Batman: Arkham City

[Drz]

Seeing that one snippet of Batman and non-giant Joker fighting makes me wish we get to fight Joker without that stupid Titan drug.

I liked the initial concept art where he stayed slim but just got more monsterious Hyena looking, that would fit with the Joker going all crazy frency and slashing Batman with his claws, but yeah lets hope AC handles the villain fights betters and provides some iconic shots. I always loved the ending scene with the Joker and Batman going all: I'll never let you win.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

 

[Darkness Falls]

Lol

 

[lixdexia]

yeah...i hope they put some kind of limiter on the detective vision this time. i like the way they did it in the captain america game where it just kind of radiates out then disapears on its own but i don't think that'll work here. maybe some kind of time limit thing where it will cut itself off after 30 seconds or something?

 

[Wolvieboy17]

What about the ability to manually turn it off with the press of a button when you don't need or want to use it?




Oh wait.

 

[lixdexia]

you know what you're right. making the game more challenging by adding a resource control element to it would be horrible, it never works out, ever. and it's not like that's something the game makers themselves have stated on numerous occasions that they hated about the first one. they should probably just get rid of the life bar too...

 

[Wolvieboy17]

You have a resource control element. Your finger and your brain. How hard is it to NOT use detective vision if you want a challenge? How is a 30 second timer any different? I don't even use detective vision for 30 seconds. I would pop in if solving a clue, or briefly to survey an area from above to see who has a gun, or see through walls. If you're finding yourself constantly trapped in detective vision, the only flaw Rocksteady need to correct is you. I'm sure they'll send around a hit squad.

 

[Robin's Holyisms]

Rocksteady Studios has promised some proper, yet so far undisclosed, attention for the PC version of the game. The PC's "life of its own" won't extend to extra game features though, we've been told that's not happening, but high-end PCs should be in for something bat-tastic.

PCFormat

 

[lixdexia]

i don't use it often, but there are puzzles that necessitate it, and adding a limiter on it would make those more challenging, which i would enjoy. but since you don't use it i don't see how it would apply to you at all, so...quit being a *****e?

 

[Soapy]

Getting rid of infinite detective vision isn't as much about challenge as it is about good game design. Having a game mechanic that makes the game significantly easier that can be exploited for the entire duration of the game is something that should be addressed. Fans have acknowledged it, and the developers have acknowledged it. I'm not sure why Wolvie is fighting it so hard.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

It's an old argument and it's still just as flawed.

For instance, you say some puzzles 'necessitate' it, but having a limiter would make it more challenging? If detective vision was truly 'necessary', not using it would make the puzzle impossible. If, however, it merely makes it 'more challenging', then it clearly isn't actually a 'necessity'.

There's a difference between something making the game easier and something being necessary. There are times when you use it to your advantage, but all that is needed is a quick survey of an area. People are complaining that they were using it all the time, during fights, while looking around at the environment, that it detracts from the amazing visuals. If you want to see the amazing visuals, look at them. If it's getting too easy, turn off detective vision. The game has crisp, clear visuals and you have a zoom functionality. If you use your brain, you can look at an enemy to see if they're packing, you don't need them painted red. Sure DV helps in a pinch, but again, use it when you want, don't when you don't. Incredibly simple.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Getting rid of infinite detective vision isn't as much about challenge as it is about good game design. Having a game mechanic that makes the game significantly easier that can be exploited for the entire duration of the game is something that should be addressed. Fans have acknowledged it, and the developers have acknowledged it. I'm not sure why Wolvie is fighting it so hard.

I just don't like whining about it when the power is the gamers to not use it.

I played AC 2 and Brotherhood, and I found when you upgraded all the armor, it made the game too easy and there was never any risk of dying. Sure I could have complained and whined that it was a flaw... Or I could have done what I did, and just equipped the weaker armor if I wanted a challenge. Problem solved. Same with Batman.

If something has the power to be exploited, that might be bad, but if you're exploiting it yourself, at least take some responsibility, don't just pass blame.

I don't care if they add a time limit, because like I said, I never use it that long, but I just don't accept how firmly people say it's needed, but deny any personal fault.

 

[lixdexia]

It's an old argument and it's still just as flawed.

For instance, you say some puzzles 'necessitate' it, but having a limiter would make it more challenging? If detective vision was truly 'necessary', not using it would make the puzzle impossible. If, however, it merely makes it 'more challenging', then it clearly isn't actually a 'necessity'.

i defy this logic to make any less sense.

 

[Savage]

It makes perfect sense to me. If detective mode is necessary then puzzles will be impossible to accomplish. If you can solve them without detective mode then detective mode is not necessary. No halfway point. Putting a time limit on detective mode adds nothing. I tend to go through the game without it unless I'm feeling lazy.

 

[Michael Frost]

A time limit would only be a hassle. Not a solution.

Puzzles that can be solved easier with Detective Mode don't make it "necessary". However, they do encourage it's usage.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

They might encourage it's usage, but that doesn't stop someone from using it if they genuinely don't like using it.

@Savage, thanks, i'm pretty sure it made perfect sense too.


On another note, from memory most of the complaints about detective vision in game reviews were that it stopped you from admiring the nice graphics of the environment, rather than minimalising the challenge. I remember most reviewers simply saying they'd prefer it without the blue tinge.

Also, of course Rocksteady would acknowledge it, it was like one of the only two complaints people had with that game, the other being boss fights. For them not to acknowledge those things among a sea of high praise would have been extremely arrogant.

 

[Soapy]

I don't like putting a time limit on it. I think a better solution would be to make your detective vision become staticy and distorted whenever you're running around at full speed or fighting.

 

[Drz]

You have a resource control element. Your finger and your brain. How hard is it to NOT use detective vision if you want a challenge? How is a 30 second timer any different? I don't even use detective vision for 30 seconds. I would pop in if solving a clue, or briefly to survey an area from above to see who has a gun, or see through walls. If you're finding yourself constantly trapped in detective vision, the only flaw Rocksteady need to correct is you. I'm sure they'll send around a hit squad.

I agree, if you want challange don't use it. I did this when i wanted challange, the only thing i'd change with the detective vision is not having the blue screen on atmosphere, only the thugs/bosses/monsters, but not the environment.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I think there's a reason DV comes back largely unchanged and it's because the devs know the argument being made against it is incredibly stupid.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Eh, I see where you're both coming on, but to me, detective vision felt more like a 'tool', and a special, tech vision to me with the blue. If it was just highlight enemy and info mode, it would feel more like a special power. It felt like the Sonar vision in TDK to me, with the blue and I quite liked that. It's like in the Predator games, even though it's not the most visible thing to look in predator thermal vision, it's iconic and you feel bad ass just activating it and watching people from above.

@Soapy, I know what you mean, that's the same way they implemented sonar in Splinter Cell conviction which I think worked well for that, so you weren't too overpowered, but while in Batman that would stop people leaning on it in combat etc, it could make puzzle solving more stilted and annoying.

 

[Michael Frost]

They might encourage it's usage, but that doesn't stop someone from using it if they genuinely don't like using it.

Never said otherwise

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Indubitably, dear chap

 

[Michael Frost]

From a designer's perspective, if you have that tool there, you do want to encourage players to make good use of it. Otherwise it falls into redundancy.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I just don't like whining about it when the power is the gamers to not use it.

BUT...BUT...I CANT HELP MYSELF!!!

I need all my decisions made for me.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, but i've heard a lot of people complaining about using it during combat and just travelling the environment, which it really isn't encouraged for. It's quite clearly advantageous for puzzle solving and scanning a room in predator mode.