Alien vs. Predator 2 Scheduled for 2007

[DarKush]

Has anyone else noted the fact that they seem to be focusing too much on the humans...again. That's one of the things that pissed me off about the first film. Too much forced human drama and not enough wierd monster things beating the piss out of each other. AvP wasn't THE worst movie ever, just felt like it with the amount of time we had to wait for it.

PS. Anderson pretty well sucks. Resident Evil sucked, enjoyed the first MK movie, but the second was terrible, didn't like Soldier all too much. So yeah, not a huge fan of his work and I scream whenever I see his name attached to something.

About focusing on humans...well, you do need someone that the audience is supposed to identify with and care about. However I do get what you are saying. Part of the reason AVP sucked for me was the poorly done human characters-I didn't care about them, and they took up a lot of time doing nothing before they started dying. And since I didn't really care about them, I didn't care about them dying-esp. if most of the gory deaths were off screen.

I think the older Alien and Predator movies had a good formula. Give us some interesting characters and slowly pare the group down to the most interesting/toughest of the bunch.

But also, I think maybe more time should be spent developing the Predator (s) as characters opposed to more generic, boring human characters. There's the whole stoic warrior-hunter thing they've got going.

And I do agree with you that there needs to be more focus on Aliens v. Predators. That's what people are paying their money to see. Have the humans set up the situation and then get them out of the way. If you develop the Predator character somewhat maybe he/she can carry the movie the rest of the way. It can be a test of wills, with very little dialogue.

 

[gregtestagent]

About focusing on humans...well, you do need someone that the audience is supposed to identify with and care about. However I do get what you are saying. Part of the reason AVP sucked for me was the poorly done human characters-I didn't care about them, and they took up a lot of time doing nothing before they started dying. And since I didn't really care about them, I didn't care about them dying-esp. if most of the gory deaths were off screen.

I think the older Alien and Predator movies had a good formula. Give us some interesting characters and slowly pare the group down to the most interesting/toughest of the bunch.

But also, I think maybe more time should be spent developing the Predator (s) as characters opposed to more generic, boring human characters. There's the whole stoic warrior-hunter thing they've got going.

And I do agree with you that there needs to be more focus on Aliens v. Predators. That's what people are paying their money to see. Have the humans set up the situation and then get them out of the way. If you develop the Predator character somewhat maybe he/she can carry the movie the rest of the way. It can be a test of wills, with very little dialogue.

I like what you've said. I really wanted that woman to join the clan at the end of the film, and that'd be a good excuse to see her in a sequel. Forget Earth, and have her hunt on Alien planets with Predators. Maybe have her kill a Pred-Alien on her own (that'd be impressive even for a Predator), and then take it from there.

 

[DarKush]

I like what you've said. I really wanted that woman to join the clan at the end of the film, and that'd be a good excuse to see her in a sequel. Forget Earth, and have her hunt on Alien planets with Predators. Maybe have her kill a Pred-Alien on her own (that'd be impressive even for a Predator), and then take it from there.

That's a really interesting approach. Bringing back Sanaa Lathan would give us the human viewpoint/entryway into Predator culture, and we really wouldn't need too many more humans after that. Good idea.

 

[Bishop2]

That's precisely what the novels and comics wound up doing. I was really happy that they avoided that pitfall in the movie, personally - I thought the idea of turning a human woman into a "honorary predator" was about as lame a direction as they could possibly go. I was sitting there holding my breath in fear that she'd walk onto the ship at the end of the first AVP...

 

[XwolverineX]

I have a bad feeling about this one. I just want Predator 3 allready.

 

[Bishop2]

I have a bad feeling about this one. I just want Predator 3 allready.

In his latest interview over at IESB.net, President Tom Rothman confirmed that Predator 3 is "something we are thinking and talking about" as a follow-up to this film, but it's not currently in active development.

Still, I'm just glad to know it's on their minds.

 

[Ultimate Movie-Man]

Not Tom Rothman's mind, though. Eurgh. Is there actually anyone who can take over 20th Century Fox and not **** every movie they produce up?

