"Accomplices" Season 2: Episode 21 Discussion Thread

[Spiderine]

I wonder who Black cat is working for? Originally in Persona i thought it may have been Kingsley when she said captain of Industry.

 

[Ratcrawler]

Might've been. She's a theif for hire.

 

[The Flea]

I like how Ock doesn't even bid. He just sends Rhino to go destroy the thing. He's a smart guy, why try to buy something that he already has and he can just destroy. Probably just attended the meet bc he wanted to see who would end up with the thing.

 

[Duskbyday]

That is actually why, because he made the bloody thing.

 

[Spiderine]

I like how Ock doesn't even bid. He just sends Rhino to go destroy the thing. He's a smart guy, why try to buy something that he already has and he can just destroy. Probably just attended the meet bc he wanted to see who would end up with the thing.

Yeah, Ock's whole agenda was to destroy it in the first place. See who won the bid, and use Rhino to go after it. If anyone corners the market on supervillains it's going to be him and no one else.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Since Kingsley was black I didn't make the connection at first. But I like the change actually. And the attack in front of Oscop and him working for Osborn was very fitting for me.

 

[Persian]

Hello everyone! I am new here( so be nice on me!) and I am Spidey's biggest fan in the Middle East! It is a great honor for me to post here. So I'll start with a review of the latest spectacular episode of this amazing show!

I just watched "Accomplices" and it was great, as usual! It was definitely the funniest episode of the entire series. I could not help but be reminded of a Pink Panther cartoon where everybody fights over a little bone in prehistoric times!

The action was top-notch as always and the animation was solid. I do understand the changes they have made to Silver Sable and Kingsley. Mr. Weisman and Co. have once again proved that they will do everything to improve the source material when they find it lacking. Here they have changed Silver Sable and incorporated her into the plotlines so very cleverly, just like what they did with the Shocker in the first season. Silver Sable has always been a rather unimportant character in Spider-man mythology. I can't remember even one single memorable story with her in it. Let's face it, she has been a mercenary for hire with stupid eastern European accent. If Weisman wanted to bring her into series unchanged then she would be very similar to Black Cat. But here she really works. Besides, an interesting subplot has been created regarding she (the boss's daughter and Hammerhead. And her design is pretty cool also!

Mr. Weisman has also been wise (no pun intended) enough to try to make this show as ethnically diverse as possible so that it would appeal to everybody perhaps around the world (like changing Ned Leeds to Ned Lee the Asian looking guy, or Liz Allen) But in doing so, he hasn’t altered the ethnicity of major characters and villains. More importantly he has only changed the appearances not the characteristics. I mean Ned is still interested in Betty and Liz is into Peter just like in the comics. Here he has taken another bold move in changing Kingsley into a black guy. I have wondered why Spidey (or even Batman) has never had a great black villain in their pretty impressive rogues galley. Here the problem is solved. Of course if he had done it with Norman Osborn I would have killed him with my bare hands. But Kingsley? As far as he stays in character, I am fine with it.

In my opinion, the second season (and probably the whole season) has taken only one misstep and that was changing Kraven into a bestial character. Apart from that, I believe the show has even improved the source material when it needed to be improved especially regarding the venom character who has always been lame in the comics.​

 

[Silver Spider]

^Nice review Persian, and welcome to the Hype. It's always nice to have another fan.

 

[Ratcrawler]

Indeed. And you make a good point about racially diverse villains. The Batman did a decent job reinventing Clayface as a (blue-eyed?) African American policeman. Then, in season four, after fully establishing that he wanted to be Clayface from now on and not go back to being (Ethan Bennet?)...he turned back into Ethan Bennet and a white guy who was Clayface in the comics (Basil Carlo?) became the new Clayface.

 

[SpaceWay2009]

Welcome to the SHH Board, Persian! Nice review, BTW.

 

[VenomRules153]

this episode was good lolz and yea Ock was obviouslly gonna destroy something tht could make more of what he already had like they always say why buy what you can get for free^^

 

[Persian]

thanks a lot everybody!
it sure feels great to be here!

 

[nygma619]

I'm probably gonna be in the minority here and say that I thought this episode was the weakest episode in the entire series thus far.
There I said it.

