2009 NFL Draft Thread (aka Excel & Norman's personal b**ch and moan thread)

[BlackLantern]

JaMarcus Russell is fat and overrated....he will crash and burn this year

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I gave the Patriots a B+. That team is going to be scary good next season. I don't think they'll go 16-0, but 14-2/13-2 is possible.

 

[Excel]

Russels weight is irrelvant, outside of Manning and the rookies of 2008, there is not a single good QB in the NFL who didnt sit out atleast the begining of their rookie year.

Excel what do you make of the Pats draft this year?

A. We wont hear many of the names next season outside of Butler, who will probably a be a starter opposite Bodden now that Ellis is gone.

NYS is correct, the Patriots should be freakishly good next season. Brady will have just as good if not better receiving corps in 2009 than in 2007 (Stallworth was nasty, but McD barely payed him). If he is a tad rusty, they have Maroney, and if hes rusty, they have Taylor, Morris, BJGE; old reliable still back there.

On d they added potential pro bowler Leigh Bodden along with Shawn Springs.

Its basically like taking an 11-5 team that no real talented rb or cb and decent rook QB...and giving them Tom Brady, Laurence Maroney, Adalius Thomas, ect.

Scary good...SCARY GOOD! Plus, next year, Randy will hopefully becomes #2 all time in recieving touchdowns; hes just 4 away from T.O.

 

[Excel]

I am just glad this draft is done, 2010 is where the REAL talent is...Jahvid Best....Dez Bryant...Jevean Snead...

*drools*

 

[FaT_tONle]

The "Dallas had a bad draft because I never heard of any of those players" is the stupidest argument I have ever heard...

 

[Excel]

Excels Top 10 Favorite picks of the 2009 NFL Draft

10. Darrius Heyward Bey to Oakland
http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2008-08/41977236.jpg

I dont care how big of a reach it is, you just have to love this pick for the balls it shows and the upside. It goes without saying that Oakland needed a WR, so passing on Crabtree looks ******ed. However, Crabtree is more of go to guy while Oakland needs somebody to stretch the field. They have others guys to go short with. If they get 40 catches from DHB they should be happy, because he is going to average near 20 per catch. Davis recognized the chance to get a WR so fast he doesnt need moves to get open deep, and hes a perfect compliment for is super-ultra-cannon armed QB. This is a team that has 3 starting caliber rb who will combine for 40 carries a game; on atleast 2 occasion a game, look for it play action fake, and bombs away to Heyward Bey! which, given the speed of DHB, arm stregth of Russell, and how good play action should be with them in general seeing as how often theyll run, should make the Raiders more exciting to watch.

9. Brandon Tate to New England

This is imo the steal of the draft. Weed issues wont be a problem in New England. This kid was playing oppo Hakeem Nicks at NC, and had he stayed healthy, likely woulda found himself inthe 1st round. In the 4 games he was able to play this season, he averaged 90 yards per game with 3 touchdowns on 14 catches, good for a whopping 26 yards per reception; including touchdowns of 57, 69, 37, and 32 yards, as well as a 54 yard reverse; this this kid could do well with help from RANDY MOSS and JOEY GALLOWAY? I do too. He is also the greatest return man in his leagues history. It was his knee injury early in week 5 that allowed Hakeem Nicks, who was already having a great season with virtually identical stats to Tate through the 1st 4 weeks, to step up and become the star he became. At just under 6'1 and 190 lbs and running a 40 in the mid 4.4's (rumored, thats after his injury), he isnt big or small but decent size. With Hobbs gone, this kid likely becomes the return man and is a possible future #2 when Galloway leaves. Since most of you have no idea who he is, here is some film on the kid.

[YT]dfVrMnNz6TQ[/YT]

#8. LeSean McCoy to Philadelphia
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/1218/ncf_g_mccoy01_400.jpg

LeSean and DeSean on the same team. Shady McCoy is a Brian Westbrook clone; he is Reggie Bush with less burst but better vision. The best recieving back in this class and moves to kill. Hes a perfect fit for the Philadelpha Eagles offenses; picture Westbrook with more energy. He should be an instant upgrade and provide a spark; he truly has dazzling stop/go & change of direction. He could be lightening in a bottle.

More to come.

 

[StorminNorman]

I'm going to wait and see on the Browns draft. Nothing sexy, and I'm guessing they are still looking to deal Braylon. Upside, they got a young offense around Quinn, and if they can maybe draft a RB next season, the unit may solidify (assuming their picks develop). Downside, I still feel the Browns secondary is weak and our LBs don't support the 3-4 yet.

I disagree. I really love what the Browns did. Alex Mack is a great center prospect and has received comparisons to Bruce Matthews. The receiver situation was addressed brilliantly with the addition of Robinski (think Eddie Royal type impact) and Massaqoui. They picked up to very intriguing linebacker prospects - the guy from Hawaii was a beast in the backfield and the USC backer can play all three positions and has wrestling in his background. Scott Wright described Coye Francis as good as any corner this side of Malcolm Jenkins during the Senior Bowl while he watched him live, and James Davis was projected to be a first round running back at the start of his season - his last year at Clemson was a chaotic one for everyone involved, he has the talent to be worth much more than his pick. On top of that, however, you have three people that Mangini knows well. Mangini loves Ratliff (which allows them to move Anderson with no fear) and they got a starting safety as well.

Damn Bucs trade up to get Josh (bust) Freeman

If Freeman doesn't play a down during his rookie year, he may be alright.

Sanchez is exactly what New York needed. Though right now Beanie Wells should be the runaway fave for o rookie of the year, Sanchez should do a decent job should he be their starter.

Beanie Wells will touch the ball less than Knowshon.

And you dont want your 78 million dollar mans first NFL experiece to be going 1-15. If the first thing he learns is to suck, thats what hell do. Sitting him a year so he comes in with a better team around him ala Culpepper in Minnesota and letting him learn the offense so hes more mature ala Aaron Rodgers is no doubt the best option for Stafford.

