And the biggest hate monger in America award goes to...

[Ace of Knaves]

No, it isn't.

I know gay couples who have raised children who were never tormented because they had two mothers or two fathers raise them. In fact, the majority of children raised by gay couples are no different from those who are raised by heterosexual couples. There is at least one very profound scientific study which I posted here a while back which says the same thing, that children raised by homosexuals experience neither torment, a desire to adhere to their parents' orientation, or developmental problems due to their surroundings.

This is such a stupid claim to make.

Yea maybe you have scientific proof or whatever. But the schools i've been to I guarantee the kid would be bullied to high-heaven, absolutely guarantee it. I wouldn't join in, but there would be plenty of other people who would.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I'm not saying their parenting skills would magically disapear. I'm just saying that I personally find it a little un-nerving that just two random homosexual people can just go and adopt a child.

But it's not un-nerving that two random heterosexual people can just go and adopt a child?

 

[thedeadite]

Why is it so un-nerving?
Please don't use the teasing, predujuiced defence, because that could be solved if parents just taught that homosexuality was normal, instead of saying that it isn't or completely disregarding the issue all together. Much like prejudice and teasing because of race lessened once people starting teaching their children that there really was no difference between the two.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Why?

Because i don't think just any old tom, dick or harry has the right to have a child just like that. If the couple were checked out and suitable and all that then fine. But if anyone and everyone starts having kids then it's detrimental to the child IMO. Like say two piss heads have a child, thats not really fair to the child is it? To be raised in a home like that. It's the same sorta principle.

 

[The Senator]

I'm not saying their parenting skills would magically disapear. I'm just saying that I personally find it a little un-nerving that just two random homosexual people can just go and adopt a child.

You know, this is why the gay movement is suffering. We have spent decades trying to conform to the heteronormative standards set forth by society, and even when we prove that we are just as capable as heterosexuals when it comes to marriage and raising children, it is still considered "unnerving" that we have these options.

Studies show that children raised by homosexuals show no noticeable difference in their development, but despite this, it is "unnerving" that we can go out and adopt a child.

Hell, even despite these studies, there are tremendous hurdles homosexuals face when it comes to child adoption. Such as activist legislators in states like Florida and Arkansas who have made it illegal for gays to adopt, citing "immorality" as a primary reason.

Never mind that the divorce rate in the United States is at the 50% mark, and that children who grow up in broken heterosexual homes far outweighs those brought up in broken homosexual homes, percentage-wise.

Nope, it is unnerving that gays can have children, but it isn't unnerving at all that so many dysfunctional heterosexuals keep popping them out when they can't take care of them, or don't want to take care of them.

The fact that homosexuals are willing to take responsibility by adopting a child, I think, is a noble act. It shows commitment and perseverance on behalf of the parents. And for idiots to say things like it is "unnerving," or for morons like Michael Savage and Bill "Absolute Idiot" Sali to say that the only reason why gays want to adopt is to convert their children to their "lifestyle," is beyond absurd.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

But it's not un-nerving that two random heterosexual people can just go and adopt a child?

Well, yea i do find it un-nerving that any one can just go adopt a child. Obviously if they are check out and can provide a really loving home then it doesn't matter what creed someone is. But you never know these days.

 

[The Senator]

Yea maybe you have scientific proof or whatever. But the schools i've been to I guarantee the kid would be bullied to high-heaven, absolutely guarantee it. I wouldn't join in, but there would be plenty of other people who would.

Scientific evidence vastly outweighs anecdotal evidence. The fact that you want to argue this point further despite scientific studies which refute your claim shows that your opinions aren't rooted in logic.

 

[thedeadite]

Well, yea i do find it un-nerving that any one can just go adopt a child. Obviously if they are check out and can provide a really loving home then it doesn't matter what creed someone is. But you never know these days.

So it's not homosexuals raising kids that is un-nerving to you, but ANYONE raising kids (without being properly screened) that is un-nerving?
I can agree with that, though it opens an entirely different argument and isn't necessarily a good idea.
You made it sound as your issue was with homosexuals adopting children, not anyone in general.

