Legends A New Dawn, by John Jackson Miller

[Solidus]

The point here is not about the quality of the book, if there is any or it's canon state. The point here is that sales are abysmal and that not everyone is drinking the Kool-Aid. It's not just EU fans that this book is marketed towards, even regular folk/casual fans aren't going out of their way to buy this book Not a great start for this canon.


Saying that is like an Agents of SHIELD fan saying that even though the show isn't great, it's still part of the great billion dollar MCU anyway.

Again, the sales are not bad. You are just saying you "heard" that. There is no source. It's been out for a few weeks! Your point is invalid because you are just throwing stuff against a wall and hoping it sticks. It's not Kool-Aid...it's what George told everyone for years.

You are making up the sales thing. There is nothing behind, no comparison from past.

Honestly talking to you is real hard. Because you just pull things out of thing air and try to concrete them as fact. Again you never answered my question. You are trying to say in one paragraph that the GA does not care about SW now because....of the canon lol....and yet that Episode VII will do well? Which you really never answered exactly. You just kinda keep side stepping the argument. Just like you did when I told you the EU was going to be ejected and you kept saying it would not.

I just love how you know that casual fans, and GA are not buying the book....because you read a few comment reviews from USA today lol.

But, what am I saying? You won't listen to any of this. You will just say "you know" that this is the case.

But you are still underhandedly trying to say SW is doomed and people won't buy it anymore? Hah. Ya. Sure. You are saying it's not about the quality or the EU, it's just that for some magical reason...SW is doomed because you heard sales are abysmal. Which...again is probably not the case. You really think all these books will do terribly because of new EU? Like the one with Luke etc? Come on. Some SW books have not done well in the past. Some have done great. You are trying to indicate last page that it's because of the EU, now you are saying it's not. ?

 

[WildHorseFantas]

Hello Smallville. I am here to tell you are not alone.

We are many. We are not trolling, merely telling. Merely standing our ground and refusing to buy until they continue the stories they have already started and failed to finish. And we tell them in no uncertain terms. En masse. And with carefully planned tactics.

No matter how poor one may think the game/book/comic Force Unleashed 2 was, there is no excuse, none, for leaving Darth Vader a prisoner!
Nor for promising for 3 years that we would get Jaina Solo and why she is the Sword of the Jedi, only to have it yanked away by Disney at the last moment.

The day they tell us they will finish what they have started, I may pick up this new book. But why would I trust them to finish what they start when they have so rudely chopped off all the other Star Wars projects, hmm? They could have nicely let The Clone Wars wind down, wrap up, ending right before ROTS and it would have blended nicely into the timing for Rebels.

And no, we will not give in. Because we, the dedicated for many years buyers have spent thousands on the EU. Thousands or more. And we are quite capable of denying Disney more money. They're attempt to deny us any other choice will backfire: because that green stuff called money doesn't grow on trees, and there are other things we can spend it on.

I've been a die hard fan for as long as I can remember. But I don't take betrayal lightly. And it is a betrayal to be promised stories, have the storylines set for continuation, only to have them chopped off for greed. There would have been room for their new canon too. It is not too much to ask that they continue the already established EU.

Oh and by the way: 150 of the previous EU books have hit the New York Times best seller list. That is not something to sneer at. I would hardly call that poor selling!

 

[Solidus]

Wow. Haha.

Nice first post.

First...corporate greed? Do you know who George Lucas is? He is the founding father of all that in Hollywood. He created the whole system the rest mimic. So don't act like "before" Disney it was something else.

Also....George Lucas said FOR YEARS do not take this stuff as pure canon, do not always expect it to stay. Which is why he created tiered canon. He told fans for years don't cling to it so greatly.

Trust me, you won't even get close to making a dent in what Episode VII and the new SW will bring in. You will go and see it, no matter what kind of statement you try to make.

Room for new canon? The post Jedi canon was so convoluted, with so many stories it would have been sacrificing good story telling (since half of hte EU was crap) to try to "fit" into the (THIRD TIER CANON).

But I laugh, if you truly believe that you think lots think like you. There really isn't. I love your "betrayal talk" .

Yes lots of EU have been on the top lists.....you can still enjoy them. They are just not canon anymore....kinda like The Dark Knight Returns one of the biggest selling and most loved graphic novels out there, it is no longer canon but you don't see people throwing things around because of that...or refusing to watch Nolan's trilogy.

