Comics AStonishing's Hellfire Club Discussion

[Valechan]

Let's start with the simple one. Teenage Negasonic Warhead, or whatever her name is... it's not too unplausible to think her mutant power is to make her dreams come true, after all, she dreamt all of Genosha was going to die and they did, now she seems to have dreamt herself back to life and well... she is alive.

Shaw... he recovered pretty quickly it seems... I have a strong feeling Whedon has no clue about the latest Hellfire Club storyline in Uncanny, which can certainly be a cause for headaches in future issues. Shaw says in 13 that the HC has turned into a glorified Strip joint... and that is no longer the case. It was so during Morrison's run, but Claremont fixed that stupid senseless story and brought back the Inner Circle... wonder if someone will point that out to him. Anyway, Shaw does have a reason to want to get back to the X-Men... but thse aren't the X-Men he should be mad at...

Cassandra... GODDESS!!! How can Cassandra Nova be there, in her old body, while Ernst is still in the mansion?? This is totally mind-boggling. I do like the fact that SHE was responsible for getting Emma to Genosha (that was never explained in the first place) and why she created herself such a weird secondary mutation (another unexplained mistake). But now?? What is she doing there?? And... wasn't Carter's imaginary friend Cassandra?? I mean, how many bodyless female entities live in the X-Mansion?? I so thought it was Cassandra, especially because the twinkling eyes had wrinkles all around. There is also the matter of the body. Hank and Scott "saved" Cassandra's body in X-Men 155-156, so is that this Cassandra? Are there two Cassandras?? One in Ernst body and the other one back in her old body and evil?? Is it a mistery or a screw up??

The Mistery Woman... while all senses say "Danger Will Robinson, Jean Grey is back amongst us", I can't believe it is her. It would be too much of a low blow for someone like Whedon to do it. If he did he will be remembered as the guy who brought dead characters back and nothing else. Now, what do we know about this woman? First, she is a she, second, she is the one responsible for the group to gather, third, Shaw referred to herself as perfection, fourth, she has a white glove. The white glove can help us think it's not Jean, cause she never used white gloves. It can also make us think it's a former White Queen... and there is only one who fits that bill, Adrienne Frost. More and more so I believe it is. What if Emma didn't kill her? What if she just made everyone believe she did with her telepathy? Would Xavier have allowed her to teach at his school if she had? Adrienne Frost would be a great choice for this mistery character, the older Frost, manipulating the youngest... I kinda like it. Another person
that comes to mind... is Madelyne Pryor. She knows Summers, perhaps even better than Jean, so she could truly understand why Emma loves him. And it would be so totally cool is Maddie made a comeback. She should've been one of the greatest X-Villains, but she was so easily dismissed after Inferno. And then of course there is the matter of her incestuous relationship with Nate Grey... goddess I don't even want to remember that. Another character that could be great in this guise would be Sage. I mean, this character gathered this team, she knows things Cassandra doesn't, she's "perfect", it could easily be Sage, only that Sage is in Excalibur, so it can't be her... but she would fit so nicely... So, my choices are either Adrienne Frost or Madelyne Pryor, what do YOU think?

 

[FieryBalrog]

Let's start with the simple one. Teenage Negasonic Warhead, or whatever her name is... it's not too unplausible to think her mutant power is to make her dreams come true, after all, she dreamt all of Genosha was going to die and they did, now she seems to have dreamt herself back to life and well... she is alive.

Shaw... he recovered pretty quickly it seems... I have a strong feeling Whedon has no clue about the latest Hellfire Club storyline in Uncanny, which can certainly be a cause for headaches in future issues. Shaw says in 13 that the HC has turned into a glorified Strip joint... and that is no longer the case. It was so during Morrison's run, but Claremont fixed that stupid senseless story and brought back the Inner Circle... wonder if someone will point that out to him. Anyway, Shaw does have a reason to want to get back to the X-Men... but thse aren't the X-Men he should be mad at...

Cassandra... GODDESS!!! How can Cassandra Nova be there, in her old body, while Ernst is still in the mansion?? This is totally mind-boggling. I do like the fact that SHE was responsible for getting Emma to Genosha (that was never explained in the first place) and why she created herself such a weird secondary mutation (another unexplained mistake). But now?? What is she doing there?? And... wasn't Carter's imaginary friend Cassandra?? I mean, how many bodyless female entities live in the X-Mansion?? I so thought it was Cassandra, especially because the twinkling eyes had wrinkles all around. There is also the matter of the body. Hank and Scott "saved" Cassandra's body in X-Men 155-156, so is that this Cassandra? Are there two Cassandras?? One in Ernst body and the other one back in her old body and evil?? Is it a mistery or a screw up??

