Atheism: Love it or Leave it? - Part 3

[enterthemadness]

I'll use the "I hate labels" one or tell them none of your business.

 

[marygthu]

Although I am a deeply religious person, I would not hold a gun to anyone's head for being an atheist! This is an excellent site I love it! Heck, I would not probably even try to preach anything to him/her!

 

[MizSamBlackcrow]

Wow this place is a match for me! Pokemon that has nothing to do with Herman Cain, SuperHeros, Atheism, Anime and Daria. Add in Animaniacs and Freakazoid and I'll be in fictional heaven. The only one that exists.

My favorite book of all time is American Gods by Neil Gaiman. The majority is from the Character that I used to come up with a nick. She says a lot of contradictory things, but at this time in the book I believe that she is an atheist though in the story all gods that ever were worshipped exist including the ones that we continue to make up. My point i'd like to make is that if the capital g god is real, why aren't all of them? I hope that this isn't too long:

"You wouldn't believe me if I told you."
"I would." She sounded angry now. He wondered if bringing the wine to the dinner had been a wise idea. Life was certainly not a cabernet right now.
"It's not easy to believe."
"I," she told him, "can believe anything. You have no idea what I can believe."
"Really?"
"I can believe things that are true and I can believe things that aren't true and I can believe things where nobody knows if they're true or not. I can believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and Marilyn Monroe and the Beatles and Elvis and Mister Ed. Listen -- I believe that people are perfectible, that knowledge is infinite, that the world is run by secret banking cartels and is visited by aliens on a regular basis, nice ones that look like wrinkledy lemurs and bad ones who mutilate cattle and want our water and our women. I believe that the future sucks and I believe that the future rocks and I believe that one day White Buffalo Woman is going to come back and kick everyone's ass. I believe that all men are just overgrown boys with deep problems communicating and that the decline in good sex in America is coincident with the decline in drive-in movie theaters from state to state. I believe that all politicians are unprincipled crooks and I still believe that they are better than the alternative. I believe that California is going to sink into the sea when the big one comes, while Florida is going to dissolve into madness and alligators and toxic waste. I believe that antibacterial soap is destroying our resistance to dirt and disease so that one day we'll all be wiped out by the common cold like the Martians in War of the Worlds. I believe that the greatest poets of the last century were Edith Sitwell and Don Marquis, that jade is dried dragon sperm, and that thousands of years ago in a former life I was a one-armed Siberian shaman. I believe that mankind's destiny lies in the stars. I believe that candy really did taste better when I was a kid, that it's aerodynamically impossible for a bumblebee to fly, that light is a wave and a particle, that there's a cat in a box somewhere who's alive and dead at the same time (although if they don't ever open the box to feed it it'll eventually just be two different kinds of dead), and that there are stars in the universe billions of years older than the universe itself. I believe in a personal god who cares about me and worries and oversees everything I do. I believe in an impersonal god who set the universe in motion and went off to hang with her girlfriends and doesn't even know that I'm alive. I believe in an empty and godless universe of causal chaos, background noise, and sheer blind luck. I believe that anyone who says that sex is overrated just hasn't done it properly. I believe that anyone who claims to know what's going on will lie about the little things too. I believe in absolute honesty and sensible social lies. I believe in a woman's right to choose, a baby's right to live, that while all human life is sacred there's nothing wrong with the death penalty if you can trust the legal system implicitly, and that no one but a moron would ever trust the legal system. I believe that life is a game, that life is a cruel joke, and that life is what happens when you're alive and that you might as well lie back and enjoy it." She stopped, out of breath.

Shadow almost took his hands off the wheel to applaud. Instead he said, "Okay. So if I tell you what I've learned you won't think that I'm a nut."
"Maybe," she said. "Try me."

"Would you believe that all the gods that people have ever imagined are still with us today?"

"... Maybe."

