Arnold Is Back for Terminator 5

[jmc]

As far as I'm concerned Terminator 3 and Salvation don't exist. The series ended with film 2.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Afraid you lost me when you said "a la Superman Returns".

What does that have to do with anything? You are thinking because it didn't work for some entirely different story with an entirely different cast and crew it also wouldn't work for the Terminator series??

People get so hung up on the weirdest little things, and then they miss the whole point of the post. Happened to me already today on SHH... so odd.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

When are they gonna learn that Terminator without Jim Cameron is a man without his vertebrae. Even if you bring back his manhood (Arnold) it matters little.

 

[dude stannis]

Eh, not necessarily. Cameron may have created it, but his last two films don't show a man who wants to make the kind of Terminator film we want.

Besides, Megan Ellison is far hungrier and more interested in the property than Cameron.

 

[bullets]

Afraid you lost me when you said "a la Superman Returns".

People, including some of the directors, seem to be forgetting that Arnold was just one Terminator. The T-800's don't all look like him. Plus the T-800 is rather obsolete by both the standards in the story and by our own.

They need to try something new. No more retreads. No 65-year old Model 101. Time to move on.

Isn't Arnold the reason this film is being green-lit?

 

[Solidus]

Ehhh a lot can change. The man has 6 films under his belt and he's also talking Conan. I think it may be a while, and in that time I hope they kinda realize that doing "sequels" off of T3 and T4 is just not the best way to go. I'd rather now see either a reboot, or something that was like SR that takes place after T2 and introduces a new model. I would not mind Arnie for a cameo, but that would be all I would want.

And in honesty Arnold's name is not near the power and draw it use to be, I don't know if a huge sci-fi would rely on him. Sadly enough most of this younger generation does not care for Arnold as some of us did. He was more of a relic of the 80's/early 90's. I don't know if his marketing power is that strong anymore.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Isn't Arnold the reason this film is being green-lit?

I wouldn't know. But if they're trying to recapture what they had in Terminator 2 (like they did, rather unsuccessfully in Terminator 3), this is going to crash and burn.

Arnold's age was showing in Terminator 3. That was a decade ago. He'll be in his late sixties by the time this movie gets started. Not to mention the continuity problems and plot holes his character even being in that movie brings about (not that anyone has cared since 2).

It's a shame because the first movies were great. I'd rather see the series retired (maybe with a reboot down the road) than another 3.

 

[Solidus]

Well it's almost the 30th anniversary. And Megan bought the rights so they are going to do it, so there is no stopping that. The question is what should they do? I say reboot it. Instead of trying to do something with it after a few bad films. I have faith in Megan though, she is a true film fanatic, and I hope with her guidance she will do good with Terminator. I mean anything is better then Vanja and Kassar. They ran it into the ground.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I say they should go ahead with it. They can't mess things up much more than they already are. They have nothing to lose and a lot to gain if it ends up being a great film.

So again, I say they ignore T:3 and T:Salvation and go with the idea I mentioned on the last page.

 

[bullets]

Well it's definitely not going to be like Terminator 2. They need to let Arnold pass the torch or something.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Here is my idea, explained a bit more fully:

The film opens after John Connor has sent Kyle Reese back in time. Connor destroys the time travel facility, then escapes the area. He is plagued, however, by guilt, knowing that he sent his father back to his certain death without telling him the truth about their relationship.

As the resistance solidifies under John's leadership, Skynet begins stepping up their assault tactics, unveiling the new and improved T-1000s (Robert Patrick) which begin replacing the T-800s (Arnold Schwarzenegger). Skynet builds another time travel facility. Vowing not to send another human being back to their certain death, John captures a T-800 and performs a strike mission to extract the codes necessary to reprogram it.

He sends the T-800 back in time (to stop the T-1000) and in that mission discovers a secret weapon being developed by Skynet that could, in the right hands, change the course of the war. Connor vows to honor his father's death by doing whatever he can, whatever it takes, to save Earth. The film ends primed for a sequel.

PLUS with this idea you could in theory not even address T3 and T:Salvation. Recast John Connor. The audience can choose to believe T3 and t:Salvation happened, or not. My film idea only really compliments the first two films. The other two are rendered optional.

After this, no sequel needs to feature Arnold (as his model will no longer be in production). Sequels wouldn't even have to feature Robert Patrick, as they could begin the sequel a few years later or something, with all new Terminator models.

 

[Solidus]

No that goes against what really happened. The T-800 and T-1000 were sent back minutes apart. Skynet's defense grid was smashed, he was dying, it was a last ditch effort. The war was won and over with in 2029 when then they sent back the T-800/Kyle as protectors. And that is what angered me so bad was the disregard for what happened in the first two with T3 and TS.

Kyle clearly stated the war was over, as did Cameron, also the un filmed scene (in script form) how T2 originally opened was awesome. It showed the TDE (which was used in the film Contact funny enough since it was unused concept art) and also it clearly showed Skynet was finished.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Yeah, I remember what Kyle said about Skynet being on the verge of defeat, but I figured given T2 that Skynet had a brief rebound. Why would Skynet send a T-800 and a T-1000 minutes apart? Why not send two T-1000s? I don't think that makes sense. Can you remind me where it is stated that they were sent back a few minutes apart?