 

[Holiday]

Because i don't think just any old tom, dick or harry has the right to have a child just like that. If the couple were checked out and suitable and all that then fine. But if anyone and everyone starts having kids then it's detrimental to the child IMO. Like say two piss heads have a child, thats not really fair to the child is it? To be raised in a home like that. It's the same sorta principle.

Whoever said a homosexual couple wasn't checked out? Did I miss something? I was under the impression that any couple gay or straight had to be checked out by the adoption agency in order to see if that couple would be fit to raise a child.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

You know, this is why the gay movement is suffering. We have spent decades trying to conform to the heteronormative standards set forth by society, and even when we prove that we are just as capable as heterosexuals when it comes to marriage and raising children, it is still considered "unnerving" that we have these options.

Studies show that children raised by homosexuals show no noticeable difference in their development, but despite this, it is "unnerving" that we can go out and adopt a child.

Hell, even despite these studies, there are tremendous hurdles homosexuals face when it comes to child adoption. Such as activist legislators in states like Florida and Arkansas who have made it illegal for gays to adopt, citing "immorality" as a primary reason.

Never mind that the divorce rate in the United States is at the 50% mark, and that children who grow up in broken heterosexual homes far outweighs those brought up in broken homosexual homes, percentage-wise.

Nope, it is unnerving that gays can have children, but it isn't unnerving at all that so many dysfunctional heterosexuals keep popping them out when they can't take care of them, or don't want to take care of them.

The fact that homosexuals are willing to take responsibility by adopting a child, I think, is a noble act. It shows commitment and perseverance on behalf of the parents. And for idiots to say things like it is "unnerving," or for morons like Michael Savage and Bill "Absolute Idiot" Sali to say that the only reason why gays want to adopt is to convert their children to their "lifestyle," is beyond absurd.

I completely agree with you on the bolded bit. There are too many families like that. Where i live I see 15 year old girls walking around with prams.

And yea maybe it is a noble act. But as I said before you're scientific proof doesn't always mean everything. Life isn't always smelling of roses, a lot of kids, especially from where I live would have a awful time at school if they were in that position.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

It's not like that atall.

I'm thinking of the childs best interests, not because I hate homosexuals. If the child is brought up in a loving family and isn't ridiculed or nothing then great, that's perfect. But I bet 9 times out of 10 that childs life will be harder. Even when they grow up and go out to work there will always be some pregidist towards them. Even subconsiously humans judge people.
Maybe it will be harder for them to socialise. The world isn't all nice and dandy there will always be someone taking the piss out of them for having homosexual parents, it's just common sense to know that. Is that fair or right? No I think it's bang out of order. I wouldn't actually abuse or take the piss out of some one in that position. But there will always be other people who will.

And don't try and say it's the same principle as someone having a single parent or disabled parent because it's not. There was loads of single parent kids at my school and no one would take the piss out of them for that reason.

There's always gonna be someone ready to take the piss out of someone for anything they can find wrong with them, too short, too tall, too skinny, too fat, biracial, wearing glasses, not atheletic enough, etc, etc... Using your logic, only atheletically gifted, perfect sighted, pure genetic nationality people with just the right height and weight should have kids, that way we'll all be equal and no one will be teased again.

As for the single parent thing, what if they found out the parent that was out of the picture was a total loser low life drunk, if kids are gonna make fun of a kid for having gay parents, I'm sure they'll make fun of the low life drunk parent as well. Kids can be very cruel, all they need is the smallest nudge in the right (wrong) direction.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Scientific evidence vastly outweighs anecdotal evidence. The fact that you want to argue this point further despite scientific studies which refute your claim shows that your opinions aren't rooted in logic.

My opinions are rooted in logic. Hop on the plane over here and i'll show you round my area and my schools, i'll show you logic then. I don't need scientific proof to know that if a kid was at my school, with two homosexual parents he would be ridiculed every single day. I know that without resorting to scientific graphs and that, it's called common sense.

 

[The Senator]

I completely agree with you on the bolded bit. There are too many families like that. Where i live I see 15 year old girls walking around with prams.

