Batman drops Napier explanation - by video!!!

[Blade90]

Considering you can see in the slow-motion that Batman makes a grab for Napier's hand after it slips, it pretty much proves what the others are saying.

 

[The Joker]

Then what did he have to look stunned about? Whether it was the director's intention or not, it's interesting and holds water.

He looks stunned because the man he's trying to save is slipping from his grasp.

Kev hates fanboys. Call him 'Roegele Sensei' or he'll rip your lungs out.

I'll bare that in mind

 

[Comic Book Boy]

Guys, it is PURPOSEFULLY ambiguous. You are meant to question it.

 

[Comic Book Boy]

But in the shot where Batman lets go, Napier's hand is back above the pipe. I think it's a continuity era more than anything.

Yeah, I noticed that confusing continuity error.

 

[Sun_Down]

Batman's change of expression is clearly due to the fact that Napier's hand is slipping from his grasp. Hence why his eyes widen.

My god!! Fanboys scare me sometimes

Couldn't agree more. He obviously tries to reach for him as he falls, as well. It's not really all that complex.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

He looks stunned because the man he's trying to save is slipping from his grasp.

Yeah, that would really stun Batman. Napier's lucky Batman even attempts to save him (this time).

 

[Honey Vibe]

Kev, after viewing this thread I (ironically) saw the whole film on AMC last night. The part where Napier tells Batman "You made me, when you dropped me in that vat of chemicals--!", you see Batman's smile drop. That's some rather solid, undeniable proof that Batman did not recognize him before.

 

[raleagh]

Kev, after viewing this thread I (ironically) saw the whole film on AMC last night. The part where Napier tells Batman "You made me, when you dropped me in that vat of chemicals--!", you see Batman's smile drop. That's some rather solid, undeniable proof that Batman did not recognize him before.

i think his smile dropped because for the preceding moments he was on a bit of a high because he finally getting to the kill his parents murderer.

then at that moment he was brought back down to earth because he realised that he had created a monster in the factory.

 

[mcflytrap]

But the argument that he drops him is only because he recognizes him as the killer. Unless yours is different....

but still, why would he drop him? Batman showed up to help apprehend Naiper so that he can testify against Grissom, he has no reason to kill him.

I'm certainly not going to say one way or the other....but I'll admit there was a time where I was watching the film and it sure looked like Batman dropped Napier on purpose. No, he didn't know that he was the guy that killed his parents...but Napier was a known criminal and murderer around Gotham, and if Batman did indeed drop him, it was just for this reason alone.

 

[Furious Styles]

Ok, here's my take.

Maybe it isn't a question of whether or not Batman conciously decided to let go of Napier's hand. When Batman looks into Napier's eyes, he pauses for that split moment; perhaps his subconcious recalls Napier as some long forgotten memory. And in that moment of indecision, when his subconcious is trying to come to the forefront, his grip loosens and he can no longer hold onto Napier.

 

[raleagh]

Ok, here's my take.

Maybe it isn't a question of whether or not Batman conciously decided to let go of Napier's hand. When Batman looks into Napier's eyes, he pauses for that split moment; perhaps his subconcious recalls Napier as some long forgotten memory. And in that moment of indecision, when his subconcious is trying to come to the forefront, his grip loosens and he can no longer hold onto Napier.

i like that

 

[Blade90]

Ok, here's my take.

Maybe it isn't a question of whether or not Batman conciously decided to let go of Napier's hand. When Batman looks into Napier's eyes, he pauses for that split moment; perhaps his subconcious recalls Napier as some long forgotten memory. And in that moment of indecision, when his subconcious is trying to come to the forefront, his grip loosens and he can no longer hold onto Napier.

That sounds just about right, IMO.

 

[panda_eater]

i think there's a bit of truth to all of the explanations. if that were vickie vale hanging over the toxic waste, he'd struggle and pull her over with both hands, but he's thinking too much, "what if the police let him go, what if he tries to pull me down with him," and vague deja vu "i feel like i know this guy, he's worse than i think he is"... batman's expression is trance-like, like he's thinking.. and all this time, oops, his glove slips.

something was telling his intuition or subconscious to let him go. his testimony wasn't worth it. so he just held on until jack slipped. he didn't know he was going to come back as a toxic-waste clown.

 

[Bat Attack]

he didn't know he was going to come back as a toxic-waste clown.

That part cracked me up,

 

[CConn]

Batman's change of expression is clearly due to the fact that Napier's hand is slipping from his grasp. Hence why his eyes widen.

My god!! Fanboys scare me sometimes

What the hell are you talking about? It's not reading into anything. It's simply observing an aspect of the film. I've noticed (and was puzzled by) Batman's expression since I was 4, at least.

 

[The Joker]

What the hell are you talking about? It's not reading into anything. It's simply observing an aspect of the film. I've noticed (and was puzzled by) Batman's expression since I was 4, at least.

And I still fail to see what you're puzzled about. Batman's facial expressions in this scene are pretty cut and dry to me, as I have already explained in this thread.

That's what the hell I'm talking about.

 

[CFE]

Batman's change of expression is clearly due to the fact that Napier's hand is slipping from his grasp. Hence why his eyes widen.

My god!! Fanboys scare me sometimes

I always thought his expression changed because he was repulsed by the damage the ricochet of the bullet did to Jack's face...Which led to him breaking concentration, added to the stress it takes to hold the entire weight of a grown man, who's also concious and flailing slightly to save himself, which led to Batman not being able to hold onto Jack.

CFE

 

[Warhammer]

I'm not saying that anything in this thread is false, but I always look at the scene as merely Batman loosing Jack's grasp. Interesting thread, Kevin.

 

[The Shape]

Even as a child, I understood it to be that even though Napier was obviously a criminal, Batman wasn't about to let him fall to his death. He grabs Jack's hand and tries to pull him upwards. However, due to Jack's weight and the fact that he is in no way helping Batman out (the guy just drops his other arm and expects Batman to pull him up all by himself!!!), he begins to slip out of Batman's grasp. That's when we get the "OH NOES!" look on Bat's face...which can commonly be confused with "OH I RECOGNIZE YOU!"

Napier falls. Even after he falls, you can tell Batman's thinking..."Oh, man. Almost saved him." And then he has to scoot.

 

[cryptic name]

i believe Burton has said the scene was filmed to be ambiguous. there is no right or wrong here, there is only what each viewer sees, which i think is great.

 

[Rockbottom]

Off topic but whats your av a pic of cryptic name?

 

[Changeling]

kewl vid

 

[Kevin Roegele]

kewl vid

You should see my other one(s).

 

[Superwoman Prime]

You should see my other one(s).

 

[Redwoods Wolf]

Even as a child, I understood it to be that even though Napier was obviously a criminal, Batman wasn't about to let him fall to his death. He grabs Jack's hand and tries to pull him upwards. However, due to Jack's weight and the fact that he is in no way helping Batman out (the guy just drops his other arm and expects Batman to pull him up all by himself!!!), he begins to slip out of Batman's grasp. That's when we get the "OH NOES!" look on Bat's face...which can commonly be confused with "OH I RECOGNIZE YOU!"

Napier falls. Even after he falls, you can tell Batman's thinking..."Oh, man. Almost saved him." And then he has to scoot.

That's how I always interpreted it. Burton seems to enhance the recognition at Vicki's (and then later in the cave) a bit too much and far apart for this quick scene to be a subconscious anything. The music itself has no emphasis on potential recognition, just the impending fall from a great height. Also, Bats' facial expression after the fall looks more like, "oh, sh1t, I accidentally killed a man," than "I know him from somewhere."

Either way, it leads to a great dialogue in the cathedral.