• Super Maintenance

    Xenforo Cloud upgraded our forum to XenForo version 2.3.4. This update has created styling issues to our current templates.

    Starting January 9th, site maintenance is ongoing until further notice, but please report any other issues you may experience so we can look into.

    We apologize for the inconvenience.

Comics Amazing Spider-Man #595 - #599 "American Son" spoilers/discussion

stillanerd

Sidekick
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
3,852
Reaction score
42
Points
33
Well, Joe Kelly and Phil Jiminez's "American Son" five part story arc started today with issue #595.

Here's a recap for those who don't want to buy it

The issue starts off Peter and Harry kicking back, barefoot, and relaxing in Central Park. Harry mentions to Peter that his favorite temperature is seventy-six degrees Fahrenheit. Why? ask Peter. Because, Harry explains, that's the temperature that's statistically proven to be the point in which people began to feel warm and start removing their clothes. Just before the reader might start thinking Peter and Harry have just turned gay all of the sudden (I know, I know, it's a cheap joke, but I couldn't resist) Harry spots two gorgeous babes and decides to flirt with them, using Peter as his "wingman" much to Peter's embarrassment. Harry basically tells these women that Peter is too shy around women because he doesn't know how to start a conversation, then tells him he has five seconds to come up with a good pickup line. Peter nervously tells them he's a photographer and the two women give him dirty looks, to which Peter tries to explain he doesn't take "those kind of pictures." Harry then tells the girls that not only did they cost him a cup of coffee, but that he lost a bet with Peter that, despite being gorgeous, they would be shallow. So, he and Peter pretend to leave when the two girls insist they're not shallow and "can we start this over." And yes, this ends up with Harry getting both of their phone numbers. (Yes, folks, this scene has essentially made both Peter and Harry how they were portrayed in the Spider-Man movies. Not to mention makes Peter look like a dork in front of his pimp of a best friend, Harry, because, hey, in the eyes of the braintrust, Peter as the loveable loser is "COM-O-DY".)

Anyways, Peter marvels at how Harry managed to pull off getting the girl's numbers, and also asks Harry if his newfound positive outlook is all for show. Harry admits that this might have been the case a few months ago (no dobut referring to finding out Lily was Menace and his falling off the wagon again) but now he's got a new outlook and is going to take it one day at a time. Peter remarks in the narrative captions that this is why he loves Harry (no not in THAT way) and why he's his best friend. However, the "bromance" is spoiled when the "Dark Avengers" craft soars overhead. Peter complains about how there's just no getting away from Norman Osborn, but Harry just brushes it off, saying his dad and his Avengers can have the sky while they'll do fine in "the real world."

We cut back to Frontline, in which Peter, at the staff meeting, tries to pitch an idea to Ben Urich on an expose expossing Norman Osborn, only the staff doesn't take it seriously. Urich asks Peter what evidence he has and Peter starts listing off how Norman's jail sentence had been communted under sealed executive order for him to run the Thunderbolts that are staffed with "psychopaths" that violate civil liberties, how he's such as good "nazi" (and thus already loosing the agrument because he used the Godwin's Law) he was promoted to HAMMER without any congressional oversight (although he says Senate and Congress as though they are two different things in the United States Government), that he hijacked the Avengers, and--just in case everyone has forgotten--he was the Green Goblin. Norah Winters responds to this by handing Peter a note which reads "Righteous hostility is totally hot. Take me out to dinner and lets go punch Nancy Pelosi in the face." (LOL)

Urich responds that, as much as he wants to take Osborn down, they still need to follow the golden rule of journalism--proof before print (yeah, like that's stopped your fellow reporter Sally "Captain America is irrelevant because he doesn't know what MySpace is" Floyd). He also points out that Obsorn's records are sealed, that he's protected by both the Patriot and Registration Acts, and that people have forgiven Osborn despite being the Green Goblin because he stopped an alien invasion. Peter then says that Urich is just scared like everybody else. After a moment of silence, Urich responds not to mistake professionalism for fear, and that Frontline can't afford to go out half-cocked. Essentially, they have to get something legit on Osborn done "smart" and done "right." Norah, after the meeting is over, asks Peter what up with him, and Peter blows it off as he leaves. Norah then muses that Peter is "doth whine too much" and says "knock knock, Ozzy" thus implying she's going to do some digging on her own (thus essentially confirming that Norah is Lois Lane with blond dye job--or at least Chole Sullivan.)

