"Accomplices" Season 2: Episode 21 Discussion Thread

[Duskbyday]

Don't worry. Tombstone appears next episode.

 

[Dragon]

Although I did not say Sable could do damage to Spidey. Would you care to explain why Spidey dodges if Sable can not do any damage to him? What's the point? According to you he's invulnerable like Superman. You're also saying he's invulnerable to Rhino and Venom; the villains originally referenced by you.

I never used the term invulnerable. It's as simple as this- If he can SURVIVE a blow from someone who has class 70 strength (lifts/presses up to 70 tons) (e.g. Rhino/Venom) then a punch or kick from someone who may at best bench 2-300 pounds isn't going to affect him at all. A professional fighter isn't going to be hurt by a punch from a child.

As for why he dodges- that's his fighting style. He makes use of his speed and agility as a first response. But in terms of fighting the likes of Sable he really doesn't have to dodge. He could simply swat away her attacks. That is, if he were presented accurately.

Do you see Spidey stay in one spot and just move his body to dodge individual bullets? No you don't because even with lightning reflexes he would not be able to continuously do it. What you do see is Spidey using his reflexes to dodge out of the line of fire.

..And? That's what I mean when I say he can dodge bullets. Staying in one spot wouldn't be dodging them. You have to MOVE to dodge. The point is, he can avoid being shot, whereas a normal person would take multiple shots before they could move, particularly against automatic gunfire. And for the shooter they simply have to rotate their waist slightly to catch a moving target. So Spidey's speed is so great that he can move great distances in the time it takes a normal person to merely move side-to-side. The equivalent of the blink of an eye.

That's new to me so thanks for the information.

No problem.

My question was about a situation where an opponent does not take up an aggressive stance i.e. it's a surprise attack; are you able to tell and react?

Yes, to a point. When I refer to an agressive stance I don't mean a "fighting stance" with arms raised and fists clenched. An aggressive stance can be with the arms resting at the side, appearing normal. The way one can tell that the person is about to launch a surprise attack is that they even in the most subtle of ways, shift their weight, tense certain muscles in order to generate force, fix their shoulders and usually generate a "tell" with their eyes. Of course not having a spider-sense, I can't tell what's happening behind my back. But of course, if I felt I was in a dangerous situation I wouldn't completely give anyone my back.

Of course you would expect Spidey to be able to react far more quickly but whether he's successful is dependant upon the speed of the attack. Does that not make sense?

It absolutely makes sense. But the attack would need to be superhumanly fast. Because of the spider sense and his reflexes a normal person is essentially moving in slow motion for Spidey. Just as he is moving in slow motion to someone like QuickSilver.

Additionally in a fight with multiple opponents from multiple directions are you able to tell when all the attacks come at you?

Yes, by using the peripheral vision and hearing. And, to be honest, after years of experience one does develop somewhat of a "sixth sense". It isn't anything supernatural. It's just that you become attune to how the body moves and reacts.

In that sort of situation you would expect Spidey to do far better than you but again it's dependant upon the speed and direction of the attack.

As I said above the speed doesn't much matter since the average thug has tortoise-speed compared to Spidey. Yes of course Spidey can be clipped. In real life, even Bruce Lee took a lucky punch now and then. And sure in a wild skirmish, someone with Sable's skill might land a blow or two. But- because of his strength, he wouldn't feel the blow. The overall point is that she couldn't give him a fight. And certainly not be able to hold onto the drvie case as she does in the ep when he snags the case with his webline.

I don't think that that's been confirmed anywhere?

As Joker above mentioned it was in the comics. See the Spec Spidey comics from the late 80's early 90's when Tombstone was a regular. In fact, if I recall correctly, the show is the opposite of the comics, as I believe Tombstone was muscle for Hammerhead.

Clearly it has nothing to do with their thick hide...

No. Elephants' hides aren't that thick. Not like Rhinos. But they have dense heavy muscle and bone tissue. which accounts for both their strength and durability.

No I'm pretty certain a glass jaw is a physical attribute.

It isn't, unless the person really has an underdeveloped jawline. Some powerful fighters ( Like Mike Tyson for example) lose their mental focus when getting hit and this makes them vulnerable. If they stayed sharp they could absorb the blows more successfully.

You're right that clearly Spidey is more durable but that doesn't mean he can't be knocked down or injured which is the real point here. If any human being hit him with enough force then he would be moved or knocked back, it's simple Physics because unlike Superman, he's not super heavy and doesn't have bullet proof skin.

Superman isn't super-heavy either. He only weighs 225 pounds. His strength/durability work in a manner similar to Spidey's only on a much higher scale. In fact, all super strong characters work the same way, with the differences being merely their power levels.

