The Rise of Skywalker Adam Driver as Kylo Ren (IX)

Er......what about those people on the ship who had Chewie?
And she very nearly 'murdered' Kylo when she stabbed him in the gut.....while he was unarmed.
Kylo actually never tried to kill Rey, when he ordered them to shoot down the Falcon on Crait he had no idea she was on board. He could have killed her on Starkiller. He chose to kill his mentor/abuser instead of her on the Supremacy. And if you closely watch the duel on the Death Star, he actually stopped from killing her BEFORE Leia reached him through the Force.
Rey meanwhile had no such compunction and didn't hesitate to stab him with his own weapon.
As for his parents and Luke.....I'm sure they loved him. But unfortunately all their sacrifices were 'after the event'. After his parents had sent him away, to a man he believed had tried to kill him. After Luke had made that fatal error of judgement.
By then Snoke had his claws in him. Too late to be sorry afterwards.

It's okay to kill stormtroopers who were once child soldiers even though Finn was one so obviously Ben Solo wasn't going to be given any empathy.

But he's the most popular character out of this trilogy and thank god for Adam Driver and his acting chops.
 
I remember the "fun" comment, too. I don't know what JJ's idea of fun is, but killing off the most popular character in the sequel trilogy after establishing that he was manipulated as an infant is definitely not fun.

“Star Wars was built and branded around the Skywalker name, a legacy of the righteous Queen of Naboo and the Chosen One, princess and best pilot in the galaxy and all passed down to the little prince. I have no problem with Rey taking the Skywalker name at the end of the film, if it wasn’t for how the life and legacy of Ben was handled. No mention of him after his death, no recognition that the infamous Kylo Ren had come home like his mother always thought he would, nothing but a few seconds in Rey’s arms until he disappeared. He didn’t get a funeral like his grandmother and grandfather before him, no homage to his sacrifice was mentioned. He didn’t even appear as a force ghost in his family’s home as a final goodbye and to give closure to the Skywalker legacy. Disney had so much potential for this trilogy, for Ben Solo, and instead they gave it to Rey without even honoring the Skywalker lineage. It was a pathetic end for a story line that's been going on since 1977.” –Ayanna Branham, ‘The Tragedy of Ben Solo’ (Comicbook Debate)

What I find sad is quite a few real life abuse victims identified with Ben Solo.
 
What I find sad is quite a few real life abuse victims identified with Ben Solo.
Do thy identify with Rey, the person who actually had on-screen neglect in her childhood? Or Finn, the person who is bluntly confirmed from multiple POVs to have had his humanity, even his name, stripped away and been raised from birth by a ruthless organization to be expendable cannon fodder?

And if I can offer a somewhat more incendiary counter-example...

...I know of a few real life sexual assault victims who identified with Rey, because of Kylo.

Understand; I actually get the argument that Kylo is "coded" as an abuse victim.

But the substance of that is not actually in the films, and what is there unfortunately lends itself just as easily to him being a scumbag with narcissism.
 
What I find sad is quite a few real life abuse victims identified with Ben Solo.

It doesn't surprise me that some people on this forum don't understand that.
 
Do thy identify with Rey, the person who actually had on-screen neglect in her childhood? Or Finn, the person who is bluntly confirmed from multiple POVs to have had his humanity, even his name, stripped away and been raised from birth by a ruthless organization to be expendable cannon fodder?

And if I can offer a somewhat more incendiary counter-example...

...I know of a few real life sexual assault victims who identified with Rey, because of Kylo.

Understand; I actually get the argument that Kylo is "coded" as an abuse victim.

But the substance of that is not actually in the films, and what is there unfortunately lends itself just as easily to him being a ******* with narcissism.
I couldn’t eyeroll harder at your opinions on these movies.
 
You know, thinking about it Palpatine setting his sights on Ben after failing with Vader, and manipulating him from an early age could have been a really good thread throughout the trilogy. If only they didn't introduce it in the final damn movie and then barely explore it at all!
 
You know, thinking about it Palpatine setting his sights on Ben after failing with Vader, and manipulating him from an early age could have been a really good thread throughout the trilogy. If only they didn't introduce it in the final damn movie and then barely explore it at all!

