Comics Astonishing X-Men #14 preview

[Boba_Fett_123]

I find this sort of thinking very, very bizarre. We've got guns and explosions and decapitations and eyes getting ripped out and missing limbs and throats getting slit and people getting flayed and etc etc etc in every corner of both Marvel and DC...but when it comes showing to a loving young couple, all if a sudden it's too graphic for the kiddies?

I mean, come on, that's just backwards.

If our young, impressionable youth can handle Wing's mangled corpse getting up and killing people in the last arc, then they can handle some PG-13 humor.

QFT.

 

[Optic Rage]

I find this sort of thinking very, very bizarre. We've got guns and explosions and decapitations and eyes getting ripped out and missing limbs and throats getting slit and people getting flayed and etc etc etc in every corner of both Marvel and DC...but when it comes showing to a loving young couple, all if a sudden it's too graphic for the kiddies?

I mean, come on, that's just backwards.

If our young, impressionable youth can handle Wing's mangled corpse getting up and killing people in the last arc, then they can handle some PG-13 humor.

I agree.

Kids are not as sheltered as they used to be.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Kids are more prone to repeat what they see sexually than physically. It's more appealing to have sex with a girl than to rip someone's eyeball out. But that's just my opinion.

 

[The Batman]

This ish was pretty good...but now we need to see some action.

And Scott really needs his balls back. The last time he was written correctly was...i cant even remember.

 

[axex]

Anyone know where I can read a full review? I don't have access to these in my town.

 

[BrianWilly]

Kids are more prone to repeat what they see sexually than physically. It's more appealing to have sex with a girl than to rip someone's eyeball out. But that's just my opinion.

I've heard a lot of instances of kids repeating the violence that they see in video games and comic books and movies -- news reports of kids taking after Grand Theft Auto, for example, or DOOM, or even the Power Rangers -- but I've never heard of anyone having more sex because they read about it in a comic book or saw it in a movie. Well, not with other people at least.

In any case, don't you find that hypocritical? That consensual sex between two adults makes us more uncomfortable than murder and torture? It's just mind-boggling to me that of all the objectionable things you'd find in comic books, this just happens to be the one that has to be brought up.

 

[JewishHobbit]

There's a lot of other things that can be objectionable, but the thing is... violence... it's what comic books are made of, it's to be expected. Punching people and blowing things up... it's to be expected out of a comic book. I can go to any shelf with my kids and I know that'll be in there. If I don't want them to see the bad violence, I'll keep them to the main books like Spiderman or X-Men. If I feel they're mature enough to read the harder core books, I'll let them read them. But Sex isn't a comic book theme and has no purpose in the book. It isn't necessary to tell a love story. If they want to throw it in a mature book, or something that's fine, that's what they're there for, but Astonishing X-Men is a family book. We can expect action, fighting, love stories, all that's fine... but the questionable things should be left out. If I saw Wolverine lobbing someone's head off, gore and all, I'd be saying the same things. There's things that I find acceptable in a family comic (typical X-Men/Spidey/Avengers), and things that are acceptable in a more mature comic (Marvel Knights, MAX). Small suttle jokes about sex don't bother me, but this was very blatant that they were having sex and she fazed during orgasm. That has no place in a main X-Men book. You can disagree if you want, it's your right, but my stance won't change. I just hate having to be careful what comics on my shelf I can allow my little nieces and nephews to read, especially when it's the main books that are suppose to be family friendly.

 

[BrianWilly]

But that kind of laissez-faire attitude of violence and puritanical fear of sex is exactly what confuses me. If the children in question are mature enough to view realistic violence, I don't see what makes sex all of a sudden taboo, especially when it's depicted as innocently as it was in this instance, and even more especially when violence in entertainment has statistically been shown to be the more dangerous of the two. The sort of violence that occurs daily in comic books would never appear, for instance, in any Fox Kids or Nickelodeon programming. Neither would the sex, of course, but at least they're being censored equivocally.

In the meantime, I'm not so sure I'd agree that Astonishing X-Men is a family book at all in the first place. Wolverine swears all the time; oh, sure it's censored but it's not exactly subtle. And I'm reasonably certain that Joss is not writing for with family-level read in mind.

Incidentally, Spider-Man's eye got ripped out in a major storyline very recently; that's where I got that example.

 

[Manic]

So let me get this straight...

Cyclops uses the B-word, thinks he stabs Emma through the chest, and his infidelity to his wife is brought up several times...

But a young couple making love (which we didn't even see) crossed the line?

 

[rjb182]

Regarding the sex/violence thing...

