Blade Runner 2049 - Part 3

[Mysteryman]

"Blade Runner 2049" press-conference in Tokyo. October 23.
Director Denis Villeneuve, Harrison Ford, Ana de Armas and Sylvia Hoyeks.

Thanks for these, Faora!

Does anyone have the "art of the movie" book? I was tempted to buy it off Amazon but at £39.99 it's quite pricey. Is it worth it?

I ordered it.
Should be here by tomorrow at the latest.

 

[Faora]

With that said, I think Joi and Luv are pretty great characters in 2049 and both leave you wondering exactly what their whole or real motivations were, and how human they really are, or their perceptions.

I saw a piece online somewhere that argued both sides but came down on she was real, and made interesting points. While K clearly decides that it was a lie what with the billboard Joi saying "Joe," and then deciding to go [blackout]give his life to save Deckard's[/blackout], Joi very well could just be the next generation where artificial intelligence is giving life to artificial intelligence. And just because the Replicants view her as lesser, it raises a question of whether they're any less misguided than the humans like Robin Wright who think K (or Roy Batty) have no souls?

And it comes down to her choosing to let herself be deleted off the console. That isn't what K wanted to hear, but she insisted anyway, so I am very open to her being sentient, even if she is less independent or self-aware as K is.

Exactly.

The Art and Soul.

 

[TheVileOne]

I saw a piece online somewhere that argued both sides but came down on she was real, and made interesting points. While K clearly decides that it was a lie what with the billboard Joi saying "Joe," and then deciding to go [blackout]give his life to save Deckard's[/blackout], Joi very well could just be the next generation where artificial intelligence is giving life to artificial intelligence. And just because the Replicants view her as lesser, it raises a question of whether they're any less misguided than the humans like Robin Wright who think K (or Roy Batty) have no souls?

And it comes down to her choosing to let herself be deleted off the console. That isn't what K wanted to hear, but she insisted anyway, so I am very open to her being sentient, even if she is less independent or self-aware as K is.

I think that other video just doesn't give enough evidence toward its thesis.

 

[Brother Jack]

And it comes down to her choosing to let herself be deleted off the console. That isn't what K wanted to hear, but she insisted anyway, so I am very open to her being sentient, even if she is less independent or self-aware as K is.

You know, I had been going with the reading that she wasn't "real", but the fact that she does willingly put herself on the line despite K not wanting her to is very telling. Though I guess you could argue she was still acting in K's interest because he wanted to be with her, and if she didn't go mobile they wouldn't have been together.

 

[TheVileOne]

But you see, that is what K wanted. Everything that Joi does is what K wants her to do. That's why Joi is the ideal partner. It's not like K fought her very hard over that decision. It's everything he wants to see and everything he wants to hear.

 

[Loki882]

I think that perhaps the idea is that "Joi" isn't real to begin with (hence the black eyes of the hologram. Eyes seem to be very symbolic in Blade Runner). She's a product to be sold to willing customers.

However, perhaps the individual Joi's can potentially develop a level of sentience. So perhaps she developed genuine feelings for K over time:

Spoiler

-Her telling him that she loves him, despite him being annoyed/telling her that she doesn't have to say that.
-Her being willing to "share him" with someone else, despite it seemingly making her jealous to some degree.
-Her being willing to risk death by containing her entire existence in just the portable holo-system and wanting to go with him to find Deckard.
-Etc.

But yeah, I do believe that it's meant to be somewhat ambiguous.

 

[DeadPresident]

It's not everything he wants to see and wants to hear, there are a few times when they disagree or where he's visibly annoyed by her actions. It was only a wish fulfillment dynamic for a certain portion.

 

[Faora]

Maybe all Joi in city is same in humans/replicants. But I sure K's Joi is unique and have soul. Thanks to K romantic. He could make her a soulless and lustful thing for pleasure. But he wanted to love and was loved. Joi feel real emotions and feelings. And how many times did she told him how wants to be a real girl? Her initiative about sex. And other. And when it's real emotions no matter biological human or not. She real and alive. For him. And not matter that K decided after huge hologram (black eyes - no soul). His most important and sensual memories associated with his Joi.