And yea maybe it is a noble act. But as I said before you're scientific proof doesn't always mean everything. Life isn't always smelling of roses, a lot of kids, especially from where I live would have a awful time at school if they were in that position.

Kids are tormented for a variety of reasons. Until scientific evidence suggests that children adopted by gay couples are overwhelmingly going to be abused by their peers because they were raised by gay parents, you have no point. All studies, in fact, point to the opposite.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

There's always gonna be someone ready to take the piss out of someone for anything they can find wrong with them, too short, too tall, too skinny, too fat, biracial, wearing glasses, not atheletic enough, etc, etc... Using your logic, only atheletically gifted, perfect sighted, pure genetic nationality people with just the right height and weight should have kids, that way we'll all be equal and no one will be teased again.

As for the single parent thing, what if they found out the parent that was out of the picture was a total loser low life drunk, if kids are gonna make fun of a kid for having gay parents, I'm sure they'll make fun of the low life drunk parent as well. Kids can be very cruel, all they need is the smallest nudge in the right (wrong) direction.

But thats what i'm trying to say!!! Some one having a drunk single parents wouldn't be ridiculed as much as someone with two gay parents! Well not over here anyway.

 

[The Senator]

My opinions are rooted in logic. Hop on the plane over here and i'll show you round my area and my schools, i'll show you logic then. I don't need scientific proof to know that if a kid was at my school, with two homosexual parents he would be ridiculed every single day. I know that without resorting to scientific graphs and that, it's called common sense.

Except scientific evidence studied the exact same phenomenon you are describing and have universally declared that there is NO connection between peer abuse and the sexual orientation of one's parents.

Of course, maybe those in merry old England are bigots, but hey, you guys still take advice from and pledge allegiance to a woman who claims to be a direct descendant from God, so I would expect you to be behind the curve when it comes to civil rights and modern social justice...

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Kids are tormented for a variety of reasons. Until scientific evidence suggests that children adopted by gay couples are overwhelmingly going to be abused by their peers because they were raised by gay parents, you have no point. All studies, in fact, point to the opposite.

Well where were these studies carried out?

Common sense tells me that the average 13-16 year old would absolutely abuse a fellow child down to the ground if they found out their parents were gay.

You say it points to the opposite? BS man BS. So you are telling me that a the childs peers would do the opposite of abuse them? So they would give them extra help and be extra nice to them? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA your scientific evidence is screwed up man.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Except scientific evidence studied the exact same phenomenon you are describing and have universally declared that there is NO connection between peer abuse and the sexual orientation of one's parents.

Of course, maybe those in merry old England are bigots, but hey, you guys still take advice from and pledge allegiance to a woman who claims to be a direct descendant from God, so I would expect you to be behind the curve when it comes to civil rights and modern social justice...

The Queen claims to be a direct descendant from God? I didn't know that! If that was the case then I would of thought the Pope would be doing his nut, not coming to visit her for tea and crumpets.

 

[thedeadite]

Children will tease/torment children for whatever thing they can possibly find.
Keeping people from doing things because this teasing "might" happen is ridiculous.
During de-segregation, people KNEW that black children would be teased/tormented in their new schools (relentlessly in some cases). You wouldn't use that as an argument for not allowing de-segregation. You would use that information to better educate your children that these children are the same as you, and don't deserve to be treated any different. This is what you should be concerned with, teaching people that there is nothing wrong with the child of homosexual parents, not saying they shouldn't be allowed to have parents because their child may be teased.

 

[The Senator]

Well where were these studies carried out?

Over the course of thirteen years, late 1980s-late 1990s.

Common sense tells me that the average 13-16 year old would absolutely abuse a fellow child down to the ground if they found out their parents were gay.

And again, your common sense completely refutes every scientific study on the matter.

You say it points to the opposite? BS man BS. So you are telling me that a the childs peers would do the opposite of abuse them? So they would give them extra help and be extra nice to them? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA your scientific evidence is screwed up man.

By "opposite" I meant that there is a lack of abuse directed to these kids solely due to their parents' sexual orientation.