I think one point worth making is that violence is pretty easy to explain to a child... I mean, most of humanity can agree on the vague idea that Violence is Bad (and the situations where it might not be bad are rare enough that they can be covered separately). Furthermore, while some heroes can be violent, they're generally shown to be working *toward* peace... in other words, it takes a particularly sick and twisted work of fiction to literally make violence into a GOOD thing, and that kind of thing, most parents would probably discourage anyway.

Sex, on the other hand, is much more complicated, and every set of parents will have their own ideas about it. I think it's reasonable for them to want the chance to impart those ideas to their children in their own way, without having them get mixed signals from outside before they (the kids) are ready.

In other words, it's not that sex is worse than violence. It's just that the discussion about it has to be framed more carefully...

(That said, I didn't personally mind the scene in #14... I thought it was more or less tasteful and not past the line they've established before...)

 

[FairuzaAzure]

Ooh, this looks co (sees the cover) OH GOD WHY!?!? BRAIN BLEACH! I NEED BRAIN BLEACH!!!!!

 

[Infinity9999x]

I've heard a lot of instances of kids repeating the violence that they see in video games and comic books and movies -- news reports of kids taking after Grand Theft Auto, for example, or DOOM, or even the Power Rangers -- but I've never heard of anyone having more sex because they read about it in a comic book or saw it in a movie. Well, not with other people at least.

In any case, don't you find that hypocritical? That consensual sex between two adults makes us more uncomfortable than murder and torture? It's just mind-boggling to me that of all the objectionable things you'd find in comic books, this just happens to be the one that has to be brought up.

The thing with kids, being one myself, we're pretty much the same as everyone else. Comics, guns, videogames, these DO NOT kill people, people kill people. If they kill someone the same way they see in a video game, it's not the video games fault, that kid was probably going to kill someone anyways.

 

[Vortexian]

Its kinda funny, if sexuality is represented in a responsible manner then what would the problem be? A female character waiting til she's old enough, sticking with her guy, and doing it for love and not power. Making the "hard decisions" about sex that youth are making, and not doing the unending chain of guys thing that's become so commin in real life...
If properly written two characters having sex could be done *very* tastefully and in a way that communicates that youngsters should A) wait til they're old enough, B) Be aware of the seriousness of young physical love, C) be aware of the dangers, D) be aware of the manipulations that sex can lead to, and E) show that it's not all wine and roses.
The aversion in North American society towords sex even in the AA-R rated areas of the media is quite perplexing. Violence will thin the population, people die, and its OK to show that... Two characters who are totally in love, responsible, and most importantly illustrating a prat fall of EVERYDAY LIFE should be able to be seen... I mean without sex none of us would be hre. The out of sight attitude has IMHO led to a strange change in young peoples sexual behaviors.
Britney Spears or Christina acting like a sexed up bint in junior HS clothes is ok for 12 year old girls, but two characters in the X-Men cant be sexual... Eventhough comics readers are generally the ones with higher marks. Britney and Christina aren't a bad people irl, they;re a performer doing a job... For the most part otehrs write thier songs. She doesn't always like her job, but the truckload of money and all.
Still, The pics of evicerated people on the covers might tell parents that this isn't Archie. As well as the name Joss Whedon, Buffy wasn't exactly a "happy" show.

 

[BrianWilly]

The thing with kids, being one myself, we're pretty much the same as everyone else. Comics, guns, videogames, these DO NOT kill people, people kill people. If they kill someone the same way they see in a video game, it's not the video games fault, that kid was probably going to kill someone anyways.

I completely agree. I don't think violence in entertainment inherently influence people to be violent, I think that a person has to be violent in the first place to be influenced by something like that. A big problem with saying that Grand Theft Auto causes people to commit crimes, for example, is that no one takes into account the thousands upon thousands of people who have played GTA and have not commited any crimes.

However, for the purposes of this specific discussion, it was pointed out that kids are more prone to mimic sexual acts than they are prone to mimic violent ones, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case; just going by what we see in the news and everyday life, violent acts in entertainment have been emulated and absorbed by people far, far more often than any sexual acts have been.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

I agree completely. Scott says the f-word (censored, though) and the b-word (uncensored, though it was censored in Morrison's far more content-objectionable run). He tries to stab Emma, who by the way is completely destroying any shred of self-esteem he has left. Kitty falls through the ceiling, covers herself, and runs back upstairs. They don't even kiss, for Christ's sake! Everything's implied, and in any event, is Astonishing X-Men intended for young kid's in the first place? Marvel's rated it T+, or whatever they're calling it now, and Whedon has NEVER been a kid-oriented kind of guy. I wouldn't let my (hypothetical) seven year old read AXM anyway, because honestly, how much would he get out of it? Would he get the subtexts of the cure, or of Scott and Emma's affair? NO! It's not written for him; I'll give him some back issues of X-Men Adventures, or let him watch the cartoons, and then, when he's older, he can watch the movies, and read the "grown-up comics".

