BvS Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

[TheFlamingCoco]

Dawgonnit! That's what I want. A MOS movie that HAPPENS to have Batman in the plot.

A true World's Finest would be great, but that should occur AFTER Metropolis/the life of Clark is fleshed out. And I would actually want Snyder to direct that one.

 

[BatLobster]

Tbh I totally understand why any true fan of MoS would feel that way.

But us hardcore Bat-fans can't help but want what's best for "our guy" too. It really is something of a conflict of interests, but I hope to hell they can pull it off and not alienate either side.

 

[sparksmcgee]

THIS is how Batman vs. Superman would go down, haha (harsh language) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-TbFzXdNwM
And even tho that skit clearly has the Bat go down--- my vote's still on him

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Tbh I totally understand why any true fan of MoS would feel that way.

But us hardcore Bat-fans can't help but want what's best for "our guy" too. It really is something of a conflict of interests, but I hope to hell they can pull it off and not alienate either side.

Dude. I LOVE Batman. I feel like the Nolan trilogy were generally good films that HAPPENED to have Batman in them, and not so good BATMAN films.

I am planning on reading more, but I can't get enough of what I've read from the pages. Batman is such a nuanced character. He's like hero meets anti-hero meets detective meets ninja..etc etc.

And I want him to be a relatively minor character. Doing so prevents OVEREXPOSING the character and giving audience a sense of "been there, done that." It allows for Superman to have his own movie, and for the franchise to work on its own.

But it also serves as a testament to how effective Batman can be as a stand-alone figure, even without having a narrative built around him.

In the film adaptation of DC:The New Frontier, Batman has a really minor role from what I can remember. But that moment when he warns the Manhunter of his ability to exploit the weaknesses of his opponent portrays the duality of the character very well.

Splitting up the narrative compromises the franchise, and takes the focus away from developing Clark Kent and the emotional themes established in the first film.

And it also risks the audience attaching to Batman more.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Dawgonnit! That's what I want. A MOS movie that HAPPENS to have Batman in the plot.

That's a disservice to both Batman and Superman. It means another hero is stealing the spotlight from Supes in his own movie, but also that said hero is not getting the attention he'd be due in a team-up film.

The pattern should be Batman / Superman, then MOS 2 is a solo film, kinda like how IM 3 followed the Avengers.

 

[GreenKToo]

what if its kinda broke down into two films before they meet. each side would then be satisfied I would think..you cant have it all.
Maybe spend 40/45 mins or so on batman and superman, each would have their own mini movie. each would be in their own city. Maybe joker and lex are the villains and they team up, causing supes and bats to meet up about halfway through.
the spotlight is then shared.
I truly think this film will need to be at least 2.45 mins long..the disservice would be to shorten this down.

Side note. I hope the ''shaky cam'' is thrown away for this...far away.

 

[vantheman77]

Are Superman and Batman going to spend the entire movie fighting each other in the MOS sequel?

How will this lead into the Justice League when they're on the same team?

Sometimes writers forget that Batman is human and Superman is an alien.

I also like Mike Carlin's statement about writers needing to keep their egos in check because Superman matters.

 

[italkgory99]

I think a goku vs superman would be fair to me batman has no chance whatsoever

 

[Batmannerism]

A purely physical fight.....no. Superman has stood up to some pretty heavy weapons fire from the military, got hit by a train that was thrown at him, and traded blows with foes with comparable strength and invulnerability, and came out on top. What's Batman got to cope with that ? Unless kryptonite shows up, not a lot. Of course if Bats can weaken Supes with kryptonite or some other device to make them physically equal (as in bring Supes down to his level) then of course Bats is the better fighter by miles.

Even in Miller's DKR, everything Batman hit Superman with was just a distraction to set him up for the Kryptonite. And, to be honest, Superman wasn't really trying all that hard, his heart clearly wasn't in it. In fact he takes a bunch of shots from Batman, because he's trying to talk Bruce down.

The other thing is that Superman is often portrayed as not using his powers
very effectively, super-speed being the worst, it's almost as if he forgets he has it. But once in a while, a writer finds it convenient to remember that advantage, and pow ! Superman wipes out some big nasty, I've seen him squash Monghul that way a couple of times.


However, Batman's greatest asset is his tactical genius, I can't see him defeating Supes physicially, but outsmarting him to a draw, or even making Supes retreat - now that Batman can definitely do !

