2009 NFL Draft Thread (aka Excel & Norman's personal b**ch and moan thread)

[El_Citrus]

Clay Matthews wouldn't make any sense for the Lions. For one, he is probably a DE in a 4-3 and not a first round DE (he is a first round OLB). The Lions need an MLB, which Matthews is not. They shouldn't target a corner in the first round because they have already added 3 and this draft is deep in the position.

But there's not a lot of MLB out there outside of Mauagula and Laurinaitis, with the former I'm expecting to be off the boards before 20 and the latter I don't think will go until late first round, maybe drafted by the Lions with the first pick in the second round. It wouldn't hurt the Lions to have Matthews and Laurinaitis with Ernie Sims and have a strong, young group of linebackers.

At 20, Eben Britton or William Beatty could be an option, but that defense needs built from the inside out right now. Peria Jerry is another big option which could be more likely than Matthews.

 

[StorminNorman]

If Stafford knows hes their guy, he and his agent will play hard to get ala Jamarcus with the Raiders.

Why? The Lions have made it clear that they will have their draft pick signed before the draft - that is the number one thing they are looking for. So while Stafford is their number one target, if they can't get him signed - they will go for Jason Smith. So Stafford doesn't have the ability to play hard to get - especially sense whatever Detroit offers him is going to be more than any other team that would select him will.

40 Mill Guaranteed, which is what is reported he is saying his contract is worth, is a very fair deal on both ends, all things considering. It's a smaller raise from Jake Long to Matt Stafford (if this is the case) than it was from Mario Williams to JaMarcus Russell.

Also, Stafford isn't going to pull a JaMarcus Russell - for one, he is a lot smarter than Russell. For two, he WANTS to be in Detroit.

 

[StorminNorman]

But there's not a lot of MLB out there outside of Mauagula and Laurinaitis, with the former I'm expecting to be off the boards before 20 and the latter I don't think will go until late first round, maybe drafted by the Lions with the first pick in the second round. It wouldn't hurt the Lions to have Matthews and Laurinaitis with Ernie Sims and have a strong, young group of linebackers.

Julian Peterson is only 30 years old and was a Pro Bowler last year. And Matthews really isn't an ideal OLB for the Lions defense as it is. There is a lot of depth to this MLB class, after Laurinitis (who I agree could be an option at 2-1) the player I really like is Jasper Brinkley from South Carolina. I think the Lions are likely to trade this pick away. A team that may be interested is the Jets. If I were the Lions I would take their second and third round pick for 20.

At 20, Eben Britton or William Beatty could be an option, but that defense needs built from the inside out right now. Peria Jerry is another big option which could be more likely than Matthews.

Britton is not an option for Detroit because I don't think he projects well as a LT. William Beatty is a kid I love, though he would be better later, maybe at 2-1.

 

[El_Citrus]

I actually hadn't noticed the addition of JP in all the shuffle in trying to sort out this draft so I agree that he will be a big time player opposite Sims. What about Peria Jerry? The guy's one of the best DT's on this board and Detroit needs a strong presence in the middle, or at DE if Robert Ayers is available. I think they will try and move down though as you said, and stockpile picks.

 

[StorminNorman]

I actually hadn't noticed the addition of JP in all the shuffle in trying to sort out this draft so I agree that he will be a big time player opposite Sims. What about Peria Jerry? The guy's one of the best DT's on this board and Detroit needs a strong presence in the middle, or at DE if Robert Ayers is available. I think they will try and move down though as you said, and stockpile picks.

I like Peria Jerry, but the Lions drafted a similar DT last year. Peria Jerry, like players such as Glenn Dorsey and Tommy Harris, are what is described as 5-Technique Undertackles. Ziggy Hood is a similar player (though athletic enough to also play a DE). These players are meant for penetration.

The Lions bigger need at DT is a run stuffer 1 technique, similar to a 3-4 NG. They picked up Grady Jackson, but they could use someone a little less decrepit. Ron Brace, Chris Baker and Sammy Lee Hill are options - the latter two being more practical for the Lions somewhere between their second third round pick and their second sixth rounder.

I love Robert Ayers. If he is on the board, and the Lions can't trade down, they should take him. I think he is going to be a fantastic Pro Bowler.

 

[El_Citrus]

I can see Buffalo or Denver taking Ayers though, which would send Tyson Jackson to San Diego most likely which would (according to my mock draft) send Mauagula to Denver, especially if Denver moves up to take Raji.

 

[StorminNorman]

Ayers wouldn't be a DE in Denver, he would play a 3-4 OLB. I think Ayers may end up being the best 3-4 OLB in this draft, should he go to that position.