 

[gregtestagent]

That's precisely what the novels and comics wound up doing. I was really happy that they avoided that pitfall in the movie, personally - I thought the idea of turning a human woman into a "honorary predator" was about as lame a direction as they could possibly go. I was sitting there holding my breath in fear that she'd walk onto the ship at the end of the first AVP...

Explain how that would fail. Unless you want the Preds to speak English or have English subtitles, you better have some humans throughout the movie.

 

[Bishop2]

Explain how that would fail. Unless you want the Preds to speak English or have English subtitles, you better have some humans throughout the movie.

Well, Predators CAN speak English, as we already know. But I'd rather not have them be central characters.

Putting a human on a Predator's ship and having her parade around in Predator gear is some cheesy-ass crap. About as cheesy a concept as I can imagine for this franchise, and I'm surprised even the comics were dumb enough to go there.

There are infinite possibilities for human/Predator interactions, especially since we know from Predator 2 that they've been doing this continuously all throughout history. Keep them hunting on Earth, for humans or whatever you like, or set it in space and have humans get mixed up in a hunt for the aliens there... although given budget constraints, that's not likely to be feasible.

 

[Rambo, John J]

We know that predators can imitate speech. Whether or not they actually understand what they're saying is open for debate.

There are myriad ways in which AvP ****ed over the two franchises but for the sake of brevity, i'll only mention a couple of more noteworthy ones here:

Alien/ Aliens/ Alien 3 - gestation time varies. But it's clearly established that gestation time ranges from at least, at least half a day (Kain in Alien). But is usually a couple of days to a week, perhaps longer. AvP - gestation time, i.e. time from impregnation to chest busting somehow becomes a matter of seconds.

= **** up.


Predator/ Predator 2 - The predator only hunts during the hot weather. (Why is not explained,) it's established that Predators will only hunt during hot, humid weather. Predator 1 - tropical jungle 'Only in the hottest of years this happens. And this year, it grows hot.'

Predator 2 - L.A is in the middle of an unseasonably warm heatwave.

AvP - The predators hunt at the arctic circle. In an Ice fortess.

= **** up.

Alien - It's established that the company has never, ever, encountered the Aliens before. The company only becomes aware of the existance of the Aliens by intercepting the SOS/ Warning from the derelict spacecraft.

AvP - The Predators have seeded earth with aliens as far back as history is known to establish a hunting/ rite of passage area, for young predators and that humans were not only aware of such practices, but actually worshipped the Predators and actively volunteered to be hosts.

= **** up.

There's more (lord, countless more) smaller infractions which i'll not get into here. But, in summation, AvP was (in my humble opinion) a crap film which screwed over not one, but two franchises, and from what i've seen/ heard so far AvP 2

Spoiler

Aliens and Predator crash land in small, backwater Texan town. Hilarity Ensues.

sounds like a steaming puddle of piss. Count me out.

 

[Bishop2]

We know that predators can imitate speech. Whether or not they actually understand what they're saying is open for debate.

I think the "Take It" from the end of Predator 2 seems to indicate that they understand at least some degree of speech. Other than that one line though... yeah, they just tend to parrot. Although they do have a habit of parroting things at bizarrely appropriate times.

There are myriad ways in which AvP ****ed over the two franchises but for the sake of brevity, i'll only mention a couple of more noteworthy ones here:

Alien/ Aliens/ Alien 3 - gestation time varies. But it's clearly established that gestation time ranges from at least, at least half a day (Kain in Alien). But is usually a couple of days to a week, perhaps longer. AvP - gestation time, i.e. time from impregnation to chest busting somehow becomes a matter of seconds.

= **** up.

Yeah, this is one of the things that nagged at me when I first saw AVP, but you know, it's not enough to kill the whole movie for me. Yeah, they condense gestation into 10 minutes total, but... eh.

However, I was always fascinated by the BIZARRE gestation issues presented in Alien Resurrection. Purvis is literally impregnated for at least, what? A full day after every other person has already hatched? And yet it's not like he's even carrying a queen. Why does he take so damn long to burst? I could wank a lot of explanations, sure, but it's still pretty weird. I remember that got a lot of gripes at the time... but again, not really something that's enough to kill things for me.