But I have a feeling.....since this is randomly your first post...either you are smallville fan (which I will find out soon) or he ran to another buddy telling him to help "defend him".

 

[Octoberist]

Hello Smallville. I am here to tell you are not alone.

We are many. We are not trolling, merely telling. Merely standing our ground and refusing to buy until they continue the stories they have already started and failed to finish. And we tell them in no uncertain terms. En masse. And with carefully planned tactics.

No matter how poor one may think the game/book/comic Force Unleashed 2 was, there is no excuse, none, for leaving Darth Vader a prisoner!
Nor for promising for 3 years that we would get Jaina Solo and why she is the Sword of the Jedi, only to have it yanked away by Disney at the last moment.

The day they tell us they will finish what they have started, I may pick up this new book. But why would I trust them to finish what they start when they have so rudely chopped off all the other Star Wars projects, hmm? They could have nicely let The Clone Wars wind down, wrap up, ending right before ROTS and it would have blended nicely into the timing for Rebels.

And no, we will not give in. Because we, the dedicated for many years buyers have spent thousands on the EU. Thousands or more. And we are quite capable of denying Disney more money. They're attempt to deny us any other choice will backfire: because that green stuff called money doesn't grow on trees, and there are other things we can spend it on.

I've been a die hard fan for as long as I can remember. But I don't take betrayal lightly. And it is a betrayal to be promised stories, have the storylines set for continuation, only to have them chopped off for greed. There would have been room for their new canon too. It is not too much to ask that they continue the already established EU.

Oh and by the way: 150 of the previous EU books have hit the New York Times best seller list. That is not something to sneer at. I would hardly call that poor selling!

You seem a little crazy.

And I still don't understand the obsession with Force Unleashed. What the beep is the love for Shadows of the Empire!

 

[WildHorseFantas]

You seem a little crazy.

And I still don't understand the obsession with Force Unleashed. What the beep is the love for Shadows of the Empire!

Oh I do love it! Would've been great animated. But at least no one got left hanging with an unfinished ending. I would've loved to see more Dash Rendar though.


And I hate to break it to you but there are a LOT more of us crazies than you think. That's what rebels are. We go against the status quo.

 

[Solidus]

This is the thing.

There are many great stories in the EU, many that are dear to my heart. I understand some are upset. But it does not take away the book from you. We now have a chance to have many more stories, and a more cohesive universe. The EU was always a mess, and had lots of errors. Having this done allows creators to pull from great ideas but make it more cohesive but also create new stories and not be bogged down by thousands of EU stories of the past 30 years.

Disney is still "re-releasing" a lot of these, including the old Daly books which I have not seen in forever. They respect what came before it, but like any logical way of going about it tip toeing around all the thousands of story just for continuity sake is ridiculous. Making fresh stories that tell the best stories should always be the primary goal. Getting rid of the EU allows them to do it. It's actually more of giving artists free-reign, rather then...money making. Because regardless with the EU or not, they will sell SW and make money.

The EU will always be there for us to read, and have alternate adventures. Boycotting will do nothing. Trust me Disney does massive market research before doing things, I'm sure if they feared loss of money from ejecting the EU they would not have done it.

 

[Wheels]

George was never huge on the EU and only cherry picked ideas from it. Not sure why this is such a big deal considering the history of use of original EU ideas At least now everything counts and they can still decide to to use original EU elements in the new EU.

 

[Solidus]

George was never huge on the EU and only cherry picked ideas from it. Not sure why this is such a big deal considering the history of use of original EU ideas At least now everything counts and they can still decide to to use original EU elements in the new EU.

Agreed 100%

 

[marcvader]

This thread, lol.

 

[Solidus]

Pretty much.

 

[Wheels]

Disney is embracing the concept of an expanded multi-platform universe in a way Lucas never would and EU fans are rejecting it because it's not the same universe where Chewie was killed by a moon.

 

[Bim]

George was never huge on the EU and only cherry picked ideas from it. Not sure why this is such a big deal considering the history of use of original EU ideas At least now everything counts and they can still decide to to use original EU elements in the new EU.

Because some folks need something to complain about? It's Star Wars! There's always going to be some of that lol.

