!" is NOT going to fly well, and then, when does that control end? How far down the rabbit hole of the government intruding on your life do you want to go?

No one would agree to that, because that is just added expense and man hours for the dealers and police who have to deal with that paperwork, which will trickle down into fees for the buyer and seller. I'm not trying to be a hard ass (I agree that states should take a hard look at their current gun laws), but everyone talks about "MORE GUN CONTROL!" with little to know idea of what can or cannot/should be done.

As it stands, a convicted felon can easily buy a perfectly legal gun.

Yes, some states will reinstate a state felon's right to own a gun (which is freaking stupid, I'll add), but the VAST MAJORITY of felons will NEVER own a gun legally again. And there is absolutely no reinstatement given to federal felons. This is a point where I was talking about earlier - things that can REALISTICALLY be done: get rid of the ability that some states have to grant gun privileges to state felons is a great start.

 

[mrvlknight21]

Does a private owner have to notify anyone of the sale?

No (again, I am talking about here in Georgia).
As I said, I have done this (purchase and selling) multiple times and there is nothing required except that the seller is supposed to confirm that the purchaser is a Georgia resident.

Nave, go see the movie. Trust me you will be immersed within the first 5-10mins.

Eeek. I definitely disagree with this, but thats another topic altogether.

 

[superpower]

Yes, because the first thing post offices want it to deal with is firearms. That isn't their job, nor is it something like that is even remotely free from forgery and easy to enforce.



And again, how do you enforce that? Does the government have the ability to know every time some one sell's their used coffee table to a friend? Like it or not, a gun is the owner's private property. The government stepping in and saying "No! You have to make your own private sales under our watch!" is NOT going to fly well, and then, when does that control end? How far down the rabbit hole of the government intruding on your life do you want to go?

No one would agree to that, because that is just added expense and man hours for the dealers and police who have to deal with that paperwork, which will trickle down into fees for the buyer and seller. I'm not trying to be a hard ass (I agree that states should take a hard look at their current gun laws), but everyone talks about "MORE GUN CONTROL!" with little to know idea of what can or cannot/should be done.



Yes, some states will reinstate a state felon's right to own a gun (which is freaking stupid, I'll add), but the VAST MAJORITY of felons will NEVER own a gun legally again. And there is absolutely no reinstatement given to federal felons. This is a point where I was talking about earlier - things that can REALISTICALLY be done: get rid of the ability that some states have to grant gun privileges to state felons is a great start.

Let me make my point a bit clearer.
I am only talking about picking up a firearm sales form from the post office. I used the post office example, it really could be anywhere, because I was thinking of tax time and being able to pick up my tax form there. I didn't mean to turn the post office into a pseudo firearm policing agency.

It seems to me that if a firearm were sold privately then used for a crime that this registered firearm owner could be traced much faster than an unregistered owner.

Also I want to know that this new owner is of sound mind with a clean background. Is that too much to ask?

This is not a coffee table. Don't allow your paranoia of the government force you to compare apples and oranges. I'm paranoid of them too but come on.

It is my right to own a gun and it is your right to know I am of sound mind.

 

[superpower]

No (again, I am talking about here in Georgia).
As I said, I have done this (purchase and selling) multiple times and there is nothing required except that the seller is supposed to confirm that the purchaser is a Georgia resident.




Eeek. I definitely disagree with this, but thats another topic altogether.

So how would you see this situation going.

You sell a gun, the buyer sells also. Eventually a murder takes place using your old gun that you bought New so it is registered to you.

What happens?

 

[halo10]

horrible, sad, shocking tragedy. My heart, thoughts and prayers go out to
all the victims and families and loved ones that lost someone due to
to this horrific incident. will we ever be safe from these lunatics?
This sad sack of a red-hair joker is a combination of pure evil and very disturbing, destructive low-self esteem.
i think he was sane enough to know what he did, and competent to understand the charges brought against him.
Let justice prevail. Please give him every bit of punishment he deserves.

