Are you happy with Marvel Comics, right now?

Discussion in 'Marvel Comics' started by Darthphere, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. Darthphere Kneel before 'Drox!

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    It's time for I, Darthphere to challenge your minds once again. I proved all your asses wrong with your supposed "continuity mistakes" in Civil War and now it's time for me to reach into your brains, and your hearts to ask what should be a simple question:

    Are you happy with the state of Marvel comics?

    Now, before this becomes another *****fest of epic proportions, this question speaks to content ONLY.

    I don't care about what you think about Joe Quesada or Bendis, or what they said, and how they said it, and how they sounded when they said it. This is about the comics. Are you happy with their comics right now?

    Overall, what do you think Marvel is doing right?

    What do you think Marvel is doing wrong?

    And where does that leave you in regards to your opinion of the quality of work?

    Answer the question, challenge your minds, and thank me later for making you finally use that brain of yours. And remember, if you agree with GAH, your opinions suck, so don't do that.

    *Note: A poll was to be added, but I thought it would be unfair to sum up your opinions in a couple of words or phrases.
     
  2. Darthphere Kneel before 'Drox!

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    I've been trying to answer this question for a while. It's simply really difficult to narrow the focus on everything they publish. I've swung both ways (damn) from negative to positive and have pretty much landed on the positive side of things. Marvel is publishing a lot of really good books, but it's really depressing to see that big books like Avengers and ASM and the like have really gathered little excitement from me. But right now, yeah, Marvel is making me happy, could I be happier? Yes, but you got to choose your battles.
     
  3. PhotoJones Registered

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    Overall, yeah. I'm happy with Marvel Comics right now.

    I think they're really good at putting the right creative team on the right book. Brubaker, Lark and Gaudiano on Daredevil, Brubaker, Epting, Perkins and Guice on Captain America, Brubaker, Fraction and Aja on Immortal Iron Fist, Daniel and Charles Knauf, de la Torre and Guice on Iron Man, Fraction, Kitson and Evans on The Order, Carey and Bachalo on X-Men, PAD, Eaton and Raimondi on X-Factor, JMS and Coipel on Thor, DnA, Chen and Pelletier on Nova, Slott and Caselli on Avengers: The Initiative, Ennis, Larosa, Fernandez, Parlov and Medina on Punisher MAX, Fraction, Olivetti and Wegener on Punisher War Journal, Reed and Weeks on Captain Marvel, BKV and Martin on Dr. Strange, Pak, Pags, Kirk, Frank, JRJR on Hulk/WWH, Heinberg and Cheung on Young Avengers, Rucka and Robertson and Aaron and Garney on Wolverine, JMS, JRJR and Garney and Amazing Spider-Man, Cherniss, Johnson and Briones on Sub-Mariner, Grevioux and Medina on New Warriors, Cebulski and Moline on Loners, BKV and Alphona on Runaways and I'll even so far as to say Slott, McNiven, Gale, Wells, Jimenez, Larocca, Bachalo, Guggenheim, JRJR and Martin on Amazing Spider-Man are all genius creative teams. That's what Marvel does best, in my opinion.

    Big events. It's not even that they do too many of them, it's that they do them for the wrong reasons and with the wrong writers behind them. They rely too much on shock value storytelling instead of organic storytelling.

    I obviously don't like everything, but what they do get right outweighs what they don't by far.
     
  4. Xofenroht The Mad Moreno

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    The main flaw that I notice in Marvel Comics is how much they reveal in solicits. It makes the stories very predictable and whether the information leaks or it starts as a rumor, the quality of the experience decreases.
    The one I've been slightly bothered by is what's going on with "The Avengers". They have always been a team of prestige within the Marvel Universe, a moral example and dividing them into not only two teams, but two OPPOSING teams takes away from that. To drive it home, I used to get excited whenever I heard that someone was joining The Avengers, but now, it means nothing. There is great potential in the stories you can tell with just one "Avengers".
    Now, with their plans post-OMD being taken into consideration, along with the work on the X-titles, the revitalization of Thor, the struggles of Captain America...Marvel is doing a great job in contrasting themselves from their Distinguished Competition. The storytellers they have chosen to work on these titles (to name a few) really do great job creating the appropriate atmosphere for those characters.
    I'm very excited about Secret Invasion, but I hope the huge crossovers end soon. I understand that comic strips became comic books and that the next step might be graphic novels, but really...why? Why have this huge, life-altering story arc when you can just have a series of very amazing, very intense stand-alone stories?
     