Tyson Jackson would be a real prospect for San Diego, but I think he is more likely to end up at 18 to Denver.

It looks like Buffalo may be targeting Brandon Pettigrew. I think the 11 pick is too high for him, but Buffalo has been known to identify the player they want and not be afraid of "reaching".

 

[Excel]

norm who do you think denver takes at 12 if not jackson?

 

[StorminNorman]

Mauluga or Cushing, if Raji is off the board.

 

[StorminNorman]

If I was Denver, I would try to reunite Raji and Brace. That would be an awesome 3-4 Defensive line for the next 10 years.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

What are your thoughts on Connor Barwin, Norman? Should he be a late first round pick? I had him going to Detroit at 2-1 in my last mock draft.

 

[Excel]

Barwin would be a reach there; I see him as an early 2nd rounder to New England at 34.

 

[StorminNorman]

What are your thoughts on Connor Barwin, Norman? Should he be a late first round pick? I had him going to Detroit at 2-1 in my last mock draft.

Do I think he is a legit first round talent - the sort of player that would be worth of a first round pick any year? No. Is he a first round player this year? Very possibly. Barwin has amazing dedication and love of the game, and he has a lot of natural, raw ability as a pass rusher - but he does only have one year as a pass rusher, so he is very raw. It would be hard to imagine him falling past Cleveland in the second round.

I think his best value is as a 3-4 OLB, especially in a Belicheck scheme. Kansas City apparently loves this kid, they want to be able to trade down to take him.

 

[StorminNorman]

Barwin would be a reach there; I see him as an early 2nd rounder to New England at 34.

How is he a reach at 33...and not at 34.

 

[StorminNorman]

One very interesting prospect is Jarron Gilbert from San Jose State. I have probably mentioned him before, but he is a Youtube Sensation thanks to his ability to jump out of a 3 foot deep pool.

He played DT in college, but may be best as a 3-4 DE. His best value, though, may be at Left Tackle. I don't believe he has any experience at the position, but his strength, speed and body are ideal for the position.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Do I think he is a legit first round talent - the sort of player that would be worth of a first round pick any year? No. Is he a first round player this year? Very possibly. Barwin has amazing dedication and love of the game, and he has a lot of natural, raw ability as a pass rusher - but he does only have one year as a pass rusher, so he is very raw. It would be hard to imagine him falling past Cleveland in the second round.

I think his best value is as a 3-4 OLB, especially in a Belicheck scheme. Kansas City apparently loves this kid, they want to be able to trade down to take him.

I watched some videos on him around a month ago and was very impressed. You would think he had played DE his four years at Cinncy, but it was his senior year he converted from OLB to DE. I do agree that his best value might be at OLB. Some people are comparing him to Mike Vrabel, which would make sense of him being in Belicheck scheme. New England would be smart to take him.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

There would be no reason to sign all four players to contracts. At this point they have to have the players ranked as to who they want the most.

It doesnt matter who they want the most. That's what you're missing. It's a contract negotiation ploy. If they want Stafford but dont want the price he's asking, they show him a signed contract from one of the other three, and his number will come down becuase if he's not selected first overall, he'll make substantially less than what the Lions sign the 1st overall pick for seeing as how he'd drop to anywhere between 4 and 10.

Now if you look at the Lions offseason moves, it's obvious Stafford is their pick. They have added an OLB and two Tackles since the start of the Free Agency...and no QB's. In fact they have let two QB's leave the team. Stafford is their guy and they only way he won't be the selection is if they couldn't reach a contract.

The Lions havent added anyone significant to the O-line in the offseason. Mostly role players and roster depth guys. Smith or Monroe would easily start over any of them. The only QB who we've let go off the roster since last year was Kitna.

To generate buzz. They are not going to wait till the draft to announce their pick - they want to sign him before the draft. It would make more sense to announce Stafford as apart of a "new image" press conference at a sporting goods store than to announce Stafford as the pick the night before the draft. .

Again, you cant announce Stafford at a team event and have him in a jersey until he's actually drafted. They can announce to the media their intention to draft him but he can't make public appearances with the team until he's drafted.

 

[Excel]

How is he a reach at 33...and not at 34.

I meant he was a reach in the late 1st round. I think NE snags him at 34 and even that might be high.

 

[StorminNorman]

I watched some videos on him around a month ago and was very impressed. You would think he had played DE his four years at Cinncy, but it was his senior year he converted from OLB to DE. I do agree that his best value might be at OLB. Some people are comparing him to Mike Vrabel, which would make sense of him being in Belicheck scheme. New England would be smart to take him.

