Bought/Thought 11/19

Marcdachamp

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Amazing Spider-Man #578- PICK OF THE WEEK! Marcos Martin has to be one of the best artists that Marvel has brought over to this title. He bring so much energy and style to this series, and he is a perfect match for Waid's writing. This was just a great issue. This is, at its core, a perfect Spidey story. And that last page? Fantastic. Two weeks until the next issue? Rough. 9/10

Thunderbolts- Now THAT'S a first issue. I liked the SI tie-in, but the best part about Ellis/Deodato was the creepy tension you felt with each issue. This issue has it in spades. I'm very unsure what's going to happen, and I love that. 9/10

Fantastic 4- Hitch NAILED this issue. His art has been a little spotty throughout this run, but all issue I kept thinking how solid this looked. Then I reached the final page. Wow, wow, wow. You killed it, sir. Bravo. I love what the team is doing here. Millar said he wanted to build some new ground for this team, and he's living up to that promise. Not since Waid have we had an FF book that didn't feel like a retread. Hope they keep it up. 9/10

Transformers Animated- Gotta love this little book. I liked the back-up in theory, but very little actually happened. It was cool to see Black Arachnia and Lockdown interact, but it felt pretty useless. Hopefully Isenberg is using this and issue #1's BA subplot to set something more up, but I don't see it. The main story with Bulkhead was pretty amusing, though. 8/10

X-Factor- The subplot with Jamie is really getting interesting. Great art change-up, too. 8/10

Amazing Spider-Man #577- Wells' issues often feel like they were written without a specific timeframe in mind. Considering that they're still pretty good, I can't complain. Rivera's art took a little time to grow on me, but by the end, I was completely sold. I'd love to see him on a Punisher ongoing. Speaking of...8/10

Punisher War Journal- This is the first issue by Chaykin where I didn't feel like I had to deal with the art to enjoy the story. It took him way too long to find himself. An interesting end to Frank and Clarke's relationship. Funny how Clarke started as one supporting character before becoming another. 8/10

Avengers/Invaders- Art looked a bit better in this issue. Interesting idea behind the cause of the time-rift, but it's also kind of sappy. Beautiful cover. This series is going to make an incredible hardcover. 7/10

Wolverine- I kind of wish the Moloid part didn't wrap up so tidy. An entire issue of Logan and Clint trying to survive the tunnels with McNiven on art could have been creepy. Anyone think Logan
was raped? It sounds crazy, but imagine how ****ed up that would be...
I dunno, maybe I'm crazy. 7/10

Spider-Girl- Decent issue, but "fergetaboutit"? Once I can forgive, twice is just sad. DeFalco, get some dialogue lessons. Yeesh. 7/10

Also bought: Walking Dead Vol.4 HC. Can't wait to start this one up.
 
It was one of those small but solid weeks in terms of comics for me, which is something neither I or my wallet mind. As always, full spoilers ahead.

Dread's BOUGHT/THOUGHT for 11/19/08:

DYNAMO 5 #18:
The story of the band of half-siblings joined together as a superhero team continues on it's third arc, and it has been an intense one. Asrar, co-creator of the franchise with writer Faerber and regular artist, gets top art credit although most of the pencils in the issue are filled in by Marcio Takara. Takara does a good job and his style fits in well with Asrar's, which is a skill of fill-in art that sometimes is missing from some runs.

Scatterbrain came out of retirement from D5 to bring Maddie out of her psychic coma from the last arc. She is none too pleased to find out that after she was incapacitated, the entire team disbanded. Of course, she doesn't quite know that losing her wasn't the main reason why they split, but one of the catalysts (there others being the revelation that Myriad was an alien, as well as Visionary and Slingshot wanting to protect or obey their foster parents). Scrap, the sole founding member of the team, has assembled an ad-hoc squad of heroes to try to protect the city, but their team dynamics are not the same. Widowmaker, the killer of Capt. Dynamo as well as the figure who assembled a raid on the aquarium last arc alongside Bonechill and Voltage, has assembled a new crew of super-villains to take down the new Dynamo 5. One of them is Zero, a freezing villain who has a history with the Firehearts (mother & daughter duo), which I thought was a little redundant since we already had Bonechill as a "freeze" villain and he had a superior design. I understand the difference in intensity and enemies between Zero and Bonechill and even why the Firebirds would have a freeze villain, but maybe Zero should have had a different power so it didn't seem redundant. Anyway, teamed with a few stock villain types with cool designs (Dr. Chimera the illusionist, Slaughterhouse the armored-guy, Firebreak the fire-vixen and Optima the Amazon-vixen). Most of them exist to either give the Firebirds some extra fleshing or to provide a decent fight, but they're solid designs so that is alright.

