An Argument For A Batman Who Is At The Peak Of Human Conditioning.

Discussion in 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' started by D.P., Sep 27, 2013.

  1. DA_Champion

    DA_Champion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    10,540
    Likes Received:
    1
    It's certainly true that it is always hard and intimidating to be the successor to someone incredibly successful.
     
    #26
  2. craigdbfan

    craigdbfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Messages:
    31,174
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's Zack Snyder. Batman will probably fight beyond the ability of a human being at their peak. I mean that both in a literal and visual sense. It was sort of established to us in the Nolan series but through clunky and at times questionable choreography (that's not a dig at the series because anyone that's been here long enough knows I love the Nolan Batman series to death).

    Remember how NiteOwl or Ozymandias fought? Well multiply that times 10 and that's probably the type of stuff Batman will be pulling off.

    Snyder will not waste this opportunity to not show OP (over powered) fighting Batman.

    I for one am super excited to see this because quite frankly that's an area we've never quite seen Batman in. At least when it comes to live action.
     
    #27
  3. TheBat812

    TheBat812 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    6,603
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lol, I can't even think of 10 legitimately great superhero films, and 3 of the top ones I can think of were Nolan films.
     
    #28
  4. DA_Champion

    DA_Champion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    10,540
    Likes Received:
    1
    I think 300 might be a better analogy. Leonidas was in peak human condition, but he wasn't superman, and his imperfections led to many mistakes. For example, he tried to kill Xerxes with a spear and failed, barely. His aim was good, but not perfect.

    Yes, I agree. How many great superhero movies have there been? Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Sin City, X-Men: First Class... and I think those four are stretching it.

    The vast majority of CBMs are very bad.
     
    #29
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  5. D.P.

    D.P. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,451
    Likes Received:
    0
    True indeed, which is what I'm hoping for.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #30
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  6. PacificBoy

    PacificBoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,529
    Likes Received:
    0
    If we can be assured of anything from Snyder, it's this. Batman will be the Ozymandias of the movie, clearly above and beyond the average person. Heck even the average non-superpowered hero.
     
    #31
  7. LordofhouseEl

    LordofhouseEl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Or Snyder might be to scared and may try to emulate what Nolan did, lol imagine if he did that boy would that suck.:csad:
     
    #32
  8. D.P.

    D.P. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,451
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, if there is one thing we will never have to worry about, it's Snyder being scared to do his thing.
     
    #33
  9. craigdbfan

    craigdbfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Messages:
    31,174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Word.

    He wasn't scared doing it with Superman so I doubt he'll be scared doing it with Batman.
     
    #34
  10. LordofhouseEl

    LordofhouseEl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    He listened to people about his slow mo style and even went about using other directors visual flairs, the only thing that was remotely Snyder in MOS with the overblown action. At different points in the film it looked like another directors work. I hope he does his thing with Batman, I know the script will probably be terrible with Goyer at the helm at least we can enjoy the action.
     
    #35
  11. Lantern Venom

    Lantern Venom Lego SUCKS

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    10,494
    Likes Received:
    20
    Whenever I think of Batman, the most logical body type is Lennox Lewis. In fighting condition, Lewis was 6' 5" and 250lbs. He was extremely agile for a heavyweight, and his muscle mass was functional because it was packed on very long limbs. He had the kind of body that made it difficult to get inside on him, and he was strong enough to rattle an opponent with a single punch.

    Moreover, that kind of frame would be difficult to manipulate. As a vigilante who would randomly encounter multiple attackers, Bats would have to have a body and mindset to take out opponents as quickly as possible. That means strength and mass combined with martial arts expertise.

    Now, could someone like that have gymnast agility? Probably not, but it's not out of the realm of extreme plausibility. That's where Batman exists--the outer edge of physical perfection in every aspect.
     
    #36
  12. shallbecomeabat

    shallbecomeabat Yes, father...

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    0
    The idea behind this thread is great, but the fact that it devolved into a Nolan bashing/ TDKT hate thread makes it almost unreadable.

    Bruce was peak human in the Nolan movies. How could he do the vanishing, or beat up 10 highly trained guys at once, if he weren't?!?

    You don't like the choreography or the style? Ok. But don't start trolling.

    Besides that, we will never see a Batman move like you want him to, since its impossible in that kind of suit, especially with the vision and hearing restrictions that the cowl brings with it.

    And @slumcat: you are easily my least favorite poster on the hype. You bring down every thread you enter and just suck any fun out of anything. You are a well mannered troll, but a troll none the less.
     