My main problem with the episode was that the plot involving the Rhino chip just ended up being a wild goose chase because the thing was a fake the entire time. When it was revealed that Norman had the real thing the entire time, the Spidey/Rhino/Silver Sable/Hammerhead/Roderick Kingsley brawl lost it's luster when I watched it the second time around. Their entire fight ended up feeling pointless IMO.

It sort of reminded me of that JLU episode I Am Legion, where we're just introduced to new elements/explanations of the Legion, and then see our heroes and villains involved in a dilemma with that spear of hitler stuff that ended up serving no significant purpose other than to fulfill the purpose of having action sequences in the show.

Same thing here. We got some setup for whats to come in the next two episodes (and possibly beyond that), some decent character interactions and developments, and the introduction of some new characters. But that's about it. The brawl between the characters that lasted over 2/3 of the episode ended up serving no purpose because they ended up fighting over nothing.

But there were some things I liked:
- The development on Foswell being Patch, a nice substitute thats still semi true to the character, and fits today.
-Roderick Kingsley is introduced.
-Silver Sable being introduced as Silvermane's daughter.
-Hammerhead and Sable's interaction and history.
-George Stacy trying to get a rise out of Spidey/Peter Parker, though I don't think he's 100% sure of himself.
-Rhino showing that big and ugly does not necessarily = stupid.
-Pete/Liz's interaction, Peter is the luckiest guy in the world for not getting the third (or even first) degree from Liz.
-Silvermane's backstory is given to us. As it seems Tombstone took over the criminal empire from Silvermane. Not sure how I feel about that bit of information, but I'll see how it plays out.

Anyways this episode in general ended up feeling really weak for my liking, as it ended up being alot of sizzle but not enough steak to stand on it's own.
Probably give this between ** to **1/2 stars.

 

[Silver Spider]

^I see what you mean. It was another one of those "lesser other characters to make Norman/Goblin better," plot devices; which I know you didn't like in Gangland.

 

[SpeterMan3]

^I see what you mean. It was another one of those "lesser other characters to make Norman/Goblin better," plot devices; which I know you didn't like in Gangland.

Yeah, I know what you mean... when you say you know what he means.

 

[nygma619]

^I see what you mean. It was another one of those "lesser other characters to make Norman/Goblin better," plot devices; which I know you didn't like in Gangland.

Yeah, I know what you mean... when you say you know what he means.

My dislike of the episode is more complicated than just that. I would've still disliked the episode even if another villain besides Norman was behind the chip being a fake the entire time.

Once I knew that the chip was a fake I felt their struggle in getting or destroying the chip was pointless on repeated viewings, since the chip was the driving force behind the episode.

There were better ways to make Norman Osborn look smart in this episode without the chip being a fake the entire time.

 

[Mistah K88]

Of course the meaning of the episode is lost to us because we learned the chip was a fake. The characters in the episode, however, did not. The outcome would have been the same for these characters (except Norman) if the chip were real or fake. NOW if one of these baddies got away with this item the outcome would have been different.

 

[nygma619]

Of course the meaning of the episode is lost to us because we learned the chip was a fake. The characters in the episode, however, did not. The outcome would have been the same for these characters (except Norman) if the chip were real or fake. NOW if one of these baddies got away with this item the outcome would have been different.

I don't see how the characters (sans Norman) not knowing what the viewer does changes the viewers perspective (well my perspective at least) of the episode.

 

[Silver Spider]

Yeah, I know what you mean... when you say you know what he means.

Err?

My dislike of the episode is more complicated than just that. I would've still disliked the episode even if another villain besides Norman was behind the chip being a fake the entire time.

Once I knew that the chip was a fake I felt their struggle in getting or destroying the chip was pointless on repeated viewings, since the chip was the driving force behind the episode.

There were better ways to make Norman Osborn look smart in this episode without the chip being a fake the entire time.

I know that. I didn't necessarily mean Norman specifically, I just meant the idea in general. I also knew that it was just a factor.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

No, I still haven't seen "Watchmen". Gotta wait a little bit before I get the opportunity. So, you'll have to put up with another review of "The Spectacular Spider-Man".