So, going back to the point, no normal human could knock Spidey over if he didn't allow it. And when he's in fighting mode he wouldn't allow it. But again, since his agility and speed are part of his instinctive fighting style, he would more likely dodge a blow than take one.

This topic should really go into a new thread about Spidey's capabilities; although I'm sure it's a discussion that's occurred on numerous occasions.

Perhaps..

On topic, I enjoyed this episode a lot but not as much a previous ones and that was mainly due to the greater focus on action; which was very well done. I loved the team up with Foswell and Rhino; it was good to see Rhino not be a complete idiot, it looks like he's learning from past experiences.

Well despite the problems with his fighting Sable, the action was okay in this ep. The Rhino team-up was cute, if improbable.

 

[russttrombone]

Wow, this thread has gotten hilarious.

Anybody here watch The Simpsons? Dragon is Comic Book Guy. He can quote stats from every comic, cite the issue, and tell you why everything is wrong, but he doesn't really get people or how they act. Oh and he has the smug condescending arrogance of someone who truly believes their opinions are gospel.

Debating scientific fact in a world where Spider-Man exists? LOL I would hate to think this way - I'd never enjoy anything.

Excuse me while I go shield myself from the inevitable list from SHH's very own CBG of "things that got it right."

 

[Rincewind]

Cos silver sable is not the type of character who enters relationship, she is a cold person becouse of her tragic past (mother and dad murdered).
So essentially she is only sable on the name,she doesnt even use her trademark nunchak ,the ones with 3 points,nor the costume resemble the one from comics.

Eh, she probably doesn't have that tragic of a past in SSM. No idea of her mother, but her father is perfectly well, albeit locked up in jail. Which probably made her life even better, cause she apparently runs the mob business of the Manfredis in his absence.
She's very different from the comics, but I think that it works in the context of SSM's universe and story.

 

[diespinne]

Granted... Spidey's depiction of fighting SUPPOSEDLY non-enhanced humans is a bit sketchy, but it always has been. I mean the guy had trouble fighting Man Mountain Marko in the Stan Lee run.

AND considering how much Silver Sable has been re-imagined for this cartoon (mob boss's daughter/Hammerhead's ex/etc.), I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume that she does, in fact, have superhuman abilities in this cartoon. That would explain why she gave Spidey so much trouble and was able to spring back to life every time she took a hit that would have rendered a normal human severely injured. Where's my NO PRIZE?

 

[The Joker]

Wow, this thread has gotten hilarious.

Anybody here watch The Simpsons? Dragon is Comic Book Guy. He can quote stats from every comic, cite the issue, and tell you why everything is wrong, but he doesn't really get people or how they act. Oh and he has the smug condescending arrogance of someone who truly believes their opinions are gospel.

Debating scientific fact in a world where Spider-Man exists? LOL I would hate to think this way - I'd never enjoy anything.

Excuse me while I go shield myself from the inevitable list from SHH's very own CBG of "things that got it right."

Posts like this are the reason why the moderators keeping having to step into this thread. If you don't agree with Dragon that's one thing.

But to insult him like that makes you the troll. Not him. Knock it off. If you don't agree with him then just ignore him, or engage him in a civil debate like varsas is.

Otherwise stop being so childish about it. You're going to get the thread locked, and yourself in trouble. You're the one breaking the forum rules.

 

[russttrombone]

Posts like this are the reason why the moderators keeping having to step into this thread. If you don't agree with Dragon that's one thing.

But to insult him like that makes you the troll. Not him. Knock it off. If you don't agree with him then just ignore him, or engage him in a civil debate like varsas is.

Otherwise stop being so childish about it. You're going to get the thread locked, and yourself in trouble. You're the one breaking the forum rules.

How is it insulting?

Quoting stats from comics? Check
Citing comic issues as reference? Check
Not "getting" people by assuming that his logic and his logic alone are what motivate people to act? Check
Debating inconsistencies in scientific fact when speaking of a fictional world with its own set of rules (which are completely inconsistent in the source material to begin with? Check check CHECK

I suppose my subjective view of him is being condescending and smug might have been a bit over the top, but it's how he comes off so...

Seems a bit ironic to say to you, but why so serious?

 

[The Joker]

How is it insulting?

You called him the fat comic book guy from The Simpsons. You said he was smug, arrogant, and condescending. All insults.

Instead of contributing to the discussion, you just made a flame post.

Seems a bit ironic to say to you, but why so serious?

I don't want the thread closed. Did you not see Demogoblin warning you guys that he'll close it if this keeps up? Dragon and varsas are debating in a civil way. And they dropped the whole thing about Liz as instructed by the mods.

