Arrow Arrow #3.21: “Al Sah-him

[dude stannis]

Also, while not as gross as Dominic Torretto turning down a tap Belgian ale for Corona, dipping chips in your milkshake is still gross.

 

[Prep Time]

Agreed, this section has sadly become toxic.

Have you been to the Fantastic Four movie forum ?

 

[Hunter Rider]

Have you been to the Fantastic Four movie forum ?

That's beyond toxic, it's the forum equivalent of Chernobyl.

 

[kane9321]

I'm shipping Nyssa/Laurel

i hate laurel...but just to have NYSSA ON MY SCREEN...YES

I LOVED Felicity...But now shes getting on MY LAST FN NERVE..SHUT UP Felicity
I'm really getting tired of oliver beating nyssa...IT SHOULD NEVER EVER HAPPEN

 

[Prep Time]

That's beyond toxic, it's the forum equivalent of Chernobyl.

Exactly that forum will pretty much make any other negative place look good

 

[Justin]

Yeah negativity on a forum isn't great, sorry guys.

Looking on the positive side, this was probably the best flashback episode of the season. And if R'as had the bioweapon, it makes sense that Maseo is there to obtain/secure it.

If this was Oliver's secret/hidden reason for joining the league it would sit better with me, if he'd had a chat with Maseo etc and thats why he came back, then pretended to do their bidding, that would be ok for me.

But the whole thing with saving his sister, then getting brainwashed to the point he'll kill diggle without hesitation, and go and wipe out his city, including his sister. It's just not the best reasoning.

Some really good spots/moments this season, i.e agreeing to team up with merlyn, the fight with r'as, thea's fight with r'as.. but the writing to get to these spots is just nonsensical at times.

 

[Lencho01]

 

[HighFivingMF]

But the whole thing with saving his sister, then getting brainwashed to the point he'll kill diggle without hesitation, and go and wipe out his city, including his sister. It's just not the best reasoning.

Reasoning on the behalf of who? R'as killed Thea to push Oliver into joining up, then brainwashed him to the point beyond caring for them. It's not like Oliver knows what he's doing or knew what he'd be doing when he joined up. And seems like leaving the "making you kill everyone you care about after we brainwash you" part out until Oliver was already under his influence was pretty logical on the Demon's behalf.

 

[Grommers]

I'm not convinced Oliver's even remotely brainwashed. This is just a coy to out smart ras, get trained by ras, and then be able to beat him. He would have slaughtered diggle in a sword fight, and he chose not too, he also would have to play this incredibly close to the chest with my only guess is that Malcolm knows.

 

[Justin]

Reasoning on the behalf of who? R'as killed Thea to push Oliver into joining up, then brainwashed him to the point beyond caring for them. It's not like Oliver knows what he's doing or knew what he'd be doing when he joined up.

Reasoning from the writing staff really.

I don't believe this story at all because they're essentially changing characters they've built to fit what is essentially a Batman story.

Case in point, team Arrow knows Oliver is back in Starling but begrudgingly accepts that he's not Oliver anymore and don't even try to save him. Last week they'd do anything to save him. Oliver kills who he thinks is Diggle without a second thought while Maseo's brainwashing drops for Diggle who he didn't even know.

They use things such as brainwashing as and when it suits them. They need Maseo to help them escape so he's not that brainwashed. But they want Oliver to kill his friends without hesitation so he's heavily brainwashed, likely to be easily overcome by Felicity delivering a love monlogue in a future episode. And lets not even talk about Merlyn.

To me, there's just better ways they could get the moments they want on screen without compromising the characters they built up over two seasons. This bio weapon being in R'as hands would be the perfect plot device for Oliver to join the league without having to include the lazarus pit for the sake of lazarus pit... like where are the consequences of thea being in the pit? She's straight away up and about.

The writing is sloppy, that's all i'm saying,

 

[HighFivingMF]

Reasoning from the writing staff really.