Why not? Peyton went 3-13 his first year. Stafford was able to pick up a Pro Style offense and played against SEC competition as a true freshman - while the SEC is not the NFL, the defensive schemes are very similiar. Calvin Johnson and Brandon Pettigrew are also better targets than anyone he ever had his freshman year as well.

If Stafford is the best QB in the pre season, he should be starting against the Saints.

Say what you want about JaMarcus Russel, but the only reason he threw just 8 interceptions last season was probably because he barely played as a rookie, so when he came in he knew what NOT to do. Same thing with Jay Cutler, Donovan Mcnabb, Daunte Culpepper, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger. In the NFL, you need to learn what NOT to do before you can learn what TO do. For young QB's, punts and incompletions are ok. INTERCEPTIONS are what KILL them, and you can bet that if Stafford starts from day one, he will be just the leatest 1st qb to spend the season throwing twice as many ints as touchdown. Unless its a freakishly mature qb ala Manning or Ryan, you dont want them learning the ropes, both good and bad, through personal experience. When all they learn is bad because their team sucks, thats how you get guys like David Carr or Joey Harrington: guys who cant shake the bust title and never recover. Thats the only reason I think Matt Leinart may have some sort of NFL future, or people like Brady Quinn still have bright futures.

What not to do - throw interceptions. What to do - throw to Calvin Johnson. He knows this.

If the team is even close to as bad as they were last year,

They aren't.

they should just ride Culpepper all season. Rookies with that much hype need some sort of initial succeed; if they dont find it the media will eat them alive, espec. a kid like Stafford. You can tell from interviews that, while he seems self aware and bright enough, hes been treated like the golden boy his whole life. If he boes out and sucks initally and gets the media al over his ass; starts hearing the b word in his first season (which WILL happen if he starts from day 1, baring some miracle turn around for Detroits entire team), he will not ever recover; he will Joey Harrington, David Carr, Alex Smith jr.

I disagree entirely.

Russels weight is irrelvant, outside of Manning and the rookies of 2008, there is not a single good QB in the NFL who didnt sit out atleast the begining of their rookie year.

Roethlisberger played the second game of the season.

Its basically like taking an 11-5 team that no real talented rb or cb and decent rook QB...and giving them Tom Brady, Laurence Maroney, Adalius Thomas, ect.

Only one of those players are going to be nearly as good as you think.]

The "Dallas had a bad draft because I never heard of any of those players" is the stupidest argument I have ever heard...

Not when I have spent a good deal of time evaluating this draft. I can tell you plenty about names like Zack Follett (7th round player), Chris Baker (not drafted), Robert Francois (not drafted), etc. When I look at the players the Cowboys drafted, I see a LOT of projects and I don't see anyone that can help the team in 2009.

 

[Excel]

Beanie Wells will touch the ball less than Knowshon.

1. Peyton Hillis 2. Ryan Torrain 3. Selvin Young 4. LaMont Jordan. 5. Correll Buckhalter 6. JJ Arington

Hillis, Torrain, Young, and possibly Buckhalter are all going to be on the team next season, and all will take carries from Moreno. McDaniels loves the rb by comittee, it is true thats more efficient. Plus, Moreno-when he runs the ball-is nothing but Laurence Maroney - McDs 1st round draft pick in NE-with less straight speed. Both rely on elite change of direction and good vision to do what they do. How often to did Maroney play in NE, even when he would find susccess?

Please. Knowshon is gonna have a 160-175 carries rookie year, prob, 4.6-4.7 pc for max total of 850 yards with probably a handful of touchdowns.

Beanie Wells instantly becomes the main running back. The Cards ran it 307 times last year between their 3 guys, none of which were any good. Wells is good. He has more burst than any of them and will make excellent use of the lanes he'll see thanks to having Fitz, Boldin, Breast as wr's. Wells should see 225-240 carries, I give 4.3-4.4 a pop; I would be surprise with anything under 1000 yards.

Unlike Moreno, Wells it the main RUNNING back.

Why not? Peyton went 3-13 his first year. Stafford was able to pick up a Pro Style offense and played against SEC competition as a true freshman - while the SEC is not the NFL, the defensive schemes are very similiar. Calvin Johnson and Brandon Pettigrew are also better targets than anyone he ever had his freshman year as well.

If Peyton Manning is the only good comparison you can find, your arguments weakness speaks for itself. Manning was incredibly mature and smart, it was obvious from listening to him. He lived and breathed football. Stafford isnt like this, and most here will agree with me. He is not as mature or NEARLY as smart as Manning was, that really isnt arguable.

Plus, though Peyton went 3-13, he threw 26 touchdowns. Stafford is not pro-ready enough to do that.

If Stafford is the best QB in the pre season, he should be starting against the Saints.

Doubtful. I doubt he starts. Fisher made Young sit out, that coach in Denver is gonna do the same thing is mentor did.

What not to do - throw interceptions. What to do - throw to Calvin Johnson. He knows this.

Watch their tape last year; the majority of their int. were headed Calvins way. Teams catch onto the fact that hes throwing to one person and put multiple defenders on him.

They aren't.

That isnt saying much at all. I would be surprised if they won anything more than 5 games.

I disagree entirely.

How can you possibly disagree? With the exception of PEYTON MANNING and the 2008 rookie flukes, there is a long history of QB's who sit the first few weeks or even 1st full year finding much more success than those thrust into immeadietly.

Roethlisberger played the second game of the season.

He had a much better running game and defense than the Lions do. He wasnt asked to throw the ball nearly as much as the Lions QB will likely have to do. Also, again, Roethlisberger was clearly one of the more mature and NFL ready qbs in recent years. Stafford isnt even considered this by most scouts in his class, that would be Sanchez.

Only one of those players are going to be nearly as good as you think.

Says the person comparing Matthew Stafford to Peyton Manning.

 

[StorminNorman]

I agree with pretty much everything you've written here. The Lions took Levy in the 3rd round because he'll be a MLB who hits like a truck. I dont see the Jordon Dizon comparison. Dizon is undersized, and although he has a big heart, isnt a punishing type LB.

