BvS Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

[DareDemon]

I always thought that the terraforming machines just created Kryptonite in their locations. I thought that would this universe's origin of Kryptonite to be exploited later. Surely they're not just gonna never have it?

I also think they will fight at some point in the movie. They called the movie "Batman vs. Superman" years ago, that link used from TDKR at comic-con, etc.

I also think its wrong for people to say "Superman would throw him into the sun" or "Superman would incinerate him with heat vision" or "Superman would rip his head off". Makes me wonder if the people who say that even know who Superman is. He would never do that to a regular human. Yes, he broke Zod's neck, but he was just as strong as Supes and about to kill a family with children. 4 lives>1 life. It was necessary. Killing Batman to save himself is not something he'd do.

In the Batman vs. Superman fight, or fights, it will end up either being even or Batman will win. I think those are the only options because Superman winning seems to easy and obvious. He's cool because of how powerful he is. The "unexpected" outcome would be a regular human beating this unstoppable alien. It would also show Batman doing the first Batgod action in a movie.

Im not saying I think Batman SHOULD win, but I think if its not a draw Batman WILL win. Which I'm fine with, they've each won fights against each other multiple times in the past.

 

[DareDemon]

Also, I don't think Batman exploiting Kryptonite or Superman's psychology is cheating anymore than Superman using his powers is. It'll still be extremely difficult to stand toe to toe with Superman even if Batman was a wizard with Kryptonite.

Superman beating Batman is easy, Batman beating Superman is hard. That's why I think Batman will win.

 

[Nathan]

I always thought that the terraforming machines just created Kryptonite in their locations. I thought that would this universe's origin of Kryptonite to be exploited later. Surely they're not just gonna never have it?

I'd rather prefer they give us legitimate threats, without the need to fall back on Kryptonite. Superman has such a rich rogues gallery. Kryptonite is simply unneeded.

I also think they will fight at some point in the movie. They called the movie "Batman vs. Superman" years ago, that link used from TDKR at comic-con, etc.

I also think its wrong for people to say "Superman would throw him into the sun" or "Superman would incinerate him with heat vision" or "Superman would rip his head off". Makes me wonder if the people who say that even know who Superman is. He would never do that to a regular human. Yes, he broke Zod's neck, but he was just as strong as Supes and about to kill a family with children. 4 lives>1 life. It was necessary. Killing Batman to save himself is not something he'd do.

Here's the thing, he needs to do nothing of that. All that is needed is one well placed hit, and Batman is k.o.. Superman knocks out normal people regularly. But of course the Bat-God is immune to knock outs and they have to drag the battle out.

In the Batman vs. Superman fight, or fights, it will end up either being even or Batman will win. I think those are the only options because Superman winning seems to easy and obvious. He's cool because of how powerful he is. The "unexpected" outcome would be a regular human beating this unstoppable alien. It would also show Batman doing the first Batgod action in a movie.

Except, it's not unexpected anymore. Heck, after the line at comic con, I'm pretty sure everyone expects Batman to beat Superman. I'm pretty sure even before that line, people were expecting Batman to somehow beat Superman. The unexpected thing would be to actually have Superman trash Batman like it's nothing. And trying to beat it into Bat's thick and arrogant skull, that he is not an enemy.

Im not saying I think Batman SHOULD win, but I think if its not a draw Batman WILL win. Which I'm fine with, they've each won against fights against each other multiple times in the past.

If we believe Joe's knowledge of DC lore, Batman ever only beat Superman in Elseworld Tales, like Red Son or The Dark Knight Returns. Throughout the main canon Universe, they never had Batman actually beat Superman.

 

[The Riddler]

I'd rather prefer they give us legitimate threats, without the need to fall back on Kryptonite. Superman has such a rich rogues gallery. Kryptonite is simply unneeded.

Here's the thing, he needs to do nothing of that. All that is needed is one well placed hit, and Batman is k.o.. Superman knocks out normal people regularly. But of course the Bat-God is immune to knock outs and they have to drag the battle out.

