Batman comics need a revamp.

[C. W. Saturn]

How are those bad numbers? and you honestly can't compare the general movie going public to comic reading people because there is a vast differemce in terms of numbers when it comes to general movie fans Vs. comic fans.

30 years ago the title would've been canceled with these numbers.

 

[Cain]

30 years ago the title would've been canceled with these numbers.

This isn't 30 years ago this is the present where on average the top selling comic sells about 165,000 copies a month. Face it a lot of people outgrew comics what gets me though is that fans have known this for years. They could never be pleased. Many had a beef with "comic newbies" then when it's made for them they still complain. At the end of the day until anybody here including myself writes a Batman comic we can't do squat you either accept it or reject it.

 

[C. W. Saturn]

30 years ago people outgrew comics after about 5 years. But unlike today there was a constant flow of NEW readers. And this is missing today. But hey, modern readers stay with their characters for 20 years. TOday the American comics are sold worldwide not just domestic. Europeans buy the original ones and so on. The population of the USA is bigger and yet they sell much less? There is something wrong.

It's the fanboy industry. Someone who thought "I wanna see Clark and Lois marry" became a writer years later and they did it. Would've never happened back then.

DC and Marvel are run by fanboys. They don't have much interest in business things. They just want to live out their fantasies. But it will not work forever.

 

[Matthew Allison]

Know you aren't because I didn't specifically mention any

I'm confused - did you mean to type "I know", or "No"?

What you said was "...plenty of trades and one shots available that will please you that I guarantee most of you haven't even heard off". You then went on to mention Broken City, War Drums, As The Crow Flies and War Games. I've heard of those titles, along with Gotham Central, Batman: Year One, and any number of the "grittier" Batman books out there. Don't be a wise-ass unless you have a real argument to back up.

As far as the rest of your post - when people write sentences such as this..."And they never won't only thousands of those millions will actually be interested in reading the comics, this is reality based on how big those millions really are and how alot of them look down on comics but not comic based movies."...it becomes clear to me that they're not worth having a disussion, much less an argument with because they can barely put together a legible sentence. How could you be expected to create a reasonable point?

Ultimately, the reason I replied to your original post in the first place is that you're one of many members of this forum who feel the need to jump into a thread for no other reason than to **** on it. You're fine with the current state of Batman comics? Great. Go read some and let us have our discussion.

 

[Cain]

30 years ago people outgrew comics after about 5 years. But unlike today there was a constant flow of NEW readers. And this is missing today. But hey, modern readers stay with their characters for 20 years. TOday the American comics are sold worldwide not just domestic. Europeans buy the original ones and so on. The population of the USA is bigger and yet they sell much less? There is something wrong.

Modern readers stay with their characters for 20 years cause we're the only ones left the ones who never stopped reading. Something you have to understand America today is not the America of yesterday in so many different ways it's not even funny. The youth from my generation and those before had a chance to get into comics cause we weren't occupied with texting, the internet and trying to grow up too fast we were kids we were into sports, playing video games and reading comics. That's not what's hip with most of today's youth so there go your new readers time's change.

The fanboy industry. Someone who thought "I wanna see Clark and Lois marry" became a writer years later and they did it. Would've never happened back then.

DC and Marvel are run by fanboys. They don't have much interest in business things. They just want to live out their fantasies. But it will not work forever.

Hey I don't disagree that the politics of that industry within the past 2 decades has made it very misguided and muddled. However I will say that DC is in much better shape today than it was 10 years ago and the same applies to Marvel even though I haven't read Marvel on the regular for years I see people harping about Brubaker's Captain America and such.

 

[Cain]

I'm confused - did you mean to type "I know", or "No"?

I meant to type "know that" but being human I make mistakes.

What you said was "...plenty of trades and one shots available that will please you that I guarantee most of you haven't even heard off".

Yes

You then went on to mention Broken City, War Drums, As The Crow Flies and War Games.

Yeah becuase I think they were hot garbage. You didn't even bother to look at the context I typed that in since you misinterpreted it. My point being that RIP is at least better than alot of those crappy storylines we got this decade and I forgot the debacle known as Under the Hood add that one to the list.

I've heard of those titles, along with Gotham Central, Batman: Year One, and any number of the "grittier" Batman books out there. Don't be a wise-ass unless you have a real argument to back up.

There are stories out there many people on here haven't heard of it's why we have the reccomendation thread so that when someone asks for a certain type of Batman tale any of us could put them on. I know there are people reading this right now who have never read Batman: Absolution, The Many Deaths of the Batman, Child of Dreams, Night Cries and lots of other overlooked stories. Spare me the labels I wasn't trying to be a wise ass I was making a point which is what we do on forums (now I'm being a wise ass).

Batman has one of the largest publication catalogues of any superhero there is something out there for everybody they just have to look. Wanting the regular comics to all of a sudden shift from their progression to just to cater to their tastes is selfish. I'm not somebody who has enjoyed all the canonical Batman stories but after following the books for 20 years from good to bad I think it will be unfair.

it becomes clear to me that they're not worth having a disussion, much less an argument with because they can barely put together a legible sentence. How could you be expected to create a reasonable point?

Now you're being the wise ass but find I'll simplify to the lowest form

movie fans >>>>>>> comic fans in terms of numbers the percentage of movie fans turned comic fans will never be even close to being as large as the percentage of movie fans that don't care for comics. Easy enough for you there fella.

Ultimately, the reason I replied to your original post in the first place is that you're one of many members of this forum who feel the need to jump into a thread for no other reason than to **** on it.

Who are you? I don't know any of you people here like that. I post myu opinions on here is all sometimes they're in agreements with topics and sometimes not. I'm not here to be some negative jack ass know what you're talking about and search my post history before opening your mouth about me stranger.

You're fine with the current state of Batman comics? Great. Go read some and let us have our discussion.

As a member of this community it is my right to join this discussiona nd even have debates on here it's why we sign on to SHH everyday.

 

[Matthew Allison]

"I want, I want, I want"

That's all you see in here.

That right there is called ****ting on a thread topic.

 

[Figs]

Nah. Because sooner or later the typical "HEAVY-CONTINUITY" would creep into this new line and we would have the same again. We need one-issue stories. Sold at newsstands. Written by professionals.

Forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by the continuity of the original and main Batman line creeping into the "ultimate" line?

Wouldn't they be two separate lines that don't mix??

Also, I'm all for one shot stories. There's a lot of good ones out there and I would like to see some more with some villains that hardly get used, like Black Mask, Mad Hatter and Mr. Freeze.

 

[CaptainClown]

Forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by the continuity of the original and main Batman line creeping into the "ultimate" line?

Wouldn't they be two separate lines that don't mix??

Also, I'm all for one shot stories. There's a lot of good ones out there and I would like to see some more with some villains that hardly get used, like Black Mask, Mad Hatter and Mr. Freeze.

Basically create a new line for all the DC characters which isn't held back by canon and is in a way a bit more grounded.

Also I like one shot stories but I think a series with those villains would be awesome. Oh well.

 

[Dark Victory]

I've always wanted a Batman run like Bendis and Maleev's on Daredevil.

 

[CaptainClown]

I've always wanted a Batman run like Bendis and Maleev's on Daredevil.

Thats what some of us are wanting. I can't put those runs down at all, they keep the tension and are just overall amazing to read.

 

[Dark Victory]

Thats what some of us are wanting. I can't put those runs down at all, they keep the tension and are just overall amazing to read.

You got em too, Cap? I just said **** it and got the hardcover volumes. Even though I'm broke now, it was SOOOOOO worth it. t:

 

[CrimsonMist]

You got em too, Cap? I just said **** it and got the hardcover volumes. Even though I'm broke now, it was SOOOOOO worth it. t:

i have 3 of the Bendis paperbacks, and my college has Hell To Pay vol. 2 in the bookstore, which i've read like 4 times(i dont have any money to actually buy it. It's still there, waiting, calling my name, screaming BUY MEEEE!!!).

And my comic shop has the Bendis Omnibus for 50 bucks. It's a steal. I WANT to buy it. But i have no money.

I really want these guys on Batman. Sales would soar.

 

[margon]

all those wanting a hardboiled Batman can try Gotham Noir, see how much fun that is.

DC sold 103,533 copies of Batman #679. THE DARK KNIGHT took in over half a billion dollars. The millions of people who went and saw the Batman movie aren't running out and buying millions of Batman comics. Now, there are a lot of reasons for this, but I can only imagine that some of those people are indeed flipping thru the latest issue at their local Borders, seeing Batman in a purple, red, and yellow costume talking to Bat-Mite, and thinking "What the hell is this crap?". I just think DC's missing a big opportunity here to cash in on the success of the latest film, while also pleasing "the vocal minority", as you've referred to us.

been into a comic shop lately? you'll see Killing Joke, Long Halloween and Year One mass ordered and prominently displayed.

the comics and films are two different markets, it's that simple. DC would be stupid to let the mainline titles play second fiddle to some movie

DC and Marvel are run by fanboys. They don't have much interest in business things. They just want to live out their fantasies. But it will not work forever.

the companies are doing better than they have ever been. BY FAR. and do you know why? of course you don't. stop pretending like you have some kind of grasp on comics as a business

 

[CaptainClown]

Hey I have Gotham Noir and I really like it and want a series on that. One book is not enough to satisfy me. I don't think any of us say they should drop the Batman title or the DC title, we just want a series that has a radically different approach to comics then have all Batman comics being really far fetched.

 

[CaptainClown]

double post

 

[Dark Victory]

Hey I have Gotham Noir and I really like it and want a series on that. One book is not enough to satisfy me. I don't think any of us say they should drop the Batman title or the DC title, we just want a series that has a radically different approach to comics then have all Batman comics being really far fetched.

Yep, I loved it too. Now Marvel is doing X-Men and Spiderman Noir which I might just pick up because you don'thave to go back and x number of issues.

 

[jewmaican20]

Morrison's writing can be very confusing sometimes, but I happen to enjoy his digging up all these old ideas and characters from Batman's long and storied past.

As for Detective, I think Dini has been doing a fine job...

 

[Majic Walrus]

Basically create a new line for all the DC characters which isn't held back by canon and is in a way a bit more grounded.

Also I like one shot stories but I think a series with those villains would be awesome. Oh well.

I've been saying this for a while but there's an issue. Have you read the Marvel Ultimate stuff lately? It blows. That's right, it sucks hardcore.

The only reason the Ultimate series was good is because it was fresh and new with a relatively small creative team. The only thing that happens if we create a new line for all DC Characters is there's a small boom in sales of those books and then a few months or maybe even a couple years later their sales sink so low that they cancel the books.

More books is not the solution to a problem of not being able to sell enough books. They might be great reads but they'd die out after a short while.

 

[jewmaican20]

DC and Marvel are run by fanboys. They don't have much interest in business things.

I don't know about Marvel (although I believe that Quesada is quite the business savvy individual), but Dan DiDio is nothing but a businessman, which is why a lot of people are pissed at him.

 

[DeGenerate10]

These comics need an enema

 

[Keyser Soze]

I just don't get the hate for Batman RIP. I only started Morrison's run the first issue of the RIP arc, it was my jumping-on point. And I've never been confused or baffled by what's going on, at least not anymore than the uncertainty you're supposed to experience while reading a mystery story. And when I see people saying "WHAT'S GOING ON THIS MAKES NO SENSE I HATE MORRISON AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!", I think that these people are either seriously slow, and need to be spoonfed everything to comprehend it, or more likely, they simply don't WANT to understand the story, and are going out of their way to make it seem inaccessible to them and everyone else.

Sadly, I fear a lot of readers had already decided they were going to utterly reject this story as soon as they heard it would be titled Batman RIP, and had made up their minds that they hated it before they read a single issue. It's a constant source of dejection, reading another issue of Batman that leaves me excited and eager to discuss it, only to come on here and find everyone whining and nitpicking over it instead. Will I have an issue with Batman RIP if it results in the death of Bruce Wayne? Definitely. But until then I can set my bias aside and appreciate the quality of the story based on its own merits.

