Birds of Prey Birds of Prey General Discussion and Speculation

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I like this movie. :D I hope things still work in the future (the casting are too good to not appear in movies again) and I hope Cass will be an awesome fighter. Shout-out to Margot Robbie, she seemed to be very dedicated, especially in stunts, as a non stuntwoman.

Sad that some of fantastic characters (and actors) who will be out of the possible future installments. Maybe, some space and time shenanigans could be in play... They're just too good for just one movie and no more.
 
I really hate how Harley Quinn visually went backwards. In BOP, she looked so cool and then look at The Suicide Squad.. she lost her cool crazy vibe that she got in this. I miss Cathy Yan.
 
Eh, James Gunn made Harley Quinn look like Harley Quinn. The red and black color scheme is kinda her thing.
 
Eh, James Gunn made Harley Quinn look like Harley Quinn. The red and black color scheme is kinda her thing.
It’s not the red and black thing, I like that. It’s the hair mostly. It went from “specific take on the character” to stepping backwards toward the male gaze side of things. It’s still 100000 times better than Ayer’s look though.
 
It’s not the red and black thing, I like that. It’s the hair mostly. It went from “specific take on the character” to stepping backwards toward the male gaze side of things. It’s still 100000 times better than Ayer’s look though.
I think some fans want to see Harley Quinn as a crazy villain, mostly as Joker's side-kick, which is a step backwards and this makes her rather two-dimensional.

Then there's Arkham games / Mortal Kombat games version of Harley, I think which is the version James Gunn seems to be going for, as a crazy bad-@$$ character, which again makes her rather two dimensional character.

In BoP she's having more personality (which is closer to BTAS Harley) and character arc, which is better version.
 
I think some fans want to see Harley Quinn as a crazy villain, mostly as Joker's side-kick, which is a step backwards and this makes her rather two-dimensional.

Then there's Arkham games / Mortal Kombat games version of Harley, I think which is the version James Gunn seems to be going for, as a crazy bad-@$$ character, which again makes her rather two dimensional character.

In BoP she's having more personality (which is closer to BTAS Harley) and character arc, which is better version.
Agree. I kind of wish they’d do a Harley and Ivy HBO Max miniseries with Cathy Yan as the director/producer.
 
It’s still 100000 times better than Ayer’s look though.
Weird cause a lot of people like Ayer's look for her. A lot of women too, I mean what's the problem. Gunn's version looks good as well.
 
Weird cause a lot of people like Ayer's look for her. A lot of women too, I mean what's the problem. Gunn's version looks good as well.
Gunn’s looks good but just seems like a big pivot from BOP. Ayers is just male gaze garbage. Treats her less like a fully formed character and more like “I’m dressed this way to show off my butt and please the male viewers”. Yes, she’s got those vibes to her in the comics (written and drawn a lot by men) and cartoon but one would say she covers up more in her classic look than what Ayer had her in.

Which is what made BOP refreshing. The outfits she was in were in character yet comfortable and made sense. I’m happy with Gunn’s take for that reason.
 
Gunn’s looks good but just seems like a big pivot from BOP. Ayers is just male gaze garbage. Treats her less like a fully formed character and more like “I’m dressed this way to show off my butt and please the male viewers”. Yes, she’s got those vibes to her in the comics (written and drawn a lot by men) and cartoon but one would say she covers up more in her classic look than what Ayer had her in.

Which is what made BOP refreshing. The outfits she was in were in character yet comfortable and made sense. I’m happy with Gunn’s take for that reason.
To be fair, her Ayer look is fine too. It's only looked at harshly because it's a superhero movie. I don't think there was anything wrong with the way she dressed even if it was pleasing male viewers. They don't make the world go round lol. I don't know why clothes and hair is so political. And why people like to police how fictional female character (and real life women too) dress, with all the weird pseudo feminist gatekeeping.
 
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To be fair, her Ayer look is fine too. It's only looked at harshly because it's a superhero movie. I don't think there was anything wrong with the way she dressed even if it was pleasing male viewers. They don't make the world go round lol. I don't know why clothes and hair is so political. And why people like to police how fictional female character (and real life women too) dress, with all the weird pseudo feminist gatekeeping.
The difference between Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey fashion is based upon the fact that one comes from the male gaze position and the other from the eye of a female director. BOP features women dressed by women. It still has short shorts, tank tops and skin but it’s not in the objectified way. Treats them more like characters and less like something for men to look at and get excited by. Look at the suicide squad, all the men are covered up, not showing flesh. Harley’s butt is hanging out. No armor or protection. Then... Look at Gunns, she is at least matching what the rest of the team has.

Not trying to fight, just think it matters to have women behind the scenes that help make sure female characters are more than just eye Candy for the male audience.
 
The difference between Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey fashion is based upon the fact that one comes from the male gaze position and the other from the eye of a female director. BOP features women dressed by women. It still has short shorts, tank tops and skin but it’s not in the objectified way. Treats them more like characters and less like something for men to look at and get excited by. Look at the suicide squad, all the men are covered up, not showing flesh. Harley’s butt is hanging out. No armor or protection. Then... Look at Gunns, she is at least matching what the rest of the team has.

