And you thought the crap marvel have been spouting so far was bad

[roach]

I disagree. Most comic retailers are smart minded buisness people who are not in need of CW to come out on a particular day to survive. These are people who survived the market crash---they know what they are doing.

And as I pointed out comic sales are a lot higher now than 5 years ago.

I dont know how it is in Scotland but in the US comic shops are a dying breed...already in my town 3 have closed down

 

[PWN3R]

So according to you Hippy, once Civil War is over, all LCS's sales will plummet?

 

[gildea]

Most people who own LCS's don't do it to become rich, they do it because they love comics. Good business is shipping loads of mainstream stuff and saying **** the indies they won't sell.

Indies do sell, they have a smaller market share but demand is there for them.
Good comic stores cater to BOTH markets. I'm not going to feel sorry because someones "comic shop owning dream" went up in smoke because they ran it badly. Comics may not make you rich but you've ONLY yourself to blame if they make you poor.

Is this what you want? How about this, if it wasn't for monster sellers and crossovers comic book stores wouldn't have taken a chance on the likes of preacher or invincible. Do you want books like this to die out just so you can be right?

Preacher sells loads in trade regardless i repeat good comic stores cater to BOTH markets.

A brief example.
Imagine two stores A and B.
A caters only to maintstream stuff like CW
B caters for everything a comic fan wants.

Most comic fans pic up an indie comic or two they are all going to use shop B to pick up both mainstream and indie books to avoid 2 trips.

 

[roach]

http://www.comixexperience.com/savblog/2006/08/not-exactly-hat-trick-hibbs-on-late.html

since no one will believe me

 

[gildea]

I dont know how it is in Scotland but in the US comic shops are a dying breed...already in my town 3 have closed down

And yet industry sales are rising. (and manga is HUGE)

No sympathy here.

If the closed down they were either badly run or shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[gildea]

http://www.comixexperience.com/savblog/2006/08/not-exactly-hat-trick-hibbs-on-late.html

since no one will believe me

roach noone is saying it won't affect retailers. (Though that post is slightly incorrect it says the money earned is gone, thats completely incorrect, it's just coming later.)

Only that it won't put them out of business.

 

[hippy fascist]

Indies do sell, they have a smaller market share but demand is there for them.
Good comic stores cater to BOTH markets. I'm not going to feel sorry because someones "comic shop owning dream" went up in smoke because they ran it badly. Comics may not make you rich but you've ONLY yourself to blame if they make you poor.



Preacher sells loads in trade regardless i repeat good comic stores cater to BOTH markets.

A brief example.
Imagine two stores A and B.
A caters only to maintstream stuff like CW
B caters for everything a comic fan wants.

Most comic fans pic up an indie comic or two they are all going to use shop B to pick up both mainstream and indie books to avoid 2 trips.

Yes but I'm not sure if you're aware of this but preacher started out as floppys, and because it became so legendary among comic fans it made it to the edn of it run and is now collected in trades, my point was that if owners hadn't taken a chance on it it would have died out after one or two issues. Without the comic in the first place there would be no trades.
Go on ebay and try to find a copy of preacher number one in good condition...that's right, you can't(and if you do it's going for hundreds of dollars!). Why, beacuse HARDLY ANYONE BOUGHT IT. It takes time for new writers and high risk books like that to gain momentum, time paid for by regular high volume sellers. Not only that, civil war war is not the only problem. The other, secret wars, house of M. Marvel has been doing a series of **** crossovers recently(yes the other is a crossover since it was told through 3[or was it 4?] different spidey titles) Civil war was finally starting to make up for that but now marvel have gone and undone all that good work.

This is the final nail in the coffin that proves that maybe the people saying marvel can't handle big events anymore were right. This is not just the main book being late, there are several other factors at play here. You need to step back and see the big picture. (going for a record on overused cliches here!)

 

[gildea]

Yes but I'm not sure if you're aware of this but preacher started out as floppys, and because it became so legendary among comic fans it made it to the edn of it run and is now collected in trades, my point was that if owners hadn't taken a chance on it it would have died out after one or two issues. Without the comic in the first place there would be no trades.

Of course I'm aware of it. Not sure entirely what it has to do with CW delays putting a shop out of business though. Your argument was saying that I implied retailers should just chase the high selling comics I countered saying NO retailers should cater to BOTH the big sellers and indies because that is how a good shop is run, I then implied in the long run this makes GOOD BUISNESS SENSE because stuff like preacher DOES BETTER IN TRADE and good retailers recognise this.