Cassandra is in a shape-shifter's body, remember? Stuff, the alien?

As for Austen's stuff about "finding" Cassandra, lets just forget about it. Its Austen.

The Mistery Woman... while all senses say "Danger Will Robinson, Jean Grey is back amongst us", I can't believe it is her. It would be too much of a low blow for someone like Whedon to do it. If he did he will be remembered as the guy who brought dead characters back and nothing else. Now, what do we know about this woman? First, she is a she, second, she is the one responsible for the group to gather, third, Shaw referred to herself as perfection, fourth, she has a white glove. The white glove can help us think it's not Jean, cause she never used white gloves. It can also make us think it's a former White Queen... and there is only one who fits that bill, Adrienne Frost. More and more so I believe it is. What if Emma didn't kill her? What if she just made everyone believe she did with her telepathy? Would Xavier have allowed her to teach at his school if she had? Adrienne Frost would be a great choice for this mistery character, the older Frost, manipulating the youngest... I kinda like it. Another person
that comes to mind... is Madelyne Pryor. She knows Summers, perhaps even better than Jean, so she could truly understand why Emma loves him. And it would be so totally cool is Maddie made a comeback. She should've been one of the greatest X-Villains, but she was so easily dismissed after Inferno. And then of course there is the matter of her incestuous relationship with Nate Grey... goddess I don't even want to remember that. Another character that could be great in this guise would be Sage. I mean, this character gathered this team, she knows things Cassandra doesn't, she's "perfect", it could easily be Sage, only that Sage is in Excalibur, so it can't be her... but she would fit so nicely... So, my choices are either Adrienne Frost or Madelyne Pryor, what do YOU think?

Madelyne Pryor is also dead, and Marvel officially hates all clones/distaff children with convoluted backstories. Hence the disappearance of Nate, Maddy, and the fact that Rachel is basically referred to now as Scott and Jean's 616 daughter, and Cable is just kept away from the X-books period.

So I doubt its gonna be Maddy.

I doubt its gonna be Jean either. The only reason it would be Jean is that Perfection knows Emma loves Scott for real, and the only person who knows that is Emma, Scott and Jean, and Hank because Jean told him.

 

[americanguy96]

I don't think it is Jean, but then, who could it be? I'm also interested to see how Whedon explains everyone who is in the Hellfire Club actually being there, seeing as the majority should be dead or seriously weekend. Whatever the case, this book is still really good.

 

[Valechan]

Cable is going to be on X-Men, so he's not off the X-books. And there is not an issue of Uncanny when they don't mention that RAchel is from the future (and that Psylocke's tk can shatter mountains). So they do love convoluted Summers crap.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Cable is going to be on X-Men, so he's not off the X-books. And there is not an issue of Uncanny when they don't mention that RAchel is from the future (and that Psylocke's tk can shatter mountains). So they do love convoluted Summers crap.

um, the whole End of Greys storyline only works if you ignore the fact that Rachel isn't even related to any of these people because she's from a different universe.

 

[BBraddockLover]

im thinking adrienne but i want it to be maddy

 

[Exploding Boy]

I hope so much that it is not Madelyne Pryor. Why??? There is no need to bring back a dead clone. Then what will Scott ditch Emma and get back with Maddie? Then what... they have a kid who gets infected with a virus and sent to the future, and Jean comes back and is pissed at Scot for getting with another women, then history jsut repeats itself.

That would be lame.

 

[Chamber_UK]

I doubt its Adrienne, her powers were never something that suggessted that she would become anything more powerful....

MY GUESS IS THAT ITS ONE OF THE STEPFORD CUCKOO'S THAT HAS MERGED WITH THE PHOENIX FORCE!!!!

 

[FieryBalrog]

I doubt its Adrienne, her powers were never something that suggessted that she would become anything more powerful....

MY GUESS IS THAT ITS ONE OF THE STEPFORD CUCKOO'S THAT HAS MERGED WITH THE PHOENIX FORCE!!!!

It can't be. Whedon has obviously planned this from the beginning- the clues are there from the first arc. And Endsong was planned and written after that...

Not to mention, we never saw the Cuckoo get possessed by the Phoenix shard and so far they've been completely normal. Which leads me to believe that hint went nowhere.