"And that there are new gods out there, gods of computers and telephones and whatever, and that ti%y all seem to think there isn't room for them both in the world. And that some kind of war is kind of likely."<snip>
"Why would they have a war?" asked Sam. "It seems kind of redundant." <snip>"Just tell me you're one of the good guys."

 

[WildcatNC]

Screw the temple. I'd rather that money go to building a badass telescope, to study cancer, whatever. As an atheist, I don't want a temple built in "honor" of my world view.

I don't know, I kind of like the idea. I enjoy humor, parody, and p***ing off religious extremists. I don't REALLY agree with it, but it would be worth it for the reaction to me.

I'm more from the George Carlin school of thought though.

 

[DBryan]

I REALLY don't think it would accomplish even that much. It would accomplish the opposite. It would give people ammunition, something to point to and say, "see?? Atheism really is a religion!", and they'd be right.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

A temple is a place of worship. What are you worshipping if your an atheist?

And do not say 'nature' or 'the universe', because worship implies that the object of worship is sentient enough to know your doing it.

Worshipping science, nature or 'the universe' would be about as useful as verbally thanking your seatbelt for saving your life, and telling it you owe it one.

 

[DBryan]

Build a place of education instead of a temple.

 

[bunk]

Build a museum or science center, or even just a decent library. Well worth the money.

 

[NateHevens]

Build a place of education instead of a temple.

Build a museum or science center, or even just a decent library. Well worth the money.

Or donate to places attempting to find a cure for cancer, or HIV/AIDs.

Or donate to NASA to help move us closer to a Moon-base and sending humans to Mars.

Or give to the homeless, or Habitat for Humanity.

There are so many worthy things that can be done with the money... why the hell would anyone want to waste it building a temple?

 

[Kurosawa]

Yes, there are other planets out there capable of hosting life, but they are few and far in between. Does a god take credit for all the failed solar systems? For all the planets that did host life until they were destroyed by supernovas? Most of the universe we know, is empty. And useless for us. And then there's the fact that we have a pretty good idea of how planets are formed. Like Laplace said, god is unnecessary (well, he said it more eloquently, and in French, but I'm paraphrasing).

Even this planet isn't ideal for human habitation.

Belief is God is irrelevant to a belief in math. It happened here, life has existed despite the challenges, the percentage chance of it happening somewhere else is just too great. Even if it is one in a billion chance, it has happened somewhere else. We don't know everything. That is why I can't say I know if God exists or not. I refuse to close my mind to anything.

I believe in science, and science has shown over and over that what we think we know turns out to be different under further investigation and examination.

 

[Lighthouse]

I'm totally okay with other kids praying in school......as long as my child can make his blood sacrifice to Odin there as well.

 

[lordofthenerds]

I'm totally okay with other kids praying in school......as long as my child can make his blood sacrifice to Odin there as well.

In order to make a blood sacrifice he'd have to put a knife to himself. That's against most school policies.

Come up with a better analogy.

 

[Lighthouse]

In order to make a blood sacrifice he'd have to put a knife to himself. That's against most school policies.

Come up with a better analogy.

A knife to himself? No, no, no. He'd have to kill something.

 

[Kurosawa]

He could pray to Odin.

I have a buddy who (seriously) worships the Greek Pantheon. Hey, it works for him.

 

[Lighthouse]

FYI to everyone. I've been kidding. I don't have any children and I'm an atheist....although worshiping the Nordic Gods would be sooooo much fun

 

[lordofthenerds]

As long as they're not forcing their beliefs on others, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Unless you meant classroom-led prayers. That I've got a problem with.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I went to a CofE school. We had bible stories in assemblies and said the lords prayer at the end. We sang hymns and did the nativity at christmas (I was Angel Gabrielle ). We had class trips to easter and christmas services in churches, I was in the choir and we used to go round all the churches and old peoples homes singing hymns at christmas. I even used to go to a baptist summer school with my best friend because her family where quite heavily churchy.

