Arrow Arrow Season 5 Episode 15: "Fighting Fire with Fire"

[Lencho01]

Aw, now I gotta start caring about Prometheus. As soon as Vigilante was going after Oliver, I knew they were going to reveal Chase as Prometheus unless they just wanted it to not make any sort of sense/make his look more crazy. Felt bad for Curtis but it was obvious that was what was going to happen. I was sitting there thinking all the gunfire and explosions were going to interrupt Oliver's oddly-times press conference/location.

 

[ZIPBAGS]

Funny thing was the restaurant Curtis met his husband was the redressed CC Jitters set.

 

[raisethe3]

Adrian Chase should've been the Vigilante, since he got Diggle out. Now I am puzzled by his motivation.

 

[Deltron3030]

Adrian Chase should've been the Vigilante, since he got Diggle out. Now I am puzzled by his motivation.

Serious plot hole

 

[Jedi Arrow]

Serious plot hole

Not necessarily. Freeing Diggle gains Oliver's trust and twists the knife even more when he betrays him. Would Diggle being arrested have hurt Oliver? Sure, but they would've found a way to rescue him again. Then that pain would be gone. This is a lasting pain. Someone who took a pretty serious risk to help one of Oliver's friends I'd someone who Oliver will trust, or at least begin to trust.

That's what hurt Oliver more; someone he trusts turning against him so completely as to become an arch-enemy. When was the last time that happened, besides Evelyn, because she's part of Prometheus' plot? Rochev? I'm not even sure he trusted her fully. Maybe Slade. Honestly, there are a lot of similarities between Prometheus and Slade, this being a big one.

 

[Batmannerism]

Interesting twist. Its possible that they are saving up for another twist where Adrian Chase isn't actually Adrian Chase - ( who was the original Vigilante in the comics) or perhaps it will turn out to be Dorian Chase, his brother ( and the guy who claims to be Adrian Chase is an impostor).

No matter how it works out, I think it was a pretty decent twist overall - sure some saw it coming, but very few twists (especially in superhero stories) are completely unpredictable.

I thought Ollie's explanation for the Green Arrow's behaviour was silly and kind of unnecessary. This episode overall was a couple of levels down from last week's, although I did like that the side-kick army were in good form (Diggle, Mr Terrific and Wild Dog) they're starting to grow on me.

I kind of wonder how the flashback bratva story and main storyline will merge , as is usually the case in Arrow (other than their recent trip to Russia). I haven't really cared a lot for the Bratva story, mostly because I feel like the basic idea of Ollie joining the Russian mob is pretty ridiculous, even more ridiculous than the idea of fighting crime with a bow and arrow.

All in all this season is okay, I do like the main and supporting cast though.
to be honest, I kind of wish the CW shows were only 13 episodes so there was more quality story and less filler.

 

[Slade W]

Adrian Chase should've been the Vigilante, since he got Diggle out. Now I am puzzled by his motivation.

It is early days so it is hard to say for sure, but I guess he feels he can hurt Oliver more by being someone he trusts. Prometheus can capture or kill Diggle anytime he wants to, so him saving Diggle isn't really a big loss to him. You also have to remember that he cannot be 100% sure how Oliver will react to each trap he sets, so by earning his trust and being close to Oliver, he ensures he is still in a good position if Oliver overcomes the obstacles he sets, and that would allow him to readjust his future plans. It was him who told Oliver that he had to throw someone under the bus, to stay on as mayor, and Oliver made the Green Arrow out to be a villain, which is what Prometheus wanted. Being close to Oliver covered his own ass, as it made it less likely Oliver would allow him to resign and take the blame for Malone's death being covered up, increasing the chances of Oliver blaming the Green Arrow.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

I do like the idea of Vigilante being Dorian Chase. Maybe that's why he sounds like Adrian; perhaps in the Arrowverse, Adrian and Dorian are twins. Thus they introduce Adrian and we think "Oh, Vigilante." But actually, it's the perfect opportunity for them to pull a reversal, and still stick to the comics since Dorian was the Vigilante in the comics, as well.

 

[Batmannerism]

I do like the idea of Vigilante being Dorian Chase. Maybe that's why he sounds like Adrian; perhaps in the Arrowverse, Adrian and Dorian are twins. Thus they introduce Adrian and we think "Oh, Vigilante." But actually, it's the perfect opportunity for them to pull a reversal, and still stick to the comics since Dorian was the Vigilante in the comics, as well.

Yeah, that's the kind of twist that would make sense - either that or vigilante is the real Adrian Chase and Prometheus is an impostor Adrian Chase - but Prometheus being Adrian Chase and vigilante being Dorian would work too.