Dizon is stouter than than Levy. Levy just does not seem like an inside backer to me. It sounds like his greatest asset is rushing the passer (a skill that instantly makes him worthy of the selection), I would rather have Follett at Mike and use Levy as a situational pass rusher.

 

[Immortalfire]

Stafford was on Letterman a bit ago, read the top ten.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Not when I have spent a good deal of time evaluating this draft. I can tell you plenty about names like Zack Follett (7th round player), Chris Baker (not drafted), Robert Francois (not drafted), etc. When I look at the players the Cowboys drafted, I see a LOT of projects and I don't see anyone that can help the team in 2009.

I looked over their draft picks. The only one they drafted that could have an impact is Victor Butler. The rest I see are just there for depth. I've already posted my Winners/Losers. I'll post my grades up possibly tonight.

 

[Go Web Go!]

Don't know whether someone has posted this yet, but here's Michael Crabtree upon learning the Raiders selected Bey at #7:

 

[StorminNorman]

1. Peyton Hillis 2. Ryan Torrain 3. Selvin Young 4. LaMont Jordan. 5. Correll Buckhalter 6. JJ Arington

Half those names won't make the roster. All of them will be behind Knowshon on the depth chart. With Kyle Orton as the QB, the Broncos are going to run the ball more than they would have under Cutler - McDaniels selecting Knowshon this high makes a statement about the emphasis McDaniels will place on the urnning game.

Hillis, Torrain, Young, and possibly Buckhalter are all going to be on the team next season, and all will take carries from Moreno. McDaniels loves the rb by comittee, it is true thats more efficient. Plus, Moreno-when he runs the ball-is nothing but Laurence Maroney - McDs 1st round draft pick in NE-with less straight speed. Both rely on elite change of direction and good vision to do what they do. How often to did Maroney play in NE, even when he would find susccess?

Moreno is a lot better than Maroney coming out of college. Moreno is far more mature, more elusive and is a better pass catcher and blcoker. He also isn't injury prone.

Please. Knowshon is gonna have a 160-175 carries rookie year, prob, 4.6-4.7 pc for max total of 850 yards with probably a handful of touchdowns.

Moreno will score double digit TD's and will be a thousand yard back.

Beanie Wells instantly becomes the main running back. The Cards ran it 307 times last year between their 3 guys, none of which were any good. Wells is good. He has more burst than any of them and will make excellent use of the lanes he'll see thanks to having Fitz, Boldin, Breast as wr's. Wells should see 225-240 carries, I give 4.3-4.4 a pop; I would be surprise with anything under 1000 yards.

Of course you would be.

Unlike Moreno, Wells it the main RUNNING back.

I disagree. Moreno is Denver's main running back - he is vastly supperior than everyone on the roster.

If Peyton Manning is the only good comparison you can find, your arguments weakness speaks for itself. Manning was incredibly mature and smart, it was obvious from listening to him. He lived and breathed football. Stafford isnt like this, and most here will agree with me. He is not as mature or NEARLY as smart as Manning was, that really isnt arguable.

Except you are wrong. Stafford's intelligence was the number one reason Schwartz loved him. Stafford can recite almost every throw he has ever made. His performance breaking down plays on the black board was described as flawless and one of the best coaches has ever seen. The guy picked up Georgia's Pro Style offense and was able to call audibles the very first game of his collegiate career as a true freshman. Stafford lives football - just like Manning.

Plus, though Peyton went 3-13, he threw 26 touchdowns. Stafford is not pro-ready enough to do that.

Again, I quite simply disagree. I think Stafford is more mature, physically, than Manning was.

Doubtful. I doubt he starts. Fisher made Young sit out, that coach in Denver is gonna do the same thing is mentor did.

You mean Detroit and I disagree. For one, you can't compare Vince Young - a player whose biggest questions have always been about mental toughness and intelligence - to Matthew Stafford.

Watch their tape last year; the majority of their int. were headed Calvins way. Teams catch onto the fact that hes throwing to one person and put multiple defenders on him.

Which is why the Pettigrew pick is so great. Which is why its great they signed one of the best receiving backs in Maurice Morris. Which is why it's great they added Bryant Johnson and Ronald Curry.

That isnt saying much at all. I would be surprised if they won anything more than 5 games.

I like the Lions more htan that.

How can you possibly disagree? With the exception of PEYTON MANNING and the 2008 rookie flukes, there is a long history of QB's who sit the first few weeks or even 1st full year finding much more success than those thrust into immeadietly.

I have compared Stafford to Manning from day one, have I not?

He had a much better running game and defense than the Lions do. He wasnt asked to throw the ball nearly as much as the Lions QB will likely have to do. Also, again, Roethlisberger was clearly one of the more mature and NFL ready qbs in recent years. Stafford isnt even considered this by most scouts in his class, that would be Sanchez.

Most scouts didnt' have Roethlisberger ranked nearly as high as he ended up being. The scouts that believe Sanchez is more mature than Sanchez are, quite simply wrong. Sanchez rose up boards thanks to his charisma - there is a reason that when all there was to analyise was game tape and actual performance, Stafford was seen as the favorite to go number 1 and why Sanchez was expected to be a later first round pick.

Says the person comparing Matthew Stafford to Peyton Manning.

The great thing is that Stafford will have the ability to solidify my belief on the field.

 

[Excel]

Half those names won't make the roster. All of them will be behind Knowshon on the depth chart. With Kyle Orton as the QB, the Broncos are going to run the ball more than they would have under Cutler - McDaniels selecting Knowshon this high makes a statement about the emphasis McDaniels will place on the urnning game.

I dont disagree; Knowshon will get the most carries. I just dont think you understand that that isnt saying anything. Pats had 6th best running game in NFL last year; leading rusher at 700 yards. McD doesnt do 1000 yard rushers; he has multiple 600-700 yarders; it doesnt matter how talented they are.

Moreno is a lot better than Maroney coming out of college. Moreno is far more mature, more elusive and is a better pass catcher and blcoker. He also isn't injury prone.