Predator/ Predator 2 - The predator only hunts during the hot weather. (Why is not explained,) it's established that Predators will only hunt during hot, humid weather. Predator 1 - tropical jungle 'Only in the hottest of years this happens. And this year, it grows hot.'

Predator 2 - L.A is in the middle of an unseasonably warm heatwave.

AvP - The predators hunt at the arctic circle. In an Ice fortess.

= **** up.

Technically the antarctic circle. Anyways, it's not an "ice fortress." It's a stone temple operating on a heating mechanism. So we don't really know the temperature inside the temple, but despite the fact that the Predators clearly have an established preference for very hot environments, I don't think there's any reason to believe it's IMPOSSIBLE for them to hunt in the cold. Hell, even the comics have established since the mid-90s that they can do it. Prolonged exposure, however, is probably inadvisable.

(Plus, when they build the temple, it was in the middle of a freaking jungle. Good location at the time.)

Besides, setting the movie in Antarctica accomplished something that I was concerned about since I first heard about the concept - maintaining the notion that the Aliens MUST be isolated from life/civilization on Earth, for they would all too easily overrun it and destroy it. Something which AVP2 seems to be totally screwing up.

Alien - It's established that the company has never, ever, encountered the Aliens before. The company only becomes aware of the existance of the Aliens by intercepting the SOS/ Warning from the derelict spacecraft.

I gotta call some BS on this. This is never actually established and the fact that the company knows how "perfect" this organism is and intentionally sends Ash along on the usual hauling mission JUST SO he can retrieve an Alien from this planet has always been one of the great mysteries of the franchise along with the infamous Space Jockey. Obviously they heard about the Alien before the Nostromo passed by LV-426, or else they would've have known to send Ash along in the first place. The question is, why didn't they send someone other than a bunch of freaking haulers to get the Alien? Ah well. But at least AVP establishes a reason why the company would have some established interest.

Of course, it's also possible the company still doesn't know crap about the Aliens after AVP. There's no reason they'd believe Lex's ravings about the events in Antarctica anyway. But I prefer the explanation of why they have a vested interest in the beast.

 

[Fried Gold]

Are people actually having conversations about this film? LOL

 

[Rambo, John J]

I think the "Take It" from the end of Predator 2 seems to indicate that they understand at least some degree of speech. Other than that one line though... yeah, they just tend to parrot. Although they do have a habit of parroting things at bizarrely appropriate times.

I'd actually forgotten about that, cheers.

Yeah, this is one of the things that nagged at me when I first saw AVP, but you know, it's not enough to kill the whole movie for me. Yeah, they condense gestation into 10 minutes total, but... eh.

Sadly amigo, it's the little things like that which do niggle at me. And combined, a lot of little mistakes (which shouldn't have been allowed through, precisely because they fly in the face of established canonical continuity) just make me want to stick my boot through the TV.

However, I was always fascinated by the BIZARRE gestation issues presented in Alien Resurrection. Purvis is literally impregnated for at least, what? A full day after every other person has already hatched? And yet it's not like he's even carrying a queen. Why does he take so damn long to burst? I could wank a lot of explanations, sure, but it's still pretty weird. I remember that got a lot of gripes at the time... but again, not really something that's enough to kill things for me.

Genius paragraph - if only for this: "I could wank a lot of explanations"

Although I do agree, Alien Resurrection never has been my cup of tea, but being set in the future of the Alien francise doesn't contravene any established continuity.

Technically the antarctic circle. Anyways, it's not an "ice fortress." It's a stone temple operating on a heating mechanism. So we don't really know the temperature inside the temple, but despite the fact that the Predators clearly have an established preference for very hot environments, I don't think there's any reason to believe it's IMPOSSIBLE for them to hunt in the cold. Hell, even the comics have established since the mid-90s that they can do it. Prolonged exposure, however, is probably inadvisable.

(Plus, when they build the temple, it was in the middle of a freaking jungle. Good location at the time.)

Dammit Bishop! If we're gonna get all smackdowny here I could say that for as long as there's been humanoid life on earth, the Antarctic has never been a jungle. But I suppose in terms of explaining the 'only hunt in hot climes' it'll work for the average moviegoer. Again, a little thing that just niggles at me.

