"Accomplices" Season 2: Episode 21 Discussion Thread

[spider-neil]

I can see why non powered villians get punches on spidey, its a plot device but c'mon they shouldn't be able to lay a glove on him.
remember the scene in the spiderman movie where flash tries to punch spidey and it looks like its moving in slow motion, that's how spidey sees punches unless the thrower of said punch is super powered.

 

[SpaceWay2009]

Kind of pointless, but I believe Peter is sixteen. Just pointing that out.

 

[SpaceWay2009]

are you serious? it's night those are her Pajamas. Pete got there late so she was ready for bed. is that really that hard to figure out? a lot of girls usually sleep in a t-shirt and underwear. you are kind of over criticizing miniscule things like that.

I know this is going to sound weird, but I thought Liz looked hot for a cartoon character in those tight shirt and short shorts/under wears.

 

[Dragon]

are you serious? it's night those are her Pajamas. Pete got there late so she was ready for bed. is that really that hard to figure out? a lot of girls usually sleep in a t-shirt and underwear. you are kind of over criticizing miniscule things like that.

And they tend to put on robes and slippers or even a pair of PANTS when someone shows up to see them or they step into the hallway. That is unless they're hookers or planning a sexual liason.

 

[Venom 1988]

I can see why non powered villians get punches on spidey, its a plot device but c'mon they shouldn't be able to lay a glove on him.
remember the scene in the spiderman movie where flash tries to punch spidey and it looks like its moving in slow motion, that's how spidey sees punches unless the thrower of said punch is super powered.

Only in the movies....

 

[Dragon]

Spidey is not the Hulk or Ben Grimm, you know. Besides, he wasn't seriously hurt in this episode, it's just that Hammerhead and Sable proved more than capable to hold their own against him.

So you think a guy who can lift ten tons should be shook by a kick from someone with no super powers? Have you ever watched a boxing match or UFC? Those guys don't have anything approaching Spidey's power. In fact they're only possessing of a tiny fraction of his strength. Yet they aren't moved by hits from weaker opponents.

Nor is he Quicksilver.

He doesn't have to be. HE CAN DODGE BULLETS. I didn't see any kicks from Sable that were as fast as a bullet being fired.

The spider-sense in SSM just makes him aware that there is danger, nothing more. In such fights it's kinda useless, cause he already knows that there is danger. In SSM it certainly isn't clairvoyance.

Clairvoyance is pre-cognition. Knowing before it happens. That's what his spider sense does. Spidey knows when an attack is being thrown. That's enough when factoring in his speed and reflexes to make him untouchable to attack by normal people.

I seriously doubt that he has developed his abilities so much. By the time of "Accomplices" Peter has been Spider-Man for less than a year (closer to 6-8 months, probably). He is still a kid and he still lacks experience and he certainly lacks expert knowledge how to fight and move so unnaturaly.

He doesn't have to "develop" them any more than he had to develop his ability to climb walls or fire webbing accurately. They're instinctive. And being in regular combat for nearly a year is about the best training one can go through.

Uh-huh. And that was the point - Spidey is supposed to kick their asses, but they are not just common thugs or even normal villains. They are the bosses. The point was to show that they are more dangerous than the rest of the villains.

Then they should do it in a way that makes sense for the situation. It's certainly possible.

 

[varsas]

And they tend to put on robes and slippers or even a pair of PANTS when someone shows up to see them or they step into the hallway. That is unless they're hookers or planning a sexual liason.

This is just pure LOL!

So you think a guy who can lift ten tons should be shook by a kick from someone with no super powers? Have you ever watched a boxing match or UFC? Those guys don't have anything approaching Spidey's power. In fact they're only possessing of a tiny fraction of his strength. Yet they aren't moved by hits from weaker opponents.

Being able to dish it out does not equate to being able to take it; just look at boxing as a example.

He doesn't have to be. HE CAN DODGE BULLETS. I didn't see any kicks from Sable that were as fast as a bullet being fired.

No I don't think he's superman; he certainly has a high chance of dodging bullets but it's not a forgone conclusion.

Clairvoyance is pre-cognition. Knowing before it happens. That's what his spider sense does. Spidey knows when an attack is being thrown. That's enough when factoring in his speed and reflexes to make him untouchable to attack by normal people.

No, it's not that simple because the spider-sense does not give him a clear indication of direction. Additionally there are limits to even his reflexes and if people are close enough then he won't be able to dodge.

He doesn't have to "develop" them any more than he had to develop his ability to climb walls or fire webbing accurately. They're instinctive. And being in regular combat for nearly a year is about the best training one can go through.

It's not been even been a year yet at most 9 months.

Then they should do it in a way that makes sense for the situation. It's certainly possible.

It does make sense.

 

[bryanss3]

And they tend to put on robes and slippers or even a pair of PANTS when someone shows up to see them or they step into the hallway. That is unless they're hookers or planning a sexual liason.

