Bond inspires Batman inspires Bond

Flame on! said:
Is it coincidence that the 3 'realistic' ones are far superior?

It's also no coincidence that they are also frequently the ones that are overlooked. 3 or 4 'realistic' films out of 20? What does that suggest that the James Bond films are really about?
 
Kevin Roegele said:
It's important to note, however, that whilst all Bond films contain fantastical elements, there are different degrees of it. Licence to Kill, For Your Eyes Only and From Russia With Love are all somewhat more realistic and serious than the likes of Moonraker, Die Another Day and You Only Live Twice, for instance.

Yes, but there is a basic fantasy element that a lot of people seem to forget when they say they want a more "realistic" Bond. There are realistic elements in the best of the "fantasy" Bond (Goldfinger, Thunderball, OHMSS, even Octopussy) but the Bond franchise (and the Bond novels) uses realism more as a mean to make the viewer accept the most ludicrous and exagerated plot elements. I take a good Bond story as I take Chrétien de Troyes: solid plot, pseudo-realistic setting and references (Chrétien described the Arthurian world as a XIIth century society) mixed with mythical/fairytale aspects (in Bond, an uber-terrorist organisation such as SPECTRE, the various doomsday devices Bond has to destroy, etc).
 
Everyman said:
Yes, but there is a basic fantasy element that a lot of people seem to forget when they say they want a more "realistic" Bond.

Of course. People like to generalize. Therefore, Connery never put a foot wrong, Roger Moore played everything for laughs, and Dalton was ultra-serious and angry the whole time.
 
Kevin Roegele said:
Of course. People like to generalize. Therefore, Connery never put a foot wrong, Roger Moore played everything for laughs, and Dalton was ultra-serious and angry the whole time.

Yes, and people forget that Connery's performance in DAF was pretty lazy and that Roger Moore was sometimes very serious (he is the only Bond after Lazenby who convincingly grieves over Tracy's death, in TSWLM and FYEO). I think Dalton is perceived as ultra serious because most of his jokes felt flat (IMO anyway).
 
well casino royale has been dubbed a "bond begins" type story
 
i'm pleased with this new direction. i remember seeing all the bonds in the movie theater & i think it's time for a change. maybe craig will have something new to offer. i'm hoping the movie is closer to the original ian flemming vision for bond rather than the one depicted in the movies.
 
ampersand said:
Were people as negative about BB being made as they are about the new Bond? Both franchises are/were in the same position. BB worked for the bat franchise, why can't Casino Royale work for Bond?

Actually, yeah, there was a lot of negativity before Batman Begins was released. Hopefully, the creators of Casino Royale can come out and shut us up like Nolan and company did.

And for the record, I think Bond works much better without the fantastical crap.
 
ampersand said:
Both franchises are/were in the same position.

But they aren't in the same position.

Batman Begins was a restart because Schumacher turned the Batman movies into a laughing stock. And personally, I didn't feel the Burton films were really all that great either.

As far as movies go, the Batman movies ruined the comic book genre, and it took the X-Men and Spiderman movies to bring it back. Batman needed to be re-done, badly. Those previous movies (more particularly the last 2) just weren't Batman.

Bond, on the other hand, has been running strong for what? 40 years now? And it's still running strong. I've noticed a lot of dislike for Die Another Day, but myself, and most Bond fans I've come across in real life, have dubbed it one of the best Bond films ever. There is no reason to "re-start" the Bond franchise. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Unfortunatley, that's what they are gonna do. They are gonna throw out the previous 40 years and 20 movies, because re-starts are the new Hollywood fad with Batman Begins and Superman Returns, just like filming back-to-back was the fad a few years ago after Lord of the Rings, and then Matrix and Kill Bill did it.

It's hard to say I'm a "huge" Bond fan, when I haven't even seen all the movies (even though I own the entire collection), and some people have seen them all, and know all the books, and all of that. But I am a pretty big Bond fan, and I always look forward to the new Bond films ever since I've been a fan after Brosnan came on board (before that, I had just never been exposed to James Bond movies), and I am not happy about this in the least.

No Q? No Moneypenny? No gadgets? I'm sorry, I don't care if it's Desmond, or John Cleese, Q is an essential for the James Bond films. The gadgets, the cars, and the girls are all part of what makes Bond, Bond. And now they wanna take that out (well, they still have the girls) to restart the franchise with Bond becoming a 00-agent in 2006? Gonna throw out his Cold-War adventures, and everything else, just because re-starts are "in" right now?