Besides, setting the movie in Antarctica accomplished something that I was concerned about since I first heard about the concept - maintaining the notion that the Aliens MUST be isolated from life/civilization on Earth, for they would all too easily overrun it and destroy it. Something which AVP2 seems to be totally screwing up.

True, but it also begs the question, why set it on earth at all? Why not follow the original graphic novel and have it set on a desert planet with Predators seeding a certain area with a finite amount of eggs?

I gotta call some BS on this. This is never actually established and the fact that the company knows how "perfect" this organism is and intentionally sends Ash along on the usual hauling mission JUST SO he can retrieve an Alien from this planet has always been one of the great mysteries of the franchise along with the infamous Space Jockey. Obviously they heard about the Alien before the Nostromo passed by LV-426, or else they would've have known to send Ash along in the first place. The question is, why didn't they send someone other than a bunch of freaking haulers to get the Alien? Ah well. But at least AVP establishes a reason why the company would have some established interest.

Of course, it's also possible the company still doesn't know crap about the Aliens after AVP. There's no reason they'd believe Lex's ravings about the events in Antarctica anyway. But I prefer the explanation of why they have a vested interest in the beast.

I guess it could be explained that way. It just seemed to me a case of screwing with established behaviour and character traits just for the hell of it. On the one hand, it seems a case of, 'lets have it set on present day earth so that we can have human (i.e. relateable) characters. On the other hand, it was also a case of once they decided to do this, they opened a whole can of worms in terms of continuity for both franchises and never adequately explained any deviations. e.g. some of the Predators armour is acid proof, some of it isn't. The Predators don't have their guns until they get to the temple etc.

Again, little things like that which totalled up ruin any enjoyment I might have had. I'm not especially hard to please when it comes to mindless entertainment, but I have to question the skills and artistic integrity of any director/ actor etc. who can't (or won't) build upon previous stories but will piss all over them in a vain attempt to make 'their mark.' When i'm watching a film and i'm thinking 'Christ, they got that wrong!' then something, as they say, is not quite right. A sequel (or indeed prequel) that sullies the memory of the original franchise (and in this case franchises) shouldn't have been made to begin with.

 

[Bishop2]

Dammit Bishop! If we're gonna get all smackdowny here I could say that for as long as there's been humanoid life on earth, the Antarctic has never been a jungle.

Actually, I think you just pointed out that I screwed up. The "flashback" sequence shows a temple in the jungle, but apparently I forgot that that wasn't the temple in the movie, because that one was destroyed ages ago. So although the characters in the movie say "ancient maps show antarctica free of ice; it's likely the continent was once habitable," that doesn't actually mean it was steamy hot OR full of vegetation. So I guess we don't know what temperature it was when they built the temple there. But uh... it was warmer than it is now, apparently. That's about it.

True, but it also begs the question, why set it on earth at all? Why not follow the original graphic novel and have it set on a desert planet with Predators seeding a certain area with a finite amount of eggs?


...

I guess it could be explained that way. It just seemed to me a case of screwing with established behaviour and character traits just for the hell of it. On the one hand, it seems a case of, 'lets have it set on present day earth so that we can have human (i.e. relateable) characters. On the other hand, it was also a case of once they decided to do this, they opened a whole can of worms in terms of continuity for both franchises and never adequately explained any deviations. e.g. some of the Predators armour is acid proof, some of it isn't. The Predators don't have their guns until they get to the temple etc.

Interestingly, the Fox executives claim in one of the first featurettes that was up for download shortly before the first AVP movie started filming that they heard "hundreds" (exaggeration? truth?) of pitches for an AVP movie over the years, but most of them set it in space and they didn't get excited about any of them until Anderson suggested moving the movie to the Predator "modern" timeline instead of putting it in the Alien "future" timeline.

God only knows why they were so opposed to the future timeline, but one possibility is probably the budget issue, which seems to have constrained the movie heavily all the way through its production. Setting it in the future means worrying about spaceship CGI, maybe some futuristic settlements of some kind... you know, that sort of jazz. Although I maintain that you could probably build a single planetary colony set for the same price that they spent building that freaking whaling station!