 

[TheVileOne]

It's not everything he wants to see and wants to hear, there are a few times when they disagree or where he's visibly annoyed by her actions. It was only a wish fulfillment dynamic for a certain portion.

He's only outwardly acting annoyed.

Spoiler

My feeling is, Denis wouldn't want us to believe Joi is truly real and unique based on throwing that last holographic advertisement of her, when even the advertisement calls him Joe. That wasn't a personal unique name that Joi created for K because she "loves" him. That's just her base programming.

 

[Faora]

Interesting. What Joi said to K if saw other Joi? For example giant hologram.

 

[DACrowe]

I think that other video just doesn't give enough evidence toward its thesis.

Maybe, but I think there is a definite case to be made based on how Joi chooses to let herself be deleted--expressly against K's wishes--as an act of love, that she was in fact sentient. In which case, it is an interesting scenario with humans disparaging Replicants who in turn disparage hologram AI.

You know, I had been going with the reading that she wasn't "real", but the fact that she does willingly put herself on the line despite K not wanting her to is very telling. Though I guess you could argue she was still acting in K's interest because he wanted to be with her, and if she didn't go mobile they wouldn't have been together.

Well no, she could have gone mobile. The choice of deleting herself from the console was to prevent the Wallace Corporation from using her data to track K to Vegas. Granted, I saw a counter argument that Jois are programmed to seek destruction, so as to insure that customers then buy a new Joi. But to me that is reaching.

 

[DACrowe]

He's only outwardly acting annoyed.

Spoiler

My feeling is, Denis wouldn't want us to believe Joi is truly real and unique based on throwing that last holographic advertisement of her, when even the advertisement calls him Joe. That wasn't a personal unique name that Joi created for K because she "loves" him. That's just her base programming.

Well it is ambiguous, intentionally so. Yes, K obviously takes a negative reading of the situation as that downbeat realization is what causes him to ultimately [blackout]sacrifice his life for Deckard's "real love" for his daughter[/blackout]. But just because K makes a negative interpretation of the event, I am very open to seeing some of the clues that point to the contrary. Perhaps Joi is not as self-aware or free-willed as replicants. But there is definitely a level of sentient understanding and self-improvement and realization going on with her, in my opinion.

 

[Smilodon]

Well it is ambiguous, intentionally so. Yes, K obviously takes a negative reading of the situation as that downbeat realization is what causes him to ultimately [blackout]sacrifice his life for Deckard's "real love" for his daughter[/blackout]. But just because K makes a negative interpretation of the event, I am very open to seeing some of the clues that point to the contrary. Perhaps Joi is not as self-aware or free-willed as replicants. But there is definitely a level of sentient understanding and self-improvement and realization going on with her, in my opinion.

I don't think K takes a negative interpretation to the Joi ad at all.

Spoiler

Like mentioned before and other analysis of the film, K realizes that no matter how many other Joi companions are out there in the world provided by Wallace Corp, they won't be his Joi. The Joi that he bought the Emulator for and watched embrace the rain for the first time etc. etc. It's not the fact that Joi is AI and isn't real - it's more about the experience that makes them human. The shell is meaningless - and it parallels the previous moment with Deckard and the new Rachael.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't think K takes a negative interpretation to the Joi ad at all.

Spoiler

Like mentioned before and other analysis of the film, K realizes that no matter how many other Joi companions are out there in the world provided by Wallace Corp, they won't be his Joi. The Joi that he bought the Emulator for and watched embrace the rain for the first time etc. etc. It's not the fact that Joi is AI and isn't real - it's more about the experience that makes them human. The shell is meaningless - and it parallels the previous moment with Deckard and the new Rachael.

Technically they are all his Joi because they all do and say everything the user wants

Joi was a lie that K lived, but it was a lie that he allowed himself to believe in.

