Comics AStonishing's Hellfire Club Discussion

[rjb182]

I think Perfection is actually Spider-Man's Uncle Ben.

Okay, I don't, but they've brought everybody else back to life lately...

 

[GreatWhiteWhale]

I suppose it could be Madeline Pryor

Warren Ellis actually did a subtle retcon when he was writing X-Man that said that an evil Jean Grey from an alternative universe travelled over to 616 killed Madeline and posed as her for an indefinite ammount of time.
So i suppose we really don't know what happened to Maddy.

But I mean, even discluding the above plot point, she already has a hugely convlulted backstory and I cant see Whedon trying to untangle and explain it.

Didnt Emma have another sister? Cordellia? What happened to her?

And I thought Emma was the only mutant in the frost family, what are the specifics to Adrienne?

With that said, the Frost Family is a plot point from Generation X and I can't see Whedon picking that up either, I think the more likely conclusion is something from Morrison's New X-Men..

..Sublime anyone?

 

[Chamber_UK]

Emma has 3 siblings...

Christian Frost -
Emma's older brother and only friend growing up. Because of his homosexuality, Emma's father had his boyfriend deported. This lead him to drug addiction and attempted suicide, he was eventually institutionalised and that was the last we heard of him. It is unkown whether or not he was a mutant or not.

Adrienne Frost -
Emma's older sister, even more power mad and selfish then Emma ever was. Adrienne inherited the Frost famliy fortune (after Emma ran away) and owned a vast business empire. She was approached by Emma after years of not speaking for a loan after Emma's own company had fallen into financial difficulties and was unable to fund Generation X.

In exchange for the loan Adrienne demanded to be a co-headmaster of the Massachusats Academy. Secretly she was plotting to kill Generation X to hurt Emma (probably out of jealousy as it was Emma who was originally chossen to be their father's heir, Emma had refused). She soon revealed her intentions to be the new White Queen, planted a bomb in the school which killed Synch. As revange Emma killed Adrienne by shooting her with a gun.

Mutant Powers: Adrienne was also a mutant, and had the power a psychometry. Which enables her to psychicly see the history and possibly the future connections associated with any object she touches (Like Abe Sapien from the Hellboy movies). She is also immune to Emma's telepathy.

Cordelia Frost -
Emma's younger sister, spoilt, bratty, and even snobbier then Emma. She first showed up when she tried to petition Shinobi Shaw for the role of the Hellfire Clubs new White Queen. As a gift she had kidnapped a mutant name Mondo. Shaw was not impressed and sent her packing.

Gen X eventually save Mondo and he joined the team, it soon turned out that this Mondo was infact a clone under the control of Black Tom, the clone was eventually killed.

The real Mondo (somewhat of a son to Black Tom) for his Birthday a couple years later went on a 'hunting trip', with Cordelia as the prey. She fled to Gen X for help from Emma. They defeated Black Tom, Mondo, and the Juggernaut. Cordelia is currently travelling the world with a jet set life style thanks to a trust fund set up for her by Emma.

Mutant Powers: Cordelia was identified as a mutant with VERY low level psychic powers. So far the only thing this has portrayed is that she is immune to Emma's telepathy. Writers have said that they intended for Cordelia to be infact simpley immune to ALL forms of telepathy...but nothing else. It is assumed that after M-Day she is now depowered.

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..Sublime anyone?

Phoenix erased Sublime for the timestream, so he techniqually NEVER existed.

Here's another thought? The white glove on Perfections hands, does anybody else think it could be an alternate reality Emma?

 

[Chamber_UK]

Edit.

 

[americanguy96]

Phoenix erased Sublime for the timestream, so he techniqually NEVER existed.

Here's another thought? The white glove on Perfections hands, does anybody else think it could be an alternate reality Emma?

I don't think Whedon is going to go all alternate reality on us, it just doesn't seem like him.

 

[Chamber_UK]

Erm.....Vampire Willow ring any bells?

 

[Mogwai]

I think that it's Jean, but in her head.

 

[Valechan]

What if it's Xorn??? Or Magneto pretending to be Xorn pretending to be Perfection? Or Illyria??? I liked Illyria a lot

 

[Chasers1984(2)]

What if it's Xorn??? Or Magneto pretending to be Xorn pretending to be Perfection? Or Illyria??? I liked Illyria a lot

I actually think you're on to something Sebita. This mystery figure has to be Xorn pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn pretending to be Jean who's back from the dead pretending to be Buffy pretending to be Magneto who really is Xorn who created a wormhole to collect his daughter Fred who was kidnapped by Shaw and forced to be Perfection.

 

[Abaddon]

And its all being secretely orchestrated by the First Evil!

 

[GreatWhiteWhale]

Sublime was behind the entire of history and the development of humanity.