  5. moraldeficiency Maxwell's Demon

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    Good question, overall (and I say this after being kicked in the balls repeatedly on my favorite character I'd say yes. Based only on what I pick up regularly or used to.

    the good:

    Iron Fist
    Cap.
    AtI
    X-books (for the most part, I liked MC as a whole and I like where it might lead)
    ASG
    The space books (conquest isn't anniliation but I still like what they're doing)
    Thor
    Incredible
    Daredevil
    Iron Man

    The Bad:

    BP (god I hate this book, and it kills me cause there's so much potential)
    ultimate line (I like USM for the most part but that's it)
    NA
    MA
    ASM

    What I love:

    Grouping space characters and letting them do stuff in space. If you can split a world in two you should have all your adventures on one planet (sentry), there's a whole universe I'm glad it's being looked into.

    The MK minis- I loved Reign and Requiem. I'd like to see more of these.

    Heroes in conflict. I like how after Civil War there's now types of heroes. It gives more depth and character development and feels like something that could definately happen. It's not being done or used how I think should be, but that doesn't mean the potential isn't there.

    The staff. Some of the best writers and artists I've ever seen are working right now.

    What I hate:

    Spider-Man dealing with the devil. (I will say no more)

    The avengers. nothing in these books seem remotely in character for anyone. It's like reading an ultimate (groan) version for all the characters with horrible dialogue and little thought given to stories or outcomes.

    Editorial Mandates. No smoking? SOS? Micro management on artists never works well. And I'm fairly worried about some of these long term skrull reveals.

    What I'd like to see:

    A Doc Strange series with a well written Doctor Strange. In fact if they grouped the mystical and gave them an anniliation type thing (dormammu, baron Mordo, Nightmare haven't been used in a while) with him and a few others like Ghost Rider and Son of Satan. It's untapped for the most part cause everyone's afraid to go near mystic characters.

    Silver Surfer ongoing please.

    Bring back Young Avengers and Loners as ongoings, and keep them away from the iniative unless necessary. It would be nice to have a team book not harp on this for a change.

    Events are fine and tie ins are fine too but keep them sensible. If the character's not involved don't force them to be so. Keep them short and to the point, and people will recieve them better.
     
  6. Blader5489 CASUAL SEX!

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    Yes.

    I'm not going to write an essay on all the good and bad I think Marvel has done, I'm just going to leave it at that: I am pretty happy with Marvel comics right now.
     
  7. Red King Littlefinger

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    I think they need to take a year off event-wise, let the dust settle for once instead of going round and round; with prologue's, tie-ins, aftermaths...
     
  8. Roughneck Registered

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    I dislike certain things that they are doing to re-establish the status quo......when they should realize it's perfectly acceptable to set a new Status Quo.

    Also, the Ultimate Unverse is supposed to represent the orignal Status Quo....if we wanted an Unmarried Teenager Spider-man we can read ultimate.
     
  9. Sloth7d Escapist

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    Spider-man

    Everything else. Though I do feel that new heroes like Arana and Gravity aren't getting off to a new start in the fact that Marvel isn't concentrating on them enough. I understand that marvel primarily wants to keep focus on it's known heroes, but they need to realize that they also need to focus on the new heroes since you can only milk so many stories out of the old ones before they go dry. Then what are you gonna do? That's why I'm really enjoying A:TI right now. Primary focus is on a lot of new heroes, and good stories are coming from it as well. It makes me wonder if they should just cram all the newbies like Arana into the A:TI book.

    Last remark: What I said about the heroes goes for the villains too.
     
  10. Xofenroht The Mad Moreno

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    Honestly though, I just don't think Marvel has had a new character that was both very original and also very appealing to the fans. This can easily be remedied by doing a re-imagining of a more obscure character, like what DC did when Vertigo was introduced.
     
