Bought/Thought 3/26

[kainedamo]

Plagiarism is plagiarism.

Do you have any idea how many artists base some of their characters from celebrities or photographs of people they know?

 

[Ion Kenshin]

basinig it off the photo is one thing ...copying the picture exactly is another all together

 

[kainedamo]

NEW AVENGERS #39:

This issue is about Echo, who in some ways has taken the role of Spider-Woman on the book; an angsty, mysterious assassin-type woman who usually is lost in the shuffle unless an issue like this is devoted to her. She doesn't feel like she belongs as an Avenger or that their team is accomplishing much, so she seeks out Daredevil to ask why he recommended her to Capt. America in the first place. And then she suspects he is a Skrull, and accuses him. And then...he reveals himself, makes it blatant, and is killed by Echo & Wolverine.

Now, this doesn't work.

No, the issue isn't connecting with Brubaker's DD. To the best of my knowