• Secure your account

    A friendly reminder to our users, please make sure your account is safe. Make sure you update your password and have an active email address to recover or change your password.

  • Xenforo Cloud has scheduled an upgrade to XenForo version 2.2.16. This will take place on or shortly after the following date and time: Jul 05, 2024 at 05:00 PM (PT) There shouldn't be any downtime, as it's just a maintenance release. More info here

Avengers Academy

Veil is quickly becoming my least favorite person in comic books EVER. I'd almost rather hang out with Moon Knight.
Yeah, Veil's recurring theme seems to be f***ing everything up with the best intentions. She's sweet and naive but she makes such jaw-droppingly idiotic decisions that it's hard to like her.

“From the moment I first started writing AVENGERS ACADEMY, I knew that sooner or later there would come a big crisis like this, and it got me thinking about how those who fight wars tend to be disproportionately young people,” reflects writer Christos Gage. “So I really want to explore what it’s like for kids this age to suddenly find themselves on a battlefield, with stakes as huge as they get and death all around. It’s an experience that leaves no one unchanged, and that’s absolutely going to be true for these guys.”
And this is why Gage is one of my favorite writers in the industry. Instead of grousing about how events keep interfering in his masterworks, he accepts the reality of today's comic industry and does his best to work with the events. :up:
 

Avengers Academy #11 Preview


2eyi4wn.jpg
 
Brb, googling Korvac

You're kidding.

While not as well known as Kang or Ultron, Korvac is one of the Avengers' most powerful enemies. He is a guy from an alternate future who basically absorbed the power cosmic to become omnipotent. He was a bad guy from the GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY future who gained even more power from the Power Cosmic. The Guardians went back in time to warn the Avengers that he was coming, presuming that he would destroy everything. Unknown to them, the power actually made Korvac less evil with his omnipotence, and he sought to hide from pursuers and maybe save the universe. Unfortunately, the Avengers and the Guardians all attacked him en masse when they found him, and he killed them all. This made his wife/consort, Carina, doubt him, which caused him to revive the Avengers and commit suicide in grief. Then Carina attacks the Avengers until Thor takes her down.

The woman is probably Carina, the Collector's daughter who was basically Korvac's wife.

It was one of the Avengers key sagas of the late 1970's. Whether modern readers who weren't even born yet who are this title's main audience will care is unknown. But, it is certainly interesting. QUITE a trial by fire for our cadets.

One would think this episode would have taught the Avengers a lesson about blindly attacking every seemingly omnipotent menace they face without any mercy or planning. Instead, insert every Avengers confrontation with Scarlet Witch since 2004.

"Is that Wanda? Wanda's spawn? Wanda's picture? KILL IT TO DEATH!"
 
I loved it too. It wasn't my overall favorite issue of the run personally, but it was a great read. This would have been really cool if it crossed over into the other Avenger titles, giving us a perspective from the other teams while they were fighting Korvac. But instead we're getting Fear Itself. :(
 
But I don't want to read NEW AVENGERS and AVENGERS. And if it tied into those titles, it wouldn't be Gage's story anymore. He'd have to do whatever Bendis had happen in his issues, or tag along. I know it is a reality that you have to do crossovers to inspire "importance", but I am happy with reading one book and the story itself reads like an event.

Besides, I don't think Marvel could get a lot of people hot and bothered about Korvac in a Thor/Cap film year.
 
Yeah, Gage kinda bombed picking Korvac as the villain. I don't know anything about him other than his name. I don't even know what he looks like and don't care.
 
I've dropped the book starting this issue. I need to cut things and while I'm enjoying everything I read, somethings had to get cut. This was one of them. This, Avengers, Secret Avengers, and likely Incredible Hulks.
 
Yeah, Gage kinda bombed picking Korvac as the villain. I don't know anything about him other than his name. I don't even know what he looks like and don't care.

And that is why you suck.:oldrazz::whatever:

I wouldn't say he "bombed" picking Korvac. The sales are already low because of Bendis lovers :o like yourself that prefer his redundant crap over stuff that is pulled from an awesome time in Avengers History. The sales aren't going to get any lower. Besides, it seems like most of the readers so far are giving it positive reviews.
 