Go on ebay and try to find a copy of preacher number one in good condition...that's right, you can't(and if you do it's going for hundreds of dollars!). Why, beacuse HARDLY ANYONE BOUGHT IT.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PREACHER-1-66-C...oryZ3953QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Currently sitting at $160 dollars for a complete run with lots of other stuff.
Not relevant to the topic in anyway but never mind.

This is the final nail in the coffin that proves that maybe the people saying marvel can't handle big events anymore were right. This is not just the main book being late, there are several other factors at play here. You need to step back and see the big picture. (going for a record on overused cliches here!)

I am.
You seem to equate running a good comic shop with ignoring quality indie titles. I didn't make this distinction. All i've said is if your comic shop goes out of businss because of what amounts to a 1 month (then 2 month) delay on a few comics then you are running it badly. Your focusing too much on short term stuff (like I suggest bad retailers do)


Really though what did I say that made you think I suggest retailers shouldn't support indie comics? Could you find me a quote?

 

[Mr. Green]

The sophomoric jab at the posters' virginity was unnecessary however you look at it.

Unnecessary? Maybe. Hillarious? Most definately.

I think some comic fans need to relax and have a sense of humor about things. Hitch has a good point. It really isn't a big deal in the big scheme of things. At least not to the point of going off on how crappy Millar is and so on.

I think Hitch was just sticking up for one of his friends and putting things in perspective a little. No big deal. I wouldn't freak out and start burning my Ultimates collection or anything.

 

[Darthphere]

Unnecessary? Maybe. Hillarious? Most definately.

I think some comic fans need to relax and have a sense of humor about things. Hitch has a good point. It really isn't a big deal in the big scheme of things. At least not to the point of going off on how crappy Millar is and so on.

I think Hitch was just sticking up for one of his friends and putting things in perspective a little. No big deal. I wouldn't freak out and start burning my Ultimates collection or anything.

Good attitude, let Marvel and DC **** all over you and still give them your money.

 

[gildea]

Good attitude, let Marvel and DC **** all over you and still give them your money.

Conversely though just because we give marvel our money doesn't give us the right to **** all over them and not expect a reaction.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Guy: And that's when I told all those stupid kids, hey how about you guys lose your virginity!

Girl: Wait, what who did you tell it to?

Guy: Oh babe, these snotty message board posters, don't you hate them.

Girl: Wait, message board...what?

...wait what do you do for a living

Guy: Oh baby, my name is Bryan, and I draw comic books like Ultimates. So how about you and I go back to my room and I'll show the big pen I draw with....c'mon

Girl: Wait you draw comics....geez, that's it I'm leaving.

Guy: But...but...my virginity.

 

[gildea]

I thought they were unproffessional and shouldn't have been said.

However they are nowhere near as bad as the abuse many comics pros take online daily, sometimes only for writing a book that a person doesn't like. As such I think many people who complain about hitches comments are being hypocritical.

Still doesn't mean I agree with their existance.

 

[gildea]

Guy: And that's when I told all those stupid kids, hey how about you guys lose your virginity!

Girl: Wait, what who did you tell it to?

Guy: Oh babe, these snotty message board posters, don't you hate them.

Girl: Wait, message board...what?

...wait what do you do for a living

Guy: Oh baby, my name is Bryan, and I draw comic books like Ultimates. So how about you and I go back to my room and I'll show the big pen I draw with....c'mon

Girl: Wait you draw comics....geez, that's it I'm leaving.

Guy: But...but...my virginity.

To be fair in a post after this talking about the comment hitch said he needed to loose his virginity also.

 

[Grim Goblin]

Good attitude, let Marvel and DC **** all over you and still give them your money.

But...if we don't, we'll never have those complete runs that are so more important than our self-respect

You just hate the change in the industry

 

[Darthphere]

But...if we don't, we'll never have those complete runs that are so more important than our self-respect

You just hate the change in the industry

No, what I hate is people toeing the company line. Theyre not giving out these comics for free, your ****ing paying for them. If they say monthly, you ****ing expect an issue every month. Were the customers, theyre the service, they should be bending over backwards for us, not the other way around.

