2009 NFL Draft Thread (aka Excel & Norman's personal b**ch and moan thread)

[SurfDUI]

I've been readin bout Ronnie Brown all day, who else did the COLTS grab?
I'm at work.

 

[NotFadeAway]

Why the hell did the Panthers draft a RB? Grab one of the Guards that our left. Duke Robinson is still on the board, that guy could take Keydrick Vincents spot for crying out loud. Oh well, they probably don't want a guy with any kind of attitude. Please Football God, give me Duke Robinson or Herman Johnson with our next pick. Please, this draft has been way to finesse, which, if were basically running the Colts version of the Tampa 2 next season, we have made good picks. Would have rather had Terrence Taylor at DT in the third, but oh well. We need to get a little more stout.

So far, in terms of potential return, the Bengals have had the best draft so far.

 

[Dark Donnie]

A bit biased there, Donnie Boy.

Maclin's skill set is just a clone of Jackson's. He doesn't help you in the special teams game, and you already had two vertical threats in Jackson and Curtis. Where is the possession receiver?

Granted he's a burner like Jackson and a vertical threat, but he is a bigger target then Jackson standing 6-1 200 pounds. I think he can be a effective possession guy.

 

[Dark Donnie]

Eagles trade two 5th rounders for Ellis Hobbs....also rumors of us landing Scheffler.

 

[NotFadeAway]

And the Panthers DON'T take Duke Robinson......

 

[Immortalfire]

And the Panthers DON'T take Duke Robinson......

Falcons were looking at him not long ago. Had him work out for them, a week or so back.

 

[NotFadeAway]

Falcons were looking at him not long ago. Had him work out for them, a week or so back.

Wonderful.....because thats what I want, you guys getting even better.

 

[Excel]

Adios Ellis.

Maclin is not like Jackon,or atleast as much as people think. He has less wiggle, agility, and moves; however he is bigger. I dont buy the Torry Holt comparisons as much as I buy the Anquan Boldin / Steve Smith ones; he runs short routes beneath the defenses and does his business after the catch. DeSean can their main down the field go, but can do short and deep just like Maclin. Curtis in the slot can do both as well. Maclin gives the Eagles a potential top 10 reciecing corps, which they havent had since what, week 5 in 2005, and that was due to one player? When Kevin Curtis, who had 1100 yards in 2007 and can really run, is your #3 guy you ok. McNabb is now surrounded by playmakers (including LeSean McCoy, who basically a slower version of Reggie Bush with the same wiggle and moves, and woulda gone top 15 had he stayed for another season at Pitt), though they still lack a true possessio/redzone guy, but Maclin can quite possibly be that guy.

Plus, IMAGINE reverse to Jackson who then does a double reverse to Maclin with McNabb lead block

 

[redfirebird2008]

You gotta respect that.I wish other coaches put as much emphasis on academics - not everyone make it to the NFL.

The coolest thing about it is this was not some scrub. It was Edward Britton, who happens to be a returning star receiver and is expected to be a senior leader on the team now that Harrell and Crabtree are gone. He has made some crucial catches for us over the years including in the game against Texas last year. He's a speed-burner that has had problems hanging onto the ball over the years but his hands have gotten better with more and more experience each year. For Leach to embarrass him like that in front of his teammates is pretty funny. Leach definitely doesn't mess around. He may be a goofball on certain subjects, but discipline is something he takes very seriously.

 

[redfirebird2008]

a playmaker that is nursing a stress fracture and a high ankle sprain....shows up late and travels with an entourage

1. The ankle sprain is healed.

2. The stress fracture is almost 100% healed.

3. The whole "diva" BS is blown out of proportion. The Browns sent an apology to him for making such a big deal out of it. They never even talked to his effin' college coach, a man who knows him a hell of a lot better than anyone in the NFL knows him. Leach said Crabtree worked his ass off at Tech and was always a good team player. This notion that he's a Chad Johnson type is BS.

 

[VampElvis]

Andre Smith is bigger, stronger, and more powerful than Monroe or Jason Smith, and he has the athleticsm that a guy like Phil Loadholt doesn't. If anything, he is a pro bowl Right Tackle for years to come.