Not trying to fight, just think it matters to have women behind the scenes that help make sure female characters are more than just eye Candy for the male audience.
it wouldn't be a problem if it was better balanced out, in terms of female representation and style. If there were more females on the team Harley's clothing wouldn't stand out so much. I guess i saw Ayer’s wardrobe of Harley to be totally her type of punk rock style. Controversial opinion i know, but I don't think "male/female gaze" is inherently bad if the character isn't there solely for the gaze. The problem I think was that because it's an ensemble film it's hard to have Harley's personality stand out. So people just notices her attire. Dressing her more modestly or practically wasn't going to develop her character more than it already was in that film. Tbh it would have actually worked better in her own movie cause she'd have the whole film to her self including wardrobe changing. I think as a character Harley should dress however she likes. But Harley's not a real person, so her style is whatever people (male/female writers) demands it to be, or want it to be i guess.
 
Came in here to see if people was addressing what Margot said about a supposed sequel not being imminent. Instead see people still arguing about her clothes from SS! Lol

Look I'm going to be totally honest. I was ok with Harley's clothes in SS because it was a popcorn flick. I mean clearly the look is iconic cause I see women AND men cosplaying that look. For the record I didn't care about her clothes in BoP, but I definitely didn't like the fact there was no costumes for Huntress and Black Canary. But I think I ranted about that already elsewhere.

Also I really couldn't get into BoP, it wasn't bad. Just painfully bland and boring. People blaming the R-rating is totally wrong. The movie was just not appealing, it had nothing to do with the R-rating.
 
The difference between Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey fashion is based upon the fact that one comes from the male gaze position and the other from the eye of a female director. BOP features women dressed by women. It still has short shorts, tank tops and skin but it’s not in the objectified way. Treats them more like characters and less like something for men to look at and get excited by. Look at the suicide squad, all the men are covered up, not showing flesh. Harley’s butt is hanging out. No armor or protection. Then... Look at Gunns, she is at least matching what the rest of the team has.

Not trying to fight, just think it matters to have women behind the scenes that help make sure female characters are more than just eye Candy for the male audience.

Even short shorts, look at the length in SS
suicide-squad-margot-robbie-harley-quinn.jpg


Compared to BoP
MCDBIOF_WB022.jpg


The shorts in SS didnt need to be to the point where he butt hung out and Margot would have to state "never again". But this is also paired with Ayers going "we tried multiple Harley looks and this was the best one we could do" only for the sequel to come out with something that is true to the character and still has the required "sexiness"
920667-the-suicide-squad-harley-quinn-new-outfit-john-cena.png


Harley went from a character that was covered head to toe to reducing that by like 85% whereas male characters who start off in ridiculous outfits where they have next to nothing on are usually adapted to film with more clothing on.
 
Even short shorts, look at the length in SS
suicide-squad-margot-robbie-harley-quinn.jpg


Compared to BoP
MCDBIOF_WB022.jpg


The shorts in SS didnt need to be to the point where he butt hung out and Margot would have to state "never again". But this is also paired with Ayers going "we tried multiple Harley looks and this was the best one we could do" only for the sequel to come out with something that is true to the character and still has the required "sexiness"
920667-the-suicide-squad-harley-quinn-new-outfit-john-cena.png


Harley went from a character that was covered head to toe to reducing that by like 85% whereas male characters who start off in ridiculous outfits where they have next to nothing on are usually adapted to film with more clothing on.
Yeah. Basically agree with it. BOP lacked the harlequin look because they were trying to separate her from her connection with the Joker. Also I think her outfits looked great so *shrug*. I’m excited for The Suicide Squad though. Love the Black and Red look. Just don’t love the hair yet.
 
Even short shorts, look at the length in SS
suicide-squad-margot-robbie-harley-quinn.jpg


Compared to BoP
MCDBIOF_WB022.jpg


The shorts in SS didnt need to be to the point where he butt hung out and Margot would have to state "never again". But this is also paired with Ayers going "we tried multiple Harley looks and this was the best one we could do" only for the sequel to come out with something that is true to the character and still has the required "sexiness"
920667-the-suicide-squad-harley-quinn-new-outfit-john-cena.png


Harley went from a character that was covered head to toe to reducing that by like 85% whereas male characters who start off in ridiculous outfits where they have next to nothing on are usually adapted to film with more clothing on.
Except Gunn’s design isn't "sexiness". It's just neutral, which is totally fine too.
 
I mean clearly the look is iconic cause I see women AND men cosplaying that look.
Every Halloween party i been to that following summer here in L.A. had about 2 dozen male and female Harley Quinn costumes. Not to mention all the conventions. So it couldn't have been too terrible a look. Just sayin.

For the record I agree that it matters to have women behind the scenes that help make sure female characters are more than just eye Candy for the male audience. I just think Harley's appearance wasn't as out of left field as people make it out to be.
 
To be fair to Ayer, the path from SS to BoP to TSS gives us a good idea of origin and evolution of the character, which wouldn't be so obvious had Harley just appeared in same Black & Red Harlequin outfit in all 3 movies.
 

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