Hopefully that's a route that Snyder goes, because as an audience we can pretty quickly accept that Bats is smarter, IMO of course.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

A purely physical fight.....no. Superman has stood up to some pretty heavy weapons fire from the military, got hit by a train that was thrown at him, and traded blows with foes with comparable strength and invulnerability, and came out on top. What's Batman got to cope with that ? Unless kryptonite shows up, not a lot. Of course if Bats can weaken Supes with kryptonite or some other device to make them physically equal (as in bring Supes down to his level) then of course Bats is the better fighter by miles.

Even in Miller's DKR, everything Batman hit Superman with was just a distraction to set him up for the Kryptonite. And, to be honest, Superman wasn't really trying all that hard, his heart clearly wasn't in it. In fact he takes a bunch of shots from Batman, because he's trying to talk Bruce down.

The other thing is that Superman is often portrayed as not using his powers
very effectively, super-speed being the worst, it's almost as if he forgets he has it. But once in a while, a writer finds it convenient to remember that advantage, and pow ! Superman wipes out some big nasty, I've seen him squash Monghul that way a couple of times.


However, Batman's greatest asset is his tactical genius, I can't see him defeating Supes physicially, but outsmarting him to a draw, or even making Supes retreat - now that Batman can definitely do !

Hopefully that's a route that Snyder goes, because as an audience we can pretty quickly accept that Bats is smarter, IMO of course.

Yes, finally! So many on these boards are too close-minded to allow themselves to believe that there's any situation in which Bats could pose a threat to Supes.

I think it's likely we'll see him use his tactical genius to turn the odds in his favor using distraction and using Clark's boyscout-ness against him, and I think it's very likely we'll see Kryptonite, in some form.

This is the true challenge of the creative team behind this film: how do you appease both fanbases without alienating the other? Many don't want to believe it, but in a movie titled Batman V Superman, there will be a physical fight and, IMO, this is the way to go about it.

(Before anyone brings up that the "V" signifies an idealogical battle, I expect this too, but with that title, GA and fans alike will expect a fight.)

 

[N7 Joseph Shepard]

The answer to the title of this topic....no, it will never be a "fair physical fight". Either one or the other will have an advantage over the other. Either Superman will just over power Batman due his his natural abilities or Batman will weaken Superman to a point where Supes can't even defend himself (in my opinion, that's cheating).

 

[CGNefarious]

First I want to say that I absolutely love Batman. He is my second favorite superhero of all time (previously my first) and I most definitely want to see justice done to the character in this film.

Having said that, I really dislike the idea of the Batgod. Yes, Bruce is a genius. Yes, he is quite literally the world's greatest detective. Yes, as far as fighting skill goes he's in the top five worldwide. In a fair fight he should be able to take on any human, most with ease, and he should have the ability to plan things out a bit due to his intelligence. But when you make him this god that can take on beings like Superman and Martian Manhunter you trivialize his own conflicts against his normal nemeses. Do you really believe that a guy who can take down Superman would have any problem whatsoever with Bane? It makes no sense.

I know writers have depicted them all differently throughout the years, I feel Batman's true place should be at the top of humanity, not at the top of all beings. He doesn't have to be the Batgod to be a valuable asset to the Justice League. Don't get me wrong, he definitely has to be more powerful than the Nolan version of Batman, and I have no doubt that Snyder will deliver that, but I hope it is not the "I have a plan for literally everything, and things always go according to my plans" version. I just find that version incredibly cheap and a bit disrespectful to the character. Let him be a bad*** on his own and stop giving him cheesy Light Yagami-esque powers.

That's my opinion anyway. As long as the inevitable fight is awesome and does not demean either character, I will be happy.

 

[Infinity9999x]

First I want to say that I absolutely love Batman. He is my second favorite superhero of all time (previously my first) and I most definitely want to see justice done to the character in this film.

Having said that, I really dislike the idea of the Batgod. Yes, Bruce is a genius. Yes, he is quite literally the world's greatest detective. Yes, as far as skill goes he's in the top five worldwide. In a fair fight he should be able to take on any human, most with ease, and he should have the ability to plan things out a bit due to his intelligence. But when you make him this god that can take of beings like Superman and Martian Manhunter you trivialize his own conflicts against his normal nemeses. Do you really believe that a guy who can take down Superman would have any problem whatsoever with Bane? It makes no sense.