I was unhappy when I first heard that Daniel Craig was announced as Bond. Brosnan wanted to stay, and as far as I'm concerned, he's the best Bond yet, so getting rid of him was a negative in my mind. But now... now they want to make this as a re-start? A new series?

As much as I like Bond (and I will end up seeing this film), I'm not really happy with this, and it's hard for me to anticipate a movie when I think they are doing everything wrong that they can to the character.
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
But they aren't in the same position.

Batman Begins was a restart because Schumacher turned the Batman movies into a laughing stock. And personally, I didn't feel the Burton films were really all that great either.

As far as movies go, the Batman movies ruined the comic book genre, and it took the X-Men and Spiderman movies to bring it back. Batman needed to be re-done, badly. Those previous movies (more particularly the last 2) just weren't Batman.

Bond, on the other hand, has been running strong for what? 40 years now? And it's still running strong. I've noticed a lot of dislike for Die Another Day, but myself, and most Bond fans I've come across in real life, have dubbed it one of the best Bond films ever. There is no reason to "re-start" the Bond franchise. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Unfortunatley, that's what they are gonna do. They are gonna throw out the previous 40 years and 20 movies, because re-starts are the new Hollywood fad with Batman Begins and Superman Returns, just like filming back-to-back was the fad a few years ago after Lord of the Rings, and then Matrix and Kill Bill did it.

It's hard to say I'm a "huge" Bond fan, when I haven't even seen all the movies (even though I own the entire collection), and some people have seen them all, and know all the books, and all of that. But I am a pretty big Bond fan, and I always look forward to the new Bond films ever since I've been a fan after Brosnan came on board (before that, I had just never been exposed to James Bond movies), and I am not happy about this in the least.

No Q? No Moneypenny? No gadgets? I'm sorry, I don't care if it's Desmond, or John Cleese, Q is an essential for the James Bond films. The gadgets, the cars, and the girls are all part of what makes Bond, Bond. And now they wanna take that out (well, they still have the girls) to restart the franchise with Bond becoming a 00-agent in 2006? Gonna throw out his Cold-War adventures, and everything else, just because re-starts are "in" right now?

I was unhappy when I first heard that Daniel Craig was announced as Bond. Brosnan wanted to stay, and as far as I'm concerned, he's the best Bond yet, so getting rid of him was a negative in my mind. But now... now they want to make this as a re-start? A new series?

As much as I like Bond (and I will end up seeing this film), I'm not really happy with this, and it's hard for me to anticipate a movie when I think they are doing everything wrong that they can to the character.

Bond may not have gotten as bad as Batman did, but the last few movies were god awful.
 
ampersand said:
Bond may not have gotten as bad as Batman did, but the last few movies were god awful.

I would disagree... I would say that they are some of the better Bond films to date, and I know damn well that I am not alone with that opinion.
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
But they aren't in the same position.

Batman Begins was a restart because Schumacher turned the Batman movies into a laughing stock. And personally, I didn't feel the Burton films were really all that great either.

As far as movies go, the Batman movies ruined the comic book genre, and it took the X-Men and Spiderman movies to bring it back. Batman needed to be re-done, badly. Those previous movies (more particularly the last 2) just weren't Batman.

Bond, on the other hand, has been running strong for what? 40 years now? And it's still running strong. I've noticed a lot of dislike for Die Another Day, but myself, and most Bond fans I've come across in real life, have dubbed it one of the best Bond films ever. There is no reason to "re-start" the Bond franchise. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Unfortunatley, that's what they are gonna do. They are gonna throw out the previous 40 years and 20 movies, because re-starts are the new Hollywood fad with Batman Begins and Superman Returns, just like filming back-to-back was the fad a few years ago after Lord of the Rings, and then Matrix and Kill Bill did it.

It's hard to say I'm a "huge" Bond fan, when I haven't even seen all the movies (even though I own the entire collection), and some people have seen them all, and know all the books, and all of that. But I am a pretty big Bond fan, and I always look forward to the new Bond films ever since I've been a fan after Brosnan came on board (before that, I had just never been exposed to James Bond movies), and I am not happy about this in the least.

No Q? No Moneypenny? No gadgets? I'm sorry, I don't care if it's Desmond, or John Cleese, Q is an essential for the James Bond films. The gadgets, the cars, and the girls are all part of what makes Bond, Bond. And now they wanna take that out (well, they still have the girls) to restart the franchise with Bond becoming a 00-agent in 2006? Gonna throw out his Cold-War adventures, and everything else, just because re-starts are "in" right now?