Moreno was better in college than Maroney was, I wont disagree. Catching and blocking is irrelevant for our argumen. Maturity I dunno; Maroney recieved intensly high praise from Bill when he was drafted and Bills pretty good at getting quality characters. As far as NFL ready, please. Maroney is significantly faster than Moreno with better change of direction, hes just less instinctive. Moreno is more complete, but from a running the ball stand oint, Maroney imo was better prepared.

The dif. between 2 is the situation. Maroney came being the perfect counter to Corey Dillon on a team with Brady, who had just the NFL in passing. Moreno goes to a team with a handful fo rbs he'll split time, even if he gets the majority of it; his team has a worse passing game so hell face tougher defenses.

Moreno will score double digit TD's and will be a thousand yard back.

Just like McFadden would, right?

Ive said this all along the past few months-who succeeds and who fails as rookie is almost entirely dependent on the situation they are put into.

Moreno is NOT in a situation to get 1,00 yards. Hell need a ypc in the high 5's to do that. As far as double digit touchdown, get outta here. Moreno is gonna have the same role Maroney had when he was healthy: Moreno is gonna be on the ones they use to get it own the field; theyll have others to punch it in.

The only way Moreno is a 1000 yard rusher as rook is all the other guys get hurt.

Of course you would be.

Im interested to hear why you disagree. You seem to think McD is randomally going to make Moreno the feature back despite countless rbs on their roster, yet Arizona, who only has Hightower, wont do this with Wells?

I disagree. Moreno is Denver's main running back - he is vastly supperior than everyone on the roster.

That doesnt matter, hes gonna split time. Maroney is 5x as talented as Sammy Morris or LaMont Jordan-when both or all 3 were healthy the past 2 years, they split time.

Except you are wrong. Stafford's intelligence was the number one reason Schwartz loved him. Stafford can recite almost every throw he has ever made. His performance breaking down plays on the black board was described as flawless and one of the best coaches has ever seen. The guy picked up Georgia's Pro Style offense and was able to call audibles the very first game of his collegiate career as a true freshman.

Nobody is comparable to Manning in terms of being NFL ready, nobody is. Stafford isnt even close to Matt Ryan.

Stafford lives football - just like Manning.

Please, Manning as a rookie was all about football. Staffords abot getting dressed up by Mario Sharapova and going on Letterman.

Again, I quite simply disagree. I think Stafford is more mature, physically, than Manning was.

Physically doesnt mean ****; EVERYBODY in the 1st 2 rounds in physicallty ready, its about being ready MENTALLY. QBs ready from day 1 are few and far between and the teams they go to all share common things: strong olines, strong running games, strong defenses; Detroit has none of those.

You mean Detroit and I disagree. For one, you can't compare Vince Young - a player whose biggest questions have always been about mental toughness and intelligence - to Matthew Stafford.

Young to Stafford isnt as ridiculous as Stafford to Manning. Besides, you call Staff Captain Comeback, what was Vince Young?

Which is why the Pettigrew pick is so great. Which is why its great they signed one of the best receiving backs in Maurice Morris. Which is why it's great they added Bryant Johnson and Ronald Curry.

Pettigrew is good. The others?

I

like the Lions more htan that.

Maybe if Culpepper plays.

I have compared Stafford to Manning from day one, have I not?

I honestly dont know so I guess you have, but if so that comparison is absolutley ridiculous.

The great thing is that Stafford will have the ability to solidify my belief on the field

We'll see. Every single analysts I have heard talk about has said he should sit.

Don't know whether someone has posted this yet, but here's Michael Crabtree upon learning the Raiders selected Bey at #7:

Erin Andrews said that Crabs Dad, upon learing Crabs wasnt going there, said "Phew!" with a sigh of relief

 

[Holiday]

How did everyone come out with their mock drafts? Most of the "experts" were on single digits.

 

[StorminNorman]

I dont disagree; Knowshon will get the most carries. I just dont think you understand that that isnt saying anything. Pats had 6th best running game in NFL last year; leading rusher at 700 yards. McD doesnt do 1000 yard rushers; he has multiple 600-700 yarders; it doesnt matter how talented they are.

At the end of the season - we will see who has more carries, Knowshon or Beanie. I bet on Knowshon.

Moreno was better in college than Maroney was, I wont disagree. Catching and blocking is irrelevant for our argumen. Maturity I dunno; Maroney recieved intensly high praise from Bill when he was drafted and Bills pretty good at getting quality characters. As far as NFL ready, please. Maroney is significantly faster than Moreno with better change of direction, hes just less instinctive. Moreno is more complete, but from a running the ball stand oint, Maroney imo was better prepared.

Was Bill going to do anything but praise his draft pick? Instincts > 40 time.

The dif. between 2 is the situation. Maroney came being the perfect counter to Corey Dillon on a team with Brady, who had just the NFL in passing. Moreno goes to a team with a handful fo rbs he'll split time, even if he gets the majority of it; his team has a worse passing game so hell face tougher defenses.

I really don't think Moreno will split nearly as much time as you think. Moreno will be the clear cut number one running back - he was drafted to be THE running back, not a member of a rotation.

Just like McFadden would, right?

We have both been wrong about running backs.

Ive said this all along the past few months-who succeeds and who fails as rookie is almost entirely dependent on the situation they are put into.

Moreno is NOT in a situation to get 1,00 yards. Hell need a ypc in the high 5's to do that. As far as double digit touchdown, get outta here. Moreno is gonna have the same role Maroney had when he was healthy: Moreno is gonna be on the ones they use to get it own the field; theyll have others to punch it in.

The only way Moreno is a 1000 yard rusher as rook is all the other guys get hurt.

I disagree. I really do. Moreno will get fed the ball - McDaniels is not going to hand the ball off to Cornell Buckhalter with Moreno on the roster. McDaniels signed all those running backs before he recieved an extra first round pick and when they had a Pro Bowl QB. McDaniels didn't have the option to draft a running back in the first round when he signed Jordan and Buckhalter - thanks to the Cutler trade he did.

Again, you don't draft a running back at 12 if you don't plan on making him the feature back. He will not be one of many.