We then cut to Spidey telling Wolverine how they are going to break into Avenger's Tower when Wolverine interupts him with a rap on the head (Spidey's reaction is pretty funny, BTW). Wolverine, reminds Spidey that the New Avengers tried the direct approach before and why is Spidey gunning to go at it again. Spidey tells Logan how it's all his fault, that all the times Norman was the Green Goblin, he had the chance to kill him but didn't take it. Logan then asks whether Spidey is looking to bring a man out of power or to kill him because those are two different things. He then tells Spidey guys like themselves play "the long game"--that while it comes to "bullets and blades" with punks and life or death situations, it's patience that brings "establishment guys" like Obsorn down every time, even makes a George W. Bush crack while he's at it, followed by a mutual fist pump between himself and Spidey (Gee, I wonder who Kelly voted for last election?) Spidey comments about how weird it is to hear Logan talk about patience and makes sense, and Logan tells Spidey he's been around long enough to see everything once. However, as he goes, he tells Spidey that when Norman falls and Spidey has a chance to give Norman his due, that Spidey should end it...permenantly.

We next see Peter, Harry, J. Jonah Jameson, Aunt May, and Jonah's father, Jay, at Gracie Mansion, with Harry taking pictures of Peter and Jonah. Peter and Jonah verbally spar back and forth while posing, while Aunt May helps to fix Jonah's hair, and Harry jokes that maybe he'll title Peter and Jonah's picture "brothers" and how he's sent it online. Jonah pulls Peter aside and tells Peter that they have to work together to stop the wedding of Aunt May and Jay. Peter, however, says that both his Aunt and Jonah's father appear very happy and that they should, despite their mutual dislike, they'll just have to get used to the idea of being cousins.

A final guest arrives at the mansion and it's Norman Osborn. Obsorn gives Aunt May and Jay a toast, Peter insists to Harry he didn't know his father would show up (jezz, it almost sound like Peter is his boyfriend), and Jonah attempts to brown nose Osborn by inviting him to sit next to his dad (so much for those who wanted to see Jonah and Obsorn go at it. Continuity falls victim yet again!) Jay, however, tells his son that May and him have to be going, but Jonah urges him to stay since Osborn is the most powerful man in the country. Osborn, however, tells Jonah that Aunt May and him have some history that might make her uncomfortable and decides its best if he leaves. Jay takes the opportunity to call Osborn a "professional thug" and that he "hides his lust for power and contempt for the people behind the American flag" which of course, impresses Peter (and thus cements the idea that Jay is a total Marty Stu). Osborn makes a dig at the fact that Jay was "dishonorably discharged" from the military, promting Harry to finally ask why his dad is here. Osborn tells Harry that since Jonah told him Peter was bringing Harry (because, you know, its a "bromance") and that Harry refused to answer his calls or letters, that he wanted to see Harry because he's his son and to make him an offer...he wants Harry to join the Avengers. (Gee, guess we know who the new NFL Superpro known as American Son is going to be. [sarcasm]What a shock.[/sarcasm]). Harry however, laughs in his dad's face and nonchanlantly walks away (wow. Harry stood up to his dad for once in his life. You know, of course, that's not going to last). Peter, however, in narration, knows that Norman Osborn won't give up that easily.

We then cut back to Harry at his apartment, talking to himself about how his father didn't get to him, when who should show up but everybody's favortie hermathoridtic goblin knock-off Menace (ugh!). Harry wants to know what Lily is doing there and Lily, after musing that maybe she just wants to say hi or kill him, talks about how hard it is think, and tries to wrestle control of herself from being influenced by the Goblin formula. She manages to transform back into Lily, and reveals to Harry that she didn't come to fight but to show him something (and based on Harry's reaction, I'm guessing you know what it is, right?)