So lets play nice, mmmmkay

 

[russttrombone]

You called him the fat comic book guy from The Simpsons. You said he was smug, arrogant, and condescending. All insults.

Instead of contributing to the discussion, you just made a flame post.



I don't want the thread closed. Did you not see Demogoblin warning you guys that he'll close it if this keeps up? Dragon and varsas are debating in a civil way. And they dropped the whole thing about Liz as instructed by the mods.

So lets play nice, mmmmkay

well in my defense I never called him fat t:

I did not, however see the Demo post and thank you for bringing it to my attention. I would have been less likely to engage in the ribbing had I known there was a danger of the thread being locked. I'll muzzle it for the good of everyone else I suppose :0)

 

[Hobgoblin]

well in my defense I never called him fat t:

I did not, however see the Demo post and thank you for bringing it to my attention. I would have been less likely to engage in the ribbing had I known there was a danger of the thread being locked. I'll muzzle it for the good of everyone else I suppose :0)

Good. All we ask for is some civility.

 

[Dragon]

Posts like this are the reason why the moderators keeping having to step into this thread. If you don't agree with Dragon that's one thing.

But to insult him like that makes you the troll. Not him. Knock it off. If you don't agree with him then just ignore him, or engage him in a civil debate like varsas is.

Otherwise stop being so childish about it. You're going to get the thread locked, and yourself in trouble. You're the one breaking the forum rules.

Thanks for the back-up Mr. J, but truthfully posts like that mean nothing to me, which is why I simply don't respond to them.

Anyone who gets so shaken over a discussion about a Saturday morning cartoon to need to make personal insults is in no position to play the "Comicbook Guy" card.

 

[SpaceWay2009]

Don't worry. Tombstone appears next episode.

That's great! We haven't seen him since last season. It's about time he made an appearance.

 

[Ratcrawler]

Is it just me, or did Rhino seem...shorter in this episode?

 

[Silver Spider]

^I think he was just hunching over really far.
What I want to know, is how he "snuck up," on Kingsley. Spidey even says he's not too subtle.t:

 

[Anwar]

Maybe he tiptoed over to him .

 

[Dread]

Following up upon the emotional rollar coaster ride of the Venom arc is never something that can easily be topped, but Wiesman and Co. attempt the task with their next arc, which starts here. As with all of the show's arcs, this seems more like a natural progression and evolution of prior stories rather than a bold new threat out of no where, even if a few new characters are introduced here, specifically

Spoiler

Roderick Kingsley and Silver Sable. While it isn't as riveting as last episode's stuff in either emotional punch or action, it was a very enjoyable and exciting episode to kick off the "gang war" type story.

ASM had quite a few gang war type stories in the past but some of the most memorable ones involved Dr. Octopus battling it out with types like Hammerhead and the Owl for control of the underworld, often with other figures like Black Cat and of course Spider-Man caught between. There was usually a lot of action and even some schlocky contrivances, such as Hammerhead once being stuck as as a sort of "energy ghost" form, but they usually were quite enjoyable and tense to read.

The 90's Spider-Man cartoon attempted to go through a "gang war" type story with their "tablet of time" episodes during the whole "Neogenic Nightmare" thing in Season 2, where Kingpin, Alistar Smythe, Silvermane, Hammerhead, Tombstone, and even the Lizard were all involved for that nutty Maguffin. The action was of course awkward as ever due to FoxKids restrictions and was usually very busy. The fact that Kingpin was usually the unquestioned ruler of all crime in that show, to the point that even Dr. Octopus was often taking orders from him didn't help, either.

This episode, thankfully, manages to maintain the sort of hectic, "omigod there are a million bad guys in this episode all fighting each other" sort of pace that a Gang War episode needs while providing some character focus, good fight sequences and even a few amusing wisecracks from Spider-Man, who in some ways is over his head.

It all starts with an auction, with Osborn's henchman offering the genetic codes for creating more "super-soldiers" as powerful as the Rhino to the highest bidder. Hammerhead is there to represent the Big Man as usual, but the thug soon encounters an old flame; Silver Sable, who here is the daughter of Silvermane, the former crime boss of NY until he went to prison, and Big Man took over. Dr. Octopus and the Vulture arrive to represent "the super freaks" (and notice the hot women they have on their arms), with Roderick Kingsley, known as a perfume tycoon, and Fredrick Foswell's undercover identity as "Patch" rounding out the cast for the bidding. The bidding quickly rises above the set limits of the accounts known to file and is delayed another day.

The Black Cat makes an extended cameo in the beginning seeking to steal the codes for an unknown buyer, but is quickly shoo'd off and dismissed as being "under their league". It remains to be seen if the Black Cat will take being dismissed like that lying down in later episodes.

