Batman comics need a revamp.

[Spider-Bat]

Things have gotten too muddled. With the crap they've done to Dr. Leslie Tompkins, having her kill, that was wrong, and then there's the worse crime of all...having Jason come back from the dead and becoming the Red Hood. That was horrible.

They should go ahead and clean up the continuity. Get rid of that garbage.

Put Leslie back the way she was, and put Jason Todd back in his grave.

I don't mean erase his past totally. Obviously keep the origin as is, from Year one to the great sequels such as Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Matt Wagner's Dark moon Rising books. But as for that other stuff, and the R.I.P stupidity just erase it and clean it up.

As for RIP it's just not worth reading. Well the Paul Dini stuff in Detective's good but that is because it hasn't gotten into the mind control thing and the Black Glove etc., it's just been a good HUSH story, very well done.

Dini always does a great job.

I just think Batman deserves better than what's been done over the last few years. They've fixed the movies, now it's time to fix the comics. It's a great time to be a Batman fan, this is truly the year of the Bat and I wanna' enjoy reading Batman as much as I do watching the new movies and the old animated series.

I'm not saying it's all been bad, as I stated, Dini's stuff's been great and the graphic novels from Loeb, Sale, and Wagner and some others but, they need to trim a few things here and there and clean it up a bit.

 

[Cain]

Yeah I think I'll wait for RIP to conclude before I start jumping the gun with the trash label if anything it's been refreshing imo so far. Leslie Thompkins/Spoiler crap has already been retconned where have you been? Jason Todd is seemingly here to stay if you don't like it just stick to your movies and animated series.

 

[The Sage]

I haven't seen much of Todd since his return, so it's no annoyance. Love what's going on in Nightwing, and I like the R.I.P. storyline so far.

 

[The Guard]

I'd rather see a writer make sense of all the muddlings, rather than just pretend it all never happened. That's a copout.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I knid of agree with the thread starter, but I'd prefer a retelling of sucky stories that should've been great. I mean, let's face it, A Death in the family stinks, but it is a must-have because of its iconicness. I'd say let some writers have a go at retelling these stories. I think also they need to stop making the next big thing because most of them suck, more people need to be like Paul Dini and Matt Wagner, making important and brilliant stores without changing the history of everything.

And yes, Jason Todd returning was the stupidest decision in ever.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Isn't RIP supposed to be the revamp that you're asking for? I'm not a huge fan of RIP but I'm not asking for a complete revamp, that leads to things like Knightfall and RIP.

 

[Rasputin911]

they also need to take villains like Clayface and Killer Croc back to their crime-noir roots and get away from the sci-fi BS. Batman shouldn't be sci-fi

More stories featuring Two-Face would be great as well. He isn't explored enough.

And Frank Miller is the only writer to come up with a good original villain in recent decades - The Mutant Leader in The Dark Knight Returns. We need more villains used in one-shots, so that the classic rogues don't get overused

 

[Matthew Allison]

Imagine being a 13-year-old kid, loving THE DARK KNIGHT film, deciding to try out a Batman comic and picking up one of the R.I.P. issues. I'd never want to read another comic book again. t:

I don't understand why DC hasn't tried to capitalize on the success of Nolan's films and start a new Bat-title that takes place in that universe. Get the team that did the Gotham Central series to do it (I realize most of those guys work at Marvel now, but that style and tone would work). I'd read it.

 

[Matt.S99]

I dont follow story arcs much and RIP didnt interest me much. Ive been hearing alot about it, but i dont know why. Whats the story about, does batman die or something?

 

[CaptainClown]

I agree, I want to see a take on Batman that is done like Bubaker and Bendis's Daredevil arc. I want them to take out all these bat family characters and take it back to the grit of Batman. I am kind of turning towards Marvel now which makes me feel crazy...

 

[Punchinello]

Things have gotten too muddled. With the crap they've done to Dr. Leslie Tompkins, having her kill, that was wrong, and then there's the worse crime of all...having Jason come back from the dead and becoming the Red Hood. That was horrible.

They should go ahead and clean up the continuity. Get rid of that garbage.

