15-Year-Old Wrestling Thread is STOKED That Shawn Michaels Kicked It in the Face

[Donnie Darko]

Every now and then you hear someone call it out. I remember just a few weeks back, one of the Usos was about to Irish whip Rollins, and he yelled out "Reverse!" pretty clearly.

 

[Wheels]

ok, thanks!!

so there is improvisation and planning the match on the fly, so to speak.

I've just always wondered about this.

Yep. It amazes me how so many people can disrespect pro wrestling when you look at everything thar makes it work.

 

[Pink Ranger]

ok, thanks!!

so there is improvisation and planning the match on the fly, so to speak.

I've just always wondered about this.

There's a match on YT of Bret Hart vs. Ricky Steamboat. Probably the most fundamentally sound match the WWE has ever recorded. It's probably a textbook example of how a WWE-style match is worked.

If you know what you are looking for, there are clear instances, during rest-holds and close contact situations, where you can see Bret or Ricky say something quietly, possibly with their faces away from the camera, and a short sequence of holds and reversals coming directly after that. It's quite interesting to watch that match from that perspective.

It's also a good example of the "heel leads" principle, where the heel largely directs the match physically. You'll see instances where Bret, whether he is on the giving or receiving end of a given move or sequence, seems to be slightly pulling Ricky along the ring with him, It is similar to ballroom dancing, where the dancer in the gentleman position largely steers his partner around the floor.

 

[OnTheAir]

Randy Savage famously liked to plan out his big matches...Wrestlemania III in particular comes to mind.

 

[X Knight]

thanks, guys!!

yeah, I respect the wrestlers ( and wrestling ) as performers. and perhaps that's in part because, in my younger years, I danced ballet and every year, we would put on performances at the local theater. so I come from that background.

I cringe when people say wrestling is fake and use that to put down the business. yes, it's fake. but so is that drama on TV or the movie in the theater.

pro wrestling is ultimately storytelling, and the wrestlers aren't just athletes, they're performers, too.

 

[Pink Ranger]

thanks, guys!!

yeah, I respect the wrestlers ( and wrestling ) as performers. and perhaps that's in part because, in my younger years, I danced ballet and every year, we would put on performances at the local theater. so I come from that background.

I cringe when people say wrestling is fake and use that to put down the business. yes, it's fake. but so is that drama on TV or the movie in the theater.

pro wrestling is ultimately storytelling, and the wrestlers aren't just athletes, they're performers, too.

Interesting. If you were to compare wrestling to dance, you can almost make the analogy that in a traditional 1 vs 1 match, the heel is the male dancer, and the face is the female dancer.

Although I tend to lean towards wrestling being more like ballroom/latin dancesport rather than choreographed ballet or contemp. jazz.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Is it necessary to do Wyatts vs Shield before the Shield breakup? What do you guys think?

I think it's too good to leave on the table. I'd like to see the first ever tag team Elimination chamber match between the two groups.

there's something that I've always wondered about.........

obviously, the outcome of a wrestling match is planned/scripted.

but, how much of the actual match is planned or choreographed?

is every move, sequence, spot planned?

or, are the major "pillars" of the match planned, with the nitty gritty details left up to the wrestlers to improvise?

Like, they plan out how the match starts. then, in the middle, a certain event will happen which will turn the tide. and finally, it will end in a certain way. but, the actual moves and sequences in between are left up to the wrestlers to make up on the go?

I see you got a few answers, it really depends on the wrestlers involved. A lot of younger wrestlers who use complex move sets plan out a lot of the sequences in advance, but even some old dogs like Randy Savage (As OnThe Air mentions) and Diamond Dallas Page liked to plan things out in detail.

Guys like HBK, Taker and Triple H for example though would go out there with a finish and nothing else, they can even call a match in the ring without speaking to some degree as they know each others stuff so well.

I remember Punk saying him and Cena had 45 minutes to fill at MITB 2011 and went out to the ring with nothing but a finish, which drove Michael Hayes nuts as he couldn't tell the production truck to prepare for any significant spots.

So the quality of the workers and how much they have wrestled each other factors in. For instance The Rock and Punk rehearsed their entire match before the Rumble as Rock was always a guy who liked to do that, there's videos of him rehearsing sequences with Triple H from back in 2000, and with him not having wrestled in such a long time and having never worked with Punk they obviously played it very safe.

You also have to factor in the match context, if your match is part of an angle then there may be some very deliberate things that guys go over as story points, however if the match is just a basic contest on Raw or another TV show, then there's no need for that.

Then you have matches that will include weapons and tables, if you watch you'll notice that they usually divide the table bumps and hits they take from chairs or kendo sticks between them, so it all evens out, unless the story calls for a face to be destroyed or a heel to get his comeuppance, in which case the amount of punishment taken will be lopsided.

Sorry for the ramble, I think it's an interesting question without a straight forward answer,

 

[X Knight]

^ that's an interesting analogy, Pink Ranger.

 

[X Knight]

I think it's too good to leave on the table. I'd like to see the first ever tag team Elimination chamber match between the two groups.