There's a reason they called him Wal-Mart at The Capstone.
I think Oher from Ole Miss has been overlooked in your list. My money says he's a pro bowler too.

 

[Excel]

Smith is prob. the most natural player in the draft; if he hadnt botched the combine and draft process he woulda gone top 2.

The more I think about the more I think Darrius Heyward Bey over Crabtree makes sense. Aside from the fact that they have 3 starting running backs will prob. combine for 40 carries a game, they have guys like Miller, Walker, Schillens (huge target), and even their rbs to be their "possession" guys; DHB is the missing piece in an downfield threat. With a bigger frame and higher vert, he is also the red zone target theyve needed. They will likely rely on the coverage he'll demand from defenses down the field to open things up for their rbs and give their revamped oline less guys to block. It makes sense to get the guy who will be top 3 fastest wr's in NFL to match the NFL's strongest arm. Crabtree is another possesion guy for them

Play action bombs from Jmarcus to Heyward Bey should be incredibly effective; atleast far more effective than they woulda been with Crabtree or even Maclin. I wouldnt surpised if DHB ends the year with only 40 something rec for 900-1000 yards and double digit td's.

Patriots draft motto is "dont tell me what they cant do, tell me what they do well and we'll put em in a position to that'. HB does Oaklands need-stretch the field-a lot better than Crabtree could.

 

[El_Citrus]

Eagles trade two 5th rounders for Ellis Hobbs....also rumors of us landing Scheffler.

Nice pick up for Philly. Hobbs will be a very decent CB to compliment Samuel and Brown if he stays.

 

[BlackLantern]

I still think the NFL should consider making the draft a closed event (press, draftees and family only)...the fans are getting a bit out of hand in the past few years

 

[redfirebird2008]

Smith is prob. the most natural player in the draft; if he hadnt botched the combine and draft process he woulda gone top 2.

The more I think about the more I think Darrius Heyward Bey over Crabtree makes sense. Aside from the fact that they have 3 starting running backs will prob. combine for 40 carries a game, they have guys like Miller, Walker, Schillens (huge target), and even their rbs to be their "possession" guys; DHB is the missing piece in an downfield threat. With a bigger frame and higher vert, he is also the red zone target theyve needed. They will likely rely on the coverage he'll demand from defenses down the field to open things up for their rbs and give their revamped oline less guys to block. It makes sense to get the guy who will be top 3 fastest wr's in NFL to match the NFL's strongest arm. Crabtree is another possesion guy for them

Play action bombs from Jmarcus to Heyward Bey should be incredibly effective; atleast far more effective than they woulda been with Crabtree or even Maclin. I wouldnt surpised if DHB ends the year with only 40 something rec for 900-1000 yards and double digit td's.

Patriots draft motto is "dont tell me what they cant do, tell me what they do well and we'll put em in a position to that'. HB does Oaklands need-stretch the field-a lot better than Crabtree could.

I agree with the overall point about stretching the field through play-action passes to DHB, although one point I disagree with is on the red zone factor. Crabtree is hands down the best receiver in the red zone in this draft. DHB doesn't have the hands yet, but he might develop good hands through enough practice. I think the Raiders would likely rely on more proven receivers on their team for red zone plays at this point, but DHB is an immediate downfield threat in the play-action game with Russell's ultra strong arm.

 

[Excel]

DHB is taller with much better ups than Crabs; he can potentially be molded into a rz monster ala Randy or Calvin; I dont see such upside for MC.

 

[redfirebird2008]

DHB is taller with much better ups than Crabs; he can potentially be molded into a rz monster ala Randy or Calvin; I dont see such upside for MC.