I was unhappy when I first heard that Daniel Craig was announced as Bond. Brosnan wanted to stay, and as far as I'm concerned, he's the best Bond yet, so getting rid of him was a negative in my mind. But now... now they want to make this as a re-start? A new series?

As much as I like Bond (and I will end up seeing this film), I'm not really happy with this, and it's hard for me to anticipate a movie when I think they are doing everything wrong that they can to the character.


First of all, Bond movies have not been going strong for forty years. There was trouble when Connery left, filling the shoes of the man the audiences knew as Bond; then when Lazenby left, and Connery left again. Bringing in Roger Moore worked with Live and Let Die, but The Man with the Golden Gun performed comparitively lethargically at the box office. Thus, EON took a three year break to make the best bond ever and save the series, hence The Spy Who Loved Me - a very different film to The Man with the Golden Gun.

There were problems again when Licence to Kill was deemed to gritty by US audiences, Dalton not achieving the popularity of Moore or Connery, and Bond seemed to be collapsing under the likes of Lethal Weapon and Arnie movies. A six year legal battle didn't help either. Many considered 007 was a cold war relic as a series and should be abandoned - addressed in the movie GoldenEye, which came along and saved the series.

As for the stuff about restarts - Bond has been restarted repeatedly. The Living Daylights is a restart - Timothy Dalton's Bond is simply not old enough to have done the stuff Connery's Bond did in the 60's. GoldenEye is a restart.

Bond has to change with the times - that's why he's lasted. A Bond for the previous generation will not appeal to the current cinema going generation. And they have changed with the times. Look at From Russia With Love and Diamonds are Forever - so different it's hard to believe they are of the same series, let alone both within Connery's reign. Look at Moonraker - one of the most successful of all Bond movies - which suits the late 70's taste for big spectacle and sci-fi, and then For Your Eyes Only which followed, a very sober, John Le Carre-style Cold War thriller.

That's why Bond has lasted, because like batman, he adapts to the mood and taste of the audience.
 
No, Nell is right.

They're relaunching Bond because restarts are in fact in. And following trends is what the Bond producers do best. When they were in trouble after Connery jumped ship again and they needed a hook, they turned Live and Let Die into a Blaxploitation film because that's what was in at the time. When Star Wars exploded at the box office, they did Moonraker. They hired Dalton for the role (who they actually asked to be Connery's successor but he turned it down at the time) because Moore's films were becoming ridiculous and needed a serious actor to take the role. This was in response to the previously mentioned Lethal Weapon and Die Hard films. Action films got gritty in the 80s. Why Dalton didn't catch on is beyond me. I think it's because people were bored with the character at the time, not because Dalton was too serious and gritty. But I digress.

Now they're "relaunching" the series. What that even means in a series with no continuity I don't know. But they're ignoring everything that came before, except Judi Dench who is arguably one of the most distinctive elements of Brosnan's era, and going forward. Why they found it necessary to recast the role is beyond me. Brosnan even suggested they dumb down the budget and make it more character-driven. They then rewarded him by firing him. Why? Because they follow trends and the only other trend in Hollywood right now is turning comic books into films. Obviously, they can't turn Bond into a superhero so they have decided on a restart.

Whether this is going to pay off remains unseen. I think Casino Royale will be the most underwhelming Bond film since License to Kill (of course, I also think LTK is one of the greatest films in the series...oh the irony).
 
Kevin Roegele said:
First of all, Bond movies have not been going strong for forty years. There was trouble when Connery left, filling the shoes of the man the audiences knew as Bond; then when Lazenby left, and Connery left again. Bringing in Roger Moore worked with Live and Let Die, but The Man with the Golden Gun performed comparitively lethargically at the box office. Thus, EON took a three year break to make the best bond ever and save the series, hence The Spy Who Loved Me - a very different film to The Man with the Golden Gun.

There were problems again when Licence to Kill was deemed to gritty by US audiences, Dalton not achieving the popularity of Moore or Connery, and Bond seemed to be collapsing under the likes of Lethal Weapon and Arnie movies. A six year legal battle didn't help either. Many considered 007 was a cold war relic as a series and should be abandoned - addressed in the movie GoldenEye, which came along and saved the series.