I know writers have depicted them all differently throughout the years, I feel Batman's true place should be at the top of humanity, not at the top of all beings. He doesn't have to be the Batgod to be a valuable asset to the Justice League. Don't get me wrong, he definitely has to be more powerful than the Nolan version of Batman, and I have no doubt that Snyder will deliver that, but I hope it is not the "I have a plan for literally everything, and things always go according to my plans" version. I just find that version incredibly cheap and a bit disrespectful to the character. Let him be a bad*** on his own and stop giving him cheesy Light Yagami-esque powers.

That's my opinion anyway. As long as the inevitable fight is awesome and does not demean either character, I will be happy.

Agreed 100% I'm a Batfan much more than I am a Supes fan, but if Superman really wanted to kill Batman...he would. In my mind, the only reason their "fights" have ever been close is because Clark is ALWAYS holding back.

 

[113]

First I want to say that I absolutely love Batman. He is my second favorite superhero of all time (previously my first) and I most definitely want to see justice done to the character in this film.

Having said that, I really dislike the idea of the Batgod. Yes, Bruce is a genius. Yes, he is quite literally the world's greatest detective. Yes, as far as skill goes he's in the top five worldwide. In a fair fight he should be able to take on any human, most with ease, and he should have the ability to plan things out a bit due to his intelligence. But when you make him this god that can take of beings like Superman and Martian Manhunter you trivialize his own conflicts against his normal nemeses. Do you really believe that a guy who can take down Superman would have any problem whatsoever with Bane? It makes no sense.

I know writers have depicted them all differently throughout the years, I feel Batman's true place should be at the top of humanity, not at the top of all beings. He doesn't have to be the Batgod to be a valuable asset to the Justice League. Don't get me wrong, he definitely has to be more powerful than the Nolan version of Batman, and I have no doubt that Snyder will deliver that, but I hope it is not the "I have a plan for literally everything, and things always go according to my plans" version. I just find that version incredibly cheap and a bit disrespectful to the character. Let him be a bad*** on his own and stop giving him cheesy Light Yagami-esque powers.

That's my opinion anyway. As long as the inevitable fight is awesome and does not demean either character, I will be happy.

Thank you. I wish more Batfans had this attitude. I just hope Snyder shares that attitude instead of the Miller attitude.

 

[Bruce Malone]

I think it leaked from the teaser description that Batman is going to be in his DKR battle armor in the film.

 

[CGNefarious]

If done well a battle suit could make for an interesting battle. I just hope Snyder doesn't go full on Miller with it. I enjoyed the the animated film, but god that entire battle was stupid. The only good thing to come out of it was the "I want you to remember" line, though for me it will always be tainted by the memory of that fight.

 

[Mr. Finger]

First I want to say that I absolutely love Batman. He is my second favorite superhero of all time (previously my first) and I most definitely want to see justice done to the character in this film.

Having said that, I really dislike the idea of the Batgod. Yes, Bruce is a genius. Yes, he is quite literally the world's greatest detective. Yes, as far as fighting skill goes he's in the top five worldwide. In a fair fight he should be able to take on any human, most with ease, and he should have the ability to plan things out a bit due to his intelligence. But when you make him this god that can take on beings like Superman and Martian Manhunter you trivialize his own conflicts against his normal nemeses. Do you really believe that a guy who can take down Superman would have any problem whatsoever with Bane? It makes no sense.

I know writers have depicted them all differently throughout the years, I feel Batman's true place should be at the top of humanity, not at the top of all beings. He doesn't have to be the Batgod to be a valuable asset to the Justice League. Don't get me wrong, he definitely has to be more powerful than the Nolan version of Batman, and I have no doubt that Snyder will deliver that, but I hope it is not the "I have a plan for literally everything, and things always go according to my plans" version. I just find that version incredibly cheap and a bit disrespectful to the character. Let him be a bad*** on his own and stop giving him cheesy Light Yagami-esque powers.

That's my opinion anyway. As long as the inevitable fight is awesome and does not demean either character, I will be happy.

Here, here.. Well said.

 

[storyteller]

Batman can't beat Superman. Even his most famous win is a very one sided fight.

All Batman can do is survive long enough to get Supes to come to his senses or fight a pointless battle.

 

[InspecktahDeck]

I'm surprised people even count TDKReturns or Hush as wins for Batman.

Let's put it this way -

If Batman knows of a way to depower Superman through Kryptonite, Red Sun Lamps, etc whatever, and Superman isn't aware these things exist or will have an adverse effect on him, then Batman might have him.