    #37
  13. Llama_Shepherd

    Llama_Shepherd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    9,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hate to be that guy, but:

    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31494/batman-arkham-asylum/
    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31493/batman-arkham-asylum/
    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31495/batman-arkham-asylum/

    Arkham Asylum sold over 7 million copies and Arkham City:

    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/41799/batman-arkham-city/
    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/41800/batman-arkham-city/
    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/41801/batman-arkham-city/

    Over an addition 8 million. Then there are the special editions of the games for which there aren't any sales figures.

    Also, there's a disparity in media. One is home media, and one is not. For example, a lot of people go and see films more than once, so that would need to be factored in for sales, whereas a game only needs to be bought once, then it can be replayed as many times as you want, it can be lent out, sold and resold, whereas film tickets can't.

    A better example is when home media sales are compared to home media sales, in which Arkham suddenly holds up much, much better. The Arkham franchise all in all contains a little over 16 million sales. Now, The Dark Knight alone beats that with almost 18 million, but The Dark Knight Rises fares much worse, with only just scraping over 5 million sales. So combined TDK/R have 23 million sales compared to Arkham's 16, but that then means Arkham makes up over 75% of that same audience.

    The films reach a wider one-time audience, but but in terms of pop culture conciousness, there isn't massive disparity in the long term impact between series. I'd also like to add Batman '89 outsold The Dark Knight Rises in ticket sales. But cross-media comparisons never work.
     
    #38
  14. D.P.

    D.P. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,451
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks, I thought the idea was great as well, but people seemed more concerned with mincing words and arguing over semantics than staying on topic.

    I don't hate TDKT, I just felt Bruce could have displayed more of his skill. For some reason it was taken as a diss towards Nolan and derailed the thread.

    Also, I wouldn't say never. The suit and a creative team with vision are the only things needed to realize the idea of peak condition, super athletic Batman. We may be in luck with Snyder.

    PM slumcat if you have an issue with him, don't sully the thread. Thanks.
     
    #39
  15. DA_Champion

    DA_Champion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    10,540
    Likes Received:
    1
    I hate to be that guy, but:

    You write down, for example, that The Dark Knight sold 18 million units. Yeah, it sold 18 million DVDs... but that doesn't include the number of blu ray units, the number of digital copies sold, and international sales:
    http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2008/BATM2.php
    Oh yeah, and it doesn't include the platform sales for the platform known as the movie theatre. For that one, ~100,000,000 tickets were sold, implying at least ~50,000,000 viewers.

    Whereas with Batman: Arkham Asylum, you are taking in total sales across every platform (which you're not doing for TDK), and you're including both domestic and international sales figures. That's why you have a less lopsided total, you are cherrypicking your statistics.

    So even if we take the 7 million consumers of Arkham: Asylum, it still does not compare very well at all. It's still an obscure property. I'm glad you enjoy it, I'm glad a lot of people enjoy it, but to argue that the Batman movies should be structured as fan service to consumers of Arkham Asylum the video game is nonsense.
     
    #40
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  16. D.P.

    D.P. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,451
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know, Lennox was pretty damn huge man. I would imagine my ideal real life version of Batman to be built like a gymnast or Olympic swimmer.

    At first mention, you'd probably roll your eyes at the thought of Batman being built like a gymnast or swimmer, but those dudes are solid yet slim and not as bulky. It would allow for him to perform feats of agility but also kick ass.

    Found some more examples of Bruce being a peak level athlete:

    Blindfolded gymnastics...

    [​IMG]

    The balance of a Grayson...

    [​IMG]

    Tight situation...

    [​IMG]
     
    #41
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2013
  17. gdw

    gdw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,867
    Likes Received:
    0
    Regarding sales figures comparisons, there's also the matter of price disparity.
    Video games make BILLIONS far more frequently than films.

    GTA V crossed the $1 billion in just 3 days. Granted, that was a record, but compared to films, Avatar, HP and the Deathly Hollows pt 2, and The Avengers all hit the $1 billion mark in 19 days; Arguably, The Avengers is a bit more impressive as it had only been in North American Markets for 10 days at that point, where as the former two films both opened in NA markets the same week as they did internationally.

    http://filmonic.com/international-b...omes-the-fastest-film-to-ever-reach-1-billion

    On that note, outside of Disney (which has had 5 films hit the big B mark,) no film studio has had more than 2 pictures hit that mark.

