The Amazing Spider-Man Are they going to force the romance plot down our throats...again?

[Rodrigo90]

At least Dunst as MJ had SOME interesting personality. MJ in the comics was 'mainly' a sex doll.

 

[TheSlag]

Yeah, umm... you guys ever hear of this?

The Raimi movies weren't "all about a girl" either. Parker just says that because he's narrating it from his perspective, and as a high school kid in love with the girl next door, he feels that she's the center of his life. It's a simple fact of infatuation.

You ever "hear" of basically ALL the subplots/storylines in Raimi's Spider-Man revolving around MJ? You know.. ALL about ONE girl?

 

[TheSlag]

Hopefully not. One of my main criticisms about the Raimi movies was how MJ seemed to be the focal point of Peter's world. Even his origin was wrapped up in her. He was engaged in photographing her when he was bitten by the spider. He only went to make some money at the Wrestling arena so he could get a car to impress MJ etc.

Exactly. And every movie had MJ getting kidnapped. Every movie had the on again/off again... she loves... she loves me not. And then the Spidey NO MORE storyline revolved exclusively (not completely) around MJ.

 

[SuperFerret]

You ever "hear" of basically ALL the subplots/storylines in Raimi's Spider-Man revolving around MJ? You know.. ALL about ONE girl?

Nawp.

 

[The Morningstar]

And that brings me to another point. What the hell did Peter see in MJ anyway? I mean lets face it, she's proven herself to be blatantly unreliable, untrustworthy and all in all, a rather selfish gf.

Mj was the first girl he fancied when he was 6? So who cares? She never gave a crap about him growing up, hell she never even really acknowledged his existence.

Mj at the time behaves like any other normal, decent human being and shows kindness to Peter when he really needed it? This is not an invitation to hook up and start playing bedroom bullies, Peter.

Mj mistakes having a crush on the new mysterious concrete jungle swinger in town and wastes no time in trying to suck his face off.

There's just way too many discrepancies in her character to make her desirable other than just to use and abuse her for one night and be done with her ala the way norman suggested to harry.

Now this makes Peter's emotional investment in her all the more alarming and bizarre. I think the movies did a horrible job in convincing the audience why someone like Peter could be so in love with a cow like MJ, which is strange because the romance DOMINATED the screen time in all 3 movies unless the plan was to have Peter really come off as the ultimate loser and a massive cabrone at that.

haha so true. Norman was right about her.

 

[Vid Electricz]

BIN effing GO!

See, look at 500 days summer. Granted, it's not a superhero flick but the angst and the dilemma's being faced by the central characters were so masterfully conveyed and executed that one can't help admire, respect and find the movie worthy of watching. Imagine if 500 days of summer where Deshannel and Gordo are replaced by Dunst and Maguire as characteristically portrayed in the spidey films, 500 days of summer would be a crappy, bullet to the brain-inducing snoozefest.

That being said, I hope Gwen's character isn't overbearingly forced and used to serve as the main catalyst for every aspect and decision Peter makes in his life. Secondly, I want to give a damn about the characters. One of the problems I had with Raimi's mediocre movies were that, I just didn't give a bag of rat's piss about the central characters because everything just seemed so pathetic and artificial. The dialogue was horrendous, I mean, it's one thing to have bad dialogue but the dialogue was just atrocious and no attempt to save it by trying to execute a decent delivery of the lines were made (I'm talking about Peter and MJ here). Maguire looked like he was half asleep and crying at the same time for the majority of all 3 movies, Dunst just made me want to punch her lights out. MJ is supposed to get me hot under the collar and get me sexually aroused but something about Dunst in terms of her looks and ESPECIALLY the abomination that was her character portrayal just arouses violence and frustration within me. I cant stand her. I wanted her taken out by a painfully slow death. I didn't care how or by whom, I just wanted it done.

Now, I blame Raimi! You people can sing your songs of praise and come to his defence about how he didn't write the script and all that appeasing bullcrap but the fact of the matter remains is that he is the freaking director! Do your job. That being said, maybe he did his job extremely well, that depends on how in touch with society as a whole and the social dynamic of young people he's in tune with and I am of the belief that Raimi is quite simply out of touch with the way young people behave and interact, which is why his spidey films felt so off key to me. However, at the time, when you have about 4 decades worth of material at your disposal, I think it's quite an accomplishment to fail at conveying a realistic sense of social interaction and instead focus on the rather dated cliche angle of the relationship between a geek and the hot girl at school. I mean for crying out loud, I've seen better handling of this sort of situation on tv shows that predate spider-man 2002 and besides that, we have ample of material in the form of various medias that serve as a passage to get the characters right.

