Ant-Man and The Wasp Ant-Man and the Wasp News and Speculation Thread - Part 1

[Dark Raven]

Still a letdown that the modern Wasp in the MCU is Hope and not Janet. This and making a movie about Scott Lang were my biggest problems with Edgar Wright's vision for Ant-Man.

Yeah agree. I wanted a movie about Hank and Jan, with a spunky young Janet with all her many costumes and bubbly personality. Not a Janet who is old and lost in the Quantum Realm.

 

[squeekness]

I enjoyed it. Some inventive stuff. i forgot how much I liked the whole shrinking and growing mechanic in the middle of combat and it should get even better and more chaotic with 2 of them doing it at the same time. The building turning into a trolley was great. t:

Finally watched this myself. The magical shrinking building was awesome, lol.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Still a letdown that the modern Wasp in the MCU is Hope and not Janet. This and making a movie about Scott Lang were my biggest problems with Edgar Wright's vision for Ant-Man.

I think Scott Lang is a better protagonist if you are giving Ant-Man his own movie. I think Pym works better as either a supporting character or as one of the Avengers, and the MCU Avengers lineup already had two scientists.

 

[DyeLorean]

So the MacGuffin is AN ENTIRE BUILDING? t:

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I see some complaining about "even shrinking things down they would still weigh the same because they would retain their density", but what if with the Pym Particles you didn't retain the same density but were still heavy? Like if you held Ant-Man in your hand he would feel very weighty but still wouldn't weigh as much as a full sized human? A shrunken building wouldn't weigh as much as when it was full sized but you still couldn't just pick it up (in the trailer Pym was wheeling it around so its got to at least be as heavy as a really heavy suitcase or a block of concrete)? I don't know how "realistic" that is but what if that's how the Pym Particles work in the MCU?

 

[DyeLorean]

I think what Ant-Man keeps when he shrinks is his strength, that's what I think they explained in the first film. Is not the weight, which is a different thing.

 

[Iceman]

Finally watched this myself. The magical shrinking building was awesome, lol.

Yeah, I want one haha.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think Scott Lang is a better protagonist if you are giving Ant-Man his own movie. I think Pym works better as either a supporting character or as one of the Avengers, and the MCU Avengers lineup already had two scientists.

Fair enough, but to me Pym has always been the cooler and more interesting character.

Also Scott Lang is basically a scientist as well. He's an electrical engineer and got a master's degree in the subject.

I think Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes proved that Hank Pym can be an awesome character for the Avengers team and can co-exist on a team with Tony Stark.

 

[chamber-music]

In the older comics most of Marvel's super genius scientist types each had their specialist field so they complemented each other with their skill set.

When Kang first appeared in the Avengers 8 Tony engineered a gun spec for bio-chemist Hank Pym who designed a unique acid that could burn through Kang's weapon suit.

I hope we don't get short changed with the flashbacks this time.

Hank's Ant-Man Panama eighties mission prologue got cut from the first film. Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen with the eighties Argentina flashback with Hank and Janet in this film.

It would be cool if Pym's ship is the MCU version of Rover from the comics
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Rover_(vehicle)

 

[javonstokess]

Hank was never gonna be the star of a movie. His "history" is a bit too sordid for that

Comic fans haven't "forgiven" him for the slapping incident, god know the general populace wouldn't.

I like that this is Marvel's first "legacy" story. Makes it a bit different than anything they've done before.

 

[Dark Raven]

Hank was never gonna be the star of a movie. His "history" is a bit too sordid for that

Comic fans haven't "forgiven" him for the slapping incident, god know the general populace wouldn't.

I like that this is Marvel's first "legacy" story. Makes it a bit different than anything they've done before.

Why would the general populace even know about that? Do they know about either Tony Stark betraying all this fellow Avengers under the influence of Kang and then being replaced by Teen Tony? Do they know about all the stuff he did in the comics Civil War?

Wasn't Tony Stark far more hated by fans than Hank Pym? He was in a far worse state in the comics than Pym ever was.

The MCU hasn't delved into any of that, nor really touched very much on his alcoholism.

What makes you think they would have even touched on any slap by Hank Pym?

People make it out as if it was wife beating. He brushed her aside with a slap on one occasion while under extreme stress. And yet that's suddenly attributed to him as making up his whole history.