DHB is a friggin' quarter of an inch taller than MC. You need to stop the hyperbole. There isn't much difference between 6 foot 1 and 3/8 vs. 6 foot 1 and 5/8. Crabtree can juke the everloving hell out of people. That's something DHB can't do. Being fast in a straight line doesn't mean jack squat when you're in the red zone. Crabtree can blow people away on the quick slant or out routes, and he has plenty of hops to make impressive catches. You're acting like Crabtree's a midget and DHB is towering over him when he really isn't. They're practically the same height. I would also say Crabtree is the more physical receiver from the footage I've seen of DHB.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Here's another thing about Crabtree that you may not realize, Excel. He has a bigger wingspan than Calvin Johnson despite being 3 and a half inches shorter than him in height. That means he has the wingspan of a guy who is taller than 6 foot 5, which you would think gives him a pretty good ability in the jump ball against corners and other DB's. Here's a list of notable wingspan measurements. DHB's wingspan is also impressive:

Wingspan Measurements

'09 Draft Class Receivers

Michael Crabtree: 34.25"

Kenny Britt: 34"

Darius Heyward-Bey: 33.625"

Jeremy Maclin: 32.5"

Percy Harvin: 31.625"

Brian Robiske: 31.5"

Derrick Williams: 31"



'09 Class Offensive Linemen

Eugene Monroe 33.875"

Jason Smith 33.75"

Michael Oher: 33.5"

Alex Mack: 33"

Eben Britten: 32.75"



Notable Current NFL WRs

Calvin Johnson (6'5"): 33.375"

Braylon Edwards (6'4"): 33.125"

Brandon Marshal (6'4"): 32.625"

Vincent Jackson (6'4"): 33.625"

 

[Excel]

I wonder what Randys wingspan is.

Red zone threat in the NFL is more about jump ball ability than short routes.

DHB is a friggin' quarter of an inch taller than MC. You need to stop the hyperbole. There isn't much difference between 6 foot 1 and 3/8 vs. 6 foot 1 and 5/8. Crabtree can juke the everloving hell out of people. That's something DHB can't do. Being fast in a straight line doesn't mean jack squat when you're in the red zone. Crabtree can blow people away on the quick slant or out routes, and he has plenty of hops to make impressive catches. You're acting like Crabtree's a midget and DHB is towering over him when he really isn't. They're practically the same height. I would also say Crabtree is the more physical receiver from the footage I've seen of DHB.

#'s shmumbers; on tape, HB is more impessive in the red zone than Crabtree is. Crabs is no doubt better on the slants and quick outs, but jump ability goes HB by a mile. In the NFL, the quick slant in the red zone is a lot harder to execute than at Texas Tech.

Crabtree is imo an Andre Johnson clone but a tad shorter, and though AJ is top 3 wr in the game, he wasnt exactly a touchdown machine last year. Heyward Bey has the ability to Moss people, MC doesn't, thats all Im saying. It doesnt mean anything unless HB learns to do it consistently in games, something he didnt do in college.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I wonder what Randys wingspan is.

Red zone threat in the NFL is more about jump ball ability than short routes.



#'s shmumbers; on tape, HB is more impessive in the red zone than Crabtree is. Crabs is no doubt better on the slants and quick outs, but jump ability goes HB by a mile. In the NFL, the quick slant in the red zone is a lot harder to execute than at Texas Tech.

Crabtree is imo an Andre Johnson clone but a tad shorter, and though AJ is top 3 wr in the game, he wasnt exactly a touchdown machine last year. Heyward Bey has the ability to Moss people, MC doesn't, thats all Im saying. It doesnt mean anything unless HB learns to do it consistently in games, something he didnt do in college.

He won't be able to do it consistently if he can't hang onto the ball consistently. All the "measurables" in the world won't do him any good if he can't catch the ball. Crabtree has proven a strong ability in the red zone to get the job done. The other thing about Crabtree is that he's only been playing receiver for 3 years. He's made a very quick turnaround from QB to receiver and I think he's going to get better and better. People have been doubting him his whole career and he keeps proving 'em wrong. UT offered him a schollie to play cornerback. He turned them down and said he wants to score touchdowns rather than play defense. As Deion said the other day, "He's a man on a mission."

 

[NotFadeAway]

There's a reason they called him Wal-Mart at The Capstone.
I think Oher from Ole Miss has been overlooked in your list. My money says he's a pro bowler too.

I think Oher was the 2nd best OT in the draft. I personally would have taken Andre Smith and Oher over Jason Smith and Eugene Monroe. To me, Jason Smith seems like he needs to be in a zone blocking scheme to best suit his abilities, and Monroe just seems soft.