It is worth getting into how Silver Sable has been handled. Created as a supporting character in ASM in 1985, Silver Sable, like many characters, got her own series in the 90's that ran for about three years before returning to guest star status. She was a mercenary who preferred to hunt down terrorists and criminals for heft fees that she funneled to her own country, usually alongside a group of muscle bound goons with big guns, the Wild Pack. She's been animated a few times so far, more so than some other Spidey characters. She popped up in the last season of the 90's show in her then current incarnation, helping fight Kingpin and Red Skull. In the short lived MTV SPIDER-MAN show, she returned, but this time as a far more ruthless mercenary; she was after a corrupt politician, but was willing to kidnap and endanger innocent people to claim her target. In SS-M, she is voice by Nikki Cox and is renamed Sable Manfredi, being Silvio "Silvermane" Manfredi's daughter, basically a full on gangster. It is interesting that this show has chosen to abandon all mercenary pretenses here, likely assuming she would fit in better as Silvermane's representative. In the comics he does have a daughter, but she isn't as recognizable. Cox does a good enough job as Sable although her design has always been a bit plain; she's basically a commando woman dressed in silver, with her unique weapons perhaps being more recognizable than her. Cheeks Galloway captures that bit although gives her some football player style paint under her eyes for that commando feel in battle.

Foswell tries to get more money from his bankroll, J.J., who is disinterested in his Silvermane story and is tired of funding Foswell's investigation, considering him a has-been for getting a Pulitzer "twelve years ago" on the story but not being as notable since. Peter Parker not only takes pity on the man, but knows that getting a lead will help Spider-Man bust some criminals, so he agrees to try to snap some pictures at the next auction. As it always is with Peter, this means the likelihood of missing out on a dinner date with Liz, who seems more than aware of Peter's perennial "lateness/missing" of dates, but appears to go along with it. For all we know, she may consider his job as a newspaper photographer best known for taking Spider-Man's pictures as "dangerous". I mean, she was just dating a star quarterback; if Peter offered her nothing but brains, she never would have fallen for him.

As much as I like this show, at this point the Peter/Liz/Gwen triangle is starting to drag a little. It seems obvious to everyone, even subconsciously Peter himself that Gwen is who he is really into deep down, Liz is just a distraction. Yet it also seems obvious that the show may only decide to get to that around the finale. While it's perfectly realistic for Peter to date a cheerleader when said cheerleader is clearly into him (I mean what 16 year old male wouldn't), it does sometimes seem clear to me that this dynamic is being padded out for time. Still, if it ended too fast, some of the soap opera drama wouldn't be as strong as it has become, so it's a bit of a Catch-22. Methinks Peter deep down knows he is into Gwen for something stronger, but he is unwilling to risk their friendship on it, and Liz is a far easier choice. Not only is she more assertive (although, frankly, Gwen kissed Peter, how damn assertive can a geek girl get), but if thinks turn sour in the relationship, Peter is no worse off with Liz than he was in Season 1, whereas losing Gwen as a girlfriend would also mean possibly losing her as a friend in general. Or at least that is how I am seeing it.

There also is a short scene rekindling the idea that Norman Osborn favors Peter over Harry with allowing Peter to use one of his prototype palm pilot devices. As the Green Goblin is due a return, it makes sense to revive this subplot now.

Peter is surprised to see Foswell as "Patch", the goon he encountered for information earlier in the season, which was a nice nod to earlier episodes. The history of Silvermane is revealed as well as the notion that with him due to be released from prison, the streets are soon to be swallowed in a turf war between his organization and the Big Man's that has taken over, and the Dr. Octopus/Master Planner racket that has sprung up as a consequence of the Big Man's actions. Kingsley ends up buying the codes for half a billion dollars, although why a legitimate businessman is involved is unknown at the time. Some posters at other forums have grumbled about him being made into an African American here, but I honestly don't mind. I share Weisman's notion that a NY of 2008 has to be made to look and be more ethnically diverse than a NY in a comic in the 70's or even the 90's usually was. John Semper, himself African American, also realized that for his 90's series, which was why he made sure to insert black characters who had never appeared in a cartoon before, such as Blade, Rocket Racer, and Prowler, as well as creating the character of Det. Terry Lee, so that way the series wasn't completely reliant on Robbie Robertson for diversity. Wiesman's approach has been to throw in virtually every obscure Spider-Man character that has been created into high school, even if it was years earlier than in the comics, like Gloria Grant and the hilariously interupted Hobie Brown, as well as altering the ethnicities of some characters, like Liz herself (who is seemingly Hispanic), Ned Lee, and now Kingsley. I never have a major problem with this; it isn't like race was a big part of who they were, and NYC is a very diverse place. I'd rather see an African American Kingsley than some made up businessman who is black but has no recognition.