It's not the content that's the problem; it's the parent's who let their kids watch/view it. So, while I disagree with parts of your argument, Hobbit, I do have to say that at least you're a parent who's doing the right thing and actually MONITORING what his kids are doing. Kudos.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

ok, was it just me that was shocked by the complete bastardisation of Cyclops that was achieved in just one issue??

Ive been a big fan of Cyclops for quite a while, I really loved him especially during Morrisons run. Now hes just been turned into some complete whiney cry baby. The struggle he has to control his optic blasts, and the danger that they could always represent to his team mates, the idea that he actually just chose not to control them just because he wantyed a greater sense of shock in his life is insulting. How did Professor X or Phoenix not pick up on it?

...and to make matters worse he punched Emma cos he was annoyed with her? Yeah he didnt have claws.. but he actually punched her!

The leadership issue with Cyclops... ProfX only chose him to be leader because he felt sorry for him? what a load of rubbish. when the team originally got together, Cyclops was by far the most powerful of the team. He could remain calm and collected during a fight, hes a natural strategist and has fantastic spatial awareness. The choice of him as leader for the team wasnt even questioned.

In one issue hes been turned from a complicated caring character, a quite confident leader and a visually distinct iconic hero.... into a pathetic unconfident, self pitying, generic energy firer, who beats up women andendangers the lives of everyone around him just because he doesnt want to learn to control his powers and wants something to feel sorry for himself about.

How is this good for his character?
if this isnt all in Cycs head and Emmas just trying to annoy him, this is surely a kick in the balls to any Cyclops fan.

 

[Optic Rage]

i think you misunderstood what Emma was trying to get at.

The things she said to Scott was not necessarily true or facts she gathered herself.....but she knew that they were the things he felt insecure about and deep down he believed them to be true.

IMO it makes Scott summers very human..something that hasnt been done to ANY of the x-men for a LONG time

While i agree that it is a low point for him...i have a feeling whendon is going to have him come back and kick some ass.

how many times were Buffy & Angel emotinaly crippled and weakend...and they allways came back with a vengance and owned the bad guys

i think he's doing the same thing here.

P.s oh and as for him stabing her..he knew it was all in his head so i doubt he really wanted to kill her.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

ok, was it just me that was shocked by the complete bastardisation of Cyclops that was achieved in just one issue??

Ive been a big fan of Cyclops for quite a while, I really loved him especially during Morrisons run. Now hes just been turned into some complete whiney cry baby. The struggle he has to control his optic blasts, and the danger that they could always represent to his team mates, the idea that he actually just chose not to control them just because he wantyed a greater sense of shock in his life is insulting. How did Professor X or Phoenix not pick up on it?

...and to make matters worse he punched Emma cos he was annoyed with her? Yeah he didnt have claws.. but he actually punched her!

The leadership issue with Cyclops... ProfX only chose him to be leader because he felt sorry for him? what a load of rubbish. when the team originally got together, Cyclops was by far the most powerful of the team. He could remain calm and collected during a fight, hes a natural strategist and has fantastic spatial awareness. The choice of him as leader for the team wasnt even questioned.

In one issue hes been turned from a complicated caring character, a quite confident leader and a visually distinct iconic hero.... into a pathetic unconfident, self pitying, generic energy firer, who beats up women andendangers the lives of everyone around him just because he doesnt want to learn to control his powers and wants something to feel sorry for himself about.

How is this good for his character?
if this isnt all in Cycs head and Emmas just trying to annoy him, this is surely a kick in the balls to any Cyclops fan.

See, the way I look at it, this issue is going to start getting Scott back on track. Look at what Emma's doing to Scott. She's verbally assaulting him, literally tearing him to shreds, bringing up every insecurity that's ever crossed his mind. Whether it's true or not is beyond the point; Scott feels that it is. He called her a "sick b.itch", and he means it. Scott's had enough of Emma and her dubious loyalties. I think what we're seeing her is the end of Scott/Emma, and I really think Scott is going to come back from this a much stronger character. Sometimes a character needs to be completely deconstructed in order to be fixed, and let's face it, Scott needs fixing. Morrison started it, but then he went away. Whedon's finishing the job, and spectacularly, IMO.

 

[Manic]

This reminds me of the end of season 5 of Buffy. Let me explain...

Buffy finds out that her little sister, Dawn, is the key to opening the portal between Earth and some Hell dimension. The bad guy, some hot-yet-powerful Hell-Goddess named Glory, wants to kidnap Dawn and go back home. At the end of the season, Glory actually snatches Dawn on Buffy's watch. At the end of that episode, Buffy goes into complete shock, becomes catatonic, and won't respond to anything around her; she just stares at everything blankly.

