Arrow Arrow Season 5 Episode 17: "Kapiushon"

[General Mike]

Well that was something else. I'm not sure what the point of Prometheus' game is at this point though. I'm not sure what the point of this season is.

 

[rashad]

Arrow has been on fire this season. Damn.

 

[raisethe3]

Pretty intense episode. But why/how is Oliver freed at the end?

 

[LoganGambit87]

probably one of the shows best episodes

 

[General Mike]

Pretty intense episode. But why/how is Oliver freed at the end?

Chase said he would let him go if he admitted his "secret".

 

[Gu3ree]

I enjoyed this flashback-centric episode tonight. I thought Evelyn was just a set-up, then later I thought, oh, well maybe not, then later it was like, oh, it was fake, she didn't die.

But if she is Artemis though, I thought the writers said she would be coming back with a twist. By that, I was expecting that she had been using Prometheus.

I want to see how Oliver goes back to the island. I can dig his hair growing out this time, and his beard like we saw him at the beginning of the pilot episode.

I have mixed feelings about this Oliver is a monster stuff. I think in season 4, they took it too far.

Sure Oliver might have a monster within him, or at least in the TV series version, but I hate that in season 4, they just have to utilize that and make the Green Arrow character out to be a monster on the whole, and in this episode. If they make him too much of a monster then what's the point?

They've made him too dark in these flashbacks to the point where he's darker than Batman. Psychotic and...just psychotic. It's just really not Green Arrow to me.

 

[Slade W]

That was a very good episode and those were the best flashbacks in a good while. I don't really understand what Kovar is saying a lot of the time. It was cool seeing Malcolm involved in the flashbacks, as he the big villain Oliver goes up against after Kovar.

 

[shabadoo25]

I'm not sure where they are going with all of this after tonight's ep. The length and breadth of the flashback stories are getting ludicrous, including the skinning a dude alive last night.

I still have a hunch that the final ep this year will be Oliver revealing himself to the world as the GA in a press conference.

 

[KnightErrant]

Certainly the flashback dominance was not so bad as it was well paced and expanded on Oliver's Bratva history but Prometheus is a little 2 dimensional when you have some of the shadowing of what Kovar and Anatoly are telling flashback Oliver being said by Prometheus and then still only "you killed my Dad" as his whole premise for being the Baddie he is.

Sure Oliver has killed,the Hood did in S1,Oliver did on the Island and for ARGUS etc etc

Just lacks that element like Slade Wilson had where we knew his story and now it's getting later and later into the season where the mystery is really kind of defunct with Prom/Adrian outed.

 

[Slade W]

Certainly the flashback dominance was not so bad as it was well paced and expanded on Oliver's Bratva history but Prometheus is a little 2 dimensional when you have some of the shadowing of what Kovar and Anatoly are telling flashback Oliver being said by Prometheus and then still only "you killed my Dad" as his whole premise for being the Baddie he is.

Sure Oliver has killed,the Hood did in S1,Oliver did on the Island and for ARGUS etc etc

Just lacks that element like Slade Wilson had where we knew his story and now it's getting later and later into the season where the mystery is really kind of defunct with Prom/Adrian outed.

My feeling is that in addition to wanting revenge for his father, he hates that Oliver is loved and viewed as a hero by so many people, despite killing a lot of people and he wants to destroy his legacy and make people view him as a villain or "monster", which is the word they like to use.

 

[chamber-music]

Green Arrow has killed in the comics but usually as either a last resort or if the villain has killed or hurt one of his loved ones.

This version of Green Arrow is more like a serial killer. I find it hard to find him likable sometimes.

Oliver is a dark, dark character, dude straight flayed a guy for practice. Even the Punisher believes in the mercy of a quick death. This dude is like Dexter in his desire to kill.

Funny you mention the Punisher because the Max series by Jason Aaron also had the whole "the death of your loved ones is a an excuse for you to go on a killing spree" revelation.

 

[KnightErrant]

My feeling is that in addition to wanting revenge for his father, he hates that Oliver is loved and viewed as a hero by so many people, despite killing a lot of people and he wants to destroy his legacy and make people view him as a villain or "monster", which is the word they like to use.