Put Leslie back the way she was, and put Jason Todd back in his grave.

I don't mean erase his past totally. Obviously keep the origin as is, from Year one to the great sequels such as Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Matt Wagner's Dark moon Rising books. But as for that other stuff, and the R.I.P stupidity just erase it and clean it up.

As for RIP it's just not worth reading. Well the Paul Dini stuff in Detective's good but that is because it hasn't gotten into the mind control thing and the Black Glove etc., it's just been a good HUSH story, very well done.

Dini always does a great job.

I just think Batman deserves better than what's been done over the last few years. They've fixed the movies, now it's time to fix the comics. It's a great time to be a Batman fan, this is truly the year of the Bat and I wanna' enjoy reading Batman as much as I do watching the new movies and the old animated series.

I'm not saying it's all been bad, as I stated, Dini's stuff's been great and the graphic novels from Loeb, Sale, and Wagner and some others but, they need to trim a few things here and there and clean it up a bit.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It was sleazy, and atrocious writing that they brought back Jason Todd.. As the Red Hood, no less; and now we have to deal with the garbage that's R.I.P, the Thompkins drama, and others. And the done-to-death (ahah, pun!) cliches of Bats employing a new Robin, only for him/her to be killed off in the next five issues.

 

[CrimsonMist]

I agree, I want to see a take on Batman that is done like Bubaker and Bendis's Daredevil arc. I want them to take out all these bat family characters and take it back to the grit of Batman. I am kind of turning towards Marvel now which makes me feel crazy...

i agree with you. I'd like to see some more gritty Batman stories. Get Brubaker and Bendis. Get Michael Lark, get Alex Maleev and give me Batman.

And i hear you about turning towards Marvel. Everytime i finish an issue of Punisher MAX i feel ashamed of myself for reading superhero comics. Hell, when i read Daredevil i feel ashamed of myself for reading Batman sometimes.

i also think they should let Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon have their way with a Batman mini-series. It would be genius.

 

[CaptainClown]

i agree with you. I'd like to see some more gritty Batman stories. Get Brubaker and Bendis. Get Michael Lark, get Alex Maleev and give me Batman.

And i hear you about turning towards Marvel. Everytime i finish an issue of Punisher MAX i feel ashamed of myself for reading superhero comics. Hell, when i read Daredevil i feel ashamed of myself for reading Batman sometimes.

i also think they should let Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon have their way with a Batman mini-series. It would be genius.

Batman has gotten just ridiculous with all these kind of insane characters etc. I want Brubaker and Bendis to come back to batman and write his own series on the character. I like the dark gritty art of Lark and Maleev and want a crime drama featuring Batman characters. I want them to have their own series without the restrictions of canon and including the whole goddamn bat family.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Batman has gotten just ridiculous with all these kind of insane characters etc. I want Brubaker and Bendis to come back to batman and write his own series on the character. I like the dark gritty art of Lark and Maleev and want a crime drama featuring Batman characters. I want them to have their own series without the restrictions of canon and including the whole goddamn bat family.

Amen.

As much as i like Tony Daniel and Dustin Nguyen, i don't really get a sense of atmosphere from any of them. Maleev and Lark have that. Not to mention they're both similar to Dave Mazzucchelli, which is always a plus. But i love Lark and Bendis' writing. Kinda pissed that the Batman/Daredevil crossover written by them didn't happen due to some stupid disputes between companies. That would have been AWESOME.

 

[CaptainClown]

Amen.

As much as i like Tony Daniel and Dustin Nguyen, i don't really get a sense of atmosphere from any of them. Maleev and Lark have that. Not to mention they're both similar to Dave Mazzucchelli, which is always a plus. But i love Lark and Bendis' writing. Kinda pissed that the Batman/Daredevil crossover written by them didn't happen due to some stupid disputes between companies. That would have been AWESOME.