Im interested to hear why you disagree. You seem to think McD is randomally going to make Moreno the feature back despite countless rbs on their roster, yet Arizona, who only has Hightower, wont do this with Wells?

I think McDaniels is going to realize that handing the ball off to Moreno is a better idea than handing it off to Peyton Hillis. I don't think McDaniels is so idiotic to stubornly stick to the same philosophy he used in New England when he has a different roster.

That doesnt matter, hes gonna split time. Maroney is 5x as talented as Sammy Morris or LaMont Jordan-when both or all 3 were healthy the past 2 years, they split time.

Maroney also hasn't been has productive as either Sammy Morris or LaMont Jordan. Even better yet is the fact that the year Maroney and Morris were both healthy (2007) Maroney had 100 more touches than Morris did. Maroney had more attempts than the next three running backs.

Nobody is comparable to Manning in terms of being NFL ready, nobody is. Stafford isnt even close to Matt Ryan.

We disagree.

Please, Manning as a rookie was all about football. Staffords abot getting dressed up by Mario Sharapova and going on Letterman.

This isn't really worth a retort.

Physically doesnt mean ****; EVERYBODY in the 1st 2 rounds in physicallty ready, its about being ready MENTALLY. QBs ready from day 1 are few and far between and the teams they go to all share common things: strong olines, strong running games, strong defenses; Detroit has none of those.

And I believe Stafford is mentally ready. Again, he was mentally ready to go from high school football to the SEC from day one. He had a control of the playbook and the team his first start. And that was when he was 18 years old. The Lions have a strong running game, and more importantly he has two physical freaks in Brandon Pettigrew and Calvin Johnson.

Young to Stafford isnt as ridiculous as Stafford to Manning. Besides, you call Staff Captain Comeback, what was Vince Young?

Vince Young was an amazing college QB...whose maturity and intelligence was always questioned. No one credible can question Stafford intelligence, Staffords maturity or Stafford's dedication to the game.

Maybe if Culpepper plays.

If Dante is the best QB in the Pre Season - he should play. I don't think he will be.

I honestly dont know so I guess you have, but if so that comparison is absolutley ridiculous.

Why? Because you say so? Stafford is very similar to Manning. From his intelligence, from his ability to learn a play book, from his ability to read a defense, from his maturity, from the talent he played against in college. Stafford's ceiling is higher than Manning's while Peyton's floor was higher. Stafford is more physically gifted than Peyton - if he is able to match Peyton's brains, he will be a better QB.

 

[StorminNorman]

I got 7 players to the proper team (3 in the right spot)

NYS also got 7 players to the proper team (6 in the proper spot).

 

[Excel]

At the end of the season - we will see who has more carries, Knowshon or Beanie. I bet on Knowshon.

You got yourself a bet. I have Wells.

Was Bill going to do anything but praise his draft pick?

No, but the fact the Pats drafted ought to say something.

Instincts > 40 time.

Maroney had good instincts, he just also had a good 40. Moreno had excellent instincts with a garbage 40 time.

I really don't think Moreno will split nearly as much time as you think. Moreno will be the clear cut number one running back - he was drafted to be THE running back, not a member of a rotation.

And the Pats passed on Santonio Holmes, DeAngelou Williams, Addai, ect. to take Maroney. It doesnt matter.

I disagree. I really do. Moreno will get fed the ball - McDaniels is not going to hand the ball off to Cornell Buckhalter with Moreno on the roster. McDaniels signed all those running backs before he recieved an extra first round pick and when they had a Pro Bowl QB. McDaniels didn't have the option to draft a running back in the first round when he signed Jordan and Buckhalter - thanks to the Cutler trade he did.

I dont think you understand. Week 1 this year. Maroney's 1st 3 carries for 3 yards, 9 yards, and 9 yards. 22 on 3. Ok, hes having success. McD decides to take him out for just about an entire quarter and put in Sammy Morris. Success is borderline irrelvant. Maroney wasnt able to put up big plays and 100 yard games-aka show what he could do-until the others were injured. Unfortunately, I bet he does the same thing with Moreno.

Something like Moreno-40% of the carries, Hillis/Young 40%, Young/whoever the other 20%.

Again, you don't draft a running back at 12 if you don't plan on making him the feature back. He will not be one of many.

We'll see. McD would.

I think McDaniels is going to realize that handing the ball off to Moreno is a better idea than handing it off to Peyton Hillis. I don't think McDaniels is so idiotic to stubornly stick to the same philosophy he used in New England when he has a different roster.

And youd think in games like this year against the Jets when Sammy Morriss 1st 5 carries go for negative yards, hed put somebody else in. Did he? Youd think when Maroney averaged 29 yards a catch, theyd stick him more often on recieving plays. Did he? Why do you think I'm happy for Maroney now that McDaniels is out? Hes about efficiency, not #'s.

McD used Maroney to get 5 man fronts and 8 in the box; the film on NFL.com proves it; he was almost like a huge distraction. I would bet he has similar plans for Moreno.

Maroney also hasn't been has productive as either Sammy Morris or LaMont Jordan.

When given the ball consistantly, Maroney was mure more productive last year. This year, Maroney had a stellar week 1 but busted his collarbone in 1st quarter of week 2.

Even better yet is the fact that the year Maroney and Morris were both healthy (2007) Maroney had 100 more touches than Morris did.

Slammin Sammy only played in 6 games in 2007. They only played together weeks 1-3; Lomo pulled his groin and sat weeks 4-6, Morris destroyed pec week 6 vs. Dallas. But, in the 1st 3 weeks, Maroney had 54 carries for 254 yards (4.7 ypc) carries to Morris's 33 carries for 151 yards (4.5 ypc). Or per game, Maroney averaged 18 carries to Morris's twelve; or Lomo got 3 carries for every 2 Morris got. That was with 2 guys; it will be worse for Moreno as they have more backs.

Why? Because you say so? Stafford is very similar to Manning. From his intelligence, from his ability to learn a play book, from his ability to read a defense, from his maturity, from the talent he played against in college. Stafford's ceiling is higher than Manning's while Peyton's floor was higher. Stafford is more physically gifted than Peyton - if he is able to match Peyton's brains, he will be a better QB.