But heck we keep hearing about is that this kind of crazy-whacko shooting sprees that tend to go down EVERY SINGLE YEAR.(columbine,virginia tech,fort hood,restaurants, shopping malls,churches, schools,etc.) and are worst fear is having some other nut with evil intentions wanting to mimick and copycat Holmes. As safety and security procedures are invented to help minimize these dangers. We have to keep on living and keep on going, and keep life fruitful as possible
as possible without letting these crazies hold us hostage with fear.

 

[bullets]

Of course some people think it's funny....
Scare in UK theatre over masked man at Batman showing

 

[terry78]

Now the limeys wanna get in on the act.

 

[Hotwire]

Yes, because the first thing post offices want it to deal with is firearms. That isn't their job, nor is it something like that is even remotely free from forgery and easy to enforce.



And again, how do you enforce that? Does the government have the ability to know every time some one sell's their used coffee table to a friend? Like it or not, a gun is the owner's private property. The government stepping in and saying "No! You have to make your own private sales under our watch!" is NOT going to fly well, and then, when does that control end? How far down the rabbit hole of the government intruding on your life do you want to go?

No one would agree to that, because that is just added expense and man hours for the dealers and police who have to deal with that paperwork, which will trickle down into fees for the buyer and seller. I'm not trying to be a hard ass (I agree that states should take a hard look at their current gun laws), but everyone talks about "MORE GUN CONTROL!" with little to know idea of what can or cannot/should be done.



Yes, some states will reinstate a state felon's right to own a gun (which is freaking stupid, I'll add), but the VAST MAJORITY of felons will NEVER own a gun legally again. And there is absolutely no reinstatement given to federal felons. This is a point where I was talking about earlier - things that can REALISTICALLY be done: get rid of the ability that some states have to grant gun privileges to state felons is a great start.

We do it with cars. Why shouldn't we do it with guns?

I'm going to elaborate. You are selling a potentially VERY dangerous weapon to someone with NO BACKGROUND check. And the only reason you can come up with as to why we should regulate all gun sales, private and dealer, is, "It's too hard!" Really? You say the felon cannot legally own a gun yet, you feel private gun sales shouldn't be regulated. How then, could you know the guy you're selling your gun to is not a felon?

 

[Shemtov]

We do it with cars. Why shouldn't we do it with guns?

Exactly.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

You also seem to forget that the shooting victims are fans too. Midnight screening, they were probably in the same jubilant environment I was in - costumes, pictures, geek love everywhere. My first thought when I read about the shooting coming back from my midnight screening: "They were one of us. That could have been us if there was a psycho with a gun in the theater."

Would you be okay with them having a negative reaction every time they see "Batman," even though they were big enough fans to attend the midnight showing? Cause that's pretty tragic in itself too. And that's what the media is doing whenever they use that term - they're reminding the victims what they used to love is now something to hate.

Are you talking about the victims who were shot? Because I think there would be some kind of negative reaction with them regarding Batman period, regardless of the media. I mean I know if I was attempted to be gunned down in a movie theater, the particular movie in question would probably be tainted, regardless of the media. In my own way (to a very much lesser extent), there are some video games that I am a very big fan of, that have something of a taint to me because I played them during some very bad points in my life, so I sometimes associate the game with that bad moment. I still play the games, I don't hate them, but there are times when playing them that I can be reminded of the bad things that I associate with them. It's how human minds often work.

I know all about the types of people who go to midnight showings. While I don't dress up, I go to midnight showings fairly regularly, and I went to a midnight showing of Dark Knight Rises. I got my picture taken with what may have been the best Batman costume I have ever seen. You're right, that could have been any of us. It could have been any of our movie theaters. Just like it could have been any of us on one of the flights on 9/11. Or it could be any one of us that could get t-boned by a drunk driver.