We cut back to Norman in his limo talking to his assistant Ms. Hand. She wants to address Bullseye/Hawkeye's poor public opinion while Norman wants to talk about his son, when Spidey shows up to rip off the roof of the limo and--in a homage to Amazing Spider-Man #39--tows Norman behind him in his webbing. Spidey then proceeds to beat the crap out of Norman--who doesn't fight back mind you--while Spidey tells him that they're no longer playing by the old rules and tells him that Harry is no longer his son and that he's not going to be another person he takes him away from him (Okay, I'm really starting to rethink that first scene in the park--because taken out of context, it's as though Spidey is acting like Harry's his boyfriend. Ah, but remember--"bromance!")

Norman then tells Spidey that, compared to what he's done to Spidey in the past that it's nothing compared to the hell Spidey's brought on himself tonight, and that Osborn MADE Harry and can do any damn thing he wants with him. Spidey, remembering Wolverine's words, proceeds to actually land a killing blow on Norman when Norman's cell phone rings. Norman, smirking answers his phone, and shows Spidey that it's Harry and that he's accepted his offer to join the Avengers. Spidey walks away in angry defeat while Norman laughs manically. (Hmm, it's almost like he knew this was going to happen. [sarcasm] I'm sure it's got NOTHING to do with Lily, though.[/sarcasm]

The final page shows Harry telling Lily that he's accepted his dad's offer to gain his trust and (oh no, please no) we see Harry lovingly kneeling at a teary-eyed Lily, with his head and hand resting against (No, no, NO!) Lily's very visibly pregnant belly, promising her he'll take care of her and their unborn son. (ARRRGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!)

(Yes folks, get ready for SINS PAST II!...if Harry isn't the father that is.)

Seriously, having read this, I'd have to say this was actually a pretty decent start to this storyline. The dialogue is good, with each character's voice distinct, and Jiminez's artwork is also nicely done (although, there was a mistake with Spidey having no webs on his mask in one panel, and there seems to be a bit of wasted space in some cases). I do, however, have a few misgivings mixed in with the good, though, especially since I think we can already see how the pieces are starting to fit even though it's only been one issue.

Still, reservations aside, so far, American Son is starting off on a pretty good note.
 
I found it entertaining. A few jokes here and there.
 
I thought most of it was well-written. However, havin' not followed Spidey religiously since BND started, I was able to predict WHO American Son would be. The REASONS, however, were the reas surprise if not cliched.
 
Okay. So it looks like we have two flavors with Spidey. He's either an ineffective woos, or he's a super-powered thug,
who makes idiotic attacks in public on authority figures (Cops in 24/7 and now Osborn).
Yeah. That'll buy him alot of leverage if he ever did get the goods on Osborn. That'll really help to defeat the No-Masked-Man act.

He can't be his level headed, driven self, using his powers and intellect to find conclusive evidence on Osborn that'll put him away for the rest of his life (Something Peter should have done immediately after Osborn's return, to get justice for Gwen).

And how about that Harry?
He's faced with a super human psychotic. And he doesn't suggest they get some medical/mental health specialists to try and get her straight. He doesn't want her to immediately get care for this unborn-innocent (We're talking about a crack-baby 1000 fold). Nope. He indulges her madness by offering to marry her. Because as we all know, marriage makes everything okay. Especially shotgun marriages.

What really irks me about BND Harry (Aside from his being alive at all) is that, he's sure that this side-show freak is the woman he loves. But what about Liz, the one who stuck by, supported, even defended him throughout all of his insanity? Her he gives the shaft.

And silly question- Norman doesn't know Spidey's ID since BND, right? So why would Spidey mention about the people Norman's taken from him? For that matter- how could Norman have killed Gwen at all, since her death depended on knowing Peter's identity? What history would he have with May? (Yeah, I know about MK Spidey, but no ID, no kinapping May) Further, how could Peter know Norman's identity, since Norman's unmasking is dependent on Peter being unmasked? I've gone crossed-eyed. Have they explained any of this?
 
Norman doesn't know who Spidey is because of the yet-to-be-explained plot device. All that history still happened, though. The erasing of Norman's memory of who Peter is is a recent thing.

Though it does bring up an interesting point. Up till now, I was assuming that the yet-to-be-explained plot device was going to erase everyone's memory of Peter unmasking during the Civil War. But apparently it's a very targeted device they're going to use, one that erases the Peter Parker/Spider-Man connection from everyone's mind, regardless of when or how they discovered it.