The new Dynamo 5 despite Scrap's leadership is unable to defeat the psychic criminals, who prey on their inexperience with working with each other (or, in the case of Quake, his mental illness). The fight is pretty cool and naturally Scrap's psychic plea for aid will help bring the real Dynamo 5 to her rescue. The final page cliffhanger about Vigil's identity is also pretty good. It was the best way to make the story work, but it still seemed like a worthy surprise to me.

The $3.50 price tag for 20 pages a month puts some people off, but honestly this book is just as good if not better than a SLEW of Marvel & DC team books out there that sell 3-5 times as many copies per month. The premise is good and it isn't a book that is trying to be more than it is, which is to provide a solid superhero action title with enough drama and character depth that the action is worthwhile. The art is always solid. Definately better than much of the product DC puts out. The trades may be a better value overall for those who are not aboard on the monthly, though. Some might think the change in team after a year is a "stunt" to kill time, but it is a bit of an obligatory team storyline and Faerber's DYNAMO 5, aside for the interesting premise, has never been about to remake the wheel with the genre, just to do it very well and efficiently. He has succeeded.

INVINCIBLE #55: Easily the issue that a LOT of fans have been waiting for across the internet, the mail pages, and so on for a variety of reasons. While Mark and Eve get jiggy with themselves, it is another all Allen the Alien issue to further the Viltrumite plot along. Much like the last time, Kirkman assumes the style of some classic 80's Marvel comics with his Allen segments, and the strength of them easily add fuel to the fire of Invinci-pals who want Allen to get a mini like Eve got.

For ten issues, Allen has posed as a captive of the Viltrumite empire to get close to Nolan, having learned that he was a prisoner for rebelling against the empire. The cell cannot hold him at all, but Allen plays along until the time is right, until the time Nolan is to be executed. He speaks psychically with Nolan and over the course of the issue it is revealed they have become close friends. Normally it might seem odd for a writer to have two characters pledge such an allegenice out of the blue but Kirkman reframes it to the greater story, winding all the way back to early volumes and makes it work. Execution is an honor for Viltrumites as they prefer to simply kill in battle, but when threats prove themselves "worthy" they must wait for Viltrumites to do it personally. At the right moment, Allen stages a jailbreak and he and Nolan take on two Viltrumite assassins, which they kill with relative ease. At this point, Allen appears mightier than even Nolan, which is a bit staggering. Ottley naturally does the action stuff well and the new colorist FCO Plascencia actually manages to make blood look more like, well, blood colors IMO.

Then of course there are two big reveals. The first is the return of Battle Beast, last seen working for Machine Head back in HC #2 simply out of a quest for worthy enemies to fight. He aids Allen and Nolan against the Viltrumites and is eager to fight them for sport. Battle Beast was probably asked about by mail in letters about once an issue (almost literally) so I am sure a lot of people will be pleased to see him. Ottley did give him a great design. The other reveal is Nolan explaining a key weakness to the Viltrumites; the only caveat was that it had been hinted at ages ago and was a bit obvious, although this was more specific. There are not many Viltrumites left and that is why they deligate tasks to other races they have conquored or allow Invincible so many chances; Nolan puts their number at "less than 50". Heck, at that rate, who needs the books; Allen could probably kill them over a few years one by one. It also makes Invincible and Oliver very important in the fight to come. Now THAT is going to be something, perhaps even the greatest arc of the series so far.

The dilemma, of course, would be what to do after the Viltrumite War that would be able to carry as much anticipation? Because right now the return of Angstrom Levy certainly isn't.

Still, really nothing negative about this issue. Great writing, great art, some great action panels, and another issue that proves why Invincible can earn it's tagline as "all-awesome". Plus, the 2 Mark/Eve pages were sweet.

The cover for the next issue asks if Mark would be willing to kill. Technically, the answer is yes, but only in the heat of battle and usually when his friends or family have been directly endangered or injured. But naturally I always look forward to more INVINCIBLE. The storylines in the epic continue to develop and intertwine with a universe full of characters in a single comic, instead of a line of a dozen of them in an endless crossover. Just like comics should be. INVINCIBLE, still my favorite book. At least on a week when CAPTAIN AMERICA isn't out.