I expected a bit of this, and i'm sure we'll see more when episode VII officially goes against most (i'll be kind and not say all) of the old EU

 

[Asharad]

Disney is embracing the concept of an expanded multi-platform universe in a way Lucas never would and EU fans are rejecting it because it's not the same universe where Chewie was killed by a moon.

I was upset when I first heard that the EU is being erased. Since then, I've come to realize that the EU must be erased. The EU sucks. It killed many of our beloved characters and planets. And when the dust settled, the status quo was maintained (minus those characters and planets).

I'll gladly embrace the return of core characters and forget about:
- Vong
- Killiks
- Abeloth
- the Mule (Onimi)
- Caedus
- Karen Travis
- Jooruuuuuus C'B'oa'ath'h
- Borsk Feyla
- Drunk Han
- Inept Luke
- Lost Sith
- Living planets
- Centerpoint Station
- Clone Palpy #47
- Kidnappings

When the EU is erased, I'll regret that many characters never existed. But then I'll never know the pain of Karen Travis killing them all.

 

[Sithborg]

It's a JJM Star Wars novel. I'm in. Can't wait to get it.

As a fan of the NJO, I am okay with it's abandonment. The post NJO stuff was BAD. Like no one in their right mind would want to try to continue those stories bad.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

This Book sounds interessting to me. Hera seems to be cool.

 

[WildHorseFantas]

Disney is embracing the concept of an expanded multi-platform universe in a way Lucas never would and EU fans are rejecting it because it's not the same universe where Chewie was killed by a moon.

No. we are rejecting it because we ended up with part one of stories and no ending. If they want to do their own thing but would still be willing to wrap up the old storylines we would be fine. The Dark Horse comics got to wrap up their storylines but the novels didn't. That's not fair to those who purchased the story arc and had every reason to expect an ending to it. There is nothing crazy about that expectation anymore than watching your favorite TV show one week and expecting when they say 'part 1, tune in next week for part 2, that they will actually show part 2. And you'll get pretty mad if you were into it, left at a life or death cliffhanger and right then they cancel the show!

Also Disney's new universe is concentrating entirely on one era. They are ignoring those who enjoyed the Old Republic era (books, games, comics) more than the OT stuff. They are also ignoring those who enjoyed the Legacy era.

And for those who think fan objection and boycotts don't work: perhaps you failed to notice the 'Leia' outrage that hit the Disney store when a parent point blank asked them whether they planned to carry any Leia products and they said no. Leia doesn't sell. After a social media campaign led by outraged female fans, Disney changed its mind in a big hurry!

And as for convoluted: it's a Galaxy. It's supposed to be big.

"After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story — however many films it took to tell — was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories that I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga."
―George Lucas, from the introduction of Splinter of the Mind's Eye, 1996

Dictionary definition of a galaxy:
Astronomy.

a large system of stars held together by mutual gravitation and isolated from similar systems by vast regions of space.
(usually initial capital letter) Milky Way.

2.
any large and brilliant or impressive assemblage of persons or things: (which we HAD)

Galaxies are supposed to be big. So far there has been something for every kind of taste:
short stories (the anthologies, SW Insider stories)
long stories (New Jedi Order, Fate of the Jedi, Legacy of the Jedi, KOTOR comics)
Average length (one book to three, or kids books, Tales of the Jedi)
adventures (Jedi Academy, Swarm War, Courtship of Princess Leia)
hard core sci fi (Thrawn, X-Wing, Jedi Trial)
Fantasy types (Knights of the Old Republic, Tales of the Jedi)
M.A.S.H. types (Medstar)
Mysteries (Shadow Games)
character stories: (Han Solo, Lando Calrissian, Dash Rendar, Revan, Obi-Wan)
You didn't have to read everything. You could pick your era, your favorite character, your favorite type of characters (smuggler, soldier, Jedi, Sith)

Now we have...what?No alternatives. No other eras. Unfinished stories. Who wants to start buying books when you know they never had a chance to have their storyline completed? And that's the problem. All we want is the stories finished.

And guess what? If they do this NOW what makes you think they won't do it again? Drop Rebels in the middle of story arcs as they did TCW and how would you feel? Or for that matter, any story you've invested in? No one wants an unfinished story. And the only way to convince ME they will finish what they start is if they finish what had already been there: finish wrapping up the EU. I've lived on Oodles of Noodles to spend money on the EU instead of food. I won't do that for a company that will start me into a story and then leave it unfinished.