Ya, I want DC to take advantage of the fact Batman revolves around humanity and is capable of applying real life scenarios with a super hero twist. I want all the fantasy parts to be toned down completely and create an almost strict universe where only certain heroes exist. DC almost seems stuck in the past with this idealistic type of hero when people want an anti-hero and stories filled with gray not black and white.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Ya, I want DC to take advantage of the fact Batman revolves around humanity and is capable of applying real life scenarios with a super hero twist. I want all the fantasy parts to be toned down completely and create an almost strict universe where only certain heroes exist. DC almost seems stuck in the past with this idealistic type of hero when people want an anti-hero and stories filled with gray not black and white.

Agreed. If it can work for Daredevil it can work for Batman. You can take so many of Batman's characters and infuse them into this kind of scenario, too. Daredevil stories still maintain a certain level of fantasy, with the inclusion of people with powers. But it's still very real.

I don't mind Superman popping up in Batman books and vice-versa. I just wish that for Batman, they eliminated the "superhero" element. And by that, i mean crazy twisted plots like RIP, and super crazy technology. Give Batman the cave and the computer and the batmobile, and a grapple gun. But get rid of alot of the other stuff that screams "SUPERHERO COMIC!".

Frank Miller pulled it off. Paul Dini, for the most part, has pulled it off. Matt Wagner has pulled it off. Even Loeb. Where i find RIP interesting, it's such a superhero plot.

I want Garth Ennis to write Batman. It'll be so messed up!t:

 

[CaptainClown]

Agreed. If it can work for Daredevil it can work for Batman. You can take so many of Batman's characters and infuse them into this kind of scenario, too. Daredevil stories still maintain a certain level of fantasy, with the inclusion of people with powers. But it's still very real.

I don't mind Superman popping up in Batman books and vice-versa. I just wish that for Batman, they eliminated the "superhero" element. And by that, i mean crazy twisted plots like RIP, and super crazy technology. Give Batman the cave and the computer and the batmobile, and a grapple gun. But get rid of alot of the other stuff that screams "SUPERHERO COMIC!".

Frank Miller pulled it off. Paul Dini, for the most part, has pulled it off. Matt Wagner has pulled it off. Even Loeb. Where i find RIP interesting, it's such a superhero plot.

I want Garth Ennis to write Batman. It'll be so messed up!t:

Ya, Daredevil and even Captain America does it perfectly. The superpowers aren't the focus of the story. The current Batman and Robin titles feel like cliche superhero comics. Same crap happens over and over. If they kill someone they should REMAIN DEAD! Stop ****ing with the past and move on.

ugh...we should write a new series...that is all...

 

[CrimsonMist]

Ya, Daredevil and even Captain America does it perfectly. The superpowers aren't the focus of the story. The current Batman and Robin titles feel like cliche superhero comics. Same crap happens over and over. If they kill someone they should REMAIN DEAD! Stop ****ing with the past and move on.

ugh...we should write a new series...that is all...

Exactly. I'm all for writing a new series, haha. It'll be more awesome than the Goddamned Batman boinking Black Canary while in costume!t:

That'll show Frank Miller what for.

 

[Cain]

"I want, I want, I want"

That's all you see in here. Fact is based on the consistent sales Batman nor 'tec is in bad shape with the great majority of fans. You guys are the vocal minority now if you want gritty Batman and all that mess there are plenty of trades and one shots available that will please you that I guarantee most of you haven't even heard off. Get into the recommendation thread ask around and track those down if you don't like the main books right now because most fans seem to be enjoying them. If not just stick with Marvel comics. Personally I'd take RIP over Broken City, War Drums, As The Crow Flies and War Games all day every day.

 

[Matthew Allison]

"I want, I want, I want"

That's all you see in here. Fact is based on the consistent sales Batman nor 'tec is in bad shape with the great majority of fans. You guys are the vocal minority now if you want gritty Batman and all that mess there are plenty of trades and one shots available that will please you that I guarantee most of you haven't even heard off. Get into the recommendation thread ask around and track those down if you don't like the main books right now because most fans seem to be enjoying them. If not just stick with Marvel comics. Personally I'd take RIP over Broken City, War Drums, As The Crow Flies and War Games all day every day.

I'm fully aware of the trades and one shots you refer to. I have internet access and live in a city that has book stores.