Really, what makes a twist work is the reveal - more than the buildup. M Night Shyamalan used to be the ultimate master of that.

I'll keep up with Arrow to see how it turns out.. Cheers.

 

[Gallops]

I definitely feel like there's another twist coming.

I feel like one of the following will happen:

1. Adrian Chase isn't really Adrian Chase. It's someone else, even Jason Clayborne's son. He could have assumed Adrian Chase's identity and said if he showed his face in Star City he'd kill him, or his family or whatever. When Chase heard that he was in Star City (even though it's really Clayborne) he came back as Vigilante to keep an eye on the city. He just ended up getting tangled up with Green Arrow as a result.

2. Dorian Chase is Vigilante and is Adrian Chase's twin.

3. Vigilante is someone completely different.

4. Adrian Chase is Vigilante and Dorian Chase is Prometheus. Again, they are twins and Dorian is just Prometheus and Adrian really is Vigilante and the DA we see working with Oliver.

Personally, I can see the first or fourth be what happens. I'm happy they didn't make the reveal too obvious and that they also didn't make it someone random we haven't seen before.

 

[Gallops]

It is early days so it is hard to say for sure, but I guess he feels he can hurt Oliver more by being someone he trusts. Prometheus can capture or kill Diggle anytime he wants to, so him saving Diggle isn't really a big loss to him. You also have to remember that he cannot be 100% sure how Oliver will react to each trap he sets, so by earning his trust and being close to Oliver, he ensures he is still in a good position if Oliver overcomes the obstacles he sets, and that would allow him to readjust his future plans. It was him who told Oliver that he had to throw someone under the bus, to stay on as mayor, and Oliver made the Green Arrow out to be a villain, which is what Prometheus wanted. Being close to Oliver covered his own ass, as it made it less likely Oliver would allow him to resign and take the blame for Malone's death being covered up, increasing the chances of Oliver blaming the Green Arrow.

And therefore making the Green Arrow public enemy #1. It would mean that this is personal, as he wants the Green Arrow to be hated by Star City before he kills him.

Only thing I want to know is what the motive is. If it was against Oliver Queen, we need to know when Chase knew Oliver was the Green Arrow. Did he know before he came to Star City? They made it seem like he didn't find out until a little later, which was after Prometheus targeted the Green Arrow.

 

[Slade W]

And therefore making the Green Arrow public enemy #1. It would mean that this is personal, as he wants the Green Arrow to be hated by Star City before he kills him.

Only thing I want to know is what the motive is. If it was against Oliver Queen, we need to know when Chase knew Oliver was the Green Arrow. Did he know before he came to Star City? They made it seem like he didn't find out until a little later, which was after Prometheus targeted the Green Arrow.

What makes you say this?

 

[Gallops]

What makes you say this?

At first his target was only Green Arrow. Then after Church told him who Green Arrow was, he started targeting Oliver.

I mean, I could be wrong with that. He definitely could have known all along that Oliver was Green Arrow.

 

[Slade W]

At first his target was only Green Arrow. Then after Church told him who Green Arrow was, he started targeting Oliver.

I mean, I could be wrong with that. He definitely could have known all along that Oliver was Green Arrow.

I think he already knew. There was no real reaction from him when Tobias told him, so it is hard to say he was surprised to hear it was Oliver. What makes me think he already knew was him going after Tobias and killing him after Tobias had his assassin target Oliver as the mayor. Prior to that, he gave Tobias his final warning regarding staying away from the Green Arrow, and targeting the mayor seemed to have been Tobias' third strike.

 

[Dark Raven]

So that was a bit of a surprise. I was expecting Chase to be Vigilante, not Prometheus.

How is the Green Arrow going to get out of being a murder suspect this time? Maybe, like the "Arrow" before him, he'll "die" and be replaced by a new archer vigilante with a different colour. Oliver better start finding a new colour for his costume.

But if they don't take that route (because it's been done before and would stretch credibility for anyone in Star City to believe that again), what if Billy Malone is actually not dead but working with Prometheus all along? That would exonerate Green Arrow, because he hasn't killed anyone at all. And if he was Prometheus part of the time, it could explain how Chase might seem to be in two places at once (although I can't remember if we ever saw him when we saw Prometheus).

Wasn't Chase the one who ordered the cover up of Billy's death and Oliver merely approved it? So in fact, Chase might be the one who has also managed to arrange for a fake death report.

And if Billy isn't dead, maybe he's Vigilante. When did Vigilante first appear this season?

If Billy turns out to be Adrian's brother, then maybe they have a vendetta against each other if they're not in league with each other. Or maybe Billy now has a vendetta against him because Adrian tried to have him killed by GA.