I don't believe this story at all because they're essentially changing characters they've built to fit what is essentially a Batman story.

Alright.

Case in point, team Arrow knows Oliver is back in Starling but begrudgingly accepts that he's not Oliver anymore and don't even try to save him.

The story isn't over, and they're clearly headed out to save him in the preview for next week's episode.

Oliver kills who he thinks is Diggle without a second thought while Maseo's brainwashing drops for Diggle who he didn't even know.

I thought it was obvious that Oliver's brainwashing was a lot stronger than the other League members'. Have you seen how many people are in the League? As long as R'as has lived, he still wouldn't be able to devote a whole month to breaking in each member.

They use things such as brainwashing as and when it suits them. They need Maseo to help them escape so he's not that brainwashed. But they want Oliver to kill his friends without hesitation so he's heavily brainwashed, likely to be easily overcome by Felicity delivering a love monlogue in a future episode.

Maseo's been doing **** behind R'as Al Ghul's back the entire season. He's not as brainwashed as Oliver is.

 

[Matt]

I'm not convinced Oliver's even remotely brainwashed. This is just a coy to out smart ras, get trained by ras, and then be able to beat him. He would have slaughtered diggle in a sword fight, and he chose not too, he also would have to play this incredibly close to the chest with my only guess is that Malcolm knows.

Agreed. My guess is Oliver has known about the Omega for some time (probably through Merlyn) and this whole brainwashing is a gambit to recover the Omega from the League and destroy it once and for all.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Please. We all know that Oliver has truly gone to the dark side but will eventually come to his senses once Ray Palmer shows up, armed with a big 'ol smile and his Home Depot Iron Man suit, and teaches Oliver all about being super-happy despite seeing a loved one murdered right in front of you.

 

[Crossvale]

4/10

For Nyssa, Laurel and baby Sara (MVPs).

 

[fire117]

That Canary Cry made me laugh. She just looked so ridiculous.

Agreed.

 

[chamber-music]

I'm not convinced Oliver's even remotely brainwashed. This is just a coy to out smart ras, get trained by ras, and then be able to beat him. He would have slaughtered diggle in a sword fight, and he chose not too, he also would have to play this incredibly close to the chest with my only guess is that Malcolm knows.

I really hope that is the direction they are going. Oliver isn't the smartest guy around but they have shown him to be cunning, resourceful and a good strategist sometimes.

Having Oliver play along with Ras so that he can eventually destroy the League from the inside would add to the traits I mentioned.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

I LOVED Felicity...But now shes getting on MY LAST FN NERVE..SHUT UP Felicity

agreed! damn i use to love seeing chick each week now she is working my last nerve!the show has managed to destroy such a great character. if they had kept her as the quirky Intell girl with a school girl crush on Ollie would have been cool with me!...but really getting all caught in that soap opera bull&*(has destroyed her for me!

 

[SpideyVille]

Agreed. My guess is Oliver has known about the Omega for some time (probably through Merlyn) and this whole brainwashing is a gambit to recover the Omega from the League and destroy it once and for all.

I kinda wouldn't be surprised if Maseo is still working with Walker to recover it. After all, Ra's seemed to know all about ARGUS as well.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

Of course someone really needs to watch Temple of Doom to see how to wake Ollie up!

Or Avengers. "Cognitive recalibration"–Laurel is going to hit him really hard in the head. t:

 

[Loki882]

I swear, haven't seen Oliver this badass since season 2. As far as people saying Nyssa looked amateurish, I guess that's what happens when you start living a more peaceful life, you just lose that edge, regardless if you have 30 yrs more training on Oliver, who at that moment, was still fresh off training with his mind sharpened with a killer instinct up until their fight.

Somehow with the reveal of the Alpha Omega virus, I can't help but think now that Oliver has something up his sleeve, and this whole brain wash thing is just a ruse/charade. Although I think it WOULD be too much to ask if they made him pull a Bruce Wayne during Batman RIP when [BLACKOUT]after Bruce's mind get's psychologically messed up, he had a trigger word programmed in himself to bring forth a backup personality in the form of Batman of Zur En Arrh.[/BLACKOUT] Maybe Oliver did the same (highly doubt it) and just need's a code word to bring that forward.