It doesnt matter who they want the most. That's what you're missing. It's a contract negotiation ploy. If they want Stafford but dont want the price he's asking, they show him a signed contract from one of the other three, and his number will come down becuase if he's not selected first overall, he'll make substantially less than what the Lions sign the 1st overall pick for seeing as how he'd drop to anywhere between 4 and 10.

Have they negotiated with several prospects? Absolutely. My objection was to the idea that they would sign several players. Stafford's agent is the same as Jason Smith's, the only two players the Lions could afford signing at number one, so Stafford's negations would be made with exact knowledge of Smith.

Again, though, I don't think Stafford is going to ask for outrageous money. The rumor that is being thrown around now - a 40 Mil guaranteed deal - is about right.

The Lions havent added anyone significant to the O-line in the offseason. Mostly role players and roster depth guys. Smith or Monroe would easily start over any of them. The only QB who we've let go off the roster since last year was Kitna.

Kitna and Orvolosky. The Lions have talked about adding another QB, so I ask - who in the free agency makes that team better? Rex Grossman? The Lions have let Cassel, Cutler, Ramsey, Sims, Leftwich, Garcia, etc. all go through the offseason process with no real attempt at any of them.

Again, you cant announce Stafford at a team event and have him in a jersey until he's actually drafted. They can announce to the media their intention to draft him but he can't make public appearances with the team until he's drafted.

Where are you getting this info? Jake Long had a News Conference with the Dolphins last year before the draft.
http://www.miamidolphins.com/newsite/news/top_story.asp?contentID=5744

 

[El_Citrus]

It's looking more and more like the Giants are going to get Braylon Edwards, most likely costing their first round pick. This all but cements Crabtree going at number five, and for Cleveland's possible second first round pick, could take a Larry English or RB in Knowshon Moreno (I have him falling to Arizona at the moment since no team has any glaring RB needs or have other needs greater than RB). I could see them taking LeSean Mccoy in the second round if they take English with this rumored second pick.

 

[Immortalfire]

Oklahoma lineman, George "Duke" Robinson 6 foot 5, 320 pounds will work out for the Falcons on Thursday. He's actually the nephew of Smokey Robinson!

 

[Excel]

It's looking more and more like the Giants are going to get Braylon Edwards, most likely costing their first round pick. This all but cements Crabtree going at number five, and for Cleveland's possible second first round pick, could take a Larry English or RB in Knowshon Moreno (I have him falling to Arizona at the moment since no team has any glaring RB needs or have other needs greater than RB). I could see them taking LeSean Mccoy in the second round if they take English with this rumored second pick.

Theyll likely recieve one of the Giants recievers, be it Hixon, Smith, or even Manningham. Crabtrees not a lock, no, not yet, not now...

 

[El_Citrus]

Theyll likely recieve one of the Giants recievers, be it Hixon, Smith, or even Manningham. Crabtrees not a lock, no, not yet, not now...

Edwards traded to the Giants, Winslow to Tampa, Stallworth with possible legal troubles, and they're NOT going to take Crabtree to help any receiver they get from the Giants? They need an impact player on offense, and I don't think Robinskie or Britt would be that player. If Stallworth didn't have his legal troubles or they kept Winslow, sure.

If they get a second first rounder, I see them picking WR, RB, OLB/DE, and then a TE with their last second round pick.

 

[StorminNorman]

It's looking more and more like the Giants are going to get Braylon Edwards, most likely costing their first round pick. This all but cements Crabtree going at number five, and for Cleveland's possible second first round pick, could take a Larry English or RB in Knowshon Moreno (I have him falling to Arizona at the moment since no team has any glaring RB needs or have other needs greater than RB). I could see them taking LeSean Mccoy in the second round if they take English with this rumored second pick.

I agree with all of the above.

Oklahoma lineman, George "Duke" Robinson 6 foot 5, 320 pounds will work out for the Falcons on Thursday. He's actually the nephew of Smokey Robinson!

He got manhandled by Florida in the National Championship. I am not a huge fan, personally.

Theyll likely recieve one of the Giants recievers, be it Hixon, Smith, or even Manningham. Crabtrees not a lock, no, not yet, not now...

If either Hixon, Smith or Manningham were number 1 WR's, the Giants wouldn't be trading for Edwards. Crabtree has to be Cleveland's choice.

Edwards traded to the Giants, Winslow to Tampa, Stallworth with possible legal troubles, and they're NOT going to take Crabtree to help any receiver they get from the Giants? They need an impact player on offense, and I don't think Robinskie or Britt would be that player. If Stallworth didn't have his legal troubles or they kept Winslow, sure.

If they get a second first rounder, I see them picking WR, RB, OLB/DE, and then a TE with their last second round pick.

I agree.

 

[Excel]

Is there any tape of Maclin where he is being a RECIEVER and not a kick returner?