Is it that far fetched to believe she didn't put on a robe to go talk to her boyfriend? Are you seriously gonna compare her to a hooker. Have you seen what female super heroes wear. you are thinking way ahead of what any of the people involved with this show were thinking about when making that scene. you're calling someone a ****/ hooker for wearing a t shirt to bed and then coming out into the hallway of their apartment for like 5 minutes to talk to their boyfriend. Do you know what a real ****/hookers do? Next time I see my grandma or mother in their nightgown I'll be sure to let them know they're dressed like a ****. You have a pretty sexist mind.

 

[Spiderine]

I kind of agree with Dragon on the issue of Sable. She got a nice share of her kicks and punches in on Spidey in a couple of one on one situations. I don't really think its all worth dissecting though. It's clear on this show Spidey has problems with martial arts experts like Fancy Dan but we know at time they neglect those things simply to move the story along. Besides he was facing several threats in this cartoon with Hammerhead and the helicopter firing bullets and explosions, there was a lot going on unlike with Kraven when he had Spidey's complete attention. Anyways, it wasn't really a major issue.

 

[Hobgoblin]

There were some elements of the Belladonna arc in this episode too. Kingsley wanted to gain power illegally but was thwarted by super beings. Thus, he will become a super being himself. I wonder if he will learn that Osborn double crossed him. It will certainly be appropraite when he uses the glider for hisown means.

 

[bryanss3]

Gobby wouldn't it be cool if next season there was a whole episode about Green Goblin vs Hobgoblin. and they have a giant glider fight all over the city.

 

[The Joker]

Gobby wouldn't it be cool if next season there was a whole episode about Green Goblin vs Hobgoblin. and they have a giant glider fight all over the city.

They did a Gobby vs Hobby episode in the 90's TAS, but it was with Macendale, who was crap. And they didn't get to fight properly with that stupid teleportation device.

 

[bryanss3]

yeah I remember that episode. wasn't it called Goblin Wars. since I'm pulling ideas from TAS can the green goblin whip out his lady Justice statue with the goblin head on it?

 

[varsas]

Or maybe you don't understand what arrogance is. After Flash's injury, Liz calls Peter to wait with her. Then, when Flash appears she acts repeatedly like a b**** to Peter. She never apologizes to him for that, nor does she even realize she's done something wrong. THAT'S ARROGANCE. She breaks up with Flash and goes to Peter. She doesn't say: "I just broke up with Flash. Do you think you'd like to be exclusive?" She just just tells Peter that she broke up with Flash and ASSUMES that Peter wants to be exclusive. THAT'S ARROGANCE. Again, Peter is acting like a jerk here as well, leaving Gwen hanging while he's swayed by Liz's come on because she's (supposedly) hot.

No I think it's clear that you don't understand what arrogance means because I don't see anyone else agreeing with you here.

Yes, Liz doesn't act as considerate towards Peter as she should when spending time with him before their relationship starts proper but that was also perfectly understandable given she was in a long term relationship with Flash. She even explains it on New Year's Eve; she realises before this that she hasn't treated Peter well and ends things properly with Flash. She doesn't assume that Peter wants to go out with her; she does what Gwen did at Thanksgiving and Peter follows through with her and that is partly due to Liz's more confident character. I'm certain that if Gwen hadn't retreated and left it all to Peter then they would already be in a relationship; as MJ pointed out he's a confused guy and that is perfectly understandable.

Again, Liz, having been with a total jerk like Flash is switching to the nice guy she can push around. It will also burn out. But again, the real problem is that Peter doesn't have the stones to stand up to her (Or really anyone). Not realistic for someone who's Spider-Man.

This is a perfect example of completely misreading both characters and especially I don't see why think Peter should be a confident character that knows what he wants. The Peter persona is not that type of person, at least not yet; the Spider-Man persona is the one that allows him to be a confident person. Peter's meant to be the geek, the unpopular outsider...

I've explained above why Liz is arrogant. Sally isn't arrogant. She's a freakin' b****. But she's also just another cartoon cliche.

No, she is arrogant because she thinks she's superior to everyone else and considers her perspective to be the correct one.

Then they need to get on the stick about developing this.

A FEW MONTHS? You kiss someone, they reject you and you're hanging on for a few months? That's not a strong character. That's a victim. And again this says then that Peter's "not that into her" or that he's a whimp and can't go for what he wants (Even after it's dropped in his lap), both being incorrect characterization for Peter. As Peter's being written he doesn't deserve a girl that really loves and is devoted to him.

They have been developing Gwen and I think it's been very well done.

Faced with Peter's behavior, a strong girl like Gwen would move on. And I mentioned the "second choice" comment to point ot that Gwen is saying one thing and doing another. She SAYS she won't be Peter's second choice, but is clearly willing to be as shown when she was going to kiss him again in the "Identity Crisis" ep. In fact, she was willing to be less than his second choice, since Peter wasn't making any choice at all. He was just going to kiss a pretty girl. Guys do that all the time. And Peter again doesn't step up. Like I said, this eter doesn't deserve Gwen.

Yes Gwen should really move on but burying feelings you've had for years isn't an easy thing to do.

 

[Hobgoblin]

"Goblin War." Singular.

Yes, a Green Goblin vs Hobgoblin episode is vital. A knock down drag out, none of this teleporting away business.