If Phoenix erased Sublime from the timeline, then shouldn't the timeline be vastly different?

Damn Morrison and his paradoxes.

Screw it. Perfection is obviously

Spoiler

*********

Hey, slightly off topic but... does anyone remember that old dangling plotline from Lodbell that involved a mystery character freezing time and giving Shaw a strange envelope?

Anyone?

 

[Cryostar1177]

Not really ringing a bell for me....around when did this happen?

 

[masterj]

I think Perfection is Jean dressed in the white queens unifrom. This would represent Emma's idealism of Jean and also show her want to be loved as much as Jean, as seen in Endsong. The other person I think it could be is one of the Stepford Cuckoos empowered with a fraction of the Pheonix force. I don't know how the Cuckoos would fit into it the plot but maybe they could serve as a way for Jean to communicate to Emma and would mean Joss wouldnt have actually show Jean. I dunno just a few thoughts.

 

[MoPlaYa]

When does issue 14 of Astonishing come out????

 

[Specter313]

When does issue 14 of Astonishing come out????

Next week.

 

[Abaddon]

Maybe its Queen Jean!

















I hope not.

 

[Valechan]

Hey, slightly off topic but... does anyone remember that old dangling plotline from Lodbell that involved a mystery character freezing time and giving Shaw a strange envelope?

Anyone?

I do remember it, but it wasn't Lobdell's, it was the Seagle/Kelly pair. If memory serves me right it happened in X-Men 72-73 or 73-74, I remember the Pacheco art on one of those meetings. It is a long unsolved plot that I've always wanted to see solved, but I doubt Whedon knows about it. Personally I've come to think that the person was actually Elias Bogan, and the meeting was that fateful poker game where Shaw lost Tessa to him.

 

[BBraddockLover]

when did that stuff happen to maddy?

 

[Valechan]

Must've been on X-Man 63-75, the last issues, which I don't possess.

 

[GreatWhiteWhale]

That's right, it was the first arc of Ellis's run. During 'Counter-X'.

It was actually a pretty good storyline, but Ellis took X-Man right out of contiuity and sent him into a completely different direction. Thus the Maddy retcon.

White Jean is a pretty could guesstimate i'm reckoning.

I think one of the important clues that we're missing is: Why does Danger know Emma's secret? Danger possessed no form of telepathy that we know of and she was created prior to Emma being an X-Man. So.. Unless Emma did something dodgy in the Danger Room at one point.. It leads me to believe that the 'whedon's trick' is in Emma's perspective, not the external, omnipotent.

(Yeah I suppose the Envelope could have been Bogan's poker invitation, but I wonder what Seagle originally intended. It seemed to me that it was a set up for epic and interesting possibilities, and the mysterious figure had interesting nuances)

 

[FieryBalrog]

That's right, it was the first arc of Ellis's run. During 'Counter-X'.

It was actually a pretty good storyline, but Ellis took X-Man right out of contiuity and sent him into a completely different direction. Thus the Maddy retcon.

White Jean is a pretty could guesstimate i'm reckoning.

I think one of the important clues that we're missing is: Why does Danger know Emma's secret? Danger possessed no form of telepathy that we know of and she was created prior to Emma being an X-Man. So.. Unless Emma did something dodgy in the Danger Room at one point.. It leads me to believe that the 'whedon's trick' is in Emma's perspective, not the external, omnipotent.

(Yeah I suppose the Envelope could have been Bogan's poker invitation, but I wonder what Seagle originally intended. It seemed to me that it was a set up for epic and interesting possibilities, and the mysterious figure had interesting nuances)

It would be funny if Perfection was Xavier. That would explain the DR knowing.

Uh, I cant think of any real explanation though. All i can think of are strange hints like remember in the Danger arc, when Emma was "passed out" in the infirmary, one of the HFC members was there cloaked? Who among the HFC people can cloak? Unless it was a telepathic cloaking? And the dialogue doesn't sound like Cassandra at all. Its probably Perfection.

 

[Chamber_UK]

Before this whole new HFC thing was happening, and that voice was talking to Emma, i thought that Emma was being a mole for SHIELD? Remember agent Brand was saying...

Brand: 'Has our mole reported in yet?'
Agent: 'We can't get into contact'

And obviously Emma was unconcious at the time, so i thought it was Emma.

 

[moonstar]

Well if Scott can control his optic blast or have it come out anywhere but his eyes what will his new code name be?

Any ideas?

 

[TheVileOne]

Didn't they just do a hellfire club story in X-men last year?

Marvel sure does like to rehash crap a lot.

House of M? = Glorified High Evolution rehash. Or I should say, re-crap.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Spoiler

HFC appears to be real! Beast saw Cassandra! This isn't some boring "it was a dream" story!

yay!