FANTASTIC FOUR #561: This is as how a lot of people at SHH predicted. No, Sue doesn't die. Future/Alternate Reality Sue dies, or rather is murdered by Dr. Doom. Those fearing for the last decent marriage of the Marvel Universe can rest a little easier. Hardly anyone, myself included, genuinely believed Millar would kill Sue, and if so that it would hardly be permanent. While not without delays, at least this run has come out faster than most of the ULTIMATES runs, although some of the inking did appear rushed. Not that I mind too much.

Mr. Fantastic is able to track down the "New Defenders" via some microchip injections in her alternate reality wife and the three of them stage a rescue. The fight is short and sweet, with Ben getting the upper hand on the Hooded Man, who turns out to be Future Wolverine, which makes me wonder how he PWNED Johnny so good a few issues back. Reed, of course, manages to stop them from inserting an extra 8 billion people onto the planet and sends them to Nu Earth with Alyssa's blessing. And now I wonder who Logan had to screw to produce Banner's son. Anyway, the final panel has Doom take his revenge for his ordeal.

Overall, this run isn't bad. It isn't as ground-breaking as Millar believes it is, and obviously readers are not as thrilled as it is slipping back to the Top 35 just as quickly as it was boosted. But Millar genuinely likes the Four and the dynamic between them, and while he may not always think Reed & Sue are the best match (he says in interviews how unlikely a couple they are, at least in 616 where Sue is not a biologist as she is in Ultimate), he may not actually have the heart to split them for shock value (which, I should note, JMS came to the verge of doing). Johnny is a bit of an exaggeration of himself, but honestly Millar is not the first or last writer to do that. The art is solid although naturally not everyone will enjoy the Hitch designs and I am glad this is not so super-detailed that every issue takes 7 friggin' months. If another team had handled this same story, though, some might have compared it to McDuffie's story about a Future Four and it would not have garnered breathless Newsarama attention. Star-power, kids.

It is reminding me of the Whedon AXM run. Solid, but overrated. Actually, I probably prefer Whedon's dialogue. Still, it is more upbeat and less jingoist than a lot of his past work (I am thinking of WAR SOLDIERS, which seems a bit ridiculous now that Obama won).

GHOST RIDER #29: Basically a brawl between Ghost Riders as depicted on the cover. Hey, sometimes they are accurate! I am still not the best fan of Huat's art, but he draws Ghost Riders rather well.

Basically, Blaze and Ketch toss each other around for a bit and zap each other with the Penance Stare; unbolstered by Zadkiel and having cost many people in his life their lives, Blaze comes out the worse for it and has to be saved by Sarah. Not only that, but considering the Stare was technically Ketch's move first, it makes sense that he would be better able to withstand and deliver it. Blaze is shaken by the experience and loses his resolve until he and the warrior nun and met by two more Ghost Riders.

In a way, Aaron is running with the legacy aspect much as Brubaker & Fraction did with IRON FIST. The difference is that Ghost Rider was already a legacy hero with two well known Riders, whereas with Fist, it was all vague hints. The angel angle was a holdover from Way and Aaron has really made the best of things, providing an arc good enough to launch a mini about Ketch (that I hadn't bothered with). Sadly, sales are plummeting; the book is practically out of the Top 100 and by the end of this arc it may be canceled. But at the very least, Aaron would have more than proved himself on a mainstream franchise and redeemed this title in quality. Ride on.
 
The dilemma, of course, would be what to do after the Viltrumite War that would be able to carry as much anticipation? Because right now the return of Angstrom Levy certainly isn't.

Can't answer that myself, but so far the lack of a clear direction's actually been working pretty well for Fables, IMHO.

It COULD work for Invincible. Problem is, Kirkman does like to take his sweet time... Could get some people a lot more impatient with the book.
 
Anyone think Logan
was raped? It sounds crazy, but imagine how ****ed up that would be...
I dunno, maybe I'm crazy.

Millar is writing this right? If so, probably yeah.


FANTASTIC FOUR #561: This is as how a lot of people at SHH predicted. No, Sue doesn't die. Future/Alternate Reality Sue dies, or rather is murdered by Dr. Doom. Those fearing for the last decent marriage of the Marvel Universe can rest a little easier. Hardly anyone, myself included, genuinely believed Millar would kill Sue, and if so that it would hardly be permanent. While not without delays, at least this run has come out faster than most of the ULTIMATES runs, although some of the inking did appear rushed. Not that I mind too much.