Don't know why people who like Bendis are hurting this book. There's likely just as many people who don't like Bendis who aren't buying it.

And I'm hardly a Bendis lover. I dropped Avengers as well :rolleyes:
 
Don't know why people who like Bendis are hurting this book. There's likely just as many people who don't like Bendis who aren't buying it.

And I'm hardly a Bendis lover. I dropped Avengers as well :rolleyes:

Sometimes I'll drink the Bendis kool-aid. SIEGE and New Avengers #1-6 are recent examples. He's starting to piss me off again with his 50's Secret Avengers.
 
It's not ticking me off as much as it's just not as good as the previous arc. I'm actually more turned off by Chaykin's art than Bendis's story though.
 
I'd rather have Chaykin become the regular artist than this garbage right now. Kraven and Sabertooth as one of the first Avengers??? That is damn near sacrilegious.
 
Yeah, Gage kinda bombed picking Korvac as the villain. I don't know anything about him other than his name. I don't even know what he looks like and don't care.

Korvac is a strange duck. To long time, or well read, Marvel/Avengers fans, he was a major villain for a key saga back in the late 70's. It was such a famous story that a trade paperback collection of it was sold as far back as 1991, when trades were still very rare and usually limited to well known classics (such as DEATH OF GWEN STACY, GOD LOVES, MAN KILLS, etc.). He has appeared in comics before and since, but that one saga for about ten or so issues of material is one of those cornerstones in Avengers history.

On the other hand, to anyone who ISN'T a well read Marvel/Avengers fan, he's not as recognizable as Loki, Kang, or Ultron. In Marvel's defense, it isn't entirely their fault. Korvac is so powerful a villain, and that late 70's story so iconic, that he only shows up about once a decade since then so he seems special. Alas, that often doesn't cut it in the short Internet memory age (when something from, gasp, 2002 is "ancient" already). Heck, I think the last time he appeared, comics were still $1.99 if memory serves. That's ages ago already.

Gage saw some parallels between Veil and Carina, or at least saw Korvac as a suitable villain to really test the kids mettle. He's a mega powerful foe from the Avengers past who, despite how many Avengers you throw at him, he rarely is outright defeated (and even if, not without the aid of a cosmic Maguffin device). If the kids could barely handle Mentallo or Absorbing Man, how can they hope to take him on? That's instant drama. While Carina allowing them to utilize their "future selves" at their full potential evens the odds, it only does so slightly. Even if Mettle is as strong as the Hulk as an adult, that won't do diddly against Korvac if even Thor falls to him. A giant T-Rex or Finesse copying Elektra's skills won't do more than stall him. Of course, if future Hazmat has access to ANY radiation in the future, including cosmic radiation, that could be key, and cap her subplot from issue ten.

Kang already showed up in AVENGERS and AVENGERS: THE CHILDREN'S CRUSADE: YOUNG AVENGERS #1, and besides, Gage might actually use him WELL, which goes against Marvel's editorial goal for him. Marvel has relied so heavily on hero vs. hero for years, or random battles, their the old school Avengers villains are becoming a roster that has a few well worn members and many unknowns. I've been griping for years how Count Nefaria, an international mob boss with enough power to take on Thor and Wonder Man alone and pummel them at times, should be an INCREDIBLE threat (especially the Kingpin, a sumo wrestler in a suit, somehow challenges Spider-Man); instead, he hasn't done much since 2004, and the Hood basically usurped his potential with his demonic bed-sheet (or Loki's magic marbles). Most people wouldn't know who he is.

There is a part of me that thinks it is a shame to shut off the "can Hank revive Wanda" subplot, if only because if AVENGERS ACADEMY were allowed to do that, it MIGHT be a big story with extra promotions and thus sales. But, few characters Bendis personally kills return too quickly, so maybe Gage just saw the writing on the wall. Dan Slott may have been "allowed" to revive her had he continued on MIGHTY AVENGERS, but he didn't. I at least think it was an effective twist, it not being Janet at all.