Also, I find the whole brainwashing aspect of becoming the heir kind of pointless. The whole idea of picking Oliver as the heir was because of his force of will, which comes with who Oliver is. If you just brainwash him, doesn't that essentially erase his personality, the very thing that makes him the person that has that willpower to deserve being the heir? Or maybe the brainwash is just the beginning stages, and throughout time, his old personality will leak back out and merge with the new one, forming a twisted version of Oliver, instead of this robot killing machine we got, since both Maseo and Merlyn seem to still resemble themselves, but more twisted.

Except the problem is that Oliver has not only beaten Nyssa EVERYTIME that they've fought, he's EASILY beaten her. Even last season, when she was firmly in LOA-mode, and earlier this season when she was in "kill Merlyn" mode. It didn't work for then and it doesn't work now. It really undercuts Nyssa's character, and they keep doing it.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Agreed, this section has sadly become toxic.

Yep, I'm gonna go enjoy the show somewhere other than this section of the forums, where half the members haven't already made up their minds that they'll hate an episode if Felicity has any lines in it.

 

[zenith16]

I liked the episode. Hasn't been as good as last season but I've been enjoying it. Not sure why everyone hates it so much

not every one I said I like what went down with the women even though I feel they're ignoring the side effect's of the pit should have on thea be side which I feel if they do that they 'll ever truly address i ay other time after this event with Oliver let be swept under a rug. other the that I enjoy how the ladys performed .

there the thing with diggle about there being line you don't cross the warrior's code of honor that part I agree with to a certain point but their assassin's also sadly even though it was Oliver doing this in the I'll go after your family to make you suffer.

it could have easily bee brick or any of of the none discript villain' noticed Diggle run's around with the arrow they they left alive to head prison which by the way is fine only if your more care with life /identity ,so your family safe.

that part the writer refuse even explore. their criminals & mobsters & those people have no honor they will go after your family, if it suit them they don't fallow such rules which why Diggle should mask ( do't want him to john stuart be some original ) more effort they Don't notice his face when he takes them on.

This time it was Oliver but I hope this is further addressed with some else that really has no honor at all with him from criminal's they fight stuff that shouldn't skip around or should be a addressed are skipped a lot with this show with these writers & I'm not sure I like it. especially after make bi deal with like the video tape of thea killing sara or the consequence's of the pit how it'll effect her for like which some how I'm sure they drop it which will be lame of them after making such a conversation .


Ihey aren't exploring plots to their fullest & you should never , ever do that. Especially After you introduce it as a plot .

if you introduce them other wise don't bother in the first place if you plan to never ever fully explore them .

there' still stuff to ejoy with the show but the show can still be better we know it's capable of it but they are focusing the wrong things & it's kinda taking to place's where it can't reach it's true greatness.

cause they poorly made chose's & focuses not to do so. I want this show to cotinue to do well . but I can't always do the blind eye thing for it. it won't improve if I do that as long their on & other shows have a better out look have better rewards cause of it cause the writing is better with their's which are this shows competition.

 

[Slade W]

Except the problem is that Oliver has not only beaten Nyssa EVERYTIME that they've fought, he's EASILY beaten her. Even last season, when she was firmly in LOA-mode, and earlier this season when she was in "kill Merlyn" mode. It didn't work for then and it doesn't work now. It really undercuts Nyssa's character, and they keep doing it.

Oliver did not beat Nyssa in the episode "The Magician" if that is what you are referring too when you say "kill Merlyn mode".

 

[Rowsdower!]

Agreed.

Can someone make a gif like this of Laurel screaming? I want to watch it over and over again and laugh my ass off.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Laurel looked badass doing her Canary Cry, the Canary Cry was just made weak for some reason.