I don't know if Webb will do a better or worse job than Raimi but one thing we all know is, this film gives us the chance to potentially see something different and hopefully something better.
If the romance is handled really well and is something engaging and exciting and worthy of investing attention as an onlooker then to be honest, I wouldn't mind the romance playing a proportionately equal role to Raimi's but as mentioned, it has to be worth a damn and be that freaking good otherwise Webb can go sling his hook somewhere. For too long the spidey movies have bathed in rivers of mediocrity and now it's time to dry that crap off, baptize itself into a sea of heaven's nectar and emerge as something simply, amazing.

It's OK to vent, but you could have just as easily cut out all the extraneous stuff and left only the last paragraph. You would've gotten your idea across just as well and it wouldn't come of as nearly as winsome as it does now. Tips to remember for future rants.


Also, the bolded line. Ugh. This is why superhero comics are still regarded as juvenile fluff (which they totally are now more than ever) and also why fanboys aren't in charge of writing or directing these films.

I really think Webb is going to bring a more complex version of these characters to the screen. Which will be great. As I said before, I could appreciate the sort of melodrama that Raimi was going for, but some actual drama (there is a big difference) will really bring out the true potential of a character like Peter Parker/Spider-Man.

 

[Godzilla2014]

At least Dunst as MJ had SOME interesting personality. MJ in the comics was 'mainly' a sex doll.

Disagree. Mary Jane has plenty of personality in the comics.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Disagree. Mary Jane has plenty of personality in the comics.

Spouting one-liners and being a "party girl" is not personality.

I know how they tried to add some backstory to her character in the 80's about how she used the party girl facade to cover up her loneliness, etc... which is a pathetic attempt at adding depth (why must female characters always be victims), quite typical of the medium as well as a lame attempt at back-pedaling.

 

[SuperFerret]

So you stopped reading comics around the 80's then?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

And that brings me to another point. What the hell did Peter see in MJ anyway? I mean lets face it, she's proven herself to be blatantly unreliable, untrustworthy and all in all, a rather selfish gf.

Mj was the first girl he fancied when he was 6? So who cares? She never gave a crap about him growing up, hell she never even really acknowledged his existence.

Mj at the time behaves like any other normal, decent human being and shows kindness to Peter when he really needed it? This is not an invitation to hook up and start playing bedroom bullies, Peter.

Mj mistakes having a crush on the new mysterious concrete jungle swinger in town and wastes no time in trying to suck his face off.

There's just way too many discrepancies in her character to make her desirable other than just to use and abuse her for one night and be done with her ala the way norman suggested to harry.

Now this makes Peter's emotional investment in her all the more alarming and bizarre. I think the movies did a horrible job in convincing the audience why someone like Peter could be so in love with a cow like MJ, which is strange because the romance DOMINATED the screen time in all 3 movies unless the plan was to have Peter really come off as the ultimate loser and a massive cabrone at that.

LOL> True

At least Dunst as MJ had SOME interesting personality. MJ in the comics was 'mainly' a sex doll.

She remained a virgin before marriage

haha so true. Norman was right about her.

LOL. True that too

Spouting one-liners and being a "party girl" is not personality.

I know how they tried to add some backstory to her character in the 80's about how she used the party girl facade to cover up her loneliness, etc... which is a pathetic attempt at adding depth (why must female characters always be victims), quite typical of the medium as well as a lame attempt at back-pedaling.

She grew from that and became more supportive to Pete after revealing her knowledge & background, no longer was she what Deadpool & Blind Al described her: "Dumb as a post"

 

[FreeRadical]

End of Spider-man 1: I can't love Mary Jane, I am Spider-man!
Beginning of Spider-man 2: I need Mary Jane!

What the happened between SM1 and SM2? Peter went from having a nice apartment and being confident at the end of the first film, to becoming a sappy, creepy manchild living in a dump! Imagine if Gwen was introduced in the second film and we had the developed Peter from the end of SM1? The romantic stuff could have been more in line with the comics, but instead we got a cardboard cut out romance. The bridge scene with Peter and MJ in SM3 was painful.