Kingsley is voiced by Courtney D. Lance, Tony Award winning actor and husband of Angela Bassett, and formerly of LAW & ORDER: CRIMINAL INTENT. Along with Scorpion, the Hobgoblin is one villain that Wiesman has noted in interviews he would be interested in bringing into a third season, if it gets green lit, and that would be quite interesting. Lance does a good job in the role here.

Spider-Man shows up at the designated warehouse where Kingsley is to pick up his "goods", settling into getting some pictures for Foswell and his own paycheck and making that date with Liz. Of course things go terribly wrong; both Sable and Hammerhead, as well as their various armed goons (Sable a military chopper, Hammerhead his incredible limo with a handy henchwoman) show up to steal the prize from Kingsley. Hammerhead gets some more fleshing out as not only having his trademark steel-plated cranium (yeah, you and U.S. Archer, pal!), but as a career thug who used to not only work for Silvermane, but dated his daughter, before falling in with the Big Man. Which means the two have bad blood between them and are all to eager to fight amongst themselves for the codes. These results in some exciting fight sequences with all of the factions and Spider-Man out to reclaim the flash drive. The only caveat is that it is hard to believe that Sable's "super kicks" could really hurt Spider-Man unless she had some, like, adamantium toed boots or something. At the very least, her weaponry was more distinctive and accurate to the comics than in the MTV show, where she just seemed to have boring electro-prongs. Still, it is a bit of a contrivance that the same Spider-Man that can withstand being punched through half his school by Venom would really take about a minute or two to recover from being kicked by Sable unless she was on some of A-Rod's "boli" or something.

After quite a battle, Kingsley escapes with what is revealed to have been a double switch, allowing Sable and Hammerhead to fight over an empty case. Meanwhile, Dr. Octopus still proves himself a loyal super villain by offering the information of the attempt to mass produce duplicates of the Rhino to O'Hirn himself, who sets out to crush the codes himself.

Yes, all this and the Rhino too! This was one of the busiest episodes since the pilot.

It all leads to a final battle in a towering parking lot between Spidey, Sable, Hammerhead, Kingsley, and the Rhino. In a short lived but hilarious turn of events, Spider-Man and Rhino join forces to destroy the drive, only for Rhino to quickly turn on Spidey and try to crush him alive. Guess he was the nastier of the duo alongside Flint Marko/Sandman. In the end Rhino is gassed by Capt. Stacy alongside DeWolf and Stan Carter.

Stacy, who like Rhino is also voiced by Clancy Brown, also has his subplot carried along. Isn't it great that this isn't WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN and that intense storylines don't HAVE to bury character development and interaction virtually all the time? This episode seems to make more than clear that Stacy knows that Peter Parker is Spider-Man through subtle nods and exchanged lines from their Criminology class and then on the streets. Everyone is counting down the days until Gwen bites it, but in the comics, it was her father who bit it during a battle with Dr. Octopus years sooner. While a network may balk at killing off a teenage girl, they certainly didn't shy away when Bruce Timm wanted to have Darkseid kill Dan Turpin out of spite in SUPERMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES in the late 90's. The two of course have an interesting dynamic; they're not using real names in broad daylight despite masks and all like they would in a Bendis written USM comic, but assuming the audience is more than bright enough to catch on. Shows are often written much better when the writers don't assume the audience are blithering idiots who need to be told everything, especially "children's" cartoons.

The episode ends with an effective cliffhanger, with Osborn being revealed as setting up the entire ordeal with a false data drive simply to get a half billion in free funds to use as he wishes for his new enterprises. As the man who, alongside Big Man & Hammerhead created many of the super-powered menaces that now plague NY to occupy Spider-Man, Osborn may now be trying to pull all the strings under his control, or at least get Silvermane, Dr. Octopus, and Big Man to take each other out, before ruling the ashes. It certainly is far reaching enough for a man who nearly everyone is calling to reveal himself the real Green Goblin, with Harry merely a patsy to avoid being suspected further; or was merely field-testing the Goblin Gear.

Peter shows up very late to Liz's house, but the girl appreciates that he showed up at all, even if he still has Gwen on the brain.

While not as emotionally driven as the Venom episodes, this still is a good way to kick off the show's final arc of the season, with a ton of characters and action. Hopefully the next episode can carry on from this launching point...and it probably will. C'mon, it's SS-M. At this point there are three sure things in life; death, taxes, and that SS-M will be good. I'm not expecting it to fail me now.

