BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 192

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[sportjames23]

Am I the only one who wishes WB would combine the DCCU with the Flash/Arrow-verses?

Flash and Arrow already look like they stepped out of the DCCU.

 

[sportjames23]

I finally did it! I closed off one thread and opened another!
WOOOOOOHOOOOO!!!

 

[Naked Shia]

I finally did it! I closed off one thread and opened another!
WOOOOOOHOOOOO!!!

 

[Black Narcissus]

Am I the only one who wishes WB would combine the DCCU with the Flash/Arrow-verses?

Flash and Arrow already look like they stepped out of the DCCU.

We already went over this, Mr. Amell.

The answer is NO.

 

[sportjames23]

We already went over this, Mr. Amell.

The answer is NO.

 

[Naked Shia]

We already went over this, Mr. Amell.

The answer is NO.

Maybe I should do like you and put a quote of that dude who put me on ignore because I told him to have a piece of cake (which was nice of me )

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

We already went over this, Mr. Amell.

The answer is NO.

Yeah, I think the TV shows are fine and all but... They have problems lets say? And on the Marvel side of things it hasn't been this huge boon of entertainment that has given the MCU some extra depth. Right now Marvel is officially 1 and 1 with series. AoS is a mess STILL and on that show there really isn't anything where by the show affected the films. It's a one way street and as such the show is reactive to what happens on film. This made the first season DEADLY dull (among other things) until it started playing off of TWS. But... That didn't really make it a better show for many, and neither is hitting us over the head with the fact that it's part of the MCU.

Now DAREDEVIL on Netflix is a diferent animal. Quality all around and it was subtle to the point of secrecy almost when it came to it's MCU connection... And it didn't hurt the stories told on the show in the least. Which then begs... Did it even really NEED to be part of the MCU? Knowing DD was in the same universe didn't make Vincent's Kingpin any better or worse, it didn't make the fight choreography better or worse and it didn't make the scripts or direction any better or worse.

So WB going another way is fine with me since as we've seen so far, connecting the TV shows doesn't enhance things on either end.

 

[Naked Shia]

Yeah, I think the TV shows are fine and all but... They have problems lets say? And on the Marvel side of things it hasn't been this huge boon of entertainment that has given the MCU some extra depth. Right now Marvel is officially 1 and 1 with series. AoS is a mess STILL and on that show there really isn't anything where by the show affected the films. It's a one way street and as such the show is reactive to what happens on film. This made the first season DEADLY dull (among other things) until it started playing off of TWS. But... That didn't really make it a better show for many, and neither is hitting us over the head with the fact that it's part of the MCU.

Now DAREDEVIL on Netflix is a diferent animal. Quality all around and it was subtle to the point of secrecy almost when it came to it's MCU connection... And it didn't hurt the stories told on the show in the least. Which then begs... Did it even really NEED to be part of the MCU? Knowing DD was in the same universe didn't make Vincent's Kingpin any better or worse, it didn't make the fight choreography better or worse and it didn't make the scripts or direction any better or worse.

So WB going another way is fine with me since as we've seen so far, connecting the TV shows doesn't enhance things on either end.

True.

Not to mention having the tv show set in their own universe make the idea of a multiverse a possibility (even though there probably won't be one officially).

 

[Tv's Phil]

Wait, wouldn't the TV show NOT being set in the same universe make the multiverse a possibility?
Being in the same universe implies there just going with one.

 

[Naked Shia]

Wait, wouldn't the TV show NOT being set in the same universe make the multiverse a possibility?
Being in the same universe implies there just going with one.

that's what I said. the tv shows in their own universe.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Am I the only one who wishes WB would combine the DCCU with the Flash/Arrow-verses?

Flash and Arrow already look like they stepped out of the DCCU.

Yes. Yes you are.

 

[Binker]

Yes. Yes you are.

No he isn't. Alot of people would want this.

Then again, much like why Supergirl isn't in universe with Flash and Arrow; if they did exist, then the question popping up would be why those characters did not reference anything from MOS, or Superman, or anything related to Batman since he's been around for 20 years, throughout their shows since the beginning? And just to point this out: Supergirl couldn't exist in the DCEU, because anything associated with Superman in terms of events would contradict themselves. For example: in Supergirl, Superman debuted saving a plane; in MOS, Superman revealed himself in hopes of to save the world by surrendering to Zod.

So while it is a dream to have a DCEU both in movies and TV, the truth is there are alot of factors going against that idea in their continuities. So the DCEU is just in movies, while the TV ones are just DCTV only.