As for the more general issue raised in this thread, I see no need for a Batman reboot. Detective Comics and Batman are two of the strongest - and best-selling - titles in DC's canon right now, each with a great writer at the helm. Sure, I hate Jason Todd's resurrection too. But I'd rather they found a good way to work around it rather than pushing the big red panic button and going back to the drawing board.

 

[Cain]

fue un mensaje doble.

 

[Cain]

I could list a lot of things I hated that happened in the Batman comics history within the past 10 years. Things like Harley Quinn being introduced to the DCU, the cancellation of LotDK Morrison's contigency plan Batman from JLA that evolved into Bat God the SuperDick, the death and then ressurection of Ra's Al Ghul, the majority of the Gotham Knights comic series, Early Sasha Bordeaux being forced on us by Rucka though eventually I grew to like the character, the killing of Spoiler, the killing of Robin's dad, Jason Todd returning of course and many others.

On the other hand I could also list many things I did enjoy like Robin growing into more of a detective and his own presence not just the sidekick, Batman going back to being more compassionate and down to earth, No Man's Land that was like one of the top 5 bat events if you ask me, the introduction of David and Cassandra Cain, the revelation that Jim is Babs real biological dad but that he never knows and many others.

I just can't sit here as a fan and say "damn you know what the comics need to change because I hated a lot of things from them". I have to be fair and look at the flipside and acknowledge the things I liked as well. I mean no disrespect but anybody who considers themselves genuine fan should never think that selfishly there is good and bad to everything in this world not just comics.

I just feel like for example in this thread we're all different from each other. However we're all here cause of Batman comics and I think that's a testament to how universal it all really is. That's what makes Batman great all the diversity. I know something I may like the next fan does not. In the end call me stubborn because the only opinion that matters to me is my own. The fact that story exists for people like me and the type of story you enjoy exists for people like you is why he is the best character.

 

[CaptainClown]

I just don't get the hate for Batman RIP. I only started Morrison's run the first issue of the RIP arc, it was my jumping-on point. And I've never been confused or baffled by what's going on, at least not anymore than the uncertainty you're supposed to experience while reading a mystery story. And when I see people saying "WHAT'S GOING ON THIS MAKES NO SENSE I HATE MORRISON AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!", I think that these people are either seriously slow, and need to be spoonfed everything to comprehend it, or more likely, they simply don't WANT to understand the story, and are going out of their way to make it seem inaccessible to them and everyone else.

Sadly, I fear a lot of readers had already decided they were going to utterly reject this story as soon as they heard it would be titled Batman RIP, and had made up their minds that they hated it before they read a single issue. It's a constant source of dejection, reading another issue of Batman that leaves me excited and eager to discuss it, only to come on here and find everyone whining and nitpicking over it instead. Will I have an issue with Batman RIP if it results in the death of Bruce Wayne? Definitely. But until then I can set my bias aside and appreciate the quality of the story based on its own merits.

As for the more general issue raised in this thread, I see no need for a Batman reboot. Detective Comics and Batman are two of the strongest - and best-selling - titles in DC's canon right now, each with a great writer at the helm. Sure, I hate Jason Todd's resurrection too. But I'd rather they found a good way to work around it rather than pushing the big red panic button and going back to the drawing board.

R.I.P. is hardly confusing, it is just a whole lot is happening and I don't care about any of it. All of the characters I just don't care about and just find the overall plot of the story to be very boring, especially concerning a story dealing with a characters death. The story seems to shock just for the sake of shocking.

I was looking forward for a good solid story of batman's death. A small recap of the end of a crusade, maybe Bruce finally coming to terms with his life ending etc. etc. Instead the story I read felt to me to be nothing more then a mere action flick with just little interesting parts. After reading something like Captain America I really felt a person is capable of killing off a legendary hero and having it be ok. However this run seems like the Illusionist, a mediocre response to the Prestige.

I don't think many people here want a Batman and DC reboot. I think we want a new title that is in a drastically different direction that Batman and DC are going. Batman's greatest thing going for him is that he is plausible but the series now just goes on these weird JLA tangents that some of us just don't care about.