AVENGERS ACADEMY's sales are low, but not near cancellation range for an ongoing title yet. While sales slipped again in February, they were by a small margin, which suggests the audience is becoming stable. It has outlasted quite a few of Marvel's launches of the past 12-18 months, and Marvel seems willing to commit to the title until a 20th issue. In terms of quality, it's my favorite AVENGERS title. I read it and SECRET AVENGERS, and the comparison is stark. As for Bendis Avenger comics, I already gave two of them a collective 60 issues of my time, and don't feel another 60 will improve my enjoyment, or lack thereof, of them.

I still say ACADEMY is the best Avenger book on the stands. It has old stuff for old fans, new characters for new fans, and well written characters all around. But, different strokes, and all that.

I do think it was silly of Marvel to release the first trade as a needlessly expensive hardcover first. They should learn the lesson of RUNAWAYS in that cheaply priced trades can do wonders to make up monthly sales shortfalls. Three digests at under $8 brought in a slew of fans to the second volume of RUNAWAYS, at least for a while. I've personally seen ACADEMY as a good "gateway" comic for newer readers (as I have gotten at least two people to read it who are hardly Marvel veterans), and I wonder if that could be multiplied. At any rate, the title will survive past a year and might even near two, a milestone by today's standards.

Considering that this is a title that features a cast of B and C list Avengers as well as new characters, the fact that it has done THIS well is an accomplishment. YOUNG ALLIES, which actually had older characters (Firestar is practically older than I am), sank like a stone. The new THUNDERSTRIKE mini is vanishing under the radar (a shame). For the moment, ACADEMY is the RUNWAYS of 2010-2011; hangin' in there.
 
Well if this book makes 20 issues I can't complain at all because I thought for sure it wasn't going to make 8.
 
Well if this book makes 20 issues I can't complain at all because I thought for sure it wasn't going to make 8.

Issues #13 & 14 ship in May. And June's issue #15 kicks off the title's tie-in with FEAR ITSELF, which is set to be a 5 issue story. Thus, issue 20.

The lack of crossover tie ins, in addition to these being times when they don't sell as well, also hurts it. This book's parent series, AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE, enjoyed artificially boosted sales from no end of crossover subplots and events: THE INITIATIVE, WORLD WAR HULK, SECRET INVASION, DARK REIGN, and SIEGE within 35 issues. Sales for A:TI were actually low before SIEGE boosted them for the final arc of that title, and it is possible FEAR ITSELF could do it for Academy. Marvel is also releasing an extra giant size one shot and having the kids show up in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, which is a consistent Top 10-15 seller. I'd argue the time to start pushing the book harder was BEFORE a year was up and not after, but better late than never. Gage will have had over a year's worth of time to establish his cast before having to tag team for an event, which is a luxury he and Dan Slott rarely had in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE (which had a far larger cast and a far darker tone).
 
So if history repeats itself and AA gets an event boost, it may even get extended to, let's say 6 more issues to #26. At least we could get a 25th issue special.
 
I do hope it survives and picks up more readers. It is a good book, just not one of my favorites. And my criticisms of using a fairly unknown villain these days, despite his importants in the past, is that when a book is struggling, it needs to bring in new readers. Having villains most readers these days don't know isn't going to help that out at all. If you can get a good readership that's consistently steady (and I hope the steadiness lasts beyond a month) then you can take more risks. I just don't think it's the time for it.

It might be the greatest comicbook story of the year but if no one's reading it then what's it matter. The book is likely still going to get canned within another year.
 
But can a "popular" villain boost sales? What villain is "popular" enough to do so? The Hood showed up a few issues back, and that didn't help. The Hood has basically been the main villain in NEW AVENGERS for years. I think it is all a matter of promotion. The best selling issues of the series have been the debut, and the Giant-Man issue (which was the only issue since the debut even modestly promoted, as well as had the most variant covers).

Heck, genuine HEROES guest starring in a book don't effect sales anymore. Sticking Wolverine, Spider-Man, or Deadpool on your book doesn't do diddly; all three struggle to sell spin offs of their own these days. Gone are the days when slapping Venom, Punisher, Ghost Rider, or even X-23 in your book made sales cough upwards.
 