Except, it's not unexpected anymore. Heck, after the line at comic con, I'm pretty sure everyone expects Batman to beat Superman. I'm pretty sure even before that line, people were expecting Batman to somehow beat Superman. The unexpected thing would be to actually have Superman trash Batman like it's nothing. And trying to beat it into Bat's thick and arrogant skull, that he is not an enemy.

If we believe Joe's knowledge of DC lore, Batman ever only beat Superman in Elseworld Tales, like Red Son or The Dark Knight Returns. Throughout the main canon Universe, they never had Batman actually beat Superman.

it's pretty obvious the two are going to fight, and it's also pretty obvious one is not going to easily beat the other.

also, i'm almost certain kryptonite will be introduced. it's part of superman's story and they need to introduce it so batman can hurt superman.

 

[DareDemon]

I'd rather prefer they give us legitimate threats, without the need to fall back on Kryptonite. Superman has such a rich rogues gallery. Kryptonite is simply unneeded.



Here's the thing, he needs to do nothing of that. All that is needed is one well placed hit, and Batman is k.o.. Superman knocks out normal people regularly. But of course the Bat-God is immune to knock outs and they have to drag the battle out.



Except, it's not unexpected anymore. Heck, after the line at comic con, I'm pretty sure everyone expects Batman to beat Superman. I'm pretty sure even before that line, people were expecting Batman to somehow beat Superman. The unexpected thing would be to actually have Superman trash Batman like it's nothing. And trying to beat it into Bat's thick and arrogant skull, that he is not an enemy.



If we believe Joe's knowledge of DC lore, Batman ever only beat Superman in Elseworld Tales, like Red Son or The Dark Knight Returns. Throughout the main canon Universe, they never had Batman actually beat Superman.

First paragraph: yes Superman's villains are good enough as is (Metallo should probably still have a Kryptonite power source though), but I was talking about Batman

Second: yes, he could hypothetically knock him out if Superman feels that such force is needed. But since this is Superman vs Batman, I doubt Batman will let him know "hey I'm about to attack you" or seem to be such a threat until its too late. I don't think Superman is the type to knock a human unconscious unless he needs to.

Third: I agree Batman may come across as arrogant, etc. And maybe people are expecting Batman to win. It's still amazing to see a normal human beat up what is essentially a god comparatively. People root for the underdog.

Four: it sounds like you're agreeing with me here. These movies will also not be in the mainstream universe.

I still think the fight will be a draw or Batman wins. I wouldn't think they'd want either character to "lose" but if one did I'm predicting Superman would lose and Batman gets his $41t rocked almost accidentally by Supes. How satisfying of a fight would it be if Superman knocks him out quicker than a human nervous system could process it? They're not going to make it that easy, or at least not the only fight.

 

[Shikamaru]

I find the whole "Superman can easily rip Batman's head off because Batman has no powers" argument to be a bit odd. That is not how a fight between them would work out. Batman is not an idiot. He would not walk up to Superman and just start throwing fists at him, even with Kryptonite. A legitimate fight between them with no PIS involved would not be handled that way.

Before getting into a fight with him, there are several variables Batman would study. Those factors range from the area the fight would take place in to the study of Superman's psychology for a mental/emotional weakness he can exploit to a physical weakness to giving Superman a reason as to why hitting him in the first place would be bad (i.e. "I injected Lois with a virus that would kill her instantly if your fists come in contact with my body" - really stupid example but you get my point), etc. Bruce is nowhere as strong as Clark but he is just as dangerous as he is for entirely different reasons.

I always found the argument that one is stronger than the other to be a bit stupid. I do sometimes joke around that Batman can easily beat Superman with both hands tied but I never seriously mean that. In my mind, both characters have to be equal. I have two reasons for this. First, Batman was originally created to be the yang to Superman's ying. Bill Finger and Bob Kane set out to create a character that was the complete polar opposite of Superman. That meant that whatever Superman was, Batman wasn't that and whatever Batman was, Superman wasn't that. Whatever Superman can do, Batman can't. Whatever Batman can do, Superman can't. Each character represents one side of the coin and essentially complete each other. Second, Superman and Batman being equal is a major thematic element of the DC universe. The concept behind them is that Superman is the force that strikes hope into good people while Batman is the force that strikes fear into bad people. This brings a balance (thematically speaking) to the DC universe. What happens when the force that strikes hope into good people is not as powerful as the force that strikes fear into bad people? People that lack hope eventually fall into a form of depression, which leads to insanity and to more evil. What happens when the force that strikes fear into bad people is not as powerful as the force that strikes hope into good people? The evil sprung from bad people interferes with the hopes and dreams of good people.