Dumb.
 
I was cracking up at the Peter/JJJ interaction... and having May wipe a smudge of JJJ's face with her saliva was priceless...

:woot: :woot: :woot:

:yay:
 
Absolutley loved this issue. Had some great moments(Peter and JJJ whispering to each other, Wolverine and Spider-Man fist-pound).
 
Seriously, having read this, I'd have to say this was actually a pretty decent start to this storyline. The dialogue is good, with each character's voice distinct, and Jiminez's artwork is also nicely done (although, there was a mistake with Spidey having no webs on his mask in one panel, and there seems to be a bit of wasted space in some cases). I do, however, have a few misgivings mixed in with the good, though, especially since I think we can already see how the pieces are starting to fit even though it's only been one issue.

Still, reservations aside, so far, American Son is starting off on a pretty good note.[/QUOTE]

Aloha,
I wasn't sure if that was a mistake or artistic license. On those two pages we had a Red mask(Scarlet Spider) and a Black mask Spider-Man along with the classic.
Spidey rules
 
Seriously, having read this, I'd have to say this was actually a pretty decent start to this storyline. The dialogue is good, with each character's voice distinct, and Jiminez's artwork is also nicely done (although, there was a mistake with Spidey having no webs on his mask in one panel, and there seems to be a bit of wasted space in some cases). I do, however, have a few misgivings mixed in with the good, though, especially since I think we can already see how the pieces are starting to fit even though it's only been one issue.

Still, reservations aside, so far, American Son is starting off on a pretty good note.

Aloha,
I wasn't sure if that was a mistake or artistic license. On those two pages we had a Red mask(Scarlet Spider) and a Black mask Spider-Man along with the classic.
Spidey rules[/quote]


The thing about the no webs thing isn't a mistake. Artists use that to incorporate strong light and depth, in fact, in other comics Spidey has no webs from afar, and sometimes up close. It's shown especially a lot in Ultimate Spider-Man. When doing the comic the "name" is done first (not an actual name, but sort of like a manuscript) I'm sure after the artist received the name , they discussed each panel and I guess they came to a decision not to add the web details on the suit.
The same goes for the black thing, Spidey was indeed in the bg, and I believe the CG artist over emphasized the vertical placement and overlapping of colors. It's supposed to turn your focus on the other character.

I can still be wrong, but that's what I learned in Comic Book Illustration.
 
And silly question- Norman doesn't know Spidey's ID since BND, right? So why would Spidey mention about the people Norman's taken from him? For that matter- how could Norman have killed Gwen at all, since her death depended on knowing Peter's identity? What history would he have with May? (Yeah, I know about MK Spidey, but no ID, no kinapping May) Further, how could Peter know Norman's identity, since Norman's unmasking is dependent on Peter being unmasked? I've gone crossed-eyed. Have they explained any of this?
:whatever:
Again everything still happened the way it did in the past. Norman knew Peter's identity THEN , he just doesn't know NOW. Same with MK Spidey and and why would Peter forget Norman's identity? Your over thinking this way too much about something that they have explained since day one.
 
:whatever:
Again everything still happened the way it did in the past. Norman knew Peter's identity THEN , he just doesn't know NOW. Same with MK Spidey and and why would Peter forget Norman's identity? Your over thinking this way too much about something that they have explained since day one.

Or are you underthinking it?
IF Peter knows Norman's identity, then he knows the mindwipe happened, since he and Norman learned each others' identities simultaneuosly. An all-encompassing hand blasting memories from the minds of billions of people would give a reasonable person pause. It might even make them wonder why? What will the cost be to me for this- "generosity"?

And if Spidey knows that Norman doesn't know his ID, then why would he mention Norman taking someone from him, since Norman wouldn't know what he's talking about? And saying such a thing puts Peter's ID in jeopardy all over again, which makes him an idiot.

Next, Norman would have to wonder how he knew to target Gwen or May. Killing someone tends to leave an impression on a person.

It doesn't matter that they printed some words in passing "on day one". If the explanation isn't a good one, they should be held accountable for it. And your willingness to accept dumbness doesn't put you in a position to criticize someone for not.
 