Mr. Fantastic is able to track down the "New Defenders" via some microchip injections in her alternate reality wife and the three of them stage a rescue. The fight is short and sweet, with Ben getting the upper hand on the Hooded Man, who turns out to be Future Wolverine, which makes me wonder how he PWNED Johnny so good a few issues back. Reed, of course, manages to stop them from inserting an extra 8 billion people onto the planet and sends them to Nu Earth with Alyssa's blessing. And now I wonder who Logan had to screw to produce Banner's son. Anyway, the final panel has Doom take his revenge for his ordeal.

Overall, this run isn't bad. It isn't as ground-breaking as Millar believes it is, and obviously readers are not as thrilled as it is slipping back to the Top 35 just as quickly as it was boosted. But Millar genuinely likes the Four and the dynamic between them, and while he may not always think Reed & Sue are the best match (he says in interviews how unlikely a couple they are, at least in 616 where Sue is not a biologist as she is in Ultimate), he may not actually have the heart to split them for shock value (which, I should note, JMS came to the verge of doing). Johnny is a bit of an exaggeration of himself, but honestly Millar is not the first or last writer to do that. The art is solid although naturally not everyone will enjoy the Hitch designs and I am glad this is not so super-detailed that every issue takes 7 friggin' months. If another team had handled this same story, though, some might have compared it to McDuffie's story about a Future Four and it would not have garnered breathless Newsarama attention. Star-power, kids.

It is reminding me of the Whedon AXM run. Solid, but overrated. Actually, I probably prefer Whedon's dialogue. Still, it is more upbeat and less jingoist than a lot of his past work (I am thinking of WAR SOLDIERS, which seems a bit ridiculous now that Obama won).

On your FF review, you know what I love most about Millar/Hitch's FF run? How utterly irrelevant it is. No one is talking about it, and the hype for this book before it was released is now non-existant. Utterly forgettable. It won't even make it in the top 5 of great FF runs.:yay:
 
If you haven't heard a lot of talk about Millar's FF it probably means more good than bad. If it sucked you would hear a LOT of FF talk.
 
If you haven't heard a lot of talk about Millar's FF it probably means more good than bad. If it sucked you would hear a LOT of FF talk.

That's not my point at all though. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad, it's the fact that they hyped this up to be the second coming of christ, hell they had the audacity of comparing it to the Lee/Kirby run because it was going to be as many issues. The fact that no one talks about it has to be doing something to Millar's over inflated ego.
 
I'm sure people still stroke his ego about it. Someone out there likes it.
 
That's not my point at all though. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad, it's the fact that they hyped this up to be the second coming of christ, hell they had the audacity of comparing it to the Lee/Kirby run because it was going to be as many issues. The fact that no one talks about it has to be doing something to Millar's over inflated ego.
I prefer it to Lee/Kirby because I hate reading old comics. It takes twice as long to read something half as good as the newer comics.
 
The last issue of Iron Man: Director of SHIELD was decent. Nothing spectacular. It was nice to see the Crimson Dynamo pull a Captain America-style patriotism thing and openly defy his government because he serves the people of Russia. It's nice because it's rare that writers portray patriotic heroes outside of America with that sort of idealism and commitment to their nation. Usually other countries' national heroes are portrayed as little more than mercenaries at the government's beck and call.

Still not too hot on Rhodey being a cyborg, especially now that we see he's basically a quadriplegic with an X-treeeeem lazer eye. Didn't this kind of nonsense go out of style in the '90s? Oh well, Gage might be able to make it work. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and try to go into the War Machine series with an open mind. Other than his being a cyborg and stealing Tony's old schtick about needing the chestplate to survive, Rhodey was cool in the issue.
 
Thunderbolts was awesome.

If you don't read Thunderbolts, you're part of the problem.

Still not too hot on Rhodey being a cyborg, especially now that we see he's basically a quadriplegic with an X-treeeeem lazer eye. Didn't this kind of nonsense go out of style in the '90s? Oh well, Gage might be able to make it work. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and try to go into the War Machine series with an open mind.

You know that Gage isn't writing the War Machine book, right?
 
Oh, right... Pak is? I think it's Pak. I trust him as much as I trust Gage (in spite of WWH), so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt too.
 