Admittedly my idea may require some tweaking.

 

[Solidus]

It was never flat out said, but Kyle indicated the war was won. Look up the T2 alternate opening that was never filmed and it was clear.

You have to understand a few things and when I say all this it's without T3/TS.

In Terminator (which I thought was the brilliance/uniqueness of it) Time can't be altered. It is an interesting theory as well. If someone actually made a time machine, that means in a linear timeline it always happened that say Dr. Smith made the time machine. So of course he will go back in time, that means that no matter what he always went back in time. Hence time can't be changed. Because technically as some have said, if time travel exists, we would be seeing visitors if that was so. So with Terminator, Skynet sent back the T-800/T-1000 as he was dying quickly to kill John Connor in the past. Then John sends back his protectors. And oddly enough, because of this time travel, fate happens. John never had another father named Joe Schmoe. It was always Kyle Reese from the future. All the dialogue and pictures so on so forth always show that John's father was not from this time. So Skynet really created John in that sense. As well as he created himself always. Because Skynet sending back the T-800 and it getting crushed leads to the technology that builds Skynet in the future by Cyberdyne. So it's cyclical, and it will always happen that way. There is no "alternate time lines" or "delaying" things.

T2's original Future Coda ending which you can find on youtube I'm sure. Showed a happy ending and Sarah talking about the new future. But Cameron cut it realizing it made no sense, and that they could not change the future. Because a future without Skynet means no Time machine, which means no John Connor. If Skynet (dies before 2029) so does John, and vice versa, they rely on each other and the war and the time machine. So in 1997 no matter what Judgment day happens. So if we were to have another T3 being the rise of the machines which I would like to see, it would have to take place in 97.

TS ignores this many times as does T3. But Kyle said in T1 he was born after the war. And in T3 Judgment day is "pushed back" to 2003/2004. So in TS he was 15 years old in 2015 which means he was born before the war. Which is not the case. However most indication is that Reese was born in 2000 or so, but it was "after" 1997 the real date of Judgment Day.

So in T2 with the alternate opening Cameron cut because he realized that it had all been said in words in T1, and so doing this would take away the suspense of not knowing the T-800 was good this time, and it was expensive lol. The original scene showed the T-800 from T1 being sent back (or indication that it had minutes earlier) and that the T-1000 had been sent back as the bust down the door pretty much. So they quickly send back Reese, and then John goes into a giant freezer where there are hundreds of Model 101's, and he goes up and down (I always loved the sound of this scene) to the identical 101's, but it's like he is searching for the right one the one he knows is the one he met as a kid, and he picks one, and then it goes through time and they destroy the place.

There were no multiple TDE's, only one, Skynet used it as a last ditch effort but was shut down quickly after. Maybe later I will try to find the concept art/part of that script. It's online I know.

So the T2 ending is the way it is now because he realized that it really would not end like that.

 

[Solidus]

http://www.hopeofthefuture.net/deletedscenes/t2del_index.html

Go down to omitted scenes, and there is all the storyboards/concept art for the original opening scene. And this site is a person who posts here, and a old friend of mine.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Ha, I just found it through Google and read it before you posted the link. Thanks for the explanation of it all. I wish that scene had been filmed.

From what I can recall and find online, Kyle said John Connor "brought them back from the brink." That just means they turned things around. Also, since the scripted scene of the TDE takeover was never filmed, I'm not sure it should be considered official canon. So I think my plot idea still has legs and doesn't really contradict anything, though I'm open to being proven wrong.

Also, I should add, the scripted scene mentions nothing about the T-1000 that I can tell...

 

[CGHulk]

As far as I'm concerned Terminator 3 and Salvation don't exist. The series ended with film 2.

I agree!

 

[Solidus]

Ha, I just found it through Google and read it before you posted the link. Thanks for the explanation of it all. I wish that scene had been filmed.

From what I can recall and find online, Kyle said John Connor "brought them back from the brink." That just means they turned things around. Also, since the scripted scene of the TDE takeover was never filmed, I'm not sure it should be considered official canon. So I think my plot idea still has legs and doesn't really contradict anything, though I'm open to being proven wrong.

Also, I should add, the scripted scene mentions nothing about the T-1000 that I can tell...

No it was Cannon that they won. You are getting your timeline messed up. John turned them from the brink around 2015, it was when humanity was almost over. He taught them to fight back and rise up over a decade or so. So no, that's not what he means.

Kyle says something like this in the car with Sarah: "Skynet's defense grid was smashed. We'd won!"

So yes it is cannon that the war was over, Kyle was there for it. It was said in T1. Go back and watch the scene where Kyle explains everything in the car in the parking garage.

 

[AnneFan]

As far as I'm concerned Terminator 3 and Salvation don't exist. The series ended with film 2.