  11. Doc Destruction Geaux Saints!

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    Overall, no. There are a few glimpses of greatness. but they're pretty much buried by the major titles around them.

    I think Marvel's talent pool and use of the media to sell books is brilliant. Their films are fun as hell and all worth seeing minus Elektra.

    I think the wrong is painful. Letting the animals run the zoo without any editorial control has led to some cool ideas, but a LOT of bad continuity and mischaracterization. Admittedly, the WORST idea was editorial, but anyone who knows me understands that I'm not a Joey Q fan. We see deadlines completely blown off, ignored, delayed, and sometimes books just DON'T finish at all (Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk anyone?).

    I miss the heroes WINNING from time to time. Even Messiah Complex, which I had high hopes for and was truly enjoying, ended on a downer with the heroes "disassembled" AGAIN.

    I think things can be great again, once we get out of this grim and gritty phase. At least I hope so. In the meantime, I'll just stick to the few Marvel books that I really enjoy and bide my time. I have for this long.
     
  12. Dread TMNT 1984-2009

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    Good question. :up:

    I'll try to be even handed on this, as I do ***** a lot.

    While "certain writers" within the company still seem to be given more leeway and leverage, and outright control over the MU and all of it's characters moreso than others, Marvel has been trying to spread the talent around. Greg Pak wrote last year's event and while WWH was hardly perfect, it was better than Bendis' HOM and had more of a solid beginning, middle, and end than Millar & Co.'s CIVIL WAR (even if that garnered more attention and bore more fruit). Dan Slott has gone from fan-friendly B-Lister to fan-friendly A-Lister, although that sometimes means he has to tow the company line. Brubaker is still kicking ass on all levels on CAPTAIN AMERICA. Right now, also, I think Marvel is putting out good relaunches, by and large. IRON FIST is great. I enjoy NEW WARRIORS. Reed & Week's CAPTAIN MARVEL mini so far has taken a premise that was jack-stupid when Jenkins tried it and really made it matter and enjoyable. THOR's success really doesn't have to be restated; he's a Top 5-10 seller, and JMS & Coipel are really on their game. Even THE LAST DEFENDERS are trying to revive the Defenders a bit. OMEGA FLIGHT jazzed up the Canadian super-team, and even if internal indecisions hampered it, the quality of the work was there. And PUNISHER: WAR JOURNAL is pretty darn funny, and it has been a while since the Punisher could successfully sell 2 ongoings. While MOON KNIGHT & GHOST RIDER are past their prime, even those relaunches have been better than some of the stabs the 90's attempted.

    Unlike DC, which may be seeing line-wide diminishing returns by connecting EVERYTHING to one storyline over the past 2-3 years, Marvel at least is mixing things up. There are connections but it all isn't the same thing. CW brought about some good books like AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE, THE ORDER (sniffle) and NEW WARRIORS, among others. Even MIGHTY AVENGERS, while not that great, is often better than NEW AVENGERS.

    And need I mention ANNIHILATION CONQUEST? While not as good as the original, it still is pretty damn good with good characters, art, and the return of the REAL Ultron. The same writers (DnA) are also continuing on NOVA's most successful relaunch in years, funneling the shift in him from interesting B-Lister to potential A-List potential.

    While many books try to be "serious" and so on, there are some books that have lighter moments, like X-MEN: FIRST CLASS and recently, DAMAGE CONTROL.

    Finally, the X-Line has trimmed some fat in regards to mini's and one-shots and whatnot from even 2 years ago. Granted, that is being replaced by the Avengers-****eing, but no matter. ;)

    The story of the year right now is Ultimate. After a good 7-8 years in continuity, it is suffering from the same problems it was meant to fix. The titles sell well enough to publish, but not nearly as well as they sold even in 2005. Most of the A-List talent that launched the line is gone, save for Bendis on USM, and not even that can crack the Top 20 most months anymore (once upon a time, this outsold ASM). Ultimate Fantastic Four can't even crack the Top 50 anymore, and Ultimate X-Men's decline has been steady. ULTIMATE POWER was a failure like every "event" that has been tried in Ultimate. The core talent has moved to 616 and, for better or worse, many of the "innovative ideas" they brought up. Without that, Ultimate is a shell of itself. It may be a make-or-break year for Ultimate. I'm down to one book from that imprint, and I likely wouldn't miss it if Ultimate ended. It helped get me back into comics when I was 18-19 in 2000-2001,, but it may be time to let go. The designs will still be there to help multi-media outlets, after all.