I think I speak for everybody when I say I have serious doubts that Stafford can match Peytons brains.

 

[StorminNorman]

You got yourself a bet. I have Wells.

No, but the fact the Pats drafted ought to say something.

The Patriots haven't been flawless in their draft.

Maroney had good instincts, he just also had a good 40. Moreno had excellent instincts with a garbage 40 time.

Moreno out ran all of LSU's team last year - I place a higher emphasis in game speed than 40 yard times ran in shorts.

And the Pats passed on Santonio Holmes, DeAngelou Williams, Addai, ect. to take Maroney. It doesnt matter.

And they were wrong to do so.

I dont think you understand. Week 1 this year. Maroney's 1st 3 carries for 3 yards, 9 yards, and 9 yards. 22 on 3. Ok, hes having success. McD decides to take him out for just about an entire quarter and put in Sammy Morris. Success is borderline irrelvant. Maroney wasnt able to put up big plays and 100 yard games-aka show what he could do-until the others were injured. Unfortunately, I bet he does the same thing with Moreno.

Again, McDaniels wouldn't of drafted Moreno if he planned to use Moreno as a rotational back. McDaniels wouldn't of drafted Moreno at 12 if he didn't think he was better than Maroney.

Something like Moreno-40% of the carries, Hillis/Young 40%, Young/whoever the other 20%.

I expect (barring injury) 60% Moreno, 40% everyone else.

We'll see. McD would.

You must not think much of McD.

And youd think in games like this year against the Jets when Sammy Morriss 1st 5 carries go for negative yards, hed put somebody else in. Did he? Youd think when Maroney averaged 29 yards a catch, theyd stick him more often on recieving plays. Did he? Why do you think I'm happy for Maroney now that McDaniels is out? Hes about efficiency, not #'s.

McD used Maroney to get 5 man fronts and 8 in the box; the film on NFL.com proves it; he was almost like a huge distraction. I would bet he has similar plans for Moreno.

Again, you can't simply look at how McDaniels handled the Patriots and assume he will use the same exact strategy in Denver. Again, the pick of Moreno indicates a change in strategy.

Slammin Sammy only played in 6 games in 2007. They only played together weeks 1-3; Lomo pulled his groin and sat weeks 4-6, Morris destroyed pec week 6 vs. Dallas. But, in the 1st 3 weeks, Maroney had 54 carries for 254 yards (4.7 ypc) carries to Morris's 33 carries for 151 yards (4.5 ypc). Or per game, Maroney averaged 18 carries to Morris's twelve; or Lomo got 3 carries for every 2 Morris got. That was with 2 guys; it will be worse for Moreno as they have more backs.

Again...Maroney had more carries than the next 3 running backs on the roster combined.

I think I speak for everybody when I say I have serious doubts that Stafford can match Peytons brains.

Luckily being correct has little to do with agreeing to popular opinion.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I don't know why anyone would think that Wells would have more carries on a pass happy team. The Broncos lost Cutler and will probably rely on the running game more.

 

[Dark Donnie]

The "Dallas had a bad draft because I never heard of any of those players" is the stupidest argument I have ever heard...

They didn't have a good draft, it's really that simple. Even so called experts like Kiper gave them a D.

Spoiler

Green Bay Packers: GRADE: A
I love what this team did to solidify its shaky defense in the first two picks alone, with the selection of two excellent players in defensive tackle B.J. Raji and outside linebacker Clay Matthews. Tackle T.J. Lang was a good pickup for the offensive line, while Quinn Johnson could be a bruising lead fullback in the league. Sixth-round pick Brandon Underwood could make this team and give the Packers depth as a backup.

New York Jets: GRADE: A-
The motto of the Jets' draft was quality over quantity. Mark Sanchez's selection made this team's draft because he's a franchise-maker. New coach Rex Ryan likes his defense, so the organization felt it could focus on the offense in his first draft. The Jets picked up Iowa running back Shonn Greene, who will fit into the rotation with Leon Washington and Thomas Jones. Guard Matthew Slauson was an OK pick in the sixth round, but the key to this draft is up top with Greene and Sanchez.

Arizona Cardinals: GRADE: B+
Chris Wells was a major acquisition for the Cardinals in the first round of this draft. He was a bargain for a team that was in dire need of a running back to rotate in with second-year back Tim Hightower. Wells gives this team the home run threat that the running game was sorely lacking last season. In addition to Wells, I liked the Cody Brown pick in the second round because he should be a good 3-4 rushing end in the Cardinals' system. Bringing in LSU offensive lineman Herman Johnson in the fifth round and Illinois defensive end Will Davis in the sixth were good pickups for this organization. While I thought Johnson was a bit overrated, he is huge and will give the line a big presence when he's on the field.

Buffalo Bills: GRADE: B+
Aaron Maybin was the pass-rusher this team needed to anchor the defensive line. On the other side of the line, the selections of center Eric Wood and guard Andrew Levitre in the second round were excellent picks. Wood is a very good center and Levitre very well may be the best guard in this draft. Also, Jairus Byrd's ball skills could help him become a very good nickelback in this league. They got the tight end they needed in Shawn Nelson to give this offense another weapon. The reason this team didn't receive an A is because it didn't get a right or a left tackle, which I thought was a need with the trade of offensive tackle Jason Peters.

Houston Texans: GRADE: B+
This was a very productive draft, as the Texans' first five picks (Brian Cushing, Connor Barwin, Antoine Caldwell, Glover Quin and Anthony Hill) will all contribute quickly. These are solid football players and I really like the Barwin pick. Look for sixth-rounder Brice McCain and seventh-round selection Troy Nolan to also compete for playing time.


New England Patriots: GRADE: B+

You have to give the Patriots credit for acquiring even more picks for next year's draft. Safety Patrick Chung, defensive tackle Ron Brace and cornerback Darius Butler were all good selections in the second round, although offensive tackle Sebastian Vollmer was a reach. Wide receiver Brandon Tate was a decent third-round pick and I really like the sixth-round selection of Jacob Ingram, the best long snapper in the draft.