In terms of potential reward, and honestly the draft is one big gamble on a mans potential, I believe the Bengals had quite possibly the best draft. The best pure tackle, a MLB that fell because he doesn't have great underwear speed but dominated at USC and brings a presence and personality to the Bengals defense that they didn't have, Michael Johnson can be a Jevon Kearse/Julian Peppers type pass rusher if he can play up to his physical potential, Chace Coffman is a great pass catching Tight End, and I thought Jonathan Luigs was a very underrated Center going into this draft and has done his fair share of rugged run blocking for McFadden/Jones/Hillis at Arkansas.

 

[Dark Donnie]

Winners and Losers of the draft?

 

[NotFadeAway]

Oh,, and I'd like to pat my Panthers on the back for taking Duke Robinson in the 5th round, which I think will turn out to be one of the biggest steals in this draft. As far as Guards go, Robinson was the best of the bunch and should have been a 2nd round pick. The guy reminds me of Shawn Andrews, and while he does have a bit of an attitude, the Panthers can afford some attitude on the roster. Getting a RG like this was the last piece to the O-Line for the Panthers, and while Keydrick Vincent played well for us, he is 32 and ended the season on IR. I think Robinson has his job by mid-season, and we are young and set at every position for years to come.

The line of Jordan Gross/Travelle Wharton/Ryan Kalil/Duke Robinson/Jeff Otah, I'd put that against any line in the league.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Winners and Losers of the draft?

I'll have my top 5 winners/losers in the draft up a little later tonight.

 

[StorminNorman]

StorminNorman's Winners (I will have full Draft Grades/Analysis soon)

Winners

1. Detroit - Not only did they draft Matthew Stafford, they followed that by taking the best Tight End and Safety in the draft. Detroit needs to start looking towards the future they have with their trinity of Stafford-Smith-Johnson, and Pettigrew is a pick that helps all three of those players. I am confused by their first third round pick (reminds me too much of Dizon), but Zack Follett is a player I love.

2. Giants - It's really not fair. The Giants get arguably the second most polished WR in the draft, a franchise quality left tackle and a redzone threat. I love every pick they made - the only reason I have Detroit ranked higher is that a bad team can always be helped more in the draft than an elite team.

3. Chicago - If anyone thought the Bears mortgaged the future in getting Cutler, they proved them wrong. They had a fantastic draft in spite of the fact they didn't draft until the third round. They scored 3 arguable first day talents in Gilbert, Moore and Iglesais. Marcus Freeman is a linebacker I really like from Ohio State.

Losers
1. Tampa Bay - They picked Josh Freeman. Not only that, they traded up to get Josh Freeman. Not only that, a team wanted to trade up to 19 - and they missed out on such a trade...because they took Josh Freeman. I can understand them taking Freeman, I really can - if you identify a franchise QB, you take him...period. That's not my problem. My problem is that the Tampa Buccaneers front office people are clearly idiots. There is no other way of putting it. Tampa's move indicates they believed Denver would take Josh Freeman. Denver had no interest in Freeman. Hell, after taking Moreno at 12, they had no ability to take Freeman. The funny thing is that I actually like some of their picks like Roy Miller - but such a first round move is so astronomically stupid that it's irrelevant.

2. Cowboys - Raise your hand if you had heard of anyone from their draft class besides Stephen McGee?



That's what I thought.

3. New York Jets - Congrats, you got the Draft's golden child. Where are you going from here? I understand Mark Sanchez has the charisma to make Dan Snyder wet himself - but unless the Jets plan on using that silky smooth tongue to convince Arizona to give them Boldin that's really not going to help much. People want to know why teams bust on QB's? It's because they sell their draft to take a quarterback who has more charisma than he does experience. Sanchez played 16 games in college. 16. And he didn't even play well in all 16. After trading so much for Sanchez, he is under more pressure to start Day 1 than Stafford is - and he is far less prepared to do so. And even if Sanchez was a seasoned veteran...what weapons does he have around him? His running back group consists of a 30 year old holdout and a kick returner. His receivers corps ends at Cotchery.

Sanchez has the tools to be a fantastic QB in this league - but he needs to sit and learn before he does so. The Jets are a team built to win now. By the time Sanchez is ready to win...will parts like Fanica, Jenkins, Jones, etc. still be on the roster?