Aloha,
I wasn't sure if that was a mistake or artistic license. On those two pages we had a Red mask(Scarlet Spider) and a Black mask Spider-Man along with the classic.
Spidey rules


The thing about the no webs thing isn't a mistake. Artists use that to incorporate strong light and depth, in fact, in other comics Spidey has no webs from afar, and sometimes up close. It's shown especially a lot in Ultimate Spider-Man. When doing the comic the "name" is done first (not an actual name, but sort of like a manuscript) I'm sure after the artist received the name , they discussed each panel and I guess they came to a decision not to add the web details on the suit.
The same goes for the black thing, Spidey was indeed in the bg, and I believe the CG artist over emphasized the vertical placement and overlapping of colors. It's supposed to turn your focus on the other character.

I can still be wrong, but that's what I learned in Comic Book Illustration.[/QUOTE]

Aloha,
So I guess it was artistic license!
Spidey rules
 
Or are you underthinking it?
IF Peter knows Norman's identity, then he knows the mindwipe happened, since he and Norman learned each others' identities simultaneuosly. An all-encompassing hand blasting memories from the minds of billions of people would give a reasonable person pause. It might even make them wonder why? What will the cost be to me for this- "generosity"?
Peter is aware of the mindwipe, hes stated so in the comics. They have yet to reveal what he he and his "partner" did to cause the mindwipe.

And if Spidey knows that Norman doesn't know his ID, then why would he mention Norman taking someone from him, since Norman wouldn't know what he's talking about? And saying such a thing puts Peter's ID in jeopardy all over again, which makes him an idiot.

Next, Norman would have to wonder how he knew to target Gwen or May. Killing someone tends to leave an impression on a person.

It doesn't matter that they printed some words in passing "on day one". If the explanation isn't a good one, they should be held accountable for it. And your willingness to accept dumbness doesn't put you in a position to criticize someone for not.
I'm not saying its PEREFECTION, I'm saying that your criticizing the comic for things they have explained already. Whether or not its "Good Writing" is a different story.
 
Peter is aware of the mindwipe, hes stated so in the comics. They have yet to reveal what he he and his "partner" did to cause the mindwipe.

I know all that. My issue becomes that Peter's behavior in knowing this is unreasonable. Stupid even.

I'm not saying its PEREFECTION, I'm saying that your criticizing the comic for things they have explained already. Whether or not its "Good Writing" is a different story.

Well, first off, my point is that it is bad writing. Secondly, since the writing in this story is built off of the already poorly written premise, it makes this story that much worse. It's like trying to build additional stories on the leaning tower of Pisa.

And since Marvel retcons things like people change underwear, one would think that by now they'd try to clarify and rectify the iffy explanations so that their current stories make sense, rather than demanding that onecheck their brains at the door to get through an issue.
 
He went after Aunt May because of Spider-Man's connection to Peter Parker.

He went after Gwen because of Sins Past.

As for Peter screaming at Osborn for taking things from him even though Osborn remembers nothing. What's the point? There is none, Peter is just pissed off.
 
He went after Aunt May because of Spider-Man's connection to Peter Parker.

What connection to Peter Parker? That Peter takes pictures of him?

He went after Gwen because of Sins Past.

Sins Past isn't canon anymore. No Goblin twins.

As for Peter screaming at Osborn for taking things from him even though Osborn remembers nothing. What's the point? There is none, Peter is just pissed off.

So he's going to take a chance of endangering those he loves AGAIN brcause he's pissed off? That would make him an idiot.

Oh yeah- and would May actually be in the same room with the man who tried to murder her? Would Peter allow that? Not to mention the man who killed the woman Peter loved. Does that seem plausible?
 
Last edited:
Sins Past isn't canon anymore. No Goblin twins.

I thought they said that even Sins Past happened (much as they would probably like it not to have). When was it stated otherwise?
 
I thought they said that even Sins Past happened (much as they would probably like it not to have). When was it stated otherwise?


In ASM #546, when they're running down the new continuity, Sin Past is excised. And they say that Gwen was killed during a battle between Spidey and the Gobln, not that she was targeted by the Goblin for the reasons noted in SP. Granted, they don't say specifically that SP didn't happen, but they also don't say that May's house wasn't blown up.