 

[Nathan]

I can only hope that they'll treat it like Marvel's Hulk vs Thor fight and don't actually give us a clear winner. As much as I want Batman to be competent, I just hate Bat-God. The encounter should be entertaining, but ultimately Batman shouldn't even come close to beating Superman. Especially when it's their first encounter.

 

[hafizbat]

I find the whole "Superman can easily rip Batman's head off because Batman has no powers" argument to be a bit odd. That is not how a fight between them would work out. Batman is not an idiot. He would not walk up to Superman and just start throwing fists at him, even with Kryptonite. A legitimate fight between them with no PIS involved would not be handled that way.

Before getting into a fight with him, there are several variables Batman would study. Those factors range from the area the fight would take place in to the study of Superman's psychology for a mental/emotional weakness he can exploit to a physical weakness to giving Superman a reason as to why hitting him in the first place would be bad (i.e. "I injected Lois with a virus that would kill her instantly if your fists come in contact with my body" - really stupid example but you get my point), etc. Bruce is nowhere as strong as Clark but he is just as dangerous as he is for entirely different reasons.

I always found the argument that one is stronger than the other to be a bit stupid. I do sometimes joke around that Batman can easily beat Superman with both hands tied but I never seriously mean that. In my mind, both characters have to be equal. I have two reasons for this. First, Batman was originally created to be the yang to Superman's ying. Bill Finger and Bob Kane set out to create a character that was the complete polar opposite of Superman. That meant that whatever Superman was, Batman wasn't that and whatever Batman was, Superman wasn't that. Whatever Superman can do, Batman can't. Whatever Batman can do, Superman can't. Each character represents one side of the coin and essentially complete each other. Second, Superman and Batman being equal is a major thematic element of the DC universe. The concept behind them is that Superman is the force that strikes hope into good people while Batman is the force that strikes fear into bad people. This brings a balance (thematically speaking) to the DC universe. What happens when the force that strikes hope into good people is not as powerful as the force that strikes fear into bad people? People that lack hope eventually fall into a form of depression, which leads to insanity and to more evil. What happens when the force that strikes fear into bad people is not as powerful as the force that strikes hope into good people? The evil sprung from bad people interferes with the hopes and dreams of good people.

Great post I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Gianakin_]

I want to make this clear: I don't think Superman needs to be mind-controlled for a fight to happen. I just think that one or both of them being compromised, either emotionally or mentally in some way, is a better way to handle it than Marvel-style disfunctionalism. Both heroes are more emotionally mature than Tony Stark and at least in the MOS universe are already well aware of potential backlash to their actions.

A compromised Batman or Superman allows for more aggression and hotheaded actions on their parts. Now, it could be Bruce who's been compromised; a little paranoia increase or low level brain control could justify a nastier Batman. They could incorporate both Miller's monologue about being the only man to beat Superman with Loeb's idea of Batman not being as good a person as Superman underneath everything.

If they're going to fight without any kind of compromising of the heroes, then I want a slow burn and a clear objective beyond them defeating the other. Maybe Batman wants to destroy Brainiac or something while Superman wants to subdue him. Something where the fight can end with both still standing.

Of course, I don't need the to fight at all. It's just been implied they will by the announcement.

Fair enough then.

 

[Gianakin_]

There is no way for Batman to know how Kryptonian's atmosphere is like

Hey, fans have been *****ing about a super-duper-uber smart Batman since 2005.

 

[Shikamaru]

Hey, fans have been *****ing about a super-duper-uber smart Batman since 2005.

