The Dark Knight Batman's Theme Music in TDK

[CConn]

I really don't see how this is even an argument. This is Nolan's vision, and obviously (and correctly) he has no intentions of recycling a theme to a movie vastly different from his own.

BB has a very unique and different kind of score. It's more mood than thematic, more vague than definite. Just like BB was. B89 shows a Batman that is already operating, so his theme is in place. It would be very odd for them to have Elfman's heroic and epic theme to be blaring when Batman makes his first appearance at the docks. That scene is purely building, where it creates a tension and fills in with mood and atmosphere, just as the score underlines. Having a heroic score would rob the scene of that, and it would be a distraction in itself.

Um, I said nothing of interjecting B89's score into that particular scene. And I never disagreed that B89's score wouldn't fit with BB. All I ever said was that the argument that that particular theme should be kept away from BB PURELY because it wasn't connected continually to BB was illogical.

Stop rushing to defend and legitimize BB at every turn and just look at things how they are. 'Least, that's what I do.

 

[SolidSnakeMGS]

don't rely on music to make me feel sad.

Uh, many filmmakers rely on music to underline or convey an emotion. It's almost the purpose of a film score.

When Luke burns the remains of Vader on Endor, would we have felt the same resonance if that tremendous music wasn't playing?

 

[CConn]

No, i meant ethical. Morally, it's the right thing to do. Onnly a sleaze bag with no morals with keep the same theme for two, entirely different movies!

...wow. That makes utterly no sense.

As long as the original composure didn't have a problem with his theme being used in the other film, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Further more, it's hardly in your right to pronounce what's ethically just when scoring films. If ethics even play a part in the process.

 

[Cycloptis]

Zimmer/Howard actually WROTE a "theme" for Batman in "Begins," but it was never used in the film. I have it on CD, and it came from a disc called the "Batman Begins Promo" or something, a free marketing tool that I suppose was going to promote the new score (or maybe just the film.) One of the songs is entitled "Batman Begins Main Titles," and is simply awesome. Never heard it once in the film, though.

If it's "legal," I can upload it so everyone can take a listen (can't imagine why it wouldn't be - it was a free promotion, of sorts.)

Anyway, I hope it's the same theme he uses in "TDK." If you heard it, you'd know why.

Is that theme by chance the one at the end of the BB credits? It's similar to Molossus in some ways.

 

[sasquatchs]

Uh, many filmmakers rely on music to underline or convey an emotion. It's almost the purpose of a film score.

When Luke burns the remains of Vader on Endor, would we have felt the same resonance if that tremendous music wasn't playing?

No decent film-maker relys on music to do the job by itself, its there to subtly enhance it, not overwhelm everything else

 

[sglass03]

Well, YouTube isn't working for me anyway right now. So here's the file courtesy of MegaUpload:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0HOYLSL0

Like I said, this is the unused "Batman Begins" theme by Zimmer/Howard that was on a free promotion disc. Hopefully, it becomes the TDK theme - I think it's, quite frankly, excellent.

 

[CConn]

That was just down to the music being unimaginative, having a theme wouldn't solve anything

Now see, personally I like BB's score. If there had been some form of memorable theme, I'd have absolutely no problem with it.

 

[Merkel]

Uh, many filmmakers rely on music to underline or convey an emotion. It's almost the purpose of a film score.

When Luke burns the remains of Vader on Endor, would we have felt the same resonance if that tremendous music wasn't playing?

That is indeed tremendous music. The unused portion of that track is also truly goosebump inducing.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Howard isn't returning, is he?

It's just Zimmer this time.

 

[Merkel]

Howard is returning, Zimmer hinted at it in a soundtrack.net interview.

 

[peteagassi]

Batman Begins is a better film than Batman 89. The critics are evidence. And finally, I SAY FINALLY! WE GOT A BATMAN FILM, WITH BEGINS! YES! A BATMAN FILM ABOUT BATMAN: THE GUY WITH THE BLACK CAPE> Batman 89 was all About the Pilsbury Dough boy in clown make up...I mean Jack Nicholson as Joker. He had more screen time than Batman. That's just not right; that made it a weaker film than Begins. IMO!

 

[CConn]

Batman Begins is a better film than Batman 89. The critics are evidence. And finally, I SAY FINALLY! WE GOT A BATMAN FILM, WITH BEGINS! YES! A BATMAN FILM ABOUT BATMAN: THE GUY WITH THE BLACK CAPE> Batman 89 was all About the Pilsbury Dough boy in clown make up...I mean Jack Nicholson as Joker. He had more screen time than Batman. That's just not right; that made it a weaker film than Begins. IMO!

That doesn't even have anything to do with what anyone is talking about.

 

[SolidSnakeMGS]

Um, I said nothing of interjecting B89's score into that particular scene. And I never disagreed that B89's score wouldn't fit with BB. All I ever said was that the argument that that particular theme should be kept away from BB PURELY because it wasn't connected continually to BB was illogical.

Stop rushing to defend and legitimize BB at every turn and just look at things how they are. 'Least, that's what I do.

So you're saying what? I'm not clear. That they could use certain parts of B89's score for certain scenes?

Wouldn't it confuse people to hear a theme from a previous, unrelated incarnation of a source material? THAT'S why the Elfman theme shouldn't come anywhere close to BB's score.

And I only "rush" to "defend and legitimize" something when it makes sense to do so. I have no need to raise BB on a pedestal when I already place it there. I am defending Nolan because I feel he made the right decision.

 

[peteagassi]

Do you have to have a megaupload account???