 

[FreeRadical]

Exactly. And every movie had MJ getting kidnapped. Every movie had the on again/off again... she loves... she loves me not. And then the Spidey NO MORE storyline revolved exclusively (not completely) around MJ.

Movie Mary Jane = TV's Smallville Lana Lang

The problem about movie Peter and Clark in Smallville is that the writers made them too dependent on their love interests/crushes. Clark even had his adopted dad killed just so Lana can live! I wonder why some superhero films/tv shows depend on the romance aspect at the expense of the main hero. The comic writers know how to write romantic stuff, why can't tv/movie writers do it as well (the Lois and Clark tv show shows a proper, mature, interesting romance plot involving a superhero can be done).

 

[Spider-Who?]

End of Spider-man 1: I can't love Mary Jane, I am Spider-man!
Beginning of Spider-man 2: I need Mary Jane!

What the happened between SM1 and SM2? Peter went from having a nice apartment and being confident at the end of the first film,

Pete was still living at his Aunt May's in the first film. There was no indication that he had moved. Also, one's ability to have enough confidence to make a decision does not guarantee their ability to emotionally handle that decision for long periods of time, especially when that decision is one that keeps you from the girl of your dreams that finally expressed their love for you. It's not an easy choice to make, and I doubt anyone would not have any problems with it.

to becoming a sappy, creepy manchild living in a dump! Imagine if Gwen was introduced in the second film and we had the developed Peter from the end of SM1? The romantic stuff could have been more in line with the comics, but instead we got a cardboard cut out romance. The bridge scene with Peter and MJ in SM3 was painful.

I'm not going to deny the fact that MJ wasn't the greatest character in the movies, nor that their relationship development or plot lines concerning it were second rate, but to call Peter a "creepy man-child" doesn't make any kind of sense, and complaining about him living in a cave makes just as little sense considering how poor he was.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

Spouting one-liners and being a "party girl" is not personality.

Yes it is. I think it's established in the comics she had a bad past and came from an abusive home, which is why she tried to cover up her homelife by patrying and generally being flirtatious.

I don't know what you're definition of 'personality' is, but anyone has a personality based on how they behave.

I hope the romance plot isn't rammed down our throats but I agree with people who say Peter's personal life is JUST as important as his superhero life. And it's VERY important that Gwen is portrayed right.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Yes it is. I think it's established in the comics she had a bad past and came from an abusive home, which is why she tried to cover up her homelife by patrying and generally being flirtatious.

I don't know what you're definition of 'personality' is, but anyone has a personality based on how they behave.

I hope the romance plot isn't rammed down our throats but I agree with people who say Peter's personal life is JUST as important as his superhero life. And it's VERY important that Gwen is portrayed right.

Agreed.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

I trust Webb will write good romance in the flick.

 

[CrypticOne]

You have Webb behind this film. I think it's safe to say that we will get quite a lot of romance between Gwen and Peter. Plus, Peter is a nerdy kid that wants a girlfriend. Bet on it!

 

[Gwendolyn Stacy]

I don't know about you guys, but I think Peter and Mary Jane's storyline was done really well. It makes me sad that he didn't propose to her. I'm really looking forward to Peter and Gwen's storyline.

 

[Doomed_hero]

I hope there is a good love story, but I hated that the SM trilogy was all about the romance. Every action Peter did was caused by how he felt for MJ. Now I like the spider-man comics and his and MJ's relationship, but the comics are about so much more then them. Spider-man faces real problems like people do everyday and I dont think thats been explored. He has a wounded psych that is dominated by regret and not being able to forgive himself. It all fits into this notion that people have no indentiy without a relationship and I am not really a fan of that

Plus m.j captured in every movie got really annoying.

 

[FreeRadical]

Pete was still living at his Aunt May's in the first film. There was no indication that he had moved. Also, one's ability to have enough confidence to make a decision does not guarantee their ability to emotionally handle that decision for long periods of time, especially when that decision is one that keeps you from the girl of your dreams that finally expressed their love for you. It's not an easy choice to make, and I doubt anyone would not have any problems with it.