 

[Iceman]

Maybe we need some real life Jois to test out how these would make us feel and what we would believe. I can volunteer for the process.

 

[TheVileOne]

Maybe we need some real life Jois to test out how these would make us feel and what we would believe. I can volunteer for the process.

I think it is ambiguous how you can interpret her. I simply see Joi as an AI and nothing more. A highly advanced one? Yes. But I don't believe she was sentient like the Replicants are arguably sentient.

 

[Iceman]

I think it is ambiguous how you can interpret her. I simply see Joi as an AI and nothing more. A highly advanced one? Yes. But I don't believe she was sentient like the Replicants are arguably sentient.

Yes. Do you think if you had one live with you that it could be easy to convince yourself that they were real as a result of their sophistication and the depth of the personal stuff they can get into?

 

[Faora]

I don't think K takes a negative interpretation to the Joi ad at all.

Spoiler

Like mentioned before and other analysis of the film, K realizes that no matter how many other Joi companions are out there in the world provided by Wallace Corp, they won't be his Joi. The Joi that he bought the Emulator for and watched embrace the rain for the first time etc. etc. It's not the fact that Joi is AI and isn't real - it's more about the experience that makes them human. The shell is meaningless - and it parallels the previous moment with Deckard and the new Rachael.

Yes. The parallel between Deckard with Rachael and K with Joi is very interesting. I'm sure the answer lies here.

 

[Consona]

The Sound Of Blade Runner 2049 Documentary

 

[VTGuy]

The Sound Of Blade Runner 2049 Documentary

Very cool. It is amazing what depth some of these directors go into to get the soundtrack/sound effects right for their movies. As mentioned in the video, the original Blade Runner blended sound effects and track together and the same is done in the new movie.
I really like the 2049 soundtrack. It is great to turn on an listen to while I do work. Hauntingly beautiful.

 

[Faora]

The Sound Of Blade Runner 2049 Documentary

Brilliant.

Adorable Ana at Blade Runner 2049 press-conference in Tokyo.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Saw it tonight, as someone who isn’t a huge fan of the original, I enjoyed it a lot. It wasn’t one of the best of the year for me but it was pretty good.

Visuals and sound track were amazing, some great performances as well. It just a little TOO slow at times and could have done with a bit of trimming. But I think this will be one of those movies that rewards repeat viewings.

8.5/10

 

[Faora]

Director Denis Villeneuve, Harrison Ford, Ana de Armas and Sylvia Hoyeks at premiere in Tokyo. October 24.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yes. Do you think if you had one live with you that it could be easy to convince yourself that they were real as a result of their sophistication and the depth of the personal stuff they can get into?

Yes. In many ways, people already do it with things less sophisticated than an AI program. They do it with their cars or other personal possessions.

 

[InvisibleWoman]

He's only outwardly acting annoyed.

Spoiler

My feeling is, Denis wouldn't want us to believe Joi is truly real and unique based on throwing that last holographic advertisement of her, when even the advertisement calls him Joe. That wasn't a personal unique name that Joi created for K because she "loves" him. That's just her base programming.

I said a few pages back how I think...

Spoiler

the giant hologram Joi saying "you look like a good Joe" wasn't meant to show that his Joi was just following her programming, I think it was supposed to be a coincidence but it was that moment which made K realise he HAS a name now (given to him by HIS Joi) and that he is more than just a replicant and that although this giant Joi may look the same (and even say the same things) she's just not the same (even if they are, to HIM she's not and that's what makes her "real" - noted how it was supposed to mirror the scene between Deckard and Rachael Mk2 earlier)

Hence why he ripped his bandage off his nose and suddenly got the willpower to kick some ass. I don't think you'd feel that way if you thought everything you'd felt wasn't real. You'd probably go to bed and eat Ben & Jerry's cookie dough ice cream under the duvet

Anyway the whole point of not giving a definitive answer and leaving ambiguity is so we can have these conversations and form our own decisions based on what we see/interpret. I still can't decide if Deckard is a replicant...