 

[Agentsands77]

Well, YouTube isn't working for me anyway right now. So here's the file courtesy of MegaUpload:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0HOYLSL0

Like I said, this is the unused "Batman Begins" theme by Zimmer/Howard that was on a free promotion disc. Hopefully, it becomes the TDK theme - I think it's, quite frankly, excellent.

This isn't the unused BEGINS theme. This was a piece of music written for trailers by another group. It's been passed around as the unused BEGINS theme forever, but it's not correct.

From what I understand, the BEGINS Batman theme is the one that shows up in the end credits, but not really in the rest of the score.

 

[sglass03]

Nope, no account needed. You do have to wait a minute, though, for that "timer" to count down. After that, you can freely download it.

 

[Juanigi]

unless it's a different track I'm thinking of, it was unused for a reason

yeah I was right it stinks pretty bad as a batman theme

 

[SolidSnakeMGS]

No decent film-maker relys on music to do the job by itself, its there to subtly enhance it, not overwhelm everything else

That isn't what I meant. If a filmmaker relied on music solely, we wouldn't have visuals! But music plays a larger part than I think you give it credit for.

 

[sglass03]

This isn't the unused BEGINS theme. This was a piece of music written for trailers. It's been passed around as the unused BEGINS theme forever, but it's not correct.

From what I understand, the BEGINS Batman theme is the one that shows up in the end credits, but not really in the rest of the score.

You may be correct, I have no idea. All I know is that it was entitled "Batman Begins Titles Theme," which of course, never came to pass, as it wasn't used in the titles. Many (including Jett) stated it was an unused theme for "Begins" that was left off.

Do you have any idea what trailers it was used in?

 

[CConn]

So you're saying what? I'm not clear. That they could use certain parts of B89's score for certain scenes?

I'm saying the B89 theme wouldn't have to be used in every single scene Batman is in.

As you said, sure it makes sense for there not to be a blaring heroic theme when Batman makes his first appearance. But at the end of the movie? Maybe it'd fit there.

Wouldn't it confuse people to hear a theme from a previous, unrelated incarnation of a source material? THAT'S why the Elfman theme shouldn't come anywhere close to BB's score.

And I'm saying I'm not even discussing that. I already said it's a perfectly valid reason for not wanting the B89 theme in BB. What else do you want me to say? Want me to agree with you? Honestly, I don't think I ever could unless I actually saw B89's theme synced with BB. I'm sorry, but I just can't say definitively one way or the other which I'd prefer.

And I only "rush" to "defend and legitimize" something when it makes sense to do so. I have no need to raise BB on a pedestal when I already place it there. I am defending Nolan because I feel he made the right decision.

That's the problem; you placed it on a pedestal to begin with.

Look, you said yourself, you're defending Nolan. But, here's the thing, I never attacked Nolan. I never said he should of used the B89 theme in BB. Go look back at my posts. All I said was that I didn't understand some people's arguments against it. Not your argument. Not Nolan's decision for not using.

It's that bias you have for the film, it's because it's on a pedestal to you, that makes you see a statement like the one I made, and immediately assume it to be a criticism when it isn't. And all that does is lead to (at worst) arguments and (at best) debates that have no point or purpose.

 

[sasquatchs]

Now see, personally I like BB's score. If there had been some form of memorable theme, I'd have absolutely no problem with it.

I wasn't being fair there, I enjoy some of it, basically they put all the best stuff in the teaser, I like that ominous beat in the background. Plus the beginning of Nycteris, that's oddly creepy for a straightforward gadget scene. But there's also alot of not so great stuff that would have played better as quiet scenes. I suppose alot of it was they were rushed so had to rely alot on music. Molossus was really bad, but it fit the conventional ending I suppose

That isn't what I meant. If a filmmaker relied on music solely, we wouldn't have visuals! But music plays a larger part than I think you give it credit for.

That's not what I meant either, if there were no visuals there'd be nothing to overwhelm

 

[Agentsands77]

Many (including Jett) stated it was an unused theme for "Begins" that was left off.

Yeah, but it was debunked since then.

Do you have any idea what trailers it was used in?

It's not used in any trailers, but was made by a group that makes trailer music. I used to know the name, but it slips my mind right now. All I know is that 100% this wasn't the unused theme from BEGINS.

Zimmer has said the unused theme is hinted at in the final bits of the score from BEGINS. Listen to the end credits... it's in there.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Batman Begins is a better film than Batman 89. The critics are evidence. And finally, I SAY FINALLY! WE GOT A BATMAN FILM, WITH BEGINS! YES! A BATMAN FILM ABOUT BATMAN: THE GUY WITH THE BLACK CAPE> Batman 89 was all About the Pilsbury Dough boy in clown make up...I mean Jack Nicholson as Joker. He had more screen time than Batman. That's just not right; that made it a weaker film than Begins. IMO!

What the hell are you talking about?

This thread is about Batman's score and musical theme.

 

[BatMatt]

I think what CConn is getting at could be demonstrated with the example of James Bond. All 21 movies have had different scores throughout the film, but it does also go back to that one central theme.

 

[Agentsands77]

I'm saying the B89 theme wouldn't have to be used in every single scene Batman is in.

I don't want the B89 theme because I don't think it's the end-all be-all of Batman themes. And it's just a bit too gothic for the tone of Nolan's world. It would have to be significantly re-orchestrated to fit, and would lose all its awesomeness in the process.

I'd prefer it if Nolan used Shirley Walker's Batman theme. That's the definitive Batman theme, IMO.

Honestly, I don't think I ever could unless I actually saw B89's theme synced with BB.

I've seen it done on a vid somewhere on YouTube. Didn't think it worked at all.