San Francisco 49ers: GRADE: B+
Obviously the 49ers hit the jackpot with wide receiver Michael Crabtree falling to them at No. 10. Running back Glen Coffee gives the 49ers a nice one-two punch with Frank Gore. Getting inside linebacker Scott McKillop in the fifth round was a steal. Bear Pascoe is one of the best blocking tight ends in the draft, and the two LSU kids (Curtis Taylor and Ricky Jean-Francois) were great pickups in the seventh round.

Atlanta Falcons: GRADE: B
The Falcons did a good job early with the Peria Jerry pick in the first round and the selection of safety William Moore in the second. I really like the Moore pick because if he is able to get healthy, he could be one of the top steals of this draft. He has a tremendous amount of talent and could be a superstar for this franchise. Overall, the Falcons did a nice job for the second year in a row.
Baltimore Ravens: GRADE: B
First-round selection Michael Oher gives this team great flexibility on the offensive line because he can play right or left tackle for the Ravens. Second-round pick Paul Kruger has the ability to play immediately in this league and may push for ample playing time. Also, Lardarius Webb is a little light at around 180 pounds, but with the help of an experienced safety to support him, he can definitely play cornerback in this league. I love the fifth-round selection of inside linebacker Jason Phillips. He's going to fit in very well with this talented group of linebackers.

Chicago Bears: GRADE: B
I think Jarron Gilbert is one of the steals of the draft. Wide receiver Juaquin Iglesias was a good pick, as were cornerback D.J. Moore and wide receiver Johnny Knox. Seventh-round pick Derek Kinder could turn out to be quite a sleeper if he's able to return to his strong level of play before his injury a couple of years ago.

Cincinnati Bengals: GRADE: B
The Bengals had a lot of picks and they did a good job getting good quality with their quantity. Andre Smith, Rey Maualuga and Michael Johnson are great ways to start a draft for any team. These guys could fill big holes for the Bengals. The fourth-round selection of offensive lineman Jonathan Luigs was a little high, but it wasn't crazy. The late-round picks weren't anything to write home about, but they did a good job of getting strength in numbers and getting some depth for their team.

New York Giants: GRADE: B
The selection of first-round wide receiver Hakeem Nicks could be a good one, but he really needs to keep his weight up to make an impact in the NFL. I like the selection of offensive tackle William Beatty in the second round and wide receiver Ramses Barden in the third round. They made some good selections late in the draft with running back Andre Brown in the fourth and the two defensive backs in the sixth and seventh rounds: DeAndre Wright and Stoney Woodson.

Pittsburgh Steelers: GRADE: B
First-round selection Evander Hood was a good pick because he should fit in well as a defensive tackle in the Steelers' system. I love third-round wide receiver Mike Wallace's speed. Cornerback Joe Burnett and running back Frank Summers were good selections in the fifth round. Defensive tackle Ra'Shon Harris could be a steal out of the sixth round.

Seattle Seahawks: GRADE: B
The Seahawks passed on Sanchez to get Aaron Curry, and while I don't agree with the pick, it's not a bad pick for the Hawks, especially since Curry was the No. 1 player on my board. Max Unger is an excellent fit for this offensive line and wide receiver Deon Butler reminds me of Bobby Engram. I don't understand the Mike Teel pick in the sixth round because there were better quarterbacks out there, but the selection of safety Courtney Greene in the seventh round was a great selection.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers: GRADE: B
The Bucs could've stayed where they were and still gotten Josh Freeman, so I don't understand the decision to trade up for him. He has a lot of upside, but he's a risk/reward type of player because he isn't as polished as some of the other top quarterbacks in this draft. The Bucs made some very solid picks throughout the draft, including defensive end Kyle Moore in the fourth round and wide receiver Sammie Stroughter in the final round.

Cleveland Browns: GRADE: B-
Alex Mack was a good pick at No. 21 and Mohamed Massaquoi was a very good pickup in the second round. I think fellow second-rounder David Veikune was a bit of a reach in that round, but not enough of one to seriously dent the Browns' grade. They didn't get a great receiver in Brian Robiskie in the second round, but he's polished enough as a rookie that he could be a solid possession guy for this franchise.

Detroit Lions: GRADE: B-
Matthew Stafford was what this team needed, but fellow first-rounder Brandon Pettigrew was a reach at No. 21. Third-round pick DeAndre Levy was a little bit of a reach, but a good pick. Selecting Derrick Williams in the third round was a good move. The best late-round pick for this team was seventh-rounder Zach Follett out of California. The Lions should've gotten a left tackle at some point since that is an obvious need right now, particularly with their current quarterback situation.



Philadelphia Eagles: GRADE: B-
Wide receiver Jeremy Maclin was a good pick, but he needs to work on his route running to be a consistent threat in the NFL. Running back LeSean McCoy was a good selection in the second round and so was tight end Cornelius Ingram in the fifth round. The fifth round was a good round for the Eagles, who also picked up cornerback Victor Harris and offensive tackle Fenuki Tupou.



Indianapolis Colts: GRADE: C+
Donald Brown is a good player but kind of a luxury pick, which isn't a knock on it because running back Joseph Addai has had some injury issues as of late. Fili Moala and Jerraud Powers were taken a little high, though. Terrance Taylor is a good pick in the fourth round because he could jump into the Colts' rotation.

Jacksonville Jaguars: GRADE: C+
I understand the Jaguars felt that offensive line was a need, but I felt picking Eben Britton that early in the second round was a reach, but not nearly as big of a reach as cornerback Derek Cox in the third round. The selections of Mike Thomas and Jarrett Dillard in the fourth and fifth rounds were good ones and I really like the seventh-round selections of Rashad Jennings and Tiquan Underwood. Honestly, the late-round selections are what saved the Jaguars' grade.

Minnesota Vikings: GRADE: C+
If they can keep wide receiver Percy Harvin focused and maximize his potential, then taking him at No. 22 could end up being a good selection. The only problem is the fact that he has some character question marks surrounding him, but there's no questioning his talent. Third-round selection Asher Allen is a good pick, inside linebacker Jasper Brinkley could be a good fit and seventh-rounder Jamarca Sanford is a good player.