When did they say hat SP is still in effect?
 
What connection to Peter Parker? That Peter takes pictures of him?

Yes.

Sins Past isn't canon anymore. No Goblin twins.

Yes it is. The grey goblin was referenced in the first menace arc and Osborn mentioned it in Thunderbolts


So he's going to take a chance of endangering those he loves AGAIN brcause he's pissed off? That would make him an idiot.

What danger were they in?
Oh yeah- and would May actually be in the same room with the man who tried to murder her? Would Peter allow that? Not to mention the man who killed the woman Peter loved. Does that seem plausible?

Osbor showed up without Peter knowing he was coming.
 
In ASM #546, when they're running down the new continuity, Sin Past is excised. And they say that Gwen was killed during a battle between Spidey and the Gobln, not that she was targeted by the Goblin for the reasons noted in SP. Granted, they don't say specifically that SP didn't happen, but they also don't say that May's house wasn't blown up.

When did they say hat SP is still in effect?

I remember the recap that you're talking about, but I never got the feeling that Sins Past was taken out. I mean, they didn't specifically refer to it, but they didn't refer to Spidey's first meeting with the Grizzly either, and I assume that still happened.

I remember some interviews (can't remember what or who though) where they were addressing the "what still counts" thing, and there always seemed to be a comment along the lines of "yes, even Sins Past counts." Sort of, as if to say, "Hey, if we left that in, you can be assured that everything else is still in." Sorry I can't be more specific. Something tells me that at least one of them was a Wacker interview.
 
From what I've heard as well, it all happened with the exception to the Parker/Watson marriage and the new thing JQ recently brought up, which is probably the "death" of Ben Reilley...

And as far as how the dynamics of it all works, everybody that knew Peter's ID at the time knew his ID, hence why the stories developped the way they did... but those memories are now blurred, Norman remembers what happened, but he just can't picture Peter's face...similar to the Torch's memories in the recent ASM #590/591 two-parter... so all those past stories, along with the raisons d'être, still works...

You may think it's stupid, and maybe the end result will be stupid, but the story has yet to be told, so I'll pass judgement until I read it, but regardless of how it works, we've seen stupid explanations before in the past (ie, Sins Past) as to how things fit into continuity, and I for one appreciates the effort that Marvel is putting into the stories to make them work as oposed to the DC method of simply "starting over".

Cheers,

:yay:
 
eyahh... hmm... wonder who ends up in the armored outfit..
 
From what I've heard as well, it all happened with the exception to the Parker/Watson marriage and the new thing JQ recently brought up, which is probably the "death" of Ben Reilley...

And as far as how the dynamics of it all works, everybody that knew Peter's ID at the time knew his ID, hence why the stories developped the way they did... but those memories are now blurred, Norman remembers what happened, but he just can't picture Peter's face...similar to the Torch's memories in the recent ASM #590/591 two-parter... so all those past stories, along with the raisons d'être, still works...

You may think it's stupid, and maybe the end result will be stupid, but the story has yet to be told, so I'll pass judgement until I read it, but regardless of how it works, we've seen stupid explanations before in the past (ie, Sins Past) as to how things fit into continuity, and I for one appreciates the effort that Marvel is putting into the stories to make them work as oposed to the DC method of simply "starting over".

Cheers,

:yay:

Well, again, just so we're clear- never take my criticisms of the comics as criticisms of you guys for liking them. On the contrary, i give you props for being able to find something to enjoy about this stuff.

And I really am giving these stories a chance. That I'm actually following them rather than simply accepting Spidey and Marvel as dead to me, at least until new management is put in place says that. It's just that when I turn these pages, I'm just struck by the dumbness. That Peter isn't who he's supposed to be. That his reactions are routinely not of someone of his personality, background, intelligence and experience. That straight-up, i don't like this guy. Yeah- there are some funny moments here and there. Yeah, alot of the artwork (Though not so much the story-telling) is pretty cool. But for me, that can't make up for the problems.

I just feel that Marvel could, should be doing better than this. And I won't stop expecting that they do.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
201,243
Messages
21,928,962
Members
45,725
Latest member
alwaysgrateful9
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"