    I can't seem to find any indication on how many billion dollar games the different game companies each have, though I imagine it's a tad bit more common.

    Looking at world wide sales, video game sales dwarf films. In some countries, videos games generate more than DOUBLE what films are pulling in WORLD WIDE.

    http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_industry
    http://www.the-numbers.com/market/

    Point of clarification, I'm not sure if those numbers are referring to just total sales, or total profits, which means the comparisons could be a bit off, though video games still dwarf film in terms of money generated in sales.
     
    #42
  18. TheGospelOfMark

    TheGospelOfMark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    0
    Have Batman be like Ozymandias in Watchmen how he moves to avoid thouse gunshots during the assasination attempt. Sneaky quick. I have no doubt that Zack Snyder will make his physicality pretty damn [email protected] and brutal.
     
    #43
  19. chamber-music

    chamber-music Infinity Ammo

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    34,437
    Likes Received:
    7
    I think one of the biggest undressed issues with Batman's physical abilities in his movies has always been the limited movement due to the costumes. It wasn't until the last two movies that actors playing Batman could even turn their heads and you could tell that movement was still limited with the TDK/TDKR suit.

    The Batman fight choreography has been hamstrung by the costumes.
     
    #44
  20. Llama_Shepherd

    Llama_Shepherd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    9,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't realise the results missed out BR releases (not much of an issue for The Dark Knight given the sales would still be heavily DVD based). But seeing a film before home media release is not a "sale" it's a service, you don't own the film, you pay to see someone else's copy.

    I'm not including every media, just the three that it's easiest to find sales for, iOS also sells Arkham stuff.

    This argument was about people wanting Arkham Batman? I only got involved because I saw some incorrect statistics (and then provided my own, so we're both at fault there).

    But this still doesn't mean anything because as I said, cross media comparisons don't work. For example, as someone else pointed out, popular games make more money than films (Arkham isn't that popular even within gaming, it's not to gaming what superheroes are to cinema), so why wouldn't WB take cues from their own projects?
     
    #45
  21. D.P.

    D.P. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,451
    Likes Received:
    0
    Repost of mine from the fighting style thread.

    Peak markmanship with Batarangs:

    Peak agility in an urban landscape:

    [YT]NX7QNWEGcNI[/YT]

    [YT]QlUS5aB-bf0[/YT]

    Amazing feats by Shaolin Monks:

    [​IMG]

    Throwing a needle through a piece of glass.

    [​IMG]

    Monk balancing on two fingers.

    [​IMG]

    Near superhuman speed and reaction time.

    [​IMG]

    Ability to absorb blows at full force.

    Shaolin Monks go through brutal and rigorous mental/physical training in order to reach the peak of human conditioning.

    [​IMG]

    As we know from the comics, Bruce spent many years training under all sorts of masters of various disciplines.

    [​IMG]
     
    #46
  22. Lantern Venom

    Lantern Venom Lego SUCKS

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    10,494
    Likes Received:
    20
    There's nothing wrong with Bats being like a gymnast if this was an origin story, so I wouldn't roll my eyes. But, according to WB, this is supposed to be an "older,grizzled" Batman, not a 22-year-old version. I'm not sure I've ever seen a middle-aged gymnast or swimmer in the Olympics. If so, they were only the exception that proved the rule.

    It seems to me that Affleck (based on a couple of recent pictures) is going for something like the Dark Knight Returns Batman. Now that version was idealized, so Affleck probably won't be able to get that bulky, but I'm guessing that is the template.
     
    #47
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  23. D.P.

    D.P. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,451
    Likes Received:
    0


    They are out there my friend.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

     
    #48
  24. Bren

    Bren Forevernoob

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    3,296
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've always thought Batman would start out for a gymnast's build and powerset and work from there...
     
    #49
  25. B

    B [insert witty comment]

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,965
    Likes Received:
    24
    This.

    I keep thinking of the fight style of Batman in the Arkham Asylum & Arkham City games. Taking on 5 or more untrained thugs at ones hitting them with violent, powerful blows that either put them down or make them think twice about coming back at him again.

    I want to see him actually injure some people who are coming at him. It's a cop out in some films were 1 guy is taking on about 4 or 5 that he somehow knocks them all out & just walks away. I want to see some variation in how he incapacitates people, broken ribs, hands, dislocated shoulders, knees etc. Or via one of his many gadgets that will be I believe we can assume a little more Superman world friendly.
     
    #50

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"