That doesn't mean the media should sweep this under the rug and pretend that Batman wasn't involved in this to protect the image of the movie and the characters. The movie is in no way responsible for what happened, but the movie is very much attached to it.

They also shouldn't go out of their way to make connections either. That much is very irresponsible. But calling it "The Dark Knight Massacre" isn't irresponsible, it is an identifier of what happened.

 

[mrvlknight21]

So how would you see this situation going.

You sell a gun, the buyer sells also. Eventually a murder takes place using your old gun that you bought New so it is registered to you.

What happens?

Well, because I am in law enforcement, I think of situations like this and make sure to cover all my bases. So, I came up with a bill of sale (based on another state's form that they use for private party gun sales) and I have the person fill it out and sign it. It includes the buyer's name, address, DOB, etc, the gun make, model and serial number and the date of sale and purchase price. It also says that I have verified that the buyer is a Georgia resident via drivers license or some other means.

This way I am covered.
I cant speak for others that dont do this.

 

[ultimatefan]

On the topic of gun control, one of the best articles I´ve read about the issue recently:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-4-most-meaningless-arguments-against-gun-control/

 

[superpower]

Well, because I am in law enforcement, I think of situations like this and make sure to cover all my bases. So, I came up with a bill of sale (based on another state's form that they use for private party gun sales) and I have the person fill it out and sign it. It includes the buyer's name, address, DOB, etc, the gun make, model and serial number and the date of sale and purchase price. It also says that I have verified that the buyer is a Georgia resident via drivers license or some other means.

This way I am covered.
I cant speak for others that dont do this.

I fully commend you on doing that. Infact I even thank you for doing that because it makes me feel better knowing that there is documentation somewhere showing who has that gun.

But as I sit here thinking about it I am reminding myself that someone's information on file isn't going to stop them from committing an act that they are committed to make.
The last thing I want is to see good people being man handled by the heavy hand of government.

So. Now I am back to my "there is no certainty". If I am a deranged felon with a target all I need is a home made pea shooter. Which now makes me question the need to even have FOI Cards. It's really just a "your ok today" card which does nothing to stop the shooting I commit tomorrow.

So how about the FOIC? As an officer and gun owner do you see any substantial benefit from the FOIC?

Such a slippery slope this topic is.

 

[mrvlknight21]

I fully commend you on doing that. Infact I even thank you for doing that because it makes me feel better knowing that there is documentation somewhere showing who has that gun.

But as I sit here thinking about it I am reminding myself that someone's information on file isn't going to stop them from committing an act that they are committed to make.
The last thing I want is to see good people being man handled by the heavy hand of government.

So. Now I am back to my "there is no certainty". If I am a deranged felon with a target all I need is a home made pea shooter. Which now makes me question the need to even have FOI Cards. It's really just a "your ok today" card which does nothing to stop the shooting I commit tomorrow.

So how about the FOIC? As an officer and gun owner do you see any substantial benefit from the FOIC?

Such a slippery slope this topic is.

FOIC...is that Firearms Owner Identification Card? I had to look that acronym up because it isnt one that I am familiar with. Apparently this is only issued in Illinois...is that right?

I assume that this is the same as the Carry Permits issued here in Georgia. Essentially all that is required is a background check and it lasts for 5 years.

Well, look, all that a firearms dealer CAN do (at this point) is check a person's history and that is the same thing that this permit does. I said a few times in this thread that a determined person will get whatever is necessary to commit a crime (bomb, gun, getaway car, etc). And you are right, any person that can pass a background check CAN apply and receive a permit...but if they had crimes in mind at the time of purchase, Im not sure why they WOULD go through the trouble. And a legal gun owner who has never committed a crime and has a number of firearms could "snap" at any given time, go on a rampage and do something like this Colorado incident.

A background check, or 100 background checks cant prevent what could happen today or tomorrow. Until we get those folks from the Minority report movie to help us see crimes before they happen, the background check is currently the only way to determine if someone is legally eligible to own a gun.