Of course, they also cut down the number of Predators in the movie right before shooting started, so I guess you couldn't have a full clan compliment running around. Perhaps you could keep the exact same plotline of Predators sent down for "trials"? Then you could keep your smaller number of 3 Preds, only have a few space scenes... see, I think it's doable. But for some reason the producers didn't want to make the movie in the future. I'd be curious to hear more about why that bored them so much. Was it just too obvious? Maybe it was obvious for a REASON, guys.

Again, little things like that which totalled up ruin any enjoyment I might have had. I'm not especially hard to please when it comes to mindless entertainment, but I have to question the skills and artistic integrity of any director/ actor etc. who can't (or won't) build upon previous stories but will piss all over them in a vain attempt to make 'their mark.' When i'm watching a film and i'm thinking 'Christ, they got that wrong!' then something, as they say, is not quite right. A sequel (or indeed prequel) that sullies the memory of the original franchise (and in this case franchises) shouldn't have been made to begin with.

I actually liked it more than Alien Resurrection and Alien 3. True, Alien 3 had a couple of genuine "scare" moments in my opinions, but it never got the adrenaline raised like the first two did. Strong performances, some great direction and atmosphere, but the script was an unholy mess from literally the opening credits. To this day, there's no good god damned reason for how there'd be eggs on the freaking Sulaco after the Queen was ripped off of her egg sac all the way back in the sub-basement of Hadley's Hope (god, how much of an Alien geek am I?). Alien Resurrection and AVP opted to take the movie more in the direction of straight-up action films, which I think might've been the right thing to do... after all, are we really gonna be afraid of the Alien ever again at this point? Probably not. It's too familiar.

But comparing AR and AVP, I think AVP is by far the more satisfying action picture, so it gets the highest overall vote of the post-Aliens films for me. Plus milking the ol' "Aliens built the pyramids!" idea and the architectural similarities between various ancient cultures to create a new Predator backstory struck me as a really clever concept, and I liked the actors and characters we were given for the most part. Plus, you know, I didn't successfully predict everything that was gonna happen. In these "Ten Little Indians" sorts of movies, I usually figure that any time I don't predict who is gonna die and when, as well as who is gonna live... well, that's a thumbs-up in my book.

Is it the weakest in the Predator franchise, though? I dunno if I can form an opinion there. I always liked the first two equally. Most people hate the second, so maybe their mileage varies. As for where I'd rank AVP in the overall Predator series, it's hard to say because I always preferred the Alien franchise... so AVP kinda gets bonus points from me just for having aliens in it. I know. I'm weak.

 

[Horrorfan]

As for supposed plot holes...

Paul Anderson said that the preds were pumping the queen full of hormones to increase the speed of incubation.

When the preds originally hunted at the temples, it wasn't a frozen wasteland, and since it's out of the way and can seemingly contain the alien threat, why build another temple in a place where it's warm and closer to modern civilisation? It would be a pointless risk that could also expose the predator's existence.

Also, I thought it was clear in Alien WY knew SOMETHING about the alien. That was the reason ash was placed on the nostronomo and the ship diverted. Assuming a team would come looking for weyland (which it would) they could research the remains of the temple, and or even find the queen's dead body beneath the ice.

 

[Horrorfan]

the script was an unholy mess from literally the opening credits. To this day, there's no good god damned reason for how there'd be eggs on the freaking Sulaco after the Queen was ripped off of her egg sac all the way back in the sub-basement of Hadley's Hope (god, how much of an Alien geek am I?). .

Actually, there is a splitting of an alien egg opening at the end of aliens. I always assumed that, though implausable, it wasn't impossible a queen could have somehow smugged an egg onto the drop ship (remember ripley left her in the egg room). And you could say that was just a cool bonus for fans and didn't mean anything, James Cameron didn't seem like a director who did stuff for ****s and giggles. everything he does usually is for a reason. Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[gregtestagent]

We know that predators can imitate speech. Whether or not they actually understand what they're saying is open for debate.

There are myriad ways in which AvP ****ed over the two franchises but for the sake of brevity, i'll only mention a couple of more noteworthy ones here:

Alien/ Aliens/ Alien 3 - gestation time varies. But it's clearly established that gestation time ranges from at least, at least half a day (Kain in Alien). But is usually a couple of days to a week, perhaps longer. AvP - gestation time, i.e. time from impregnation to chest busting somehow becomes a matter of seconds.