If there could be a tv series set in the DCEU, it can not be Arrow, Flash, obviously Supergirl, Legends, or anything we know are still airing now. It would to be something else completely, and chances are, may not see the light of day until after 2020.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Keep movies and TV universe's separate. and if the TV shows are still on air after 2020 then we could maybe talk of a Crisis on Infinite Earth's storyline.

 

[Verick808]

Definitely don't want them mixing and it's pretty much impossible now minus any multiverse possibilities. Different Katana, different Deadshot, different Captain Boomerang.
And in what world would Oliver be chosen as heir to the Demon when Bruce is around?

 

[Best]

Yeah, I think the TV shows are fine and all but... They have problems lets say? And on the Marvel side of things it hasn't been this huge boon of entertainment that has given the MCU some extra depth. Right now Marvel is officially 1 and 1 with series. AoS is a mess STILL and on that show there really isn't anything where by the show affected the films. It's a one way street and as such the show is reactive to what happens on film. This made the first season DEADLY dull (among other things) until it started playing off of TWS. But... That didn't really make it a better show for many, and neither is hitting us over the head with the fact that it's part of the MCU.

Now DAREDEVIL on Netflix is a diferent animal. Quality all around and it was subtle to the point of secrecy almost when it came to it's MCU connection... And it didn't hurt the stories told on the show in the least. Which then begs... Did it even really NEED to be part of the MCU? Knowing DD was in the same universe didn't make Vincent's Kingpin any better or worse, it didn't make the fight choreography better or worse and it didn't make the scripts or direction any better or worse.

So WB going another way is fine with me since as we've seen so far, connecting the TV shows doesn't enhance things on either end.

You're talking as if Daredevil wasn't renewed for a second season or won't appear in The Defenders.

The intention was made clear that they wanted to establish the character and that world before any major crossover/influence would occur to the larger MCU. And I'm not getting you. It's as if because you don't enjoy AoS, you wish it weren't MCU, and because you enjoy Daredevil so much, you wish the same thing?

These shows do give the MCU depth. They don't have to affect the films yet for that statement to be true. The films aren't the only things that make the MCU anymore.

 

[Best]

A DCEU would truly be extended by TV. In a great way.

 

[Naked Shia]

You're talking as if Daredevil wasn't renewed for a second season or won't appear in The Defenders.

The intention was made clear that they wanted to establish the character and that world before any major crossover/influence would occur to the larger MCU. And I'm not getting you. It's as if because you don't enjoy AoS, you wish it weren't MCU, and because you enjoy Daredevil so much, you wish the same thing?

These shows do give the MCU depth. They don't have to affect the films yet for that statement to be true. The films aren't the only things that make the MCU anymore.

Apart from some easter eggs, Daredevil really felt like its own thing though.

A DCEU would truly be extended by TV. In a great way.

it would also put a lot of limits for both the movies and the tv shows.

 

[DOBSON10]

I wouldn't mind seeing some TV shows that are connected to the movies, but not the current DC shows. The current shows are already too far along to add them to the DCU and the writing/acting is too subpar overall. They should remain separate.

 

[Bran The Man]

I don't mind them keeping the universes separate. I'm just glad we're getting all of these DC characters at once, regardless of the medium. Superman on the big screen, Supergirl on the small screen. Batman on the big screen, and maybe Dick Grayson on the small screen if the Titans show ever gets off the ground.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You're talking as if Daredevil wasn't renewed for a second season or won't appear in The Defenders.

The intention was made clear that they wanted to establish the character and that world before any major crossover/influence would occur to the larger MCU. And I'm not getting you. It's as if because you don't enjoy AoS, you wish it weren't MCU, and because you enjoy Daredevil so much, you wish the same thing?

I am well aware that DD was renewed for a second season and that it's part of the MCU and that DD will take part in THE DEFENDERS. In fact... Nowhere was there even an oblique reference to any of those issues so... Huh?

As for the rest, let me perhaps be more blunt. AoS was and is a bad show (IMO... Since it's perfectly fine for you or anyone else to think differently), and I highly doubt that it's gonna get any better. It's flaws are now baked in, one of which is the constant pimping for the films rather than being even a quasi independent piece on it's own. And now, after YEARS mind you it's still a one way street. The films feed into SHIELD and CARTER, but there doesn't seem to be any chance any time soon of the shows feeding into the films. The shows are reactive to the film series, which was why (IMO) that the first season of AoS suffered, though general quality of stories and the cast (outside of Phil and May, the cast is terrible... IMO) aren't anything to write home about. So, again, it being in the MCU hasn't made it good, isn't making it relevant to the films really, and makes the shows more reactive than creative.