My mum is not christian, but she had me christened as a baby. She said it was just so I had the choice (which tbh I don't really get now).

But none of that upbringing seems negative to me.

In fact, I look back on singing 'Oh little town of Bethlehem' or 'Silent Night' with fondness. Those summer schools were FUN, and full of great activities for kids. I loved the nativity plays. I even loved the bible stories.

None of that has stopped me from growing up and seeing that's just what they are - stories...

So I wouldn't particularly mind my kids school doing that kind of stuff. It's pretty harmless IMO.

It's not like we had sermons in the morning about hell and sinning and stuff. Just the nice allegories and tales of Jesus' kindness and performing of miracles, which aren't exactly bad things to be telling kids.

They tell us God is up in the sky and looking after us. They also tell us a fairy takes our teeth and leaves us money and a jolly fat man comes down our chimney's with presents at christmas.

I'm fine with that TBH.

But if my kid gets to the age of figuring out Santa's not real and says 'Mum, is God real?' I'll say 'No honey, it's just a nice story.'

Maybe I'm being naïve about how much religion in childhood gets deep into some people... I just know it never effected me, and my acceptance of what I view as the truth.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

^^ This gal ^^= my life, except Catholic, not CofE.

 

[Sloth7d]

Um, yeah, you are being naive, or possibly too self-centered, if you're basing the entirety of an action soley on your experience of it without consideration to others or the ethical and logical implications of it. In this case, the implication is clear in the case of public schools; not everyone is the same religion or even religious at all.

 

[DBryan]

I enjoy looking around at various youtube videos and arguments and such. And I find that Poe's Law comes into play more and more. I find it harder and harder to distinguish between the fundamentalists and the people who are doing satire.

 

[Thundercrack85]

And there's that pesky separation of church and state thing that thousands died to get.

 

[Sloth7d]

Does the U.K. have such a law? I didn't bring it up since I wasn't sure if I could in her case. But I know even in the U.K. not everyone is the same religion/religious, so you'd think there would be a law to keep secular the public schools there as well.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Oh sorry, I'm so used to talking about America on here, I forget that not everyone here is from there.

The UK actually has a state religion, unlike the US. One founded by Henry the 8th, of wife killing fame. Britain's many religious wars were the main reason the Americans wanted to keep religion out of the government.

Contemporary English law recognizes freedom of religion. The situation in schools is very different, and the government can and does support religious schools, but there are also secular schools. It's rather confusing, and varies greatly.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Um, yeah, you are being naive, or possibly too self-centered, if you're basing the entirety of an action soley on your experience of it without consideration to others or the ethical and logical implications of it. In this case, the implication is clear in the case of public schools; not everyone is the same religion or even religious at all.

First of all, ouch, what's with the sting in that statement? Seems a bit nasty to call me self centred when my only point was whether or not I'D be comfortable as a parent sending MY kid to a school that had a similar sort of christian influence. If it were the best school, I PERSONALLY wouldn't be put off by the fact it was CofE.

I said nothing about whether people of other faiths would or should.

Obviously I'm not saying people of different faiths should be fine with it, or that it should be present in all schools or even be a major part of the school system. And TBH, since I don't have a kid and haven't been in primary school for a very long time, I have no idea how much things have changed and if they even still do things like that in that school anymore.

It was just a comment on my personal lack of worry about it.

Although I'm an atheist, I have no problem with a child of mine being raised in a similar way to how I was, because I don't think it neccesarily brainwashes children into being christian... But like I said, I could be wrong and end up with a kid who believes it all heartily because of what they are told in school and I'll eat my words!

That's all I was saying I might be naïve about.

Think you took my thoughts the wrong way

 

[hopefuldreamer]

^^ This gal ^^= my life, except Catholic, not CofE.

See, I'd probably be slightly more hesitant to send a kid to a catholic school because I always see catholicism as being more to with with Hell and sinning than the more 'gentle' denominations.