Those first two are always going to be all I need in terms of Terminator.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

But at the end of Terminator 2 Sarah mentions that Judgement Day was delayed.

 

[PSYLENTGuardian]

Solidus, are you a user on Terminator Files? I'm glad to see another user who knows his stuff.

But at the end of Terminator 2 Sarah mentions that Judgement Day was delayed.

I don't remember this at all These are Sarah's last lines in T2:

The unknown future rolls toward us. I face it, for the first time, with a sense of hope. Because if a machine, a Terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

But they delayed the original judgement day.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Okay, I really should be directing this at the people who made Terminator 3, but did people miss the whole part in the second movie where they destroyed the stuff that would become Skynet? The research. The arm. The chip. The back ups (they even mention the back ups, presumably so no inferior sequels could be made). Its most important scientist killed himself.

Did people not watch the second half of the movie? If not, you should, it's a great movie.

Skynet wasn't delayed. It was destroyed. There was nothing left. Nada.

Now, you could do a storyline where terminators come about anyway (like the ride, or the TV show). But it would not be in any way directly related to Skynet.

 

[Alien Anal]

I want the future war that T1 and T2 shows. Plasma rifles and terminators everywheere.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Future: There's a war that starts in 1997 and in 2029 when the machines start losing, they send a Terminator to the past to kill John Connor's mother (knowing nothing at this point about Kyle). John, knowing about this event from his mother's training, sends Kyle to save John (by protected Sarah and impregnating her).

T1:The Terminator has no idea what Sarah looks like so he kills every Sarah Connor he can find in a specific city (obviously the Machines have some sort of record if they know WHERE to go and WHAT John's mother's name was). Kyle arrives, is caught by the police and gives several statements to the police and a psychiatrist about the future tech, war and why he is there aswell as who sends he and then he escapes and saves Sarah. He is then killed after leaving her pregnant. Sarah keeps the knowledge of the future to train John to be a step of the game in the future. The arm that is left behind is what leads to the jump in technology (already an alternate timeline is created as humanity is given a headstart on tech.)

T2: Judgement day is 2 years away and Sarah is in an asylum giving warnings about the future, talking about the importance of John, her encounter with Kyle and the Terminators. A Terminator arrives from the (unaltered) future to protect Sarah from a more advanced Terminator. (Both arrive at an insitution where both Machines had record of in the future, so that would mean that they have accessed the files in this institution.) In the end, they find out that the arm was found leading to fastly advancing technology in a timeline that is only just coming into existence. They destroy the lab that would have caused Judgement day and the little footprint they left in time from T1 turns into a crater in the spacetime continuum as they prevented judgement day. The future of T1 and T2 is now out of the picture due to what happens in T2's present day.

T3:A Terminator comes to the past (from the future that was created due to the events of T2's present) to kill John's generals (this again changes the future) and in the end uploads the last part of the skynet virus. The virus was already launching, but the new Terminator uploads files into the Skynet system and the machine's protocol. Wouldn't you think that she would also give a forewarning to all of the machine's when she did this just like when Kyle warned Sarah? When this happens, time is altered yet again and John is worried. The T-800 tells John about the future (conceived due to the events of T2's present), but again, the future is altered again when the T-X updates the virus in 2004.

Terminator Salvation: We finally jump a bit into the future, but this isn't the same future that Sarah was warned about in T1 because that timeline was altered when the arm was found and when Judgement Day was prevented. This isn't the events of the future created due to the prevention of Judgement Day either as half of the important military figures were killed and the virus updated the Skynet system. The events we see in TS are caused by the events of Present Day T3. Half of John's friends/comrads/soon-to-be soldiers never even lived to see judgement day and the machines of this time period know of the events leading up to the death of John Connor (based on the timeline following the events of T2's present). So now we have a John Connor who believes he knows Skynets every move, and a Skynet that thinks it knows John Connor's every move. Skynet tries to alter the would-be time again by using a "would-be" general of John's as bait (they know he's important as in the future we see in T3, based on the events of T2 he's supposed to be a general, and he gave a statement back in the 80's about the future (they don't know Skynet's perspective from the original 2029 because that timeline no longer exists)) So Skynet knowing now that Kyle is important to John and knowing that John is the one who will lead the resistance (as the T-X forewarned Skynet in T3) tries to lure John to one of Skynet's facilities to kill him using the first T-800. This T-800 is more powerful than the T-800s in the first three as the records that the T-X uploaded into the Skynet server in T3 probably mentioned the T-800's weaknesses (which is why the new T-800s are invulnerable to molten metal but in T2 that's how the T-800 killed himself).

Now I wouldn't be surprised if in T5 the T-800s are almost impossible to control. Look some people like to say how TS and T3 were completely BS and confusing because they have plot holes and miss points made in the other terminator films, but in all honestly, these are movies about time travel and about changing things to alter the future. The timeline changes every film, and it's been like this since the beginning of T1 when Kyle spoke to the police (on record) about the future. This alone, would lead to some changes in the future.