DD on the other hand is pretty widely praised for it's quality, it's cast, the individual stories each episode, the setting up of larger arcs and the direction for many episodes. Hell, my grandmother born in 1932 enjoyed DD, and believe me she has little idea about the connections to the MCU. Nor in fact do I think most people that say the series since it's connection was so opaque to the films that anything from background Easter Eggs to dialog that referenced the connection could be excised and the show would not lose a step. Again... It being MCU connected didn't make it GOOD. It being GOOD made it GOOD. The fine cast, good scripts and creative Directors made it quality, not whether or not a fanboy at home can imagine Cox meeting RDJ, theoretically.

So we see that the connection to the MCU didn't make AoS good cause it's not good and we see that DD would be good whether it had it's connection or not, seeing as it's such a small part of the show it could be cut out completely and not lose a step.

And I have to ask... How long will it be until the promise of truly connecting the shows to the films even "pays off" with anything meaningful to fans? When will the TV shows start affecting the films and not the other way? Outside of Sam Jackson and Alexander doing them a solid, when are the other and certainly bigger than Alexander (Sam is... well he's Sam but he wasn't really a big part of season one was he?) names going to do a guest starring role on TV of consequence? The converse is also true... When are the show characters going to be useful and have impact while working with the likes of RDJ and Hemmsworth? If it's not really germane to the films and it's not making a difference qualitatively (AoS is crap despite of the connection... DD would have been quality regardless) then is it something fans who are for it want just so that they can sleep better at night knowing that Tony Stark is in Avengers Tower working on something and he COULD give Matt Murdock a call if he wanted?


Let the DCEU be different. Let those that enjoy the TV shows, whether Gotham, or Flash or Legends or Supergirl concentrate on their show. Let the fans get what they want in different forms and different places. I certainly don't think the Burton/Shumacher films needed to link up with the Timm show to enhance either. Batman Forever and Batman And Robin don't automatically become better products just because suddenly they get at connection to Timm's work.

I am excited for the other Netflix shows and look forward to Marvel crossing them over but I aint holding my breath for Skye to be fighting alongside ScarJo anytime soon on either screen. I don't NEED that and I don't NEED to see Benoist and Cavill meeting either. Let them be what ever they are with little affect on each other is my view.

 

[KillerWolf]

Regarding connecting DC TV shows and DCEU, I find it to be worst possible decision if they went this way (which I am rather convinced they won't). Even if they go with multiverse approach and avoid restricting the main world of DCEU by connecting it with the TV show world, forcing audience to watch hours and hours of (crap) TV shows or to feel like they're missing something if they don't dedicate their time to do so is far from good approach. Also, it dilutes the universe by branching it out this way. I personally much prefer a strong and cohesive arc, from the beginning to the end.

As for MCU, only thing I watched of their TV shows is "Daredevil" and they managed to pull it by pretty much ignoring MCU movies. Unlike other MCU shows, it can be considered as a separated, standalone storyline. Still, even couple of quick references they made to the movies felt like they didn't really belong in the show and didn't work with its overall vibe to me.

I have heard though that there have been some contradictions between some of their other shows and the movies. Quite naturally, as it is very hard to juggle so many balls. So, as I said, doing so has much more cons than pros and strong cohesive storytelling of separated film universe beats this approach by far.

 

[chamber-music]

I say keep them separate.

Tonally the CW shows and Supergirl don't fit with what we have seen of the DC films. It also make no sense. If Superman existed and was in the public spotlight in the CW universe then he would of been mentioned by now.

We will have two different Deadshots, Captain Boomerangs and Flash as well which doesn't make sense in a shared film & TV universe. I don't want CW's Ra's being the shame one that faced Affleck's Batman.

None of these film actors are going to cameo in the TV shows either so all you will get is references to stuff happening in the films. You run the risk of limiting what stories you can tell on the TV shows as we know the films take precedence for DC.

Jeph Loeb said the that Daredevil and the Defenders are the most part separate from the film characters for the time being. The MCU stuff was much more in the background and the show's success was its own little world of Hell's Kitchen.

Agent's Of SHEILD and Agent Carter fill in the cracks of the Marvel universe. Both of those shows are limited in where they can go with certain things because the movies are the main plot driver of the universe.

 

[queendarkness12]

When I saw the trailer.

I thought the people on horseback had some relation to Wonder Woman and Themyscira for some reason.