Yeah, its a cool idea...the ST is full of that.
Sadly very little was actually done with those ideas and potential.
 
I was very curious to see how Palpatine was implemented. I figured there was a great explanation ahead, and a role befitting the Senate himself. He did nothing, we didn't even get any great new memes out of it.

From what I can tell Palps is basically around so there is still a villain after Kylo turns. Seems like a missed opportunity to not explore Kylo as the big bad. Killing Snoke achieved nothing I guess. There's not enough of Kylo and Palpatine interacting either. Kylo is a very isolated character, which is why it would have been really good to have Luke visit him too.

I liked Kylo in this, and thought the bendemption was one of the best plot threads in TROS. Loved the Han scene, worked for me. Ben was fun in the last act, Driver chanelling a younger Ford. All that said, I think I would have preferred Kylo remain the villain.
 
You mean that First Order prison barge? The one that we have no idea about it’s contents for? The one Rey *accidentally* destroyed because Kylo was trying to aggravate her and drive her to the dark side? The one that might have nothing more than FO personnel on it, and the one that Rey is obviously horrified at the destruction of because she clearly didn’t choose to do that... compared to pretty much everything Kylo does?


You mean Kylo Ren, the mass murderer who introduced himself to the audience by killing an old unarmed man for daring to remind him his parents were good people then had a village killed because they were inconvenient witnesses? The same dude who tortured or allowed her to be tortured multiple times and violated her mind? The one who killed his own father when his father approached him with open arms and only peaceful intentions? The one who then waved the thing he murdered Han with at Rey during their Death Star duel while leading the First Order, a genocidal fascist empire that had murdered billions in a crime against sentience that he was currently benefitting from as the chief non-Palpatine power in the Galaxy?


And yeah, he was totally trying to have her killed when he ordered the Falcon fired upon. There’s no ambiguity in that. When he follows up that scene with his confrontation with Luke and declares he’ll kill her, he’s showing his current emotional state: “Kill everything because I’m not happy!”


Frankly, Rey could have let him die after justifiably stabbing him during their fight, and no jury in the world would convict her, and most would applaud and award her. He’s basically Space Himmler at that point in time; he answers to Space Hitler, and has nothing but horrible intentions for everyone.


There is *no* moral equivalence between Rey and Kylo. Frankly, Rey just not being Kylo would make her a better family member right off the bat. Her being a hero is just a bonus.


And unless Charles Soule reveals that Ben’s Palpatine’s “Force Schizophrenia” was clearly observable or reported to his parents and uncle before the night at the Hut, they owe him *nothing* before his fall that they don’t already give him.


Everything we have so far in the canon books shows them as loving parents, and thus far Palpatine’s manipulations have only been observed when he’s already at the academy and keeping it to himself. And frankly, if Han and Leia do observe that something’s going on in his mind, and do anything like take him to a psychologist even before seeing Luke, then it still ain’t their fault, and he’s still the one with the agency that lead to his fall.


The trick with Ben is that he either had agency in his fall and his redemption, or he had none in either. So either Han and Leia couldn’t have stopped him from getting brainwashed despite their best efforts because Palpatine was overriding his will entirely, and in which case Leia gave him back his agency, or he did have agency during Palpatine’s manipulations, in which case I’m afraid the responsibility for being a mass murderer and torturer are squarely on his shoulders.


Kylo can’t be held to some standard that no one else gets. The Galaxy doesn’t revolve around Kylo. His delusions don’t matter more than the people he killed.


Rey is simply a more worthy person than he is, even if both are dubious in term a of their literary merit as characters.


Frankly, most of the sentiments on screen are more worthy than Kylo. That’s the cost of being the mass murdering bad guy. You don’t get to be the poor little puppy.

Yep.

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KYLO REN: General Hux, advance. No quarter. No prisoners.

 
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The last issue will be gut wrenching.
 