I'd like to see more of a crossover between Marvel villains. Doctor Doom in X-Men and Magneto in Avengers. And no, I'm not counting Children's Crusade because it ships only when the seasons change.:wall:
 
But can a "popular" villain boost sales? What villain is "popular" enough to do so? The Hood showed up a few issues back, and that didn't help. The Hood has basically been the main villain in NEW AVENGERS for years. I think it is all a matter of promotion. The best selling issues of the series have been the debut, and the Giant-Man issue (which was the only issue since the debut even modestly promoted, as well as had the most variant covers).

Heck, genuine HEROES guest starring in a book don't effect sales anymore. Sticking Wolverine, Spider-Man, or Deadpool on your book doesn't do diddly; all three struggle to sell spin offs of their own these days. Gone are the days when slapping Venom, Punisher, Ghost Rider, or even X-23 in your book made sales cough upwards.


I agree that promotion is key but writers don't much affect that. They're job is simply to write. And really, has anyone EVER begged to see the Hood? Marvel's problem is they've taken every key villain that DOES drive sales and ****ed them out as much as the heroes. I mean, I remember back when I saw that Magneto was going to show up somewhere and I got excited... same with Dr. Doom, Liki, Green Goblin, and others. Nowadays we have Doom showing up in 2 or 3 books at a time and somewhere almost all year long. Who cares if Doom shows up again?

No body cares about heroes or villains enough to buy guest star issues with them because they can just go somewhere else that they're already reading and read them. But when you have people like me, on the fense with the book, a fight with Doom or the Rhino, or someone who is likable, might keep me on for a few more issues than someone I've never read before. Now here I am dropping the book when I could have stayed with it for this arc, and hey, maybe the Fear Itself tie-ins would have pulled me in too. But now I won't be getting either because of Gage's choice of villain.
 
I'd like to see more of a crossover between Marvel villains. Doctor Doom in X-Men and Magneto in Avengers. And no, I'm not counting Children's Crusade because it ships only when the seasons change.:wall:

That, and in that story, Magneto is not a villain in any way. In fact, he is the most compassionate and rational adult character in Heinberg's entire mini so far. The rest of the Avengers? Homicidal maniacs (Wolverine), general "hit/zap it" grunts (Iron Man) or characters who should know better but do as they're told (everyone else but Wonder Man). Not even Spider-Man is willing to let out a, "hey, maybe we shouldn't allow Wolverine to execute a 16 year old boy in front of us" sort of line.

But, in all seriousness, does Marvel have any villains who draw a crowd? So much of one that they do so outside the titles in which they are known best? Because I don't think villains have drawn much of a crowd at Marvel for ages. Marvel promotes many things for events, but I think the crowd is there for creative team and "importance". Marvel went from 2006-2008 having events in which heroes punched each other (Civil War & World War Hulk - yes, Hulk is seen as a hero by the masses). I think this era was the demise of the audience giving two ****s who the villain is, aside for rare examples. By "the audience", I mean the silent majority of non SHH members who buy comics and make up 90% of its audience.

I'd argue the biggest villains, by obligations to other books, CAN'T show up and do ANYTHING of "importance". Let's think of some big villains. Norman Osborn? He appeared before, and he's in lock up. Presumably, other writers want to handle him, and Marvel is probably giving him a rest after DARK REIGN. Like Skrulls, and Deadpool, he's been played out. Loki? Fraction made him a kid, and not a villain yet at all, in THOR. He's out of play. The Hood? He showed up, but otherwise stated, he can't do anything of consequence. He's Bendis' villain. If any team defeats him in a relevant story that "counts", it is not going to be the third string Avengers book, sadly.

There was a moment when Osborn/Iron Patriot and Sentry were totally spanked by the Young Avengers in trying to apprehend them in DARK REIGN: YOUNG AVENGERS, and afterward, he literally faced them and said, "This didn't happen. It doesn't count." The irony is Cornell was probably breaking the 4th wall a little, and he may not have known it.

Other big villains. Kingpin? He's been attached to AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, lately; although to be fair, Slott and Gage are frequent collaborators and often share their toys with each other. I don't think Fisk is that big anymore; Marvel has spent years stuffing him into the sidelines for Hood. Red Skull? Dead, and his daughter Sin is the property of Brubaker in CAPTAIN AMERICA and Fraction in FEAR ITSELF.