You're right, Pak is and it will be awesome.
Boo bad taste. (Hooray beer)
So are you trying to say that comics have progressively gotten worse over the years? Because I'm pretty sure the art and writing have both gotten better with time.
 
So are you trying to say that comics have progressively gotten worse over the years? Because I'm pretty sure the art and writing have both gotten better with time.

No I was just thinking how to generalize all "old" comics as being inferior to "new shiney" comics is like saying shakespeare may have revolutionized literature but he's just not quite as good as that chick that wrote twillight cause there are cell phones in twillight.

And if you think all writing has gotten better you're clearly not reading Hulk, Black Panther, GA/BC, the ultimates or anything to do with the avengers.
 
At least there aren't fifty boxes/though bubbles telling you what is OBVIOUSLY HAPPENING IN THE PANEL anymore. I feel like I need to read them because I might miss something relevant and somehow I'm wrong about that every time.

And you can ***** about Bendis, Millar, etc. but I enjoy reading their comics much more than Stan's. Stan was the man because he was so original and for his time he was a great writer but that doesn't mean that he's automatically better than everyone.
 
Holy s***, there are cell phones in Twilight? I gotta stop making fun of my friend's wife about it and read that sucker myself! :wow: :wow: :wow:
 
At least there aren't fifty boxes/though bubbles telling you what is OBVIOUSLY HAPPENING IN THE PANEL anymore. I feel like I need to read them because I might miss something relevant and somehow I'm wrong about that every time.

And you can ***** about Bendis, Millar, etc. but I enjoy reading their comics much more than Stan's. Stan was the man because he was so original and for his time he was a great writer but that doesn't mean that he's automatically better than everyone.

Ok, I will Bendis and Millar (and I'll toss in Loeb as well) are mainly popular asshats extradordinarly formulaic in their approach, story structure and dialogue sequences. They've never broken new ground or done anything but expand upon the work of other (actual creators) men on concepts done to death. I'm glad you enjoy their writing, most people seem to but then again American Idol is an extremely popular show so mass opinion is typically just the LCD. Stan actually created characters and concepts completely original and changed the industry fundamentally in ways writers today could never dream to do. The level of creations, new storylines and dynamics are exactely what Bendis, Millar and Loeb crib off of for every story.

So thought bubbles were very obvious back then huh? Do you think that's better or worse than say bendis' repetative dialogue which literally repeats back the exact same thing but with different puncuation marks at the end? Maybe you think Millar's formulaic storytelling of just "edging up" everything and bringing in shock for shock sake into stories already done aren't that obvious? I guess every generation has their obvious indicators. The difference being when stan did that it was to explain things you thought obvious to the young kids reading it so it actually had a purpose and function where with Millar and Bendis you've just got filler, but hey they've got superheroes cursing a lot, so it's trendy and therefore better.

I'm not saying all old things were better, I'm not that idealistic or nostalgic but what you're basically saying the Beatles aren't quite the caliber artist the Jonas brothers are, and that just makes my brain cry.
 
Holy s***, there are cell phones in Twilight? I gotta stop making fun of my friend's wife about it and read that sucker myself! :wow: :wow: :wow:

I'm not actually sure about that, but I'd put money on it. (damn south park was funny last night about this ****)
 
I'm not saying all old things were better, I'm not that idealistic or nostalgic but what you're basically saying the Beatles aren't quite the caliber artist the Jonas brothers are, and that just makes my brain cry.
How about using an analogy that isn't completely pointless? Enjoying Bendis' DD or Millar's Ultimates better than the DD or Avengers of Stan Lee is not the same thing as liking the ****ing Jonas brothers better than the ****ing Beatles. And I love the Beatles and HATE the Jonas brothers, so again, your comparisons are completely without merit.

And yeah, Stan was more creative. I'm pretty sure I JUST SAID THAT IN MY PREVIOUS POST. So why are you arguing this point? You're agreeing with me.

But being creative doesn't equal writing great dialogue. And no, having a Spidey thinking what is OBVIOUSLY HAPPENING IN THE PANEL doesn't have a point because even little kids undertand it. You should know this because blind kids don't read comics.
 