= **** up.


Predator/ Predator 2 - The predator only hunts during the hot weather. (Why is not explained,) it's established that Predators will only hunt during hot, humid weather. Predator 1 - tropical jungle 'Only in the hottest of years this happens. And this year, it grows hot.'

Predator 2 - L.A is in the middle of an unseasonably warm heatwave.

AvP - The predators hunt at the arctic circle. In an Ice fortess.

= **** up.

Alien - It's established that the company has never, ever, encountered the Aliens before. The company only becomes aware of the existance of the Aliens by intercepting the SOS/ Warning from the derelict spacecraft.

AvP - The Predators have seeded earth with aliens as far back as history is known to establish a hunting/ rite of passage area, for young predators and that humans were not only aware of such practices, but actually worshipped the Predators and actively volunteered to be hosts.

= **** up.

There's more (lord, countless more) smaller infractions which i'll not get into here. But, in summation, AvP was (in my humble opinion) a crap film which screwed over not one, but two franchises, and from what i've seen/ heard so far AvP 2

Spoiler

Aliens and Predator crash land in small, backwater Texan town. Hilarity Ensues.

sounds like a steaming puddle of piss. Count me out.

I agree with all your points 100% but is that the premise for AVP2? seriously!? RAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Horrorfan]

I agree with all your points 100% but is that the premise for AVP2? seriously!? RAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not to worry, the premise was posted on aint it cool and got slammed so bad they actually have apparently scrapped that entire idea and gone for something totally different, last I heard.

 

[gregtestagent]

Not to worry, the premise was posted on aint it cool and got slammed so bad they actually have apparently scrapped that entire idea and gone for something totally different, last I heard.

Whew, thank's. I knew AVP2 was going to be worse, but not that bad.

 

[Bishop2]

Not to worry, the premise was posted on aint it cool and got slammed so bad they actually have apparently scrapped that entire idea and gone for something totally different, last I heard.

No they haven't. Apparently you haven't kept up with the casting news... they've already started filming, and the only change that's happened since that script review is that it's now in a Colorado town instead of a Texas town.

 

[gregtestagent]

No they haven't. Apparently you haven't kept up with the casting news... they've already started filming, and the only change that's happened since that script review is that it's now in a Colorado town instead of a Texas town.

That better be a load of bull. Link, because i'm not gonna look that **** up.

 

[Horrorfan]

No they haven't. Apparently you haven't kept up with the casting news... they've already started filming, and the only change that's happened since that script review is that it's now in a Colorado town instead of a Texas town.

I know it's filming, with the chick from 24. But I have heard it's a totally different script, more like aliens. Quite frankly, after the universal uprooar when the script review went online, they would be insane to keep it.

 

[Bishop2]

That better be a load of bull. Link, because i'm not gonna look that **** up.

Goold old Ugo's news page...

http://www.ugo.com/channels/FilmTv/sciFi/article.asp?articleID=20167

Plus of course, right here on SHH, they said when the leads were announced that it's still Shane Salerno's script, which is the one AICN reviewed.

Hey, keep in mind that there was a huge, angry uproar when AICN posted negative reviews of the scripts for Fantastic Four and X-Men 3. Guess what? Both scripts stayed almost exactly the same! That's Fox.

 

[Horrorfan]

Goold old Ugo's news page...

http://www.ugo.com/channels/FilmTv/sciFi/article.asp?articleID=20167

Plus of course, right here on SHH, they said when the leads were announced that it's still Shane Salerno's script, which is the one AICN reviewed.
.

Well there goes any chance this movie will be good.


They might as well keep in the walmart shoot out, if only to put it on a pathetically laughable scale of watchability.

 

[Bishop2]

On the upside, Tom Rothman did say in his interview at IESB.net recently that this film will be "very r-rated, very violent." So I'm sure there are those who will be excited to hear that.

Honestly I thought the K-mart scene was the only good idea in that script review. I can picture a Predator picking up buzz-saws from the hardware aisle and flinging 'em like his disks, I can picture an Alien crashing through stacks of bicycles to create carnage....