As for the stuff about restarts - Bond has been restarted repeatedly. The Living Daylights is a restart - Timothy Dalton's Bond is simply not old enough to have done the stuff Connery's Bond did in the 60's. GoldenEye is a restart.

Bond has to change with the times - that's why he's lasted. A Bond for the previous generation will not appeal to the current cinema going generation. And they have changed with the times. Look at From Russia With Love and Diamonds are Forever - so different it's hard to believe they are of the same series, let alone both within Connery's reign. Look at Moonraker - one of the most successful of all Bond movies - which suits the late 70's taste for big spectacle and sci-fi, and then For Your Eyes Only which followed, a very sober, John Le Carre-style Cold War thriller.

That's why Bond has lasted, because like batman, he adapts to the mood and taste of the audience.

No, Bond has not been restarted.

They may have continued on with re-casts, but none have ever been a restart. None of those movies that you have ever mentioned have thrown out trademark Bond elements, such as Q, Moneypenny, and the gadgets, as is the case with these movies. None of the movies have thrown out his history, to make him a rookie agent in the year 2006, making that when he becomes part of MI6.

No, they have kept those elements in place, with different actors. Even Brosnan and Judi Dench, who brought in the newest era of Bond, didn't bring a restart. They brought a continuation, in which this was the same Bond character from the previous 15 movies, or however many came before GoldenEye, and an M character who was a new member in the line of M's that have headed MI6.

Casino Royale, however, throws the Bond character out the window, and is making an all new character. This isn't the same James Bond from Dr. No up until Die Another Day. This is a new Bond, and it's not just because it was a recast. Sean Connery, George Lazenby, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, and Pierce Brosnan are all different actors who played the same character. Daniel Craig is not playing the same character. He is playing someone different.

And I am not excited about it. The nature of Bond films as they are is to evolve with the times. You don't need to remake the character, and make him a rookie in 2006 to evolve with those times. They aren't doing it for any productive purpose. This is change for the sake of change. Because restarts are the fad right now.

And you mention all the problems this franchise has had over the decades, but the sole and simple fact that these movies have gone on for 20 movies, over 40 years, a feat that NO OTHER movie franchise has ever accomplished, is a testament to the fact that the character of James Bond never died, never got old. Maybe at some points, the interest wasn't as high. But that interest always came back, in one way or another.

This franchise isn't a laughing stock, like the Batman movies, which were considered to be disgraces to the character of Batman. Those movies NEEDED a restart. That character needed something to be done to exorcise the demons of the original 4 movies.

Bond didn't.

This may sound like I'm taking this a bit too seriously (and maybe I am), but GoldenEye is kind of tainted for me now, knowing the same guy who did that movie is the same one who's gonna destroy the character, with needless changes for no other reason than for the sake of change.
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
I would disagree... I would say that they are some of the better Bond films to date, and I know damn well that I am not alone with that opinion.

DAD was considered terrible by both the critics and the big fans (most of them anyway). It doesn't make it worth a restart, but things have definitely been broken in DAD.
 
Everyman said:
DAD was considered terrible by both the critics and the big fans (most of them anyway). It doesn't make it worth a restart, but things have definitely been broken in DAD.

Roger Ebert gave Die Another Day three stars. And on Rotten Tomatoes, it has a 59% rating, a mere 1% away from being considered fresh. Plus, it has the record for best opening weekend gross by a Bond film. And I personally enjoyed most of it (I hated Halle Berry's scenes).
 
SpyderDan said:
Roger Ebert gave Die Another Day three stars. And on Rotten Tomatoes, it has a 59% rating, a mere 1% away from being considered fresh. Plus, it has the record for best opening weekend gross by a Bond film. And I personally enjoyed most of it (I hated Halle Berry's scenes).

That doesn't mean anything. Roger Ebert though that For Your Eyes Only was mediocre, he thought that turkeys like King Arthur or Coppola's Dracula were pretty good, he can get wrong sometimes. And a movie's popularity (even critical) doesn't indicate it's quality. DAD has been ridiculed by a lot of critics and most of the fans hated it.
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
No, Bond has not been restarted.

They may have continued on with re-casts, but none have ever been a restart. None of those movies that you have ever mentioned have thrown out trademark Bond elements, such as Q, Moneypenny, and the gadgets, as is the case with these movies. None of the movies have thrown out his history, to make him a rookie agent in the year 2006, making that when he becomes part of MI6.