Since Batman's inception, actually. There has yet to be a "super-duper-uber smart" Batman on the big screen on the same level as the Batman we know from the comics.

 

[Gianakin_]

And I hope it stays that way.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

]has things planned (every scenario), uses his environment to his advantage right away (no open spaces), cuts the lights, etc, etc, tons of gadgets (shield to defend against heat vision), and eventually manages to land a few blows on Supes with kryptonite weapons / kryptonite suit.

I'd like it though if there was a second scenario where Supes manages to catch Bruce in a chokehold, and has the clear opportunity to fry his brain, but refrains, showing Bruce that he can be trusted.

 

[super85]

Batman in the comics is a briliant thinker, so I truly hope they show us that.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

My issue with Batman is that the writers try to make him seem invincible. He has no powers, so he highly depends on his detective skills to fight crime. However, there is a point where he might as well have super powers. Suddenly he is able to fight Superman? I want to see a weakened Batman who is vulnerable and is getting beaten down. I hate the excuse fans give to explain what Batman can do. For example:

Q: How did Batman get from Bane's prison all the way back to Gotham in TDKR?
A: Um... HE'S BATMAN!
Q: You didn't answer my question.
A: It doesn't matter, because... HE'S BATMAN!
Q: And are we really supposed to believe that he is the only one, excluding a child, that could climb out of the prison?
A: Yes. Because he is BATMAN!

Oh, yeah, these make Batman sound annoying instead of awesome

I liked what they'd on the Smallville comic

Spoiler

This fight is pretty decent, and quite cool
How did Batman know a weakness Superman didn't know about himself? Trial and error?

Hey, fans have been *****ing about a super-duper-uber smart Batman since 2005.

Makes me glad the adapted Bane knowing Bruce and damaging his back in TDKR

 

[gohei_]

I liked what they'd on the Smallville comic

Spoiler

Oh wow, that art is pretty bad. But the fight was cool.

 

[Gianakin_]

Somehow I can't bring myself to picture Tom's Superman doing and saying all that cool stuff.

 

[BH/HHH]

This fight is pretty decent, and quite cool
How did Batman know a weakness Superman didn't know about himself? Trial and error?

I think there's actually more to the fight but I'd have to dig the issue out.

You know I really can't remember how he knows or if its just something he suspects.

 

[super85]

In the Smallville show he would stop in mid fight and start talking about the doubts that he has about himself. And then hang out in the barn for another 8 years and fight crime while wearing flannel.

 

[Gianakin_]

And somehow manage to stuff the line "Lana?!" in there.

 

[BH/HHH]

Ahh come on guys it was a TV show that had an audience hence the reason it lasted 10 years. It was promoted as a drama show remember that stuff had to be in there for the demographic.

 

[Gianakin_]

Don't get me wrong, I own all DVDs and I enjoyed it for what it was. But it was full of inadvertedly funny stuff like that.

 

[Gamingboy]

No. Of course not. Without Kryptonite or some other equalizer (for example, during the DKR fight Superman had also recently been nuked and a small-scale nuclear winter had greatly decreased the amount of sunlight Superman was getting), Batman stands no chance in a actual fight.

Therefore, the fight between the two (which I figure would come near the middle of the movie, with the climax being a team-up against Lex or whoever) would either have such a equalizer like Kryptonite (I liked that idea of the World Engine creating Kryptonite on Earth, BTW) or it would be more of a battle of wits and wills until they both realize they are being played. Perhaps it would end with Superman having basically defeated Batman with a light tap and then Batman would say some sort of thing that makes total sense and makes them realize how foolish they are being, or something.

 

[BH/HHH]

I see it more as less a fight between the two than one on three, Superman vs Batman, Robin & Green Arrow. Gotta give Miller one thing though he did everything to try to make it not so ridiculous by having Bats & co, Green K, the Bat-tank and a weakened Superman so it wouldn't look stupid if Batman won.

 

[Skrilla31]

Batman would never even make himself known to Superman until he's done his research and discovered a way to beat him.

That's kind of what makes Batman, Batman. He's always prepared.