BUT that's if they instantly depower him, or have a gradual effect over a long period of time. If it's not quick, then Superman's gonna have Batman beat.

If Superman DOES know about these things, being a reporter and a guy with common sense, he's not going to come near these things and probably take them out from far away. I'm not going to say he'd laser Batman from space because he wouldn't do that, but he could sure as hell laser Batman's kryptonite ring or red sun lamps, etc.

Didn't Snyder himself say that Batman winning any kind of physical confrontation in this would be stupid?


How about instead of figuring out a reason to fight for two characters who are good at heart, and smart enough to figure out eachother are just looking to do the right thing, we just stop using tired ass cliches of "Two heroes meet and fight eachother for some stupid reason before teaming up" and just have them team up and face a common threat to save the day instead of relying on forced drama.

 

[smallville fan]

First I want to say that I absolutely love Batman. He is my second favorite superhero of all time (previously my first) and I most definitely want to see justice done to the character in this film.

Having said that, I really dislike the idea of the Batgod. Yes, Bruce is a genius. Yes, he is quite literally the world's greatest detective. Yes, as far as fighting skill goes he's in the top five worldwide. In a fair fight he should be able to take on any human, most with ease, and he should have the ability to plan things out a bit due to his intelligence. But when you make him this god that can take on beings like Superman and Martian Manhunter you trivialize his own conflicts against his normal nemeses. Do you really believe that a guy who can take down Superman would have any problem whatsoever with Bane? It makes no sense.

I know writers have depicted them all differently throughout the years, I feel Batman's true place should be at the top of humanity, not at the top of all beings. He doesn't have to be the Batgod to be a valuable asset to the Justice League. Don't get me wrong, he definitely has to be more powerful than the Nolan version of Batman, and I have no doubt that Snyder will deliver that, but I hope it is not the "I have a plan for literally everything, and things always go according to my plans" version. I just find that version incredibly cheap and a bit disrespectful to the character. Let him be a bad*** on his own and stop giving him cheesy Light Yagami-esque powers.

That's my opinion anyway. As long as the inevitable fight is awesome and does not demean either character, I will be happy.

Why can't there be more Batfans like you?

I'm surprised people even count TDKReturns or Hush as wins for Batman.

Let's put it this way -

If Batman knows of a way to depower Superman through Kryptonite, Red Sun Lamps, etc whatever, and Superman isn't aware these things exist or will have an adverse effect on him, then Batman might have him.

BUT that's if they instantly depower him, or have a gradual effect over a long period of time. If it's not quick, then Superman's gonna have Batman beat.

If Superman DOES know about these things, being a reporter and a guy with common sense, he's not going to come near these things and probably take them out from far away. I'm not going to say he'd laser Batman from space because he wouldn't do that, but he could sure as hell laser Batman's kryptonite ring or red sun lamps, etc.

Didn't Snyder himself say that Batman winning any kind of physical confrontation in this would be stupid?


How about instead of figuring out a reason to fight for two characters who are good at heart, and smart enough to figure out each other are just looking to do the right thing, we just stop using tired ass cliches of "Two heroes meet and fight each other for some stupid reason before teaming up" and just have them team up and face a common threat to save the day instead of relying on forced drama.

I agree. Regarding the points about TDKReturns and Hush being wins for Batman, I'm going to leave this video here:

[YT]7gjySvkabZI[/YT]

It was actually David Goyer who said that Batman can't beat Superman in a fight.

Snyder did actually mention that they would team up for a bit.

 

[CGNefarious]

How about instead of figuring out a reason to fight for two characters who are good at heart, and smart enough to figure out eachother are just looking to do the right thing, we just stop using tired ass cliches of "Two heroes meet and fight eachother for some stupid reason before teaming up" and just have them team up and face a common threat to save the day instead of relying on forced drama.

As much as I would have prefered that, it isn't going to happen. And let's be honest, with Snyder at the helm of this, the confrontation between these two has the potential to be freaking awesome.

Snyder is a smart guy, so I have faith this will turn out well. Besides, there is a whole lot of talent working on this film. It's far too early to be sure, but so far Snyder has given me absolutely no reason to doubt him in this project. I thoroughly enjoyed Man of Steel, and both Ben and Gal look phenomenal in their new costumes. I'm pretty excited to see what the future brings with this franchise.

 

[AnneFan]

All Batman can do is survive long enough to get Supes to come to his senses or fight a pointless battle.