But Bond was a rookie at some stage, and since all Bond movies are set in the present day (when they were made), it might as well be 2006. If you attempt to apply strong continuity to the series, and say Craig's Bond was a rookie of atleast thirty years old pre-Dr No, that would make him over seventy years old in 2006.

Also, the traditional elements of Bond movies have been moved around and played with throughout the series. Live and Let Die, for instance, has no briefing scene in M's office, no Q whatsoever, Moore never uses a Walther PPK, or wears a tux. Moore himself never drove an Aston Martin, or said, "Shaken, not stirred.' in any movie. The Living Daylights only has one Bond girl, Licence to Kill sees Bond not even working for the British Government. And so on.

The 007 films have never been about continuity. Indeed, how do you explain that Bond has had an on-screen age of late-30s/early 40s for forty years? Roger Moore is only a few years older than Sean Connery so that works, but Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan, as someone else stated, are not old enough to be the same character Connery and Moore played. That's if you apply continuity to it.

Intrestingly, for OHMSS, the producers considered explaining the difference between Connery and Lazenby as plastic surgery, because too many bad guys knew what Bond looked like at that point. But instead, they went for forth-wall breaking, with Lazenby saying, "This never happened to the other fella."
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
...Unfortunatley, that's what they are gonna do. They are gonna throw out the previous 40 years and 20 movies, because re-starts are the new Hollywood fad with Batman Begins and Superman Returns...

Actually, Superman Returns is not a restart nor is it a remake. It's a sequel to the first two Superman films.
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
And you mention all the problems this franchise has had over the decades, but the sole and simple fact that these movies have gone on for 20 movies, over 40 years, a feat that NO OTHER movie franchise has ever accomplished

There have been 28 Godzilla films since 1954. And just like the Bond series, they started off as serious thrillers, became somewhat silly during the 70's, darker in the 80's, and expensive and spectacular in the 90's.
 
Everyman said:
That doesn't mean anything. Roger Ebert though that For Your Eyes Only was mediocre, he thought that turkeys like King Arthur or Coppola's Dracula were pretty good, he can get wrong sometimes. And a movie's popularity (even critical) doesn't indicate it's quality. DAD has been ridiculed by a lot of critics and most of the fans hated it.

Well it is only a matter of opinion so Ebert didn't get anything wrong. I'm just saying that it's pretty 50/50 with Die Another Day. It had its strengths (most of which were in the first half of the movie) and it definitely had its weaknesses. I still think it's one of the better Bond films.
 
SpyderDan said:
Well it is only a matter of opinion so Ebert didn't get anything wrong. I'm just saying that it's pretty 50/50 with Die Another Day. It had its strengths (most of which were in the first half of the movie) and it definitely had its weaknesses. I still think it's one of the better Bond films.

...One of the better Bond films that sent the series in a four years hiatus? And who got hated by most fans? A movie that was supposed to give us a spinoff with one of the most hated Bond girl, but never materialised? Come on! Instead of waiting for two years, we had to wait for four to get Casino Royale, after a few mini-crisis surrounding the pre-productions. Instead of going the same route, the producers wanted to scrap everything that had been done before, and do something diametrically different than the previous movie. This is not incidental. Die Another Day might not have been hated by all the critics when it was first released, but it sure ranks low among the fans and time isn't make it look any good.
 
Everyman said:
...One of the better Bond films that sent the series in a four years hiatus? And who got hated by most fans? A movie that was supposed to give us a spinoff with one of the most hated Bond girl, but never materialised? Come on! Instead of waiting for two years, we had to wait for four to get Casino Royale, after a few mini-crisis surrounding the pre-productions. Instead of going the same route, the producers wanted to scrap everything that had been done before, and do something diametrically different than the previous movie. This is not incidental. Die Another Day might not have been hated by all the critics when it was first released, but it sure ranks low among the fans and time isn't make it look any good.

Well I liked DAD so I don't give two craps what anyone else thinks.

As for the wait, if anything, a longer wait in between Bond films is a good thing. There's not enough time in between the films as it is. People have short attention spans as it is and yet you want a Bond film coming out practically every other week.

Yes, the spinoff talk was complete nonsense, I'll give you that. Thank God that never happened.

And you can go on and on about pre-production "crisis" and all that, but that happens with every Bond film. Every single one.

You should be glad they did DAD. Otherwise, they wouldn't be going back to Bond being a gritty thriller.
 