That leaves Ultron, who last showed up not long ago in MIGHTY AVENGERS. I suppose his subplot with Jocasta remains unresolved; Pym basically arranged a stalemate instead of outright defeating Ultron. But is he as hot as he was when MIGHTY AVENGERS #2 sold? When Bendis and Cho turned him into a naked woman? I don't know. MIGHTY AVENGERS sold better than ACADEMY has after a year, but it also was the Avengers' B-title, and Slott could be a bigger name. ANNIHILATION CONQUEST did not sell as well as ANNIHILATION did; prompting editorial, I imagine, to "suggest" that Abnett & Lanning resolve Brubaker's old X-Men plot with Vulcan and amp the Inhumans, which produced the better selling WAR OF KINGS. Vulcan > Ultron, at least in terms of sales. I'd probably rather the kids have this exact same moment against Ultron rather than Korvac; you could argue that besides the time travel power thing, you could swap Jocasta for Carina and the tone of the story would work properly. You wouldn't have the "Future Cadets" moment, though, and Ultron may be too big a villain to "extinguish" right now - while no writer is really going to miss Korvac. Plus, at least to Avengers fans, Korvac remains one of those rarely defeated villains; he just shows up so rarely, they may be the only ones psyched for him. I get it, and I do think Korvac offers far more of a challenge than Ultron; Ultron's just scarier. Korvac is a glowy, screamy energy man - the Collective, only decades sooner.

Baron Zemo? Property of Brubaker and/or Fraction on aforementioned titles. Besides, according to some Hype members, he's actually an anti-hero who has been written poorly this last year, so having him do anything that isn't saving orphans from fires is unholy rubbish. So, Zemo's out. And most of the REAL Masters of Evil have become proper heroes in Thunderbolts (Techno, Songbird, Moonstone), or are in limbo after doing so (Radioactive Man, Atlas).

To Gage's credit, the Sinister Six are slated to appear in AVENGERS ACADEMY #14, judging by the cover. They may be about as good as one can get.

I agree that promotion is key but writers don't much affect that. They're job is simply to write. And really, has anyone EVER begged to see the Hood? Marvel's problem is they've taken every key villain that DOES drive sales and ****ed them out as much as the heroes. I mean, I remember back when I saw that Magneto was going to show up somewhere and I got excited... same with Dr. Doom, Liki, Green Goblin, and others. Nowadays we have Doom showing up in 2 or 3 books at a time and somewhere almost all year long. Who cares if Doom shows up again?

No body cares about heroes or villains enough to buy guest star issues with them because they can just go somewhere else that they're already reading and read them. But when you have people like me, on the fense with the book, a fight with Doom or the Rhino, or someone who is likable, might keep me on for a few more issues than someone I've never read before. Now here I am dropping the book when I could have stayed with it for this arc, and hey, maybe the Fear Itself tie-ins would have pulled me in too. But now I won't be getting either because of Gage's choice of villain.

(A lot of my post above was partly for you.)

You'd honestly buy an issue with the Rhino in it? You'd be the first. ;) The Rhino is a typical thug sort of villain. He's better known than Mentallo, but he's also not usually the one who draws a crowd. He keeps getting used in "test a new hero's mettle" stories, and his losses add up. To be fair, he was the first villain the Kevin Masterson Thunderstrike fought in his mini, and Rhino actually won. But, you didn't see anyone flock to that issue.

In the same breath as you dismiss Dr. Doom appearances, you also want to see him in this book. The problem, though, is Doom as big as he used to be? He's been off the big stage for ages. He's better known than Whirlwind, but, he is also the "property" of Jonathon Hickman's FF right now. He's out of play.
 
Last edited:
http://marvel.com/news/story/15475/marvel_vs_30_rock

In an episode of "30 ROCK", AVENGERS ACADEMY #8 was put into a deep fryer. Joe Quesada and Tom Brevoort hopped upon it for a skit video.

I do wonder if that sort of "promotion" may help AA, or just have no effect, as I assume it will.

Poor Academy...everyone picks on it. :o
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
200,687
Messages
21,787,135
Members
45,616
Latest member
stevezorz
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"