 

[superpower]

FOIC...is that Firearms Owner Identification Card? I had to look that acronym up because it isnt one that I am familiar with. Apparently this is only issued in Illinois...is that right?

I assume that this is the same as the Carry Permits issued here in Georgia. Essentially all that is required is a background check and it lasts for 5 years.

Well, look, all that a firearms dealer CAN do (at this point) is check a person's history and that is the same thing that this permit does. I said a few times in this thread that a determined person will get whatever is necessary to commit a crime (bomb, gun, getaway car, etc). And you are right, any person that can pass a background check CAN apply and receive a permit...but if they had crimes in mind at the time of purchase, Im not sure why they WOULD go through the trouble. And a legal gun owner who has never committed a crime and has a number of firearms could "snap" at any given time, go on a rampage and do something like this Colorado incident.

A background check, or 100 background checks cant prevent what could happen today or tomorrow. Until we get those folks from the Minority report movie to help us see crimes before they happen, the background check is currently the only way to determine if someone is legally eligible to own a gun.

Yes that is the firearm owners identification card.

Lol on the minority report precogs.

Take it one day/case at a time is all we can really do.

The first time a rock or spear was used to cause suffering the good people did not stand and abolish those things.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Of course some people think it's funny....
Scare in UK theatre over masked man at Batman showing

Was that guy actually pulling a prank or was he just dressed like Bane? It seems unclear to me in the article.

 

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

Dane Cook is using the Colorado shooting tragedy as material for his standup act.

Last night, Cook took the stage at the Laugh Factory on Sunset Blvd. and began to talk about "Dark Knight Rises."

In footage, obtained by DailyCaller.com, Cook can be heard saying ...

"So I heard that the guy came into the theater about 25 minutes into the movie ... And I don’t know if you’ve seen the movie, but the movie is pretty much a piece of crap ... yeah, spoiler alert.”

Cook continued ... “I know that if none of that would have happened, pretty sure that somebody in that theater, about 25 minutes in, realizing it was a piece of crap, was probably like ‘ugh f***ing shoot me.’”

TMZ has the audio too.

 

[Minus Shock]

And again, how do you enforce that? Does the government have the ability to know every time some one sell's their used coffee table to a friend? Like it or not, a gun is the owner's private property. The government stepping in and saying "No! You have to make your own private sales under our watch!" is NOT going to fly well, and then, when does that control end? How far down the rabbit hole of the government intruding on your life do you want to go?

I'm pretty sure you have to register your car.. which is still your private property. Sure you can possibly own and operate it secretly but should you get caught your punishment will be more severe. No one complains about car registration or says that the government is infringing on our freedoms when we have to pay whatever the monetary amount is annually to keep the registration current. If a person buys a gun they should be held accountable for it on the same kind of basis. It's not big brother, it's smart.

I swear people just make up reasons why any sort of control on firearms is impossible. Which is utter b/s. You're right though it comes down to people actually wanting to progress as a society and move towards a more non-violent way of living. Which from what I can gather from the nay sayers is that there is little interest in that.

None the less this is not the forum to discuss political issues. A point was made, I countered, now I say lets keep this about honoring and thinking of the victims and any new information we gather. Not about selling an agenda. If we want to have the discussion on gun control, start a new thread for it.

 

[Darthphere]

I don't understand these arguments where people compare a gun to a comic book, a coffee table, a broom, a frying pan, bottle of bleach, a box of Lucky Charms etc. I mean, do you not see the obvious difference between a gun and all these items? If you're a gun collector and have WWII era weapons on display, you still don't see why that's different than someone displaying their copy of Action Comics #1? It's frankly ridiculous and it's just a tactic to divert the argument.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Of course some people think it's funny....
Scare in UK theatre over masked man at Batman showing

that employee is a dick.

 

[Kable24]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/2...oting-plot-in-maryland-seize-arsenal-weapons/

Here we go with the copy cats.