 

[whiplash]

I assume that the "Field Trip" to Curt Conner's lab was at the end of his 10th grade year. somewhere around April or May. He spent the entire summer being Spider-Man. The show picks up let's say September. Season 1 ends at the End of November. Season 2 Picks up Just before Xmas Break and currently We're probably In the middle of Janurary so for argument's Sake, let's say Peter's had his abilites for about 10 months and became Spider-Man about a month and a half to 2 months afterwards. So Spidey's been around kickin butt for 8 or 8 1/2 months. Didn't encounter Vulture or the Enforcers until about 3 or 4 months in.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Maybe he tiptoed over to him .

Lol. t:

 

[Webhead2006]

another great review dread.

 

[Dread]

another great review dread.

Thanks.

 

[russttrombone]

Thanks for the back-up Mr. J, but truthfully posts like that mean nothing to me, which is why I simply don't respond to them.

Anyone who gets so shaken over a discussion about a Saturday morning cartoon to need to make personal insults is in no position to play the "Comicbook Guy" card.

1 post in a 10+ page thread = shaken?

Spoiler

Way to prove my point!

and LMAO

 

[Spiderine]

Following up upon the emotional rollar coaster ride of the Venom arc is never something that can easily be topped, but Wiesman and Co. attempt the task with their next arc, which starts here. As with all of the show's arcs, this seems more like a natural progression and evolution of prior stories rather than a bold new threat out of no where, even if a few new characters are introduced here, specifically

Spoiler

Roderick Kingsley and Silver Sable. While it isn't as riveting as last episode's stuff in either emotional punch or action, it was a very enjoyable and exciting episode to kick off the "gang war" type story.

ASM had quite a few gang war type stories in the past but some of the most memorable ones involved Dr. Octopus battling it out with types like Hammerhead and the Owl for control of the underworld, often with other figures like Black Cat and of course Spider-Man caught between. There was usually a lot of action and even some schlocky contrivances, such as Hammerhead once being stuck as as a sort of "energy ghost" form, but they usually were quite enjoyable and tense to read.

The 90's Spider-Man cartoon attempted to go through a "gang war" type story with their "tablet of time" episodes during the whole "Neogenic Nightmare" thing in Season 2, where Kingpin, Alistar Smythe, Silvermane, Hammerhead, Tombstone, and even the Lizard were all involved for that nutty Maguffin. The action was of course awkward as ever due to FoxKids restrictions and was usually very busy. The fact that Kingpin was usually the unquestioned ruler of all crime in that show, to the point that even Dr. Octopus was often taking orders from him didn't help, either.

This episode, thankfully, manages to maintain the sort of hectic, "omigod there are a million bad guys in this episode all fighting each other" sort of pace that a Gang War episode needs while providing some character focus, good fight sequences and even a few amusing wisecracks from Spider-Man, who in some ways is over his head.

It all starts with an auction, with Osborn's henchman offering the genetic codes for creating more "super-soldiers" as powerful as the Rhino to the highest bidder. Hammerhead is there to represent the Big Man as usual, but the thug soon encounters an old flame; Silver Sable, who here is the daughter of Silvermane, the former crime boss of NY until he went to prison, and Big Man took over. Dr. Octopus and the Vulture arrive to represent "the super freaks" (and notice the hot women they have on their arms), with Roderick Kingsley, known as a perfume tycoon, and Fredrick Foswell's undercover identity as "Patch" rounding out the cast for the bidding. The bidding quickly rises above the set limits of the accounts known to file and is delayed another day.

The Black Cat makes an extended cameo in the beginning seeking to steal the codes for an unknown buyer, but is quickly shoo'd off and dismissed as being "under their league". It remains to be seen if the Black Cat will take being dismissed like that lying down in later episodes.

It is worth getting into how Silver Sable has been handled. Created as a supporting character in ASM in 1985, Silver Sable, like many characters, got her own series in the 90's that ran for about three years before returning to guest star status. She was a mercenary who preferred to hunt down terrorists and criminals for heft fees that she funneled to her own country, usually alongside a group of muscle bound goons with big guns, the Wild Pack. She's been animated a few times so far, more so than some other Spidey characters. She popped up in the last season of the 90's show in her then current incarnation, helping fight Kingpin and Red Skull. In the short lived MTV SPIDER-MAN show, she returned, but this time as a far more ruthless mercenary; she was after a corrupt politician, but was willing to kidnap and endanger innocent people to claim her target. In SS-M, she is voice by Nikki Cox and is renamed Sable Manfredi, being Silvio "Silvermane" Manfredi's daughter, basically a full on gangster. It is interesting that this show has chosen to abandon all mercenary pretenses here, likely assuming she would fit in better as Silvermane's representative. In the comics he does have a daughter, but she isn't as recognizable. Cox does a good enough job as Sable although her design has always been a bit plain; she's basically a commando woman dressed in silver, with her unique weapons perhaps being more recognizable than her. Cheeks Galloway captures that bit although gives her some football player style paint under her eyes for that commando feel in battle.