 

[Sentry2005]

No, what I hate is people toeing the company line. Theyre not giving out these comics for free, your ****ing paying for them. If they say monthly, you ****ing expect an issue every month. Were the customers, theyre the service, they should be bending over backwards for us, not the other way around.

You're right. Unfortuantly, people will say "Damn the company!" and "Screw you guys, i'm not buying your comics any more!", but ultimately they will. And then they'll complain again the next time its late. It's why people like Joe Q don't give a ****. It's why, generally speaking, the world doesn't change that much, because for all the noise people make, they very rarely act

 

[Darthphere]

You're right. Unfortuantly, people will say "Damn the company!" and "Screw you guys, i'm not buying your comics any more!", but ultimately they will. And then they'll complain again the next time its late. It's why people like Joe Q don't give a ****. It's why, generally speaking, the world doesn't change that much, because for all the noise people make, they very rarely act

I really dont care about delayed comics, I dont, Wonder Woman is delayed but ill wait it out. Its the fact that Marvel shouldve been more upfront about this, DC told us why Wonder Woman was late ahead of time. Then, Marvel and its people come out with this holier than thou attitude, like theyre doing us a favor delaying the comic and Hitch told us all to lose our virginity, been there done that. Thats what pissed me off.

 

[roach]

I really dont care about delayed comics, I dont, Wonder Woman is delayed but ill wait it out. Its the fact that Marvel shouldve been more upfront about this, DC told us why Wonder Woman was late ahead of time. Then, Marvel and its people come out with this holier than thou attitude, like theyre doing us a favor delaying the comic and Hitch told us all to lose our virginity, been there done that. Thats what pissed me off.

this is one of the major reasons why I dropped Marvel. THEY NEED US...WE DONT NEED THEM. However some of us feel that it is the other way around. Marvel could ***** in a comic and some people would try to call it the best comic ever.

 

[Grim Goblin]

No, what I hate is people toeing the company line. Theyre not giving out these comics for free, your ****ing paying for them. If they say monthly, you ****ing expect an issue every month. Were the customers, theyre the service, they should be bending over backwards for us, not the other way around.

Actually, I agree 100%. Guess my sarcasm wasn't clear enough

 

[Darthphere]

Actually, I agree 100%. Guess my sarcasm wasn't clear enough

No, it wasnt.

 

[gildea]

this is one of the major reasons why I dropped Marvel. THEY NEED US...WE DONT NEED THEM. However some of us feel that it is the other way around. Marvel could ***** in a comic and some people would try to call it the best comic ever.

This is what it really comes down to.

I myself want comics with consistant art so i'll wait for the ultimates

Roach wants his comics on time so he won't wait. (not trying to imply that all comics on time have inconsistant art btw)

If everyone was as sensible as roach we would see a lot less late books if thats what we want.

 

[Xofenroht]

First of all, in defense of "roach", there's more than Civil War on the line here. Every tie-in title is delayed aswell. Considering the crossover scale of Civil War, that does take a crucial chunk out of the sales a retailer would make. Civil War, Civil War: Front Line, New Avengers, Amazing Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Wolverine etc. And those are just the ones I read. I'm not even mentioning Thunderbolts and those that are scheduled to spin out as a result of Civil War like events in Cap and Iron Man to follow. The first titles I mentioned alone are titles that happen to sell quite well. Civil War in itself is a big deal especially now that Thor has shown up. Thor has shown his face in Civil War, that alone will bring more customers in. So yes, roach, I understand what you're saying and agree with you 100%.
As a fan, I dread the moment all of those titles come out together. That's alot to have to shove out in a short span of time when you take into consideration everything else I'm getting pulled plus the TPB's I was planning to get.
I'm not kidding when I say this delay screws everything up. You might say I need a life, but then where is my booze and illegal substance money going to come from? You mean I actually have to pick and choose? No one likes sober guys at drinking parties.

 

[Darthphere]

This is what it really comes down to.

I myself want comics with consistant art so i'll wait for the ultimates

Roach doesn't so he won't.

If everyone was as sensible as roach we would see a lot less late books if thats what we want.

I dont mind delays as ive said, but I want them to be upfront about them. Were the customers, they should say "hey we ****ed up, were a little slow, were sorry, we'll make it up to you guys later" when they first found out there were going to be delays, not the day before.

 

[Xofenroht]

I wonder how Marvel would feel if we all as a fan base decided to wait a few years more before we bought the Civil War stuff they're putting out. Haha...