Superman thinking it will be simple and quick encounter could be his undoing. I think that's what will happen. Supe will come in fast and loud, but underestimates the threat before him, and the situation quickly escalates.

 

[michael1975]

I'll be honest I don't see them having these two characters have a knock down dredged out fight. I think they will have some sort of bout and both characters will get some good licks in. However I think that something will happen and there attention will be turned away from one another and toward a common threat.

While these are comic book characters that is being adapted in to a movie. They don't want to make a movie with two heroes going to war with one another and having one win over the other.

This movie is supposed to be the start to a Justice League film. So while these two characters first meeting might start off on shaky ground I think that a common enemy will bring them together and forge the way for Justice League.

 

[Batmannerism]

Yes, finally! So many on these boards are too close-minded to allow themselves to believe that there's any situation in which Bats could pose a threat to Supes.

I think it's likely we'll see him use his tactical genius to turn the odds in his favor using distraction and using Clark's boyscout-ness against him, and I think it's very likely we'll see Kryptonite, in some form.

This is the true challenge of the creative team behind this film: how do you appease both fanbases without alienating the other? Many don't want to believe it, but in a movie titled Batman V Superman, there will be a physical fight and, IMO, this is the way to go about it.

(Before anyone brings up that the "V" signifies an idealogical battle, I expect this too, but with that title, GA and fans alike will expect a fight.)

I think you hit the nail on the head, keeping both fanbases on board
is the real challenge. I think it will have to be a draw to keep everyone on side, but then, that's going to make sense. Batman's tactical skills are what make him so dangerous. My favourite Batman/Superman confrontation was a draw, way back in the 80's in the Man of Steel series, where Batman keeps Supes at bay with a explosive that will kill an innocent if Supes touches him .......of course the innocent is Batman.
So yeah, I'm pulling for a draw !

Having said that, I really dislike the idea of the Batgod. Yes, Bruce is a genius. Yes, he is quite literally the world's greatest detective. Yes, as far as fighting skill goes he's in the top five worldwide. In a fair fight he should be able to take on any human, most with ease, and he should have the ability to plan things out a bit due to his intelligence. But when you make him this god that can take on beings like Superman and Martian Manhunter you trivialize his own conflicts against his normal nemeses. Do you really believe that a guy who can take down Superman would have any problem whatsoever with Bane? It makes no sense.

I think this is a fair comment, but I kind of disagree. First, those godlike beings that Batman dispatches he does so by utilizing their own weaknesses (which isn't hard to do with Manhunter, Bats takes out a bunch of White Martians in Morrisons JLA with a can of gas and a box of matches) and their overconfidence that comes from being so powerful - or in Superman's case, his reluctance to hurt Batman, and fear of really cutting loose.

As far as "Batgod" goes, well, there's a big difference in playing Superman for a chump (who's never actually trying to kill or even seriously hurt Batman) and Bane, who waged a systematic campaign (in Knightfall) to weaken Batman to the point where he was so demoiralized and exhausted that Bane could defeat him. Big difference, Supes is never out to really hurt Bats, which makes him highly vulnerable to Batman's stratagems.
Bane was out to utterly destroy Batman, and is portrayed in the comics as a genius and Batman's physical superior.

It's the difference between having a playfight with your older brother who doesn't want to hurt you, and a fight to the death with a really nasty kid from the world's toughest neighbourhood, after fighting a bunch of his friends.

I don't see Batman as a "Batgod" more of a "Giant Killer" , who on his best days can take down even the most powerful. Of course he needs tremendous planning to do so - in the TDKReturns fight, like I said before,
everything was a distraction to prevent Superman noticing the Kryptonite, until it was too late).

If Superman ever decided "Today's the day I destroy Batman" and took some time to plan, and scope out the Batcave with his super-senses, then didn't hold back (like dropped a meteor on it, for an opening move) or attacked Batman by surprise. Well, in those circumstances I think it's safe to say that Batman would be in serious trouble.


BTW, just out of interest, in terms of " v " in Common Law jurisdictions,
like Canada, the UK, Australia, and here in NZ, the " v " in a case name
is read aloud as "and " so R v Smith is read as The Queen and Smith ( R being legal short form for the Queen).

Maybe in that way, it's Batman and Superman. Let's hope so.

 

[batman1]

Batman whipped him in the comics and the movies have been doing real life portrayals of the mvoies. SO I say it's at least a draw and then Lex interferes or something. It will show Kal-El being vunerable at least for a minute. That's the point of introducing Batman.