    The other big dilemma is Spider-Man, and it is a damned shame that nothing seems to change for the better for long for the web-slinger. The end of the 90's were a disaster for him. The "relaunch" and the final gasp of Mackie in the dawn of Joe Q's EIC tenure didn't produce better results (and was the first go-around of "let's split up the Parkers"; second if you count the Clone Saga and replacing Peter with Ben as a grand scheme to get Spider-Man "single" again). Then JMS came aboard and injected magical crap that didn't belong, and had to face Joe Q's direct influence; from the dreaded Stacy Twins to ONE MORE DAY itself. Spider-Man was faced with endless retons, and new powers no one used. The attempts to ape the films didn't produce anything good. And finally, Spider-Man was further removed from his roots with the unmasking, being an Avenger in a tower, and being inept as an Avenger to boot. Nothing seemed to work for Spidey. Marvel's created their biggest problems with him by trying to "fix" him, and that dates back to before Joe Q was EIC. It has been going on nearly 15 years now. ONE MORE DAY created the worst situation on every level; a status quo the fans didn't want in a manner that was jack-stupid-******ed, and caused the ascension of Slott to ASM after 3 years of fan-support into an awkward move, at best. I'm sure the sales will be better than fan-outrage predicted, but I hardly know anyone who was a fan and enjoys this. Bendis once said something to the effect of, "you often get into trouble when you keep trying to fix things; Fixing and fixing, just tell good stories". While he himself doesn't heed this advice, those words fit Spider-Man's problems. Every year it seems for the past decade or longer, Spidey has been in the dumps. I'd argue he has become the Sonic the Hedgehog of Marvel. A flagship hero of a company who has been allowed to fall so, so, so low.

    Another issue is the lack of patience & promotion that Marvel has with new franchises. Really, an article or two at Newsarama really doesn't cut it anymore, especially with something BRAND NEW like THE ORDER. Some of the blame is also on retailers and fan support itself, natch, but new blood is good for the MU and sometimes needs to be indulged. Really, is giving everything a year or more a bad thing? DC understands that, that's why they kept their BLUE BEETLE and FIRESTORM titles around so long.

    Finally, while sales don't see to reflect this, I and some other fans are tired of events. We are tired of seeing characters we love twisted, broken, and even destroyed (in flesh or characterization) just for a cheap buck or a shocking splash panel. We are also tired of retcons that, more often than not, albeit with few exceptions, are more about a writer putting their stamp on a franchise out of arrogance or ego than any good for the company. We just had CW split the heroes apart in angst and misery, and WWH at least mobilized them again; now SECRET INVASION is ratcheting up the retcon paranoia, and it is by Bendis, a man who writes cyclical, predictable stories that are far too long and far too juvenile. It also is Marvel's 3rd "event" with Secret in the title; it is almost as bad as "war(s)" or DC's love of "Crisis".

    Y'know, before OMD #4 when I was planning my Best/Worst of 2007 topic, my opinion on Marvel was actually positive, moreso than it had been in 2006 or 2005. The Spider-crap deflated all that, but I guess if I am being objective, I would have to say that I like about 53% of what Mavel is doing and dislike 47% of it.

    Thanks, this was a worthy topic and question. :D Sorry if it got a bit long; that shows I took the topic seriously, I guess. :o
     
  13. Texas Registered

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    How about NOVA ?
     
  14. Harlekin Business

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    I am not unhappy.
     
  15. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    Overall I'm happy. It's just two or three areas that suck right now.
     
  16. GNR Registered

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    I'm very happy with Marvel Comics at the moment.

    Most of their titles have a great sense of direction,intriguing storylines and most of all beautiful art all across the board,one of many things they have DC outgunned in.