Willow, Buffy's magic-using best friend, decides it's time to venture into Buffy's mind. After being tossed from flashback to flashback, Willow sees all of Buffy's self-pity, and forces her to "get over it." This snaps Buffy out of her coma, and makes her a better leader in the final episode of season 5 than she's ever been.

It looks like Whedon is doing the same thing here... only I seriously doubt Cyclops is going to martyr himself at the end of this arc. Maybe Emma, though.

 

[Optic Rage]

I suppose it would be Beast that gets Scott to snap out of it[even tough he's worse then Scott for self pity at the moment]

Id love to see Kitty or logan do it.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

This reminds me of the end of season 5 of Buffy. Let me explain...

Buffy finds out that her little sister, Dawn, is the key to opening the portal between Earth and some Hell dimension. The bad guy, some hot-yet-powerful Hell-Goddess named Glory, wants to kidnap Dawn and go back home. At the end of the season, Glory actually snatches Dawn on Buffy's watch. At the end of that episode, Buffy goes into complete shock, becomes catatonic, and won't respond to anything around her; she just stares at everything blankly.

Willow, Buffy's magic-using best friend, decides it's time to venture into Buffy's mind. After being tossed from flashback to flashback, Willow sees all of Buffy's self-pity, and forces her to "get over it." This snaps Buffy out of her coma, and makes her a better leader in the final episode of season 5 than she's ever been.

It looks like Whedon is doing the same thing here... only I seriously doubt Cyclops is going to martyr himself at the end of this arc. Maybe Emma, though.

Wow, you're right. I definitely think we're seeing something on those lines.

 

[moonstar]

I suppose it would be Beast that gets Scott to snap out of it[even tough he's worse then Scott for self pity at the moment]

Id love to see Kitty or logan do it.

I think Logan should do it- I cant remember the issue (somewhere in the 200's of uncanny I think)
Logan and he have a heart to heart about life and rachel over a game of pool. Best issue ever.

Logan's always been able to psh his buttons-it should prove highly entertaining. Kudos to Emma for getting Scott to recognize his jealousy issues. Mayb it'll help him and Jean move on to a healthier relationship when she inevitably comes back.

I hope scott's Ok and comes thru this able to control his powers. I hope this ends the whole S&E thing I think he just wanted a kinkier version of Jean I don't think he was ever into Emma or Psylocke either for that matter.

As for the too much sex issue it says clearly on the cover that it's rated T+. I appreciate the adult tone of Joss' writing i don't think anyone's handeled their emational issues so frank since Claremont when he was on point. If that's not what you want your kids looking at there are like 10 other inferior xbooks out there..That Kitty/Peter thing was long over due as they abstained forever to do it.

P.S I want this storyline with Hellfire over because Cassandra nova is too weird purposeless and gets on my nerves.

 

[danielisthor]

There's a lot of other things that can be objectionable, but the thing is... violence... it's what comic books are made of, it's to be expected. Punching people and blowing things up... it's to be expected out of a comic book. I can go to any shelf with my kids and I know that'll be in there. If I don't want them to see the bad violence, I'll keep them to the main books like Spiderman or X-Men. If I feel they're mature enough to read the harder core books, I'll let them read them. But Sex isn't a comic book theme and has no purpose in the book. It isn't necessary to tell a love story. If they want to throw it in a mature book, or something that's fine, that's what they're there for, but Astonishing X-Men is a family book. We can expect action, fighting, love stories, all that's fine... but the questionable things should be left out. If I saw Wolverine lobbing someone's head off, gore and all, I'd be saying the same things. There's things that I find acceptable in a family comic (typical X-Men/Spidey/Avengers), and things that are acceptable in a more mature comic (Marvel Knights, MAX). Small suttle jokes about sex don't bother me, but this was very blatant that they were having sex and she fazed during orgasm. That has no place in a main X-Men book. You can disagree if you want, it's your right, but my stance won't change. I just hate having to be careful what comics on my shelf I can allow my little nieces and nephews to read, especially when it's the main books that are suppose to be family friendly.

It was my suggestion that she fazed during an orgasm. Not the book itself.


It is of my opinion that a company shouldn't have to censor itself from children, it is the moral obligation of the child's parents to do so.

 

[Manic]

Doesn't Marvel have a line of comics for kids, anyway? By far, most of their books are Teen rated, but they have Max for the adult stuff, and Age for kids, right?

 

[Specter313]

Doesn't Marvel have a line of comics for kids, anyway? By far, most of their books are Teen rated, but they have Max for the adult stuff, and Age for kids, right?

Yeah, the Marvel Adventures books are their kiddie line.