Tennessee Titans: GRADE: C+
Wide receiver Kenny Britt was a good selection in the first round. Defensive tackle Sen'Derrick Marks was a bit overhyped, but he wasn't a bad reach at No. 62. I love the selection of tight end Jared Cook. Troy Kropog was a little bit of a reach in the fourth round, but he was a good player at Tulane.

Washington Redskins: GRADE: C+
Brian Orakpo fell into their laps and he gives them the pass-rushing presence they haven't had since Dexter Manley. Kevin Barnes is a decent third-round pick. Robert Henson is a decent late-round pick at linebacker.

Carolina Panthers: GRADE: C
They gave up next year's first-round pick to get Florida State defensive end Everette Brown, which I really don't like. Brown is a fine player and could make an impact for this team, but I believe that a first-round pick is too steep a price to pay. None of the players they selected in this draft have great potential. Sherrod Martin and Corvey Irvin have the ability to be starters in this league and running back Mike Goodson could be a situational back, but none of the Panthers' picks really stand out.

Denver Broncos: GRADE: C
Knowshon Moreno is a good running back and Robert Ayers has excellent ability. Alphonso Smith was one of my favorite defensive players to watch in college, but I don't agree with trading a future No. 1 pick for the rights to pick him. Richard Quinn was selected a little too high for a one-dimensional blocking tight end. David Bruton is an OK player and so is Seth Olsen.

New Orleans Saints: GRADE: C
First-round selection Malcolm Jenkins is a good player. Fourth-round safety Chip Vaughn is a solid player and had some great workouts. He looks great on paper, as does fellow fourth-rounder Stanley Arnoux, the inside linebacker from Wake Forest. The only player out of the four the Saints selected who will be a difference-maker is Jenkins.

St. Louis Rams: GRADE: C
If I were the Rams, I would have taken Mark Sanchez at the No. 2 spot, but I do like offensive tackle Jason Smith. Inside linebacker James Laurinaitis was a good selection in the second round. Cornerback Bradley Fletcher would've gone higher if he had better speed. There were better quarterbacks available in the sixth round, when they took Keith Null.



San Diego Chargers: GRADE: C+
The selection of linebacker Larry English at No. 16 was a little high, but he fills a potential need for them and he's a good player. Guards Louis Vasquez and Tyronne Green were good selections in the third and fourth rounds. Defensive tackle Vaughn Martin was a bit of a reach in the fourth round because he played in Canada against a lower level of competition. The late-round picks of running back Gartrell Johnson, cornerback Brandon Hughes, safety Kevin Ellison and wide receiver Demetrius Byrd were all good picks.



Kansas City Chiefs: GRADE: C-
Linebacker Tyson Jackson is a very good football player, but he was a reach at the No. 3 spot. This team focused on shoring up the defense early, and selecting defensive tackle Alex Magee in the third round will help. I do like the selection of offensive tackle Colin Brown in the fifth round, but the rest of the late-round picks didn't really do anything for me. I saw a couple of reaches in those late rounds that definitely didn't help the grade.



Miami Dolphins: GRADE: C-
Cornerback Vontae Davis is a risk/reward type of player. Pat White has to play receiver to have value where they picked him (No. 44 overall). Defensive back Sean Smith was a good second selection, but third-rounder Patrick Turner was a major reach. With the exception of safety Chris Clemons in the fifth round, the rest of the late-round picks weren't very impressive.

Dallas Cowboys: GRADE: D
The Big D gets a D this year. They didn't get a lot of top-end talent due in part to their not having a pick until the third round, but they then went out and reached on Jason Williams and Robert Brewster. Victor Butler is a decent pick, as is Brandon Williams, but I'm not enamored with any of their later picks. They got players that could help them in terms of depth, but no one who is going to really strengthen this football team.

Oakland Raiders: GRADE D
Oakland's draft was a head-scratcher. The Raiders took wide receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey at No. 7 even though Michael Crabtree and Jeremy Maclin were still on the board, but the biggest reach of their draft and of the entire draft was the second-round selection of safety Michael Mitchell. This kid was thought to be a seventh-round pick at best and possibly an undrafted free agent, and the Raiders pulled the ultimate reach by taking him in the second round.

I just want to say that my issues with those two picks have nothing to do with those players. Congrats to them for getting picked and obviously having the talent to make it to the NFL. My issue is that these weren't good value picks for the organization. The Raiders could have gotten more value from the No. 7 pick and definitely more value from the No. 47 pick, and that's why I believe they made a mistake. The only reason Oakland didn't receive an F is because they did get some players.

 

[RAMORE]

I don't know why anyone would think that Wells would have more carries on a pass happy team. The Broncos lost Cutler and will probably rely on the running game more.

You know what I don't know?.....Why Excel and Norman think this is there own personal arguing thread I swear I had to scroll threw almost a full page of them back and forth



Just kidding....sort of

By the way Normie I hope your right about the bucs not playing freeman at all this year. By the way do you like star trek?

 

[Franklin Richards]

They didn't have a good draft, it's really that simple. Even so called experts like Kiper gave them a D.

Didn't Kiper say Leaf was better than Manning?

 

[RAMORE]

You don't pay a man $78 million to have him back up Daunte Culpepper.

Sure you do for at least half the season if not the whole. You don't want your "investment" damaging himself behind a developing line or his delicate ego which I think means more to a qb than any other position. I stand by Daunte being a good qb still he can lead the team this year and hopefully earn a starting job somwhere else.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Dizon is stouter than than Levy. Levy just does not seem like an inside backer to me. It sounds like his greatest asset is rushing the passer (a skill that instantly makes him worthy of the selection), I would rather have Follett at Mike and use Levy as a situational pass rusher.

At 6'0" 235, Levy is the same size as Ray Lewis when he was drafted out Miami. He'll put on the necessary mass to play in the middle.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/topic/bal-3ravens1996,0,1369034.story