    A few thoughts...

    Iron Fist
    - Brubaker and Fraction are busting the mythology wide open with new concepts,mysteries and ideas,while Aja turns in some inventive and design heavy art,the supporting cast has gone through the roof with instant hits like Orson Randall,Fat Cobra,Davos,Lei Kung and John Aman just to name a few

    Captain America - killing Cap was a bold move,but Bru has dealt with the aftermath appropriately and really kept fans guessing from the get go,the effects of Bucky becoming the new Cap should only add to the suspense

    Thunderbolts - Deodato's shadow heavy art mixed with Ellis' disturbing characterizations have proven to be a winning combo on this very entertaining and jaw dropping book,Venom has never looked more cooler and scary

    Thor - seeing Thor reclaim his identity,his home and his friends rather then being tied up in any events or typical "return of" arc has been a standout read every month,I also love what JMS is doing by placing a god in real world situations,the Africa and Katrina arcs had a good balance and were not heavy handed,Thor has such a presence in this book as well,some of that credit has to go to Coipel

    Iron Man - Marvel's under the radar book,a techno/political thriller mixed with superheroes and some near flawless dialog,the Knaufs' take on Iron Man and the newly rejuvenated Mandarin have been very impressive,fans of Cap should take note of this book's greatness and check it out

    -Daredevil has been lagging a bit during the past 8 issues for a variety of reasons,Bru's 2 opening arcs have been the high point

    -shame to see The Order go so soon,count on Fraction to end this one nicely though

    -Punisher War Journal started off on a real high note,#1-7 really had some nice high octane action and suspense,the middle of the Hate Monger arc dragged a little but ended well,the WWH tie in was a waste of paper,the last 3 issues were a nice departure from the grim and gritty but it's really time for Fraction to get this title started

    -Incredible Hercules is only 2 issues in but proving to be a real winner with a subtle mix of greek mythology and MU history,looking forward to more god on god action and Herc's past allies and brothers in arms showing up

    -Loeb seems to be breaking the internet recently,Ultimates 3 has been a serious departure from what came before,but Loeb really made that clear nearly 2 or 3 years ago when this was announced so I haven't been as bitter or angry as other readers have.Hulk got off to a surprisingly good start.It's going to be nice to have a meat and potatoes Hulk book with smashing galore.

    -JMS' The Twelve has some serious potential,another title that should keep fans guessing,great to see Marvel finally doing something with their golden age characters
     
  17. Docker2.0 Watchin' you!

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    Ah man! Don't bring this book up! I can't even buy it any more. Thing is, if you buy it, then they'll continue to put out crap but ifyou don't buy it, they'll cancel it. You can't win for losing with freakin Marvel! :cmad:
     
  18. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

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    Generally? In the most non-specific way?

    No.

    I think they could be writing a lot of stories a lot better. I see no reason to be excited by anything in the X-verse at the moment -- even X-Factor is sort of losing steam -- and the Avengers-verse remains as uninspiring and cringe-inducing as it has been in past years. Add Spider-Man into the mix -- you know what I'm talking about -- and that's a gargantuan portion of the company's work that's just sort of drab and annoying.

    BUT!

    I think that a lot of things are also improving a bit. And I think some of the excellent work from certain corners of the company do a lot to excuse the horrible work for other corners. I could frankly subsist on the Annihilation series of books alone if I had to.

    So, in the most general sense, no I'm not satisfied.

    But...in a lot of ways, I guess I am.

    *shrug*

    S'not gonna stop me from btching about everything here, of course.
     
  19. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    That was such a non-answer. :o
     
  20. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

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    In a lot of ways, it was.
     
  21. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    Gah, commit to something! :cmad:
     
  22. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

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    He's not here.
     
  23. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    It was, but it was also meant as a reference to what the obnoxiousness of BW's wishy-washiness is comparable to.
     
  24. Arkady Rossovich Registered

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    I only Messiah CompleX and Iron Fist are good. Everything else is bad,OMD and BND reek of evil.
     
  25. GNR Registered

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    How do you know everything else is bad?Do you read anything else besides those are you just going by the opinions of fanboy internetters?
     

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