Meanwhile, we have 'pure and noble' Rey shooting down TIE fighters with relish, responding to Kylo's'please' by reaching for a lightsabre, Poe getting most of his squad killed and shrugging it off, the Resistance buying weapons from arms dealers.....
Rian Johnson gave us a film where everyone was shades of grey, and nobody was 'perfect'. Kylo's behaviour at the end practically yelled 'jilted lover'. His way of dealing with hurt was to mask it with rage. He saw Rey's rejection of his proposal, after he'd killed Snoke for her, fought alongside her and offered her the galaxy as a betrayal.
And notice one thing.....why didn't he give the order to shoot down the Falcon after they fled Crait?
 


You know when I had first seen this scene in theaters, I found myself wishing that they would have made Ben Solo more into an Anti-Hero of this trilogy as opposed to trying to pass him off as the next Darth Vader (ripoff).

Frankly, it would have been more entertaining to watch Luke training these two simultaneously throughout the tenure of this new trilogy as they went up against a larger threat (not a resurrected Emperor or even Snoke).
 
They created an antagonist who is far more interesting than the protagonists.
Now they've stupidly killed him off, I wonder if any books and/or spin off comics about Finn, Rey and Poe will sell?
 
Meanwhile, we have 'pure and noble' Rey shooting down TIE fighters with relish, responding to Kylo's'please' by reaching for a lightsabre, Poe getting most of his squad killed and shrugging it off, the Resistance buying weapons from arms dealers.....
Rian Johnson gave us a film where everyone was shades of grey, and nobody was 'perfect'. Kylo's behaviour at the end practically yelled 'jilted lover'. His way of dealing with hurt was to mask it with rage. He saw Rey's rejection of his proposal, after he'd killed Snoke for her, fought alongside her and offered her the galaxy as a betrayal.
And notice one thing.....why didn't he give the order to shoot down the Falcon after they fled Crait?

That's some insane twisting there.

Rey killing Tie fighters with relish? I guess, if you're willing to ignore that those space Nazi's are at that moment attempting to murder everyone Rey knows and cares about.

Responding to Kylo's plea by reaching for her weapon sounds bad too, if you ignore everything Kylo said about assuming control of said space nazi's and "killing the past", starting with everyone Rey knows and cares about.

Why didn't Kylo give the order to destroy the Falcon when they fled Crait? Because he had already given the order to blow it out of the sky. They escaped. There is nothing in the film to suggest he let them go at that moment.
 
Well, just keep on hating. In any case, the Kylo/Ben haters won didn't they?
Rey Palpatine Skywalker owns the whole trilogy. Pity her character has turned out to be less interesting and relatable than the so called villain.
 
Some behind the scenes footage of Adam Driver.

 
Also the Star Wars Rollout with little Ben Solo is adorable.
 
It's funny but not long after TFA a lot of people argued that Rey was overpowered, and Pablo Hidalgo tweeted that she'd'downloaded' Kylo's fighting skills from his mind towards the end of their duel.
This should have been emphasised in the films, not a tweet most people don't read. People wouldn't have repeatedly moaned that Rey was a Mary Sue if they had.
But then again, it would have detracted from her godhood!
 
Also the Star Wars Rollout with little Ben Solo is adorable.
Yes, it's almost as if they're trying to appease fans of his character with these little 'cupcakes' so to speak!
One thing I found kind of sad.....I was looking at the Jedi Council Forums today, and the header features Han, Luke, Leia....and Rey. The OT's canon heir might well have never existed.
I'm still finding it hard to get around, that they've done this.
 
Release a cut of TROS where Ben Solo lives so we can get new comics and animated stuff of him Post-TROS. We got a whole 10 minutes of Ben Solo and he didn't even speak, but was easily one of the coolest characters in the sequel trilogy.

I'm not a fan of the sequel trilogy for the most part, but Adam Driver made me like Kylo/Ben, that's for sure.
 
It's funny but not long after TFA a lot of people argued that Rey was overpowered, and Pablo Hidalgo tweeted that she'd'downloaded' Kylo's fighting skills from his mind towards the end of their duel.
This should have been emphasised in the films, not a tweet most people don't read. People wouldn't have repeatedly moaned that Rey was a Mary Sue if they had.
But then again, it would have detracted from her godhood!

I interpreted it as she opened herself to The Force and made herself its vessel and it was sort of guiding her hand.
 

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