DC sold 103,533 copies of Batman #679. THE DARK KNIGHT took in over half a billion dollars. The millions of people who went and saw the Batman movie aren't running out and buying millions of Batman comics. Now, there are a lot of reasons for this, but I can only imagine that some of those people are indeed flipping thru the latest issue at their local Borders, seeing Batman in a purple, red, and yellow costume talking to Bat-Mite, and thinking "What the hell is this crap?". I just think DC's missing a big opportunity here to cash in on the success of the latest film, while also pleasing "the vocal minority", as you've referred to us.

 

[C. W. Saturn]

I'm fully aware of the trades and one shots you refer to. I have internet access and live in a city that has book stores.

DC sold 103,533 copies of Batman #679. THE DARK KNIGHT took in over half a billion dollars. The millions of people who went and saw the Batman movie aren't running out and buying millions of Batman comics. Now, there are a lot of reasons for this, but I can only imagine that some of those people are indeed flipping thru the latest issue at their local Borders, seeing Batman in a purple, red, and yellow costume talking to Bat-Mite, and thinking "What the hell is this crap?". I just think DC's missing a big opportunity here to cash in on the success of the latest film, while also pleasing "the vocal minority", as you've referred to us.

Stay calm. It's just how comics works these days. Stories written by fanboys for fanboys, edited by fanboys, published by companies led by fanboys.

True professionals and businessmen are rare.

 

[The Guard]

I don't so much have a problem with Jason Todd coming back, because let's face it, no one stays dead in comics, and there's a lot of potential there. What I have a problem with is the way he was brought back. Such a ridiculous explanation, when far better ones were possible.

I think DC's needed an ULTIMATE line for years now. ALL STAR just isn't cutting it.

 

[Cain]

I'm fully aware of the trades and one shots you refer to.

Know you aren't because I didn't specifically mention any

I have internet access and live in a city that has book stores.

So do I looks like we have more in common then just being Batman fans

DC sold 103,533 copies of Batman #679.

How are those bad numbers? and you honestly can't compare the general movie going public to comic reading people because there is a vast differemce in terms of numbers when it comes to general movie fans Vs. comic fans.

THE DARK KNIGHT took in over half a billion dollars.

Quite well deserved.

The millions of people who went and saw the Batman movie aren't running out and buying millions of Batman comics.

And they never won't only thousands of those millions will actually be interested in reading the comics, this is reality based on how big those millions really are and how alot of them look down on comics but not comic based movies.

Now, there are a lot of reasons for this, but I can only imagine that some of those people are indeed flipping thru the latest issue at their local Borders, seeing Batman in a purple, red, and yellow costume talking to Bat-Mite, and thinking "What the hell is this crap?". I just think DC's missing a big opportunity here to cash in on the success of the latest film, while also pleasing "the vocal minority", as you've referred to us.

Look since I'm jocking his quotinh style in this post I have to say I agree with Guard that DC does need an Ultimate line. A line of comics that reinvents their icons for the new generation but doesn't replace the canonical stuff. All-Star is still just for fanboys in terms of Batman cause it's in the Miller verse. I think Morrison did the right thing with Superman anybody could read those and totally get it. Batman needs that. However I honestly think when people see the movie and want to get into the comics they just get on the internet and find out how to get the most easy to get into stuff the Year One's and Long Halloween's etc. this is no longer the stand at a newstand and read a comic age I doubt most of them even know about RIP.

 

[Figs]

I kind of agree with Cain and The Guard about DC needing an Ultimate line.

I think Bermejo's soon to be released Joker story would have been nice for that, I like how they redesigned Riddler and can't wait to see how Two Face is going to be.

 

[C. W. Saturn]

I kind of agree with Cain and The Guard about DC needing an Ultimate line.

I think Bermejo's soon to be released Joker story would have been nice for that, I like how they redesigned Riddler and can't wait to see how Two Face is going to be.

Nah. Because sooner or later the typical "HEAVY-CONTINUITY" would creep into this new line and we would have the same again. We need one-issue stories. Sold at newsstands. Written by professionals.