Foswell tries to get more money from his bankroll, J.J., who is disinterested in his Silvermane story and is tired of funding Foswell's investigation, considering him a has-been for getting a Pulitzer "twelve years ago" on the story but not being as notable since. Peter Parker not only takes pity on the man, but knows that getting a lead will help Spider-Man bust some criminals, so he agrees to try to snap some pictures at the next auction. As it always is with Peter, this means the likelihood of missing out on a dinner date with Liz, who seems more than aware of Peter's perennial "lateness/missing" of dates, but appears to go along with it. For all we know, she may consider his job as a newspaper photographer best known for taking Spider-Man's pictures as "dangerous". I mean, she was just dating a star quarterback; if Peter offered her nothing but brains, she never would have fallen for him.

As much as I like this show, at this point the Peter/Liz/Gwen triangle is starting to drag a little. It seems obvious to everyone, even subconsciously Peter himself that Gwen is who he is really into deep down, Liz is just a distraction. Yet it also seems obvious that the show may only decide to get to that around the finale. While it's perfectly realistic for Peter to date a cheerleader when said cheerleader is clearly into him (I mean what 16 year old male wouldn't), it does sometimes seem clear to me that this dynamic is being padded out for time. Still, if it ended too fast, some of the soap opera drama wouldn't be as strong as it has become, so it's a bit of a Catch-22. Methinks Peter deep down knows he is into Gwen for something stronger, but he is unwilling to risk their friendship on it, and Liz is a far easier choice. Not only is she more assertive (although, frankly, Gwen kissed Peter, how damn assertive can a geek girl get), but if thinks turn sour in the relationship, Peter is no worse off with Liz than he was in Season 1, whereas losing Gwen as a girlfriend would also mean possibly losing her as a friend in general. Or at least that is how I am seeing it.

There also is a short scene rekindling the idea that Norman Osborn favors Peter over Harry with allowing Peter to use one of his prototype palm pilot devices. As the Green Goblin is due a return, it makes sense to revive this subplot now.

Peter is surprised to see Foswell as "Patch", the goon he encountered for information earlier in the season, which was a nice nod to earlier episodes. The history of Silvermane is revealed as well as the notion that with him due to be released from prison, the streets are soon to be swallowed in a turf war between his organization and the Big Man's that has taken over, and the Dr. Octopus/Master Planner racket that has sprung up as a consequence of the Big Man's actions. Kingsley ends up buying the codes for half a billion dollars, although why a legitimate businessman is involved is unknown at the time. Some posters at other forums have grumbled about him being made into an African American here, but I honestly don't mind. I share Weisman's notion that a NY of 2008 has to be made to look and be more ethnically diverse than a NY in a comic in the 70's or even the 90's usually was. John Semper, himself African American, also realized that for his 90's series, which was why he made sure to insert black characters who had never appeared in a cartoon before, such as Blade, Rocket Racer, and Prowler, as well as creating the character of Det. Terry Lee, so that way the series wasn't completely reliant on Robbie Robertson for diversity. Wiesman's approach has been to throw in virtually every obscure Spider-Man character that has been created into high school, even if it was years earlier than in the comics, like Gloria Grant and the hilariously interupted Hobie Brown, as well as altering the ethnicities of some characters, like Liz herself (who is seemingly Hispanic), Ned Lee, and now Kingsley. I never have a major problem with this; it isn't like race was a big part of who they were, and NYC is a very diverse place. I'd rather see an African American Kingsley than some made up businessman who is black but has no recognition.

Kingsley is voiced by Courtney D. Lance, Tony Award winning actor and husband of Angela Bassett, and formerly of LAW & ORDER: CRIMINAL INTENT. Along with Scorpion, the Hobgoblin is one villain that Wiesman has noted in interviews he would be interested in bringing into a third season, if it gets green lit, and that would be quite interesting. Lance does a good job in the role here.