The only other way for Green Arrow to be exonerated is to somehow prove that Prometheus was behind the murder and tricked Oliver. But how would anyone prove that? Were there any security cameras anywhere? Maybe they'll make it that Felicity is now so good at hacking that she can hack security footage where there was none and where cameras didn't even exist.

 

[Slade W]

So that was a bit of a surprise. I was expecting Chase to be Vigilante, not Prometheus.

How is the Green Arrow going to get out of being a murder suspect this time? Maybe, like the "Arrow" before him, he'll "die" and be replaced by a new archer vigilante with a different colour. Oliver better start finding a new colour for his costume.

But if they don't take that route (because it's been done before and would stretch credibility for anyone in Star City to believe that again), what if Billy Malone is actually not dead but working with Prometheus all along? That would exonerate Green Arrow, because he hasn't killed anyone at all. And if he was Prometheus part of the time, it could explain how Chase might seem to be in two places at once (although I can't remember if we ever saw him when we saw Prometheus).

Wasn't Chase the one who ordered the cover up of Billy's death and Oliver merely approved it? So in fact, Chase might be the one who has also managed to arrange for a fake death report.

And if Billy isn't dead, maybe he's Vigilante. When did Vigilante first appear this season?

If Billy turns out to be Adrian's brother, then maybe they have a vendetta against each other if they're not in league with each other. Or maybe Billy now has a vendetta against him because Adrian tried to have him killed by GA.

The only other way for Green Arrow to be exonerated is to somehow prove that Prometheus was behind the murder and tricked Oliver. But how would anyone prove that? Were there any security cameras anywhere? Maybe they'll make it that Felicity is now so good at hacking that she can hack security footage where there was none and where cameras didn't even exist.

Episode 7, which was called "Vigilante".

 

[Dark Raven]

Episode 7, which was called "Vigilante".

I meant did he appear after Billy's death or before. I can't remember the sequence of events now.

 

[Slade W]

I meant did he appear after Billy's death or before. I can't remember the sequence of events now.

He appeared before Billy's death. Billy's death was in episode 9.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Adrian Chase should've been the Vigilante, since he got Diggle out. Now I am puzzled by his motivation.

Serious plot hole

Not a plot hole - a red herring.

And it fits because Prometheus has made it very clear that HE was going to take Oliver's life apart. He'll want Diggle there so HE can take him from Oliver, not some general.

The team's confrontation with Vigilante ended very messily.

Curtis knocked him down but made no attempt to capture him, instead running to Wild Dog and no mention was made at all of Vigilante who I assume had somehow managed to escape.

 

[Mask&Cape]

So that was a bit of a surprise. I was expecting Chase to be Vigilante, not Prometheus.

How is the Green Arrow going to get out of being a murder suspect this time? Maybe, like the "Arrow" before him, he'll "die" and be replaced by a new archer vigilante with a different colour. Oliver better start finding a new colour for his costume.

But if they don't take that route (because it's been done before and would stretch credibility for anyone in Star City to believe that again), what if Billy Malone is actually not dead but working with Prometheus all along? That would exonerate Green Arrow, because he hasn't killed anyone at all. And if he was Prometheus part of the time, it could explain how Chase might seem to be in two places at once (although I can't remember if we ever saw him when we saw Prometheus).

Wasn't Chase the one who ordered the cover up of Billy's death and Oliver merely approved it? So in fact, Chase might be the one who has also managed to arrange for a fake death report.

And if Billy isn't dead, maybe he's Vigilante. When did Vigilante first appear this season?

If Billy turns out to be Adrian's brother, then maybe they have a vendetta against each other if they're not in league with each other. Or maybe Billy now has a vendetta against him because Adrian tried to have him killed by GA.

The only other way for Green Arrow to be exonerated is to somehow prove that Prometheus was behind the murder and tricked Oliver. But how would anyone prove that? Were there any security cameras anywhere? Maybe they'll make it that Felicity is now so good at hacking that she can hack security footage where there was none and where cameras didn't even exist.

I was surprised too. Every expression and move of the camera seemed to be making it obvious that he was Vigilante - so obvious that I bought it must be a red herring and he was just the DA.

I don't see how Malone could be Vigilante - it would fit with him being so eager to work with Green Arrow - but how would he fool everyone who saw him after his death. To say nothing of Oliver himself, who was the one who pronounced him dead. Some drug or training? Resurrection? Been done plenty on the show and some dead characters need to stay dead in the Arrowverse.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Interesting the way the twist worked out, thought if anyone Chase was going to be Vigilante, be interesting who Vigilante is now.