This was posted on the two-face thread about a week ago, but, it's all 'Heroes' talk now, so I only actually got 2 responses if this didn't really warrant a thread, feel free to flame my ass, I just wanted to here the thoughts and feelings of other folks in the know about TDK
Ive had this theory rumbling in my head for a good while now, and seeing as Ive yet to hear any proof against it, and Ive yet to hear anybody else with a similar theory speak their piece, I thought Id air it out for discussion.
If youll remember, the Batman animated series had an interesting take on Harvey Dent/ Two-Face, before his transformation he already showed signs of multiple personality disorder with the violent alter-ego of Big Bad Harv BEFORE his accident. Long Halloween, the noted primary source for The Dark Knight presented a similar version in a much more subtle way as the issue is left ambiguous as to Harveys involvement in the murders, with the possibility of more than one Holiday killer.
Now, my theory evolved as more and more rumors came through about the Jokers ferry attacks. I think anybody familiar with the Two-Face can definitely see the Two-Face-esque aspects of the two-ferry setup. Frankly, I couldnt ignore the Two-Face aspect of the crime, even as more and more rumors confirmed that the Joker was behind it, in a little social experiment. I thought it was completely ridiculous that Nolan would use such a Two-Face like scheme for the Joker when he knows full we know full well that he is setting Two-Face up for a prominent role in the next film (moreover, if, as they say, Joker wont die in this one, with Two-Face and Joker on the loose in the next film, we can expect a jumble)
As it has become increasingly obvious that not only Harvey Dent, but Two-Face himself would be playing a major role in the film, I began to become concerned about possibility of an overcrowded script, especially where multiple villains are concerned. While Nolan (in my opinion) pulled it off quite deftly in Begins, I think anybody whos seen Spider Man 3 and the two Schumacher movies would be a little edgy about two villains both having arch status in the same movie.
So, in my desperation I tried to discern what a smart writer might do to remedy this distressing too much going on situation. To me it seemed Two-face was a much to difficult ball to juggle in a film, that, as all the marketing has shown, most certainly relies heavily on establishing the Joker as a monolithic and terrifying threat to Batman and Gotham city. What I came up with was the a Big Bad Harv type alter-ego already alive and well, but unknown to our hero Harvey Dent, and this evil alter-ego is the fellow pulling the strings behind the Jokers schemes. This alternate Harv could already be a mob heavy hitter, calling the shots via Telephone, never showing his face. Maybe even the Joker doesnt know who he is maybe he even orders his own scarring.
I think, if this is the case, I dont think it would diminish the threat of Joker at all, I done well, after all, some of the finest villains in pop-culture history have been henchmen. And of coarse, in Dark victory, Joker was one of Two-Faces Lieutenants.
If this were the case it would solve several problems, one being the potential villain clutter in both this film and the next one, if Joker is mad face of some behind the scenes evil turned freak mob boss, things fit much better than two nut jobs both trying to do their own thing, especially as far as a movie plot goes. The second issue is that it would not only drive a more cohesive plot but give some pretext to harveys post-scar madness after evil Harv is revealed. And Batmans supposed t0 be a detective in this, to paraphrase Nolan, his detective work is going to drive the plot, and Batman chasing a mysterious mad clown and searching for the identity of his secret phantom mob boss is a mystery that works just fine. And it could set up the Gang war that was Moroni vs. Falcone in the comics, but with behind the curtain Harv instead of Falcone
So, discuss, any input, would be great. Again this is all just theory based on what we know so far.
Ive had this theory rumbling in my head for a good while now, and seeing as Ive yet to hear any proof against it, and Ive yet to hear anybody else with a similar theory speak their piece, I thought Id air it out for discussion.
If youll remember, the Batman animated series had an interesting take on Harvey Dent/ Two-Face, before his transformation he already showed signs of multiple personality disorder with the violent alter-ego of Big Bad Harv BEFORE his accident. Long Halloween, the noted primary source for The Dark Knight presented a similar version in a much more subtle way as the issue is left ambiguous as to Harveys involvement in the murders, with the possibility of more than one Holiday killer.
Now, my theory evolved as more and more rumors came through about the Jokers ferry attacks. I think anybody familiar with the Two-Face can definitely see the Two-Face-esque aspects of the two-ferry setup. Frankly, I couldnt ignore the Two-Face aspect of the crime, even as more and more rumors confirmed that the Joker was behind it, in a little social experiment. I thought it was completely ridiculous that Nolan would use such a Two-Face like scheme for the Joker when he knows full we know full well that he is setting Two-Face up for a prominent role in the next film (moreover, if, as they say, Joker wont die in this one, with Two-Face and Joker on the loose in the next film, we can expect a jumble)
As it has become increasingly obvious that not only Harvey Dent, but Two-Face himself would be playing a major role in the film, I began to become concerned about possibility of an overcrowded script, especially where multiple villains are concerned. While Nolan (in my opinion) pulled it off quite deftly in Begins, I think anybody whos seen Spider Man 3 and the two Schumacher movies would be a little edgy about two villains both having arch status in the same movie.
So, in my desperation I tried to discern what a smart writer might do to remedy this distressing too much going on situation. To me it seemed Two-face was a much to difficult ball to juggle in a film, that, as all the marketing has shown, most certainly relies heavily on establishing the Joker as a monolithic and terrifying threat to Batman and Gotham city. What I came up with was the a Big Bad Harv type alter-ego already alive and well, but unknown to our hero Harvey Dent, and this evil alter-ego is the fellow pulling the strings behind the Jokers schemes. This alternate Harv could already be a mob heavy hitter, calling the shots via Telephone, never showing his face. Maybe even the Joker doesnt know who he is maybe he even orders his own scarring.
I think, if this is the case, I dont think it would diminish the threat of Joker at all, I done well, after all, some of the finest villains in pop-culture history have been henchmen. And of coarse, in Dark victory, Joker was one of Two-Faces Lieutenants.
If this were the case it would solve several problems, one being the potential villain clutter in both this film and the next one, if Joker is mad face of some behind the scenes evil turned freak mob boss, things fit much better than two nut jobs both trying to do their own thing, especially as far as a movie plot goes. The second issue is that it would not only drive a more cohesive plot but give some pretext to harveys post-scar madness after evil Harv is revealed. And Batmans supposed t0 be a detective in this, to paraphrase Nolan, his detective work is going to drive the plot, and Batman chasing a mysterious mad clown and searching for the identity of his secret phantom mob boss is a mystery that works just fine. And it could set up the Gang war that was Moroni vs. Falcone in the comics, but with behind the curtain Harv instead of Falcone
So, discuss, any input, would be great. Again this is all just theory based on what we know so far.
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