Yeah,that does make sense in some of the last episodes dialogues where he's talking about admitting his secret as a confession - then listing to whom he does not confess it to and it's all the Arrow team.

 

[Pennywise]

Is it too soon to say Chase/Prometheus is one of of the best villains on Arrow so far? I really love Josh's performance!

 

[Grommers]

Amazing episode so far

 

[Slade W]

Is it too soon to say Chase/Prometheus is one of of the best villains on Arrow so far? I really love Josh's performance!

Not IMO.

 

[KnightErrant]

Is it too soon to say Chase/Prometheus is one of of the best villains on Arrow so far? I really love Josh's performance!

He is good indeed,I like how he's sort of like unhinged but not quite enough to actually goof up his plans (so far)

 

[Slade W]

The last four episodes have been great. The last time we got that type of consistency was back in season 2.

 

[Gallops]

So at first I thought Gregor was Chase's dad. Maybe it's really Kovar?

The ties to Russia I feel will have a lot more impact in present day than we may think. I think the Claybourne idea from earlier in the season is a red herring of sorts.

I feel like with the Bratva coming in to help Oliver, we will see Kovar return in a bad way.

 

[AvatarWan]

New member, here!

Okay, this was a wonderful episode but I'm a little worried about where exactly they're going with Oliver's character at this point. Even though it was a revelation for Oliver, it's not like any long-term Arrowverse fan couldn't have figured out that Oliver actually enjoyed killing; that's part of the reason why he wanted to stop.

I mean, I get people missed the days when Oliver was a killing machine (I didn't) but there's only so much darkness the show can explore before Oliver Queen is just not a hero anymore. Heck, Bratva!Oliver was downright psychotic in this episode.

 

[KnightErrant]

Speaking of Kovar,what did Malcolm Merlyn do to bring him back to life?

Some stolen vial of the Lazarus pit water or some other mystical process?

Why Kovar's body would be in the hands of his own people is a bit odd given he was surrounded by Bratva but maybe Bratva loyal to Kovar got him away from Oliver and Anatoly?

New member, here!

Welcome to the Hype!

 

[Jedi Arrow]

My feeling is that in addition to wanting revenge for his father, he hates that Oliver is loved and viewed as a hero by so many people, despite killing a lot of people and he wants to destroy his legacy and make people view him as a villain or "monster", which is the word they like to use.

Good thought. I'm still not sure who I think Chase's actual father is: Claybourne, Kovar, or Gregor. At least it's not a dead girlfriend/wife this time (Merlyn, Slade, and Darhk). But I do think it's probable that Chase thinks Oliver is a monster and hates that he's seen as a hero. It just remains to be seen if they'll bring that out or not.

We've got, what, six episodes left now? Six episodes is still plenty of time to develop a character's motivation?

 

[Slade W]

Good thought. I'm still not sure who I think Chase's actual father is: Claybourne, Kovar, or Gregor. At least it's not a dead girlfriend/wife this time (Merlyn, Slade, and Darhk). But I do think it's probable that Chase thinks Oliver is a monster and hates that he's seen as a hero. It just remains to be seen if they'll bring that out or not.

We've got, what, six episodes left now? Six episodes is still plenty of time to develop a character's motivation?

It seems it was Claybourne. He even spoke about his death at the start of the episode, and how he suffered,

 

[shabadoo25]

It seems it was Claybourne. He even spoke about his death at the start of the episode, and how he suffered,

I still think it's a swerve.

 

[Slade W]

I still think it's a swerve.

That is certainly possible. With Prometheus, you cannot rule out that what he is saying is just to manipulate and/or torture Oliver.

 

[Gallops]

It seems it was Claybourne. He even spoke about his death at the start of the episode, and how he suffered,

Chase still hasn't mentioned his father's name though. He said how his father suffered, but we saw 2 people in the past 2 episodes essentially die the same way. Gregor appeared to have suffered until his final breath and even Kovar was stabbed where Chase implied (said something about the aorta which runs from the heart down the midsection, though it's deep).

I feel like the Claybourne mention was to throw us off.