Ok, I will Bendis and Millar (and I'll toss in Loeb as well) are mainly popular asshats extradordinarly formulaic in their approach, story structure and dialogue sequences. They've never broken new ground or done anything but expand upon the work of other (actual creators) men on concepts done to death. I'm glad you enjoy their writing, most people seem to but then again American Idol is an extremely popular show so mass opinion is typically just the LCD. Stan actually created characters and concepts completely original and changed the industry fundamentally in ways writers today could never dream to do. The level of creations, new storylines and dynamics are exactely what Bendis, Millar and Loeb crib off of for every story.

So thought bubbles were very obvious back then huh? Do you think that's better or worse than say bendis' repetative dialogue which literally repeats back the exact same thing but with different puncuation marks at the end? Maybe you think Millar's formulaic storytelling of just "edging up" everything and bringing in shock for shock sake into stories already done aren't that obvious? I guess every generation has their obvious indicators. The difference being when stan did that it was to explain things you thought obvious to the young kids reading it so it actually had a purpose and function where with Millar and Bendis you've just got filler, but hey they've got superheroes cursing a lot, so it's trendy and therefore better.

I'm not saying all old things were better, I'm not that idealistic or nostalgic but what you're basically saying the Beatles aren't quite the caliber artist the Jonas brothers are, and that just makes my brain cry.

You know what I love about Mark Millar is how an ordinary character comes up with one good plan, but a Mark Millar comes up with forty-seven, extraordinarily super-brilliant perfecto-fabulous plans. And then we only ever see one of them, but hey!
 
How about using an analogy that isn't completely pointless? Enjoying Bendis' DD or Millar's Ultimates better than the DD or Avengers of Stan Lee is not the same thing as liking the ****ing Jonas brothers better than the ****ing Beatles. And I love the Beatles and HATE the Jonas brothers, so again, your comparisons are completely without merit.

It goes with the whole ground breaking creator of older times vs. new hack cribbing off others, so yeah it's valid. Sorry if your own choices and logic imploded there, but that's not my fault.

And yeah, Stan was more creative. I'm pretty sure I JUST SAID THAT IN MY PREVIOUS POST. So why are you arguing this point? You're agreeing with me.

Well you said more creative but you find today's fare BETTER. I was saying that being better would mean you'd actually have to be better than the person you're comparing too. Lee was more creative (an important standard for the talent of a writer) and made most of the stories, concepts and plot that the guys you love use for all their stories. It's like saying an update of a movie or song is better than the original. It's a hard sell since the originator actually created the song or movie and the new person is merely updating it to fit with a new era. I also explained how lee was simply put a better writer, true his stuff now doesn't fit with the times (he's of a different era) but to say those people even come close to lee or kirby's talent is more of a streach then jonas bros>beatles.

But being creative doesn't equal writing great dialogue. And no, having a Spidey thinking what is OBVIOUSLY HAPPENING IN THE PANEL doesn't have a point because even little kids undertand it. You should know this because blind kids don't read comics.

Look you're arguing period dialogue and missing the point. Casablanca is an amazing movie. It had fantastic dialogue. It's dated and wouldn't fit with today, but the level and quality of the words are timeless. Just like shakespeare. But it's cool to like new shiney things, they're something you can relate to without having to really think and explore something out of your direct world and that's much easier for most to comprehend so I get that. But to say it's better is just wrong on all sorts of levels.
 
Well you said more creative but you find today's fare BETTER. I was saying that being better would mean you'd actually have to be better than the person you're comparing too.

Not really true. It's entirely possible for someone to enjoy a Millar or Bendis story over a Lee story because a given Bendis or Millar story basically is whichever Lee story but with more modern trappings and a higher level of polish. Doesn't mean Lee wasn't brilliant when he came up with the original work of whatever level of inventive brilliance just that the same thing looks better to some people after it's been tarted up under Bendis or Millar's writin'-pen and whichever newfangled artist's drawin'-inks. This doesn't even mean that those people don't recognize that Lee was the much more inventive writer they just like those ideas better when they're presented in a different way.

Look you're arguing period dialogue and missing the point. Casablanca is an amazing movie. It had fantastic dialogue. It's dated and wouldn't fit with today, but the level and quality of the words are timeless. Just like shakespeare. But it's cool to like new shiney things, they're something you can relate to without having to really think and explore something out of your direct world and that's much easier for most to comprehend so I get that. But to say it's better is just wrong on all sorts of levels.

That's true because Casablanca had beautifully subtle and clever plotting and dialogue. Lee may have been a lot of things but I don't think anyone's ever really accused him of being a literary stylist.
 
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