 

[Solidus]

Okay, you are basing 30 years of EU compared to 2 weeks of new. There is nowhere, NOWHERE that LFL/Disney have claimed that they are only going to stick around the OT era, we all know that’s not going to happen. They are doing it right now to ramp up the ST…and remind people of SW and push away from the PT era that divided many. The roads just as before are endless, they can go anywhere, and they will. You seriously are comparing 2 weeks of new EU to 30 years, where the first EU actually based itself purely off of the OT. It was not until many years later that it expanded.

I love the KOTOR time era myself, hands down some of the best. Pablo who is the head of the Lucas Story group, has been involved with everything EU since the late 90’s. The man knows his stuff. He knows what was popular and what was not. But right now they are focusing on an era, and expanding from there…which the ST is clearly going to do.
Now as for your “galaxy” comparison, just because it is big, does not mean it should be convoluted, contradicting other things etc. So much of the EU was terrible, so to have years of terrible stories to tiptoe around is unacceptable. This is a onetime deal. The EU was always a mess and even Lucas said it was, they never thought much about canon, and slapsticked together a quick tiered system to try and deal with it. Disney is now starting from scratch, and with the story group will create a cohesive but still diverse universe of stories.

Now the only thing you said that I will say “that sucks” is the fact they did not finish some of these stories, but it’s collateral damage. It’s for the greater good. I don’t care about that, but you have your right to your opinion about that. But there is no changing that now. To ignore a whole new era of SW just because of that won’t do anything. The Leia comparison and up cry actually has social justice behind it. Yours is just fans complaining about nothing really.

 

[Sithborg]

Is not finishing a terrible story a bad thing? I'm sorry, but there was no indication that Fate of the Jedi was getting any better. It really killed my interest in Star Wars novels. So, I welcome the "new" continuity, especially if they are making some very smart decisions (look at the novels coming up and the authors of said novels).

I want this book because of JJM, even if I end up hating Rebels.

 

[WildHorseFantas]

Greater good nothing. Collateral damage nothing.
'Bad' stories are a matter of taste. If no one liked them they wouldn't be on the best seller list.
And they don't have to be collateral damage. Stargate, Marvel, DC, Star Trek...and more, have all had multiple universes going and selling at the same time. There is NO reason Star Wars can't continue the original Expanded Universe AND do the new stuff on separate story lines and given that it is a proven best seller it's a waste of profit on their part not to.

 

[smallville fan]

Greater good nothing. Collateral damage nothing.
'Bad' stories are a matter of taste. If no one liked them they wouldn't be on the best seller list.
And they don't have to be collateral damage. Stargate, Marvel, DC, Star Trek...and more, have all had multiple universes going and selling at the same time. There is NO reason Star Wars can't continue the original Expanded Universe AND do the new stuff on separate story lines and given that it is a proven best seller it's a waste of profit on their part not to.

This. I think we are smart enough to know which universe is what.

 

[Lobo]

You guys should make a thread for the discussion of Old EU vs New EU debate. That way this one can be for discussing the book the thread title is about.

 

[Bim]

You guys should make a thread for the discussion of Old EU vs New EU debate. That way this one can be for discussing the book the thread title is about.

Yes please, let's use this thread for what it was created for: discussing A New Dawn.

 

[smallville fan]

Yes, let's talk about the novel which fell off the Best seller's list.

 

[Marvolo]

Yes, let's talk about the novel which fell off the Best seller's list.

And that's relevant how? Look, like it or not, bestseller or not, this story is canon. Lucasfilm isn't going to abandon a plan that's been in progress for over 2 years just because the sales of a single book weren't up to snuff. Plenty of books in the old EU had poor sales and the old EU continued on for over 30 years so the idea that these sales are going to effect much of anything is laughable. The idea that some refusing to buy this book or accept this new canon will change anything is laughable. Disney is one of the most profitable corporations in the world. They have lost hundreds of millions in projects in a single year and still broke even. If y'all think that your little "rebellion" against "the Man" is going to accomplish anything your sorely mistaken.

This thread is to discuss this new story in the new canon. If the book offends you so much then leave the thread.

 

[Lobo]

It's not relevant. Don't bother replying to posts like that.

Now, as I've actually read the book and finished it yesterday, I'd like to discuss the contents of it with others who have read it. Y'know the reason this thread was created.