But yet Reed Richards did the very same thing and people seem to either conveniently forget or forgive him.

And let's not forget that Spider-Man has done that. Remember in SM3 when he pretty much did the same thing to MJ that Hank did to Janet. He didn't suddenly gain a reputation as a wife beater.

And if you're going to go by the Ultimates book, well then Hulk should also gain the reputation as a cannibal, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver as incestuous twins, Captain America as a racist, extremely militant soldier etc.

 

[MbJ]

Why would the general populace even know about that?

Because the second Hank was announced as the star there'd be an endless flurry of think pieces and editorials about Disney glamorizing a man who beat his wife.

 

[Abudefduf]

Hank is the "problematic" character, yet he's not the one who Marvel decided to exile to a different dimension. Makes you think.

 

[Dark Raven]

Because the second Hank was announced as the star there'd be an endless flurry of think pieces and editorials about Disney glamorizing a man who beat his wife.

Well they glamourised Spider-Man and Reed Richards.

My point is that they receive a pass whereas Pym forever has that mark on his record. It should be the same standards applied across the board.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Hank is the "problematic" character, yet he's not the one who Marvel decided to exile to a different dimension. Makes you think.

Well, Janet exactly couldn't have been Ant-Man, LOL! That's inevitably why. It was a passing of the torch story. If they exiled him and not Janet, she is passing a mantle she never had. Or, made the movie about Wasp instead. But, that's not how the project was conceived initially by Edgar Wright. Remember, Ant-Man came about largely because Wright wanted to make it.

Further, movie Pym is not comic Pym. Movie Pym as far as we know is not a wife beater.

 

[honestbharani]

He actually seems to be a guy who loves his wife a lot and carries the guilt over her sacrificing herself for the country.

 

[Aximili86]

It's likely as simple as "we've already got two science-bros in Tony and Bruce", a third is probably a crowd in an Avengers context. Scott's smart, but more working-class and resourceful than MIT-uberjedi. Hank'd be too "been there, done that" as an archetype for a lead.

Probably the same reason they seem to be shifting some of the science aspect in Black Panther onto his sister. T'Challa's still really smart, and being Wakandan has a strong grasp of the technology of us lessers, but you don't need to play up him being some Bruce Banner level savant.

 

[MbJ]

Well they glamourised Spider-Man and Reed Richards.

My point is that they receive a pass whereas Pym forever has that mark on his record. It should be the same standards applied across the board.

Because those two are way more popular than Hank Pym. It's not fair, but the instances where Peter hit MJ or Reed hit Sue are forgotten because in the grand scheme of their publishing histories, those are minor foot notes at best.

But Hank? The Yellowjacket story and the resulting trial issue are undoubtedly his most famous story.

Like I said, it's not fair. Hank is a great character and has spent years apologizing and atoning for what he did, but that's why nobody forgets it.

 

[Dark Raven]

Well, Janet exactly couldn't have been Ant-Man, LOL! That's inevitably why. It was a passing of the torch story. If they exiled him and not Janet, she is passing a mantle she never had. Or, made the movie about Wasp instead. But, that's not how the project was conceived initially by Edgar Wright. Remember, Ant-Man came about largely because Wright wanted to make it.

Further, movie Pym is not comic Pym. Movie Pym as far as we know is not a wife beater.

Yeah, and he's also not Yellow Jacket either. They split that personality completely apart from him and made it Darren Cross instead for the movies.

The MCU has simplified many of the characters and some of their issues. Tony Stark is not really an alcoholic at all. He only dabbled with it in Iron Man 2 only because the paladium poisoning was killing him. But once that was over, he never even once seemed tempted to fall off the wagon again.

Even in Iron Man 3 when he was having PTSD after the Avengers, he didn't suddenly turn into an alcoholic. Nor in the wake of the events of Civil War.

Hank Pym in the MCU is a good man who is wracked by guilt over the loss of Janet. He's also tried to protect the Pym particles to stop it falling into the wrong hands (like it did with Darren Cross in Ant-man 1).

Dumping all the negative aspects of the Yellow Jacket personality onto Darren Cross may have been a wise move in hindsight. Pym in the movies never has to worry about that side of things. It's not like they'll go there now, otherwise that would be a rehash of the first villain.