The events following DAD and leading up to Casino Royale are rather intriguing when you consider the history of the Bond actors and EON. What went on between Pierce Brosnan and EON is pretty tame compared to the mud slinging that went on between Cubby Brocolli and Sean Connery post YOLT.

The pre Brosnan DVD's always have great documentaries on the landscape of the time and have some great tidbits compared to the happy-go lucky documentaries we saw on the most recent Brosnan DVD's.

I think Casino Royale isn't simply a product of Die Another Day and the overall unfavourable opinion of the film. I think there's more to it. If anyone was around for LTK, it can easibly be argued that was a worse time period in the Bond continuim. And had it not been for the legal troubles, Cubby would have most likely released Property Of A Lady with Timothy Dalton anyways in '91.

I think alot of it had to do with the posturing between Brosnan, SONY and EON Productions, most notably Barbara and Mikey G. Had the waters not been so troubled, I think we would have seen Brosnan back as Bond. "He's too old, he wants more money, I don't want to come back." That's standardized BS you always see in situations like this.

Someone needs to write a book about the Brosnan/EON fiasco...
 
SpyderDan said:
Well I liked DAD so I don't give two craps what anyone else thinks.

As for the wait, if anything, a longer wait in between Bond films is a good thing. There's not enough time in between the films as it is. People have short attention spans as it is and yet you want a Bond film coming out practically every other week.

Yes, the spinoff talk was complete nonsense, I'll give you that. Thank God that never happened.

And you can go on and on about pre-production "crisis" and all that, but that happens with every Bond film. Every single one.

You should be glad they did DAD. Otherwise, they wouldn't be going back to Bond being a gritty thriller.


Well, yes a wait is a good thing. But why was there such a wait in the first place? Because Die Another Day was crap and it sent the franchise into a creative void! Look no further. Usually, two years wait in anyf ranchise is more than enough to write a new adventure and leave the audiences hungry for more. And yes, production crisis do happen in Bond films, and more often when you have to recast Bond, but DAD did contributed to this hiatus, therefore it contributed to the identity crisis the franchise has faced (and is still facing until CN is released), crisis least indirectly. Had they not wasted their time on a Jinx script for a possible spinoff (because they thought the character had POTENTIAL), had they not angered the fans, had they not turned Bond into an elderly xXx clone, they would have had the time to focus on what make the movies work for the next installment, instead of being disorientated and looking for what went wrong in DAD. Mistakes are always longer to repare when they are numerous. As I said, it isn,t incidental if they decided to take the OPPOSITE route to DAD.

Am I glad that they are making a gritter Bond? Yes. That doesn't mean I should be glad for the terrible Bond that was DAD. Repairing mistakes in the next film doesn't make the mistakes made in the previous one any less terrible. Maybe they could have made a grittier Bond film without thinking about a reboot, something that was at least partially provoqued by DAD's numerous bad ideas, because it was perceived as a point of no return in terms of ridiculous gadgets, bad one liners and cartoonish characters.
 
Everyman said:
Well, yes a wait is a good thing. But why was there such a wait in the first place? Because Die Another Day was crap and it sent the franchise into a creative void! Look no further. Usually, two years wait in anyf ranchise is more than enough to write a new adventure and leave the audiences hungry for more. And yes, production crisis do happen in Bond films, and more often when you have to recast Bond, but DAD did contributed to this hiatus, therefore it contributed to the identity crisis the franchise has faced (and is still facing until CN is released), crisis least indirectly. Had they not wasted their time on a Jinx script for a possible spinoff (because they thought the character had POTENTIAL), had they not angered the fans, had they not turned Bond into an elderly xXx clone, they would have had the time to focus on what make the movies work for the next installment, instead of being disorientated and looking for what went wrong in DAD. Mistakes are always longer to repare when they are numerous. As I said, it isn,t incidental if they decided to take the OPPOSITE route to DAD.

Am I glad that they are making a gritter Bond? Yes. That doesn't mean I should be glad for the terrible Bond that was DAD. Repairing mistakes in the next film doesn't make the mistakes made in the previous one any less terrible. Maybe they could have made a grittier Bond film without thinking about a reboot, something that was at least partially provoqued by DAD's numerous bad ideas, because it was perceived as a point of no return in terms of ridiculous gadgets, bad one liners and cartoonish characters.

Agreed. It's almost exactly the same situation as Batman Begins after Batman & Robin. Technically, B&R was a success, it made a profit and sold lots of toys. Artistically, it couldn't get any worse and the studio knew they had gone too far in the wrong direction.
 

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