 

[The Senator]

The Queen claims to be a direct descendant from God? I didn't know that!

Then you really need to study up on your country's history, considering that is the whole ****ing point of the monarchy.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Except scientific evidence studied the exact same phenomenon you are describing and have universally declared that there is NO connection between peer abuse and the sexual orientation of one's parents.

Of course, maybe those in merry old England are bigots, but hey, you guys still take advice from and pledge allegiance to a woman who claims to be a direct descendant from God, so I would expect you to be behind the curve when it comes to civil rights and modern social justice...

So how did they conduct this study? Did they go round asking all the kids with homosexual parents if they were bullied? Common sense tells me that not all of said children would come out and say "Yea I was really bullied and it ruined my life!" Of course they are not all going to say that, even if it did infact happen. Kids don't always let people know they are being bullied, common sense also tells me that.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I completely agree with you on the bolded bit. There are too many families like that. Where i live I see 15 year old girls walking around with prams.

And yea maybe it is a noble act. But as I said before you're scientific proof doesn't always mean everything. Life isn't always smelling of roses, a lot of kids, especially from where I live would have a awful time at school if they were in that position.

From the way you put it, you live in a pretty backwater part of the country. Somewhere that I doubt a gay couple would live because they know they wouldn't be accepted there. So maybe you should expand your viewpoint, say to a big city or suburb, where people are a little more educated and accepting of different lifestyles, maybe the parents there have already taught their children that just because one of their classmates comes from a different family enivorment than theirs doesn't make them actually different.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

From the way you put it, you live in a pretty backwater part of the country. Somewhere that I doubt a gay couple would live because they know they wouldn't be accepted there. So maybe you should expand your viewpoint, say to a big city or suburb, where people are a little more educated and accepting of different lifestyles, maybe the parents there have already taught their children that just because one of their classmates comes from a different family enivorment than theirs doesn't make them actually different.

You saying i'm uneducated? I'm come from Essex, right near London, it ain't no backwater part of the country.

You say their parents should teach them homosexual people are normal, they probably do. But whens the last time all kids listened and obeyed every single thing their parents say?

And unaccepting of different cultures and lifestyles? You don't know Essex and London then, it's a complete mish mash of cultures. We have all different creeds living together. Some people will accept Pakistanis moving in next door but they might not accept homosexuals though.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

You saying i'm uneducated? I'm come from Essex, right near London, it ain't no backwater part of the country.

You say their parents should teach them homosexual people are normal, they probably do. But whens the last time all kids listened and obeyed every single thing their parents say?

And unaccepting of different cultures and lifestyles? You don't know Essex and London then, it's a complete mish mash of cultures. We have all different creeds living together. Some people will accept Pakistanis moving in next door but they might not accept homosexuals though.

You haven't made the best case for your town being "enlightened" what with the 15-year old pregnant girls and the kids not getting ridiculed much for having low life drunk's for parents like that's perfectly normal. In my mind this conjures up images of Cletus from the Simpsons. I'm not saying some kids won't be cruel, some always will be, however, if a child is taught acceptance over bigotry, racism and homophobia, I think it'll tip the scales in acceptance's favor.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Why is it so un-nerving?
Please don't use the teasing, predujuiced defence, because that could be solved if parents just taught that homosexuality was normal, instead of saying that it isn't or completely disregarding the issue all together. Much like prejudice and teasing because of race lessened once people starting teaching their children that there really was no difference between the two.

Homosexuality -isn't- normal.

That doesn't make it wrong, or bad. But it's not normal.

As far as the teasing thing, and making life more difficult - guess what? Life is rough. The world is tough. There will ALWAYS be obstacles.

Guess what? Like it or not, black people have more obstacles in their way to success than whites. Should black people not be allowed to have children because their children's lives will be harder? That's absolutely ridiculous.

I'm sorry, but we can't live in a bubble, where we all walk around and hold each other's hands talking about how great we are.

There are obstacles in life, and that is NO reason to say that one person or another can or cannot have children. That is absolutely absurd.

There is absolutely no valid reason as to why homosexuals should not be allowed to adopt children. None what so ever.