Spider-Man shows up at the designated warehouse where Kingsley is to pick up his "goods", settling into getting some pictures for Foswell and his own paycheck and making that date with Liz. Of course things go terribly wrong; both Sable and Hammerhead, as well as their various armed goons (Sable a military chopper, Hammerhead his incredible limo with a handy henchwoman) show up to steal the prize from Kingsley. Hammerhead gets some more fleshing out as not only having his trademark steel-plated cranium (yeah, you and U.S. Archer, pal!), but as a career thug who used to not only work for Silvermane, but dated his daughter, before falling in with the Big Man. Which means the two have bad blood between them and are all to eager to fight amongst themselves for the codes. These results in some exciting fight sequences with all of the factions and Spider-Man out to reclaim the flash drive. The only caveat is that it is hard to believe that Sable's "super kicks" could really hurt Spider-Man unless she had some, like, adamantium toed boots or something. At the very least, her weaponry was more distinctive and accurate to the comics than in the MTV show, where she just seemed to have boring electro-prongs. Still, it is a bit of a contrivance that the same Spider-Man that can withstand being punched through half his school by Venom would really take about a minute or two to recover from being kicked by Sable unless she was on some of A-Rod's "boli" or something.

After quite a battle, Kingsley escapes with what is revealed to have been a double switch, allowing Sable and Hammerhead to fight over an empty case. Meanwhile, Dr. Octopus still proves himself a loyal super villain by offering the information of the attempt to mass produce duplicates of the Rhino to O'Hirn himself, who sets out to crush the codes himself.

Yes, all this and the Rhino too! This was one of the busiest episodes since the pilot.

It all leads to a final battle in a towering parking lot between Spidey, Sable, Hammerhead, Kingsley, and the Rhino. In a short lived but hilarious turn of events, Spider-Man and Rhino join forces to destroy the drive, only for Rhino to quickly turn on Spidey and try to crush him alive. Guess he was the nastier of the duo alongside Flint Marko/Sandman. In the end Rhino is gassed by Capt. Stacy alongside DeWolf and Stan Carter.

Stacy, who like Rhino is also voiced by Clancy Brown, also has his subplot carried along. Isn't it great that this isn't WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN and that intense storylines don't HAVE to bury character development and interaction virtually all the time? This episode seems to make more than clear that Stacy knows that Peter Parker is Spider-Man through subtle nods and exchanged lines from their Criminology class and then on the streets. Everyone is counting down the days until Gwen bites it, but in the comics, it was her father who bit it during a battle with Dr. Octopus years sooner. While a network may balk at killing off a teenage girl, they certainly didn't shy away when Bruce Timm wanted to have Darkseid kill Dan Turpin out of spite in SUPERMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES in the late 90's. The two of course have an interesting dynamic; they're not using real names in broad daylight despite masks and all like they would in a Bendis written USM comic, but assuming the audience is more than bright enough to catch on. Shows are often written much better when the writers don't assume the audience are blithering idiots who need to be told everything, especially "children's" cartoons.

The episode ends with an effective cliffhanger, with Osborn being revealed as setting up the entire ordeal with a false data drive simply to get a half billion in free funds to use as he wishes for his new enterprises. As the man who, alongside Big Man & Hammerhead created many of the super-powered menaces that now plague NY to occupy Spider-Man, Osborn may now be trying to pull all the strings under his control, or at least get Silvermane, Dr. Octopus, and Big Man to take each other out, before ruling the ashes. It certainly is far reaching enough for a man who nearly everyone is calling to reveal himself the real Green Goblin, with Harry merely a patsy to avoid being suspected further; or was merely field-testing the Goblin Gear.

Peter shows up very late to Liz's house, but the girl appreciates that he showed up at all, even if he still has Gwen on the brain.

While not as emotionally driven as the Venom episodes, this still is a good way to kick off the show's final arc of the season, with a ton of characters and action. Hopefully the next episode can carry on from this launching point...and it probably will. C'mon, it's SS-M. At this point there are three sure things in life; death, taxes, and that SS-M will be good. I'm not expecting it to fail me now.

Once again another great review from you.

Hammerhead sure had a lot of nerve callin somebody a freak. Mr Steel Plated Head.

 

[venomfangs125]

Weisman!! Are you going to let Black Cat show any BRAVERY OR COURAGE!! You've shot all my fantasies to hell!! (S-M and BC vs. Doc Ock/ Venom/ Carnage.) No she's just the catwoman of this show. Anything else remains to be seen.

 

[SpaceWay2009]

Speaking of Hammerhead, wouldn't it be cool to see him in a Spider-Man Movie? Imagine Hammerhead and Spider-Man exchanging quips in live action. I think it would be neat. Just a thought.

 

[Ratcrawler]

Weisman!! Are you going to let Black Cat show any BRAVERY OR COURAGE!! You've shot all my fantasies to hell!! (S-M and BC vs. Doc Ock/ Venom/ Carnage.) No she's just the catwoman of this show. Anything else remains to be seen.

She came to steal a jump drive. Not confront Hammerhead (who judging by their familiarity might have employed her himself) Doc Ock & Vulture.