This was a fairly shallow episode. Lots of action, no character development. After this and the Venom episode, I'm ready for some meat on the characters.

 

[Mistah K88]

And again, super powers don't make you a better fighter. The super strenght, speed and agility are all well and good, but the expert knowledge how and where to kick and punch a person still counts. Spidey is not a real fighter, cause despite his super powers, he's just a kid who fights crime for less than a year. Hammerhead and Sable have probably done that their whole lives.

Agreed. It has been mentioned with Sable and Hamerhead fought Spidey so well then Rhino, Sandman, and Venom would KILL him. Those powers were given to common crooks and some freshman in college with some issues. If these powers were given to people like Sable and Hammerhead THEY would ANIHILATE Spider-Man. It all depends on who gets the superpowers that matters. For example, Sandman wastes his powers on petty theft while if Doc Ock got his powers the world WOULD be under his control. Someone can throw a pillow at me with force and move me a little bit, it won't really hurt at all but I will feel a blow, make it a pillow as big or bigger than I am and it may knock me over, it won't hurt though. Why wasn't anyone complaining when Tombstone seriously whooped Spider-Man? Sure he took pumpkin knives to the back, but he did catch one earlier and examined it. Plus had plenty of time to prepare for Goblin's weaponry afterwards.

 

[RaZaTrOn]

Have you...EVER been in a relationship?

HA! There was no reply to that... hurmmm think we might no the answer.

Great episode really like how this show introduces it's characters.

Liz is great at first she annoyed me but she has grown on me.

Gwen is annoying me now for some reason. Oh and Captain Stacy is just a little bit cool no?

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

"Goblin War." Singular.

Yes, a Green Goblin vs Hobgoblin episode is vital. A knock down drag out, none of this teleporting away business.

I second that! The teleportation act basically took away from the brutality of the fight, although, the episode was really good.

 

[Dragon]

This is just pure LOL!

Glad I could help..

Being able to dish it out does not equate to being able to take it; just look at boxing as a example.

So then you agree that Rhino and Venom should be able to kill Spidey, since he can get rocked by a normal person. 'Kay.

No I don't think he's superman; he certainly has a high chance of dodging bullets but it's not a forgone conclusion.

He has a chance of dodging them? He's been shot how many times versus the number of bullets fired at him? And How many bullets can Sable dodge?

Ad Superman doesn't need to dodge bullets. He deflects them.

No, it's not that simple because the spider-sense does not give him a clear indication of direction. Additionally there are limits to even his reflexes and if people are close enough then he won't be able to dodge.

Hmm. Dodges bullets. Can leap dozens of feet in the air. Can run about 80 miles an hour. Nah he can't dodge someone up close.

Dude, I'm a martial artist. I don't have any clairvoyance, yet I can sense and see an attack coming. Spidey would be many times faster.\ in that he can sense the attack before its launched.

It's not been even been a year yet at most 9 months.

Yeah.. That makes a difference.

It does make sense.

Of course. Someone with no super powers can stun someone 100 times stronger, 20 times faster. Sure, that makes sense.

 

[Dragon]

Is it that far fetched to believe she didn't put on a robe to go talk to her boyfriend?

If she was screwing him, no.

Are you seriously gonna compare her to a hooker. Have you seen what female super heroes wear. you are thinking way ahead of what any of the people involved with this show were thinking about when making that scene. you're calling someone a ****/ hooker for wearing a t shirt to bed and then coming out into the hallway of their apartment for like 5 minutes to talk to their boyfriend. Do you know what a real ****/hookers do?

So.. You think Liz figures that by greeting Peter in her panties and a t-shirt he isn't going to get turned on?

Yeah, and girls who text naked pics of themselves are only looking for help finding butt pimples. It isn't as if High School kids don't think about sex or actually have sex.

Next time I see my grandma or mother in their nightgown I'll be sure to let them know they're dressed like a ****. You have a pretty sexist mind.

You do that. Althuogh Liz wasn't wearing a night gown was she?

 

[bryanss3]

If she was screwing him, no.



So.. You think Liz figures that by greeting Peter in her panties and a t-shirt he isn't going to get turned on?

Yeah, and girls who text naked pics of themselves are only looking for help finding butt pimples. It isn't as if High School kids don't think about sex or actually have sex.



You do that. Althuogh Liz wasn't wearing a night gown was she?

are you serious you're a friggin disgusting person you realize this is a show aimed at 10 year olds and all you can think about a scene like this is sex. you are blowing things way out of proportion cause you have some over sexualized fantasy about what a cartoon character was wearing. for some reason you think that all Liz is all about sex and seduction in the scene when its clearly not the case. you're just perverted.

 

[Rincewind]

Since when it became a bad thing if a hot girl shows her boyfriend a bit of naked legs? Are you, like, a time traveler from 19th century, Dragon?

 

[bryanss3]

He's friggin insane thats what he is. it's pretty clear he's thinking about sex way too much when he watches this cartoon.

 

[The Joker]

Ahhh tatatata, guys lets not BLOW this out of proportion:

 

[Hobgoblin]

Indeed. Lets talk less about what Liz is wearing and more about the episode. If you are really that interested in fashion, start a new thread.