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah, and he's also not Yellow Jacket either. They split that personality completely apart from him and made it Darren Cross instead for the movies.

The MCU has simplified many of the characters and some of their issues. Tony Stark is not really an alcoholic at all. He only dabbled with it in Iron Man 2 only because the paladium poisoning was killing him. But once that was over, he never even once seemed tempted to fall off the wagon again.

OT: When did he "dabble" being an alcoholic? He got drunk in one scene.

 

[javonstokess]

Why would the general populace even know about that? Do they know about either Tony Stark betraying all this fellow Avengers under the influence of Kang and then being replaced by Teen Tony? Do they know about all the stuff he did in the comics Civil War?

Wasn't Tony Stark far more hated by fans than Hank Pym? He was in a far worse state in the comics than Pym ever was.

The MCU hasn't delved into any of that, nor really touched very much on his alcoholism.

What makes you think they would have even touched on any slap by Hank Pym?

People make it out as if it was wife beating. He brushed her aside with a slap on one occasion while under extreme stress. And yet that's suddenly attributed to him as making up his whole history.

But yet Reed Richards did the very same thing and people seem to either conveniently forget or forgive him.

And let's not forget that Spider-Man has done that. Remember in SM3 when he pretty much did the same thing to MJ that Hank did to Janet. He didn't suddenly gain a reputation as a wife beater.

And if you're going to go by the Ultimates book, well then Hulk should also gain the reputation as a cannibal, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver as incestuous twins, Captain America as a racist, extremely militant soldier etc.

For the record, I never said I agreed with it. My point is, of all those characters, Hank Pym's "transgression" has literally followed him (and defined him) since. With the other characters, subsequent writers QUICKLY brushed that stuff (Spider-man and Reed's "hits") under the rug, to LONG be forgotten.

Hank's stuff gets called up EVERY SINGLE STORY he's in.

Don't be mad at me, be mad at the writers.

Oh yeah, regarding Tony's alcoholism, like others have mentioned, they touched on it in IM2 BUT the difference is alcoholism is considered a disease while spousal abuse is generally considered "unforgivable".

I didn't make the rules I just talk about them.

 

[Abudefduf]

Well, Janet exactly couldn't have been Ant-Man, LOL! That's inevitably why. It was a passing of the torch story. If they exiled him and not Janet, she is passing a mantle she never had. Or, made the movie about Wasp instead.

True... doesn't change the fact that the "problematic" character is not the one getting the short end of the stick.

I like Janet Van Dyne, she's fun and far more interesting that her dull daughter, and thanks to Edgar Wright (who I can't stand, by the way) and Marvel we'll never get to see a faithful adaptation of her on the big screen. Lame.

 

[Dark Raven]

True... doesn't change the fact that the "problematic" character is not the one getting the short end of the stick.

I like Janet Van Dyne, she's fun and far more interesting that her dull daughter, and thanks to Edgar Wright (who I can't stand, by the way) and Marvel we'll never get to see a faithful adaptation of her on the big screen. Lame.

Edgar Wright was planning to have both Hank and Janet when he first started working on the Ant-Man script while Michael Douglas was still playing in the Streets of San Francisco and looked like this:

He would've been much cheaper then too. That was way before Hank had become seen as "problematic".

But Wright is notorious for taking a long time. So by the time he finished his first draft in 2014, Douglas now looked like this:

 

[Spider-Fan]

True... doesn't change the fact that the "problematic" character is not the one getting the short end of the stick.

I like Janet Van Dyne, she's fun and far more interesting that her dull daughter, and thanks to Edgar Wright (who I can't stand, by the way) and Marvel we'll never get to see a faithful adaptation of her on the big screen. Lame.

I don't think Janet would have had much more to do even if she was in it. Her being a spectre and something that haunts them and comes back into their lives I think creates better drama.

 

[Nathaniell]

Just finished watching the first film after not seeing it for a long time. Now that i just saw the credit scene with Cap, bucky and falcon...ohh gods.. Civil War? Then watch the teaser to Antman and the Wasp ? Oh my gods. Im getting so excited! Ok. Calm down.

still pretty good since it came out. I enjoyed it far more.