I'm not going to deny the fact that MJ wasn't the greatest character in the movies, nor that their relationship development or plot lines concerning it were second rate, but to call Peter a "creepy man-child" doesn't make any kind of sense, and complaining about him living in a cave makes just as little sense considering how poor he was.

Peter did move to Harry's apartment, he had his own room that Norman Osborne thought was messy, and Aunt May visited for Thanksgiving.

Incoming Raimi rant:
Raimi's Peter was strange; dancing in the street, still being bullied in college, the constant crying etc. Peter's personality and confidence should increase because of the time spend being Spider-man. This happened in other media e.g comics, animated series, but why not the films. But the problem was Raimi's Spidey had no personality, only yahooing while webslinging and
screaming.
Why did Raimi's Peter like MJ? Was there anything to really connect them? MJ's background was not explained fully other that she dated jocks. She also seemed to cheat (even though SM1 MJ didn't want Harry to kiss her, but in SM2 she was going to kiss Peter in the cafe, while still engaged). Peter deserved better, but Raimi seemed to want Peter to get all the bad luck.
Raimi rant ends.

I have confidence with the new film, hopefully with a mature romance, no dancing and cheesiness. Emma Stone and Andrew Garfield look good together, almost like Tobey and Kirsten in SM1 before the chemistry died.

 

[Cheshire1996]

I absolutely hated that MJ seemed pretty pathetic, it seemed like they were trading in a lot of the original elements from the comics so that the latest super villain could get ahold of MJ to threaten Spidey. I don't mind if they want to include romance but I think think that to be fair they need to get it right.

I am looking exceptionally forward to the Amazing Spiderman though, I agree that Emma and Andrew look perfect.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Yes it is. I think it's established in the comics she had a bad past and came from an abusive home, which is why she tried to cover up her homelife by patrying and generally being flirtatious.

I don't know what you're definition of 'personality' is, but anyone has a personality based on how they behave.

I hope the romance plot isn't rammed down our throats but I agree with people who say Peter's personal life is JUST as important as his superhero life. And it's VERY important that Gwen is portrayed right.

"anyone has a personality based on how they behave".

I'm not sure what you mean by that. It's like when someone uses the word they're trying to define in the definition itself. It doesn't make sense.

What you're describing as "personality" is really just her backstory.

Actual personality is are sets of traits or characteristics that define an individual. Mary Jane and to an extent, Peter (in the comics, cartoons and movies) have never had any of these things. MJ is the party girl hiding her grief. She is defined by her tragedy, which is weak. That's not personality, that's a stereotype.

What are her characters interests, passions, hopes and dreams, etc...? These things have never been fleshed out or explored really, which is why these characters are so flat. They have so much potential that hasn't been explored. If 500 DoS is an indication, I know we'll get some characters with actual personality, not just cardboard cut-outs.

 

[FreeRadical]

I hope there is a good love story, but I hated that the SM trilogy was all about the romance. Every action Peter did was caused by how he felt for MJ. Now I like the spider-man comics and his and MJ's relationship, but the comics are about so much more then them. Spider-man faces real problems like people do everyday and I dont think thats been explored. He has a wounded psych that is dominated by regret and not being able to forgive himself. It all fits into this notion that people have no indentiy without a relationship and I am not really a fan of that

Plus m.j captured in every movie got really annoying.

True. The films didn't do much outside the romance, but it seems the new film will have more stuff e.g Peter and Gwen having a interest in science, Peter possibly interning at Oscorp, Peter's parents background etc.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Not another Raimi bashing thread

 

[TheSlag]

Not another Raimi bashing thread

Funny, I do not see it as "Raimi bashing". I see it as NOT wanting the same heavy handed, childish, immature, unrealistic romantic WB Gilmore Girls crap we got in the first 3 movies. *which just happened to be directed by the "R" Man* t: LOL

Seriously, it simply asking (as the thread title says), "Are they going to force (read heavy handed, immature, forced cliche diaglogue crap, etc.) the romance plot down our throats".... AGAIN?

And I think as others have pointed out, based solely on Webb's track record with solid character development, and with the promise of more serious storylines (NOT the ALL about ONE damn girl.. and puppy immature she loves me she loves me not.. CRYING CRAP*)... It certainly would not seem.. so.

AND... I think the better selection of storylines that appears to be forthcoming (i.e. death of Capt Stacy, and Gwen blaming Spider-Man)... that bodes well in this case too.