"Accomplices" brings back the organized crime element of the series in a major way. Hammerhead representing the Big Man. Sable Manfredi representing her father, Silvio "Silvermane" Manfredi. Dr. Octopus obviously leading the supervillains as the Master Planner. And, Roderick Kingsley.

We open up with Black Cat breaking into OsCorp to steal a data chip, before being chased out by the entire New York underworld. I'll admit, I was hoping for more Black Cat, but plenty of time for her later.

This episode was a fun one. Everyone beats up everyone. Lots of power games and struggles. We also got to know Foswell a little better, and I figured that Patch was Foswell going undercover to get scoops on the underworld.

That being said, last season, Foswell dismissed the idea that L. Thompson Lincoln was the Big Man. I kind of find that a little difficult to believe since that seems to be the worst kept secret in the underworld. Marco and O'Hirn knew he was the Big Man. Those three goons who Goblin outfitted with pumpkin masks knew he was the Big Man. Black Cat referred to the Big Man as Tombstone. Norman Osborn knew he was the Big Man. Harry (if he was the Goblin) knows. How could Foswell, who is undercover as Patch not know?

I still don't think Foswell is the Big Man on this show, and believe me, I am more than cool with that, I love Tombstone in the role. But, the more I think about it, the more I think something must be going on there. Foswell might me on the Big Man's payroll or something. Or not.

I did enjoy finally meeting Roderick Kingsley... who kind of reminds me of Michael Clark Duncan's Kingpin, but with white hair. A lot of money, but he doesn't seem to be the power player the others seem to be. I mean, as Pete said, he owns a perfume company, why is he involved? If he wants to be a real player in the underworld... he's going to need something a little extra. And now, my not so inner comic book nerd who knows where this is likely to lead is shutting up now.

I just want to say that I don't think the Kingsley that cowered before Silver Sable was Roderick. I think that was his twin brother, Daniel, covering for Roddy like in the comics.

Silver Sable was great. I'm sure some people will be annoyed that she was changed into Silvermane's daughter, but I'm not. Actually, it fits in nicely with the whole 'silver' theme that's going there. It just feels a lot more organic and natural. She kicked ass, took names, and, let's face it, Spidey needs more female villains.

I agree with Spidey. Sable and Hammerhead used to date? Ew. I actually said ew a few seconds before Spidey did.

And there's Rhino. I liked him here. He doesn't want any competition. And I loved his brief team-up with Spidey.

Doc Ock mostly seemed to sit this one out. Obviously, he doesn't care if the data gets destroyed or not, he created the process of transforming O'Hirn into the Rhino in the first place. What's to stop him from doing it again? Was also cool to see Vulture still hanging out with him. Oh, and Ock, you devil you. Two dates? He's always been such a player in the comics. Whether it's Stunner, Lady Octopus, or Aunt May... chicks love the good doctor. It's the tentacles.

And Norman Osborn came out the victor here. Gets to keep his tech and do whatever he wants with it, and millions and millions of dollars in a secret account for him. Gee... I wonder what he's going to do here.

Well, looks the groundwork is being laid for an excellent gang war story arc. Harry is jealous that Pete is getting a lot of attention from his dad. Pete still digs Gwen more than Liz. And George is getting really blatant about his knowledge of Spidey's identity.

But, perhaps the biggest mystery of them all? When will Hobey Brown speak???

Tune in next week, same spider time. Same spider channel.

 

[Mistah K88]

I was just watching Accomplices again and began to wonder what could have possibly happened to Roderick Kingsley in the aftermath? Sure, he got to a phone and complained to Donald Menkin about the destruction of the chip, but I wonder if the police have it out for him. When the police arrive to make an arrest for the distribution of the illegal expirement that made Rhino they clearly see that the man they are going to arrest is Kingsley (probably Daniel), so would Roddy be in hiding now because of his (twin's) exposure to the police during the start of the Gang War?

 

[Mistah K88]

I didn't want to double post but I can't delete my old one for some reason.

I'm sure all of you have seen this interview about this episode, but I thought I'd post it here anyway. http://tv.ign.com/articles/103/1034739p1.html

 

[spida-man]

not sure why ppl are complaing about the chip being a fake....anywas...i thught this was a pretty sweet episode