 

[Chasers1984(2)]

I'm still sticking to my thought that Emma is just seriously f***ed in the head right now and the Hellfire club is simply a dillusion of hers. The cloaked figure has to be Jean (whether real or in Emma's mind has yet to be determined).

1. Whedon has a fetish for strong women (of which Jean is the epitome).
2. Whedon has gushed over how much he'd love to write her countless times.
3. There's no one the HC would refer to as "Perfection" other than Jean.
4. Assuming this is in Emma's mind, it makes total sense for "Perfection" to be Jean.
5. It's just so fricking obvious I don't see how any of you could possibly deny it no matter how much you love/hate Jean.

 

[Xplicit Content]

^ I buy that and think that it's probably the most likely scenario. The thing is, the prospect of all this being real is a lot more interesting.

 

[Exploding Boy]

It would be really lame if it were just a dream of hers. So anti-climatic.

 

[FieryBalrog]

It would be really lame if it were just a dream of hers. So anti-climatic.

yes. Like that season of Dallas.

 

[Exploding Boy]

yes. Like that season of Dallas.

Like any bad movie/tv show/ect that has the character waking up in the end from a dream and that is what the whole show was. Thats a complete waste of a story arc

 

[Manic]

Little does anyone know that Astonishing X-Men actually takes place inside of the snowglobe owned by the little autistic boy (the return of Squidboy?!), who's been asleep the whole time.

 

[Chamber_UK]

Mike from Marvel had confirmed on UXM.net that the 'ramifactions' of endsong would be addressed this summer, and that the cuckoos will play a big part in that.... Leading me to believe that one of the cuckoos has joined with the phoenix force and is lying in wait.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Mike from Marvel had confirmed on UXM.net that the 'ramifactions' of endsong would be addressed this summer, and that the cuckoos will play a big part in that.... Leading me to believe that one of the cuckoos has joined with the phoenix force and is lying in wait.

could you link to that story? I want to read what he says about it.

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/article/showquestion.asp?faq=11&fldAuto=277
Edit: nm, is this it? Because he doesnt say endsong will be addressed this summer

Trevor -- Phoenix: Endsong was, in my mind, a hit. What plans do you have for a future title that involves the same cast?

Marts – We were so excited about the success of the story. There is defiantly a lot of potential to do more with the concepts that were involved in that story.

or that the cuckoos would be a part in it, the two questions just happen to be next to each other.

 

[Chamber_UK]

Yeah but the question right after that one is....

Trevor -- Can we expect the Stepford Cuckoos to become more developed in the future or have they been put on hold for now?

Marts -- There will be important developments for these characters over the next year. (This interview was done January 23rd)

....What other development really is there for the cuckoos???

 

[FieryBalrog]

Yeah but the question right after that one is....

Trevor -- Can we expect the Stepford Cuckoos to become more developed in the future or have they been put on hold for now?

Marts -- There will be important developments for these characters over the next year. (This interview was done January 23rd)

....What other development really is there for the cuckoos???

Its a possibility I wont deny it. However, he doesnt say theyre going to address the ramifications of Endsong this summer (which would be a much stronger case, I think). Rather, he just says "theres a lot more potential with those concepts" which is a generic/vague answer.

I guess we'll find out in 3-4 months.

 

[rjb182]

Like any bad movie/tv show/ect that has the character waking up in the end from a dream and that is what the whole show was. Thats a complete waste of a story arc

There's a difference, though. The bad part about the Dallas thing-- or any "it's all a dream" plot-- is that it invalidates the story. It's a retcon, and a cheap one.

IF Whedon planned from the beginning to have Emma hallucinating all this, in order to make some point about the character, and fit it in with the rest of the story, that would be a different thing entirely. That's just a bait-and-switch, which can still be used to cheat dramatically but can also be done really well.

Mind you, I don't really think she's imagining it myself. It's probably more effective to have her really involved with some shady stuff-- I mean, it's EMMA after all-- and ultimately have to choose sides.

But any way they want to go with it, it'll be better than "Dallas." Joss Whedon is many things, but not a dramatic cheater. The man will rip your freaking guts out in a second if he thinks the story calls for it.

 

[Abaddon]

Yes,and we all know about his penchant for killing likable female characters in violent ways.

 

[Manic]

Yes,and we all know about his penchant for killing likable female characters in violent ways.

We miss you, Fred...

 

[Abaddon]

We miss you, Fred...

and Anya,and Jenny,and Joyce,and Lilah...etc

 

[Manic]

Joyce died from a tumor.

 

[Abaddon]

well it was complications from surgery which caused an aneurysm,but I see your point.



It applies to the others though.