I see you got a few answers, it really depends on the wrestlers involved. A lot of younger wrestlers who use complex move sets plan out a lot of the sequences in advance, but even some old dogs like Randy Savage (As OnThe Air mentions) and Diamond Dallas Page liked to plan things out in detail.

Guys like HBK, Taker and Triple H for example though would go out there with a finish and nothing else, they can even call a match in the ring without speaking to some degree as they know each others stuff so well.

I remember Punk saying him and Cena had 45 minutes to fill at MITB 2011 and went out to the ring with nothing but a finish, which drove Michael Hayes nuts as he couldn't tell the production truck to prepare for any significant spots.

So the quality of the workers and how much they have wrestled each other factors in. For instance The Rock and Punk rehearsed their entire match before the Rumble as Rock was always a guy who liked to do that, there's videos of him rehearsing sequences with Triple H from back in 2000, and with him not having wrestled in such a long time and having never worked with Punk they obviously played it very safe.

You also have to factor in the match context, if your match is part of an angle then there may be some very deliberate things that guys go over as story points, however if the match is just a basic contest on Raw or another TV show, then there's no need for that.

Then you have matches that will include weapons and tables, if you watch you'll notice that they usually divide the table bumps and hits they take from chairs or kendo sticks between them, so it all evens out, unless the story calls for a face to be destroyed or a heel to get his comeuppance, in which case the amount of punishment taken will be lopsided.

Sorry for the ramble, I think it's an interesting question without a straight forward answer,

Thanks, Hunter!!

that's very interesting!!

I guess that's another example of why chemistry between the wrestlers is so important in putting on a stellar match.

some wrestlers just click and work well with each other. others....not so much.......lol

 

[Hunter Rider]

Thanks, Hunter!!

that's very interesting!!

I guess that's another example of why chemistry between the wrestlers is so important in putting on a stellar match.

some wrestlers just click and work well with each other. others....not so much.......lol

No problem.

In-ring chemistry is really hard to predict as well, like HBK vs Mr. Perfect, on paper it should be a classic but in reality they just didn't click, same recently with Angle and Aries, both guys have great chemistry with AJ and Roode, but not each other.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Foley Claus & SuperCena!

 

[Hunter Rider]

This discussion got me thinking, it must have been easier to work on the fly years ago when the moves that most guys used were so much more basic than some of the stuff they do today.

The other thing that came to mind is something I've been thinking about for a while, a great worker and a great performer are not one in the same.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

In Reseda Christmas vacation and for PWG All-Star Weekend Nights One and Two!

 

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

Foley Claus & SuperCena!

Add in Batman and it's a 10 year olds fantasy come to life.

 

[sweetre15]

Just read the SD spoilers again for Next Week's SD and there is one thing that annoyed me, Why in the Blue hell is the Corpus Christi audience chanting "You can't wrestle" at Ziggler? lol

 

[Wheels]

Just read the SD spoilers again for Next Week's SD and there is one thing that annoyed me, Why in the Blue hell is the Corpus Christi audience chanting "You can't wrestle" at Ziggler? lol

Because they confused wrestling and winning matches.

 

[sweetre15]

Because they confused wrestling and winning matches.

Shame...They should know better than that

 

[TripleR]

Add in Batman and it's a 10 year olds fantasy come to life.

Add Batman, replace Cena with Bryan, and its my fantasy lmao

 

[DX]

WWE.com just listed the top 25 matches of the year:

http://www.wwe.com/inside/top-25-matches-of-the-year

Cena/Rock isn't even on the list.

 

[Wheels]

WWE.com just listed the top 25 matches of the year:

http://www.wwe.com/inside/top-25-matches-of-the-year

Cena/Rock isn't even on the list.

How could anyone could anyone forget the epicness of Barrett vs Miz lol.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

AJ Styles will be a part of CZW's 15th Anniversary/WSU double header on February 8th.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

will be amazed if we ever see sting or aj in a wwe ring, i still say it will never happen

 

[Hunter Rider]

I just caught up on Impact, I thought Roode vs Angle suffered from being rushed, those guys need 30 minutes if you want them to deliver a 2 out of 3 falls match, instead all the stip did was make everything feel disjointed.

The feast of fired segment makes a late play for worst of the year.....If it was any more bush league it would be a European Vagina convention.

The storyline that ran throughout the show and the main event were the epitome of what is wrong with TNA, they tried to muddy the water to such an extent that Magnus win didn't look like a heel turn, it looked like they helped him win when Hardy wouldn't be nice to Dixie, it was a total mess and the silly gimmick match was once again TNA trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Hunter Rider]

WWE.com just listed the top 25 matches of the year:

http://www.wwe.com/inside/top-25-matches-of-the-year

Cena/Rock isn't even on the list.

There is some really good matches on that list like a few of The Shield matches I couldn't remember the date of. Great to see Bryan vs Cesaro so high and the correct #1.

Yet it is odd that the MOTY on WWE.com was not even nominated for fans to vote on, and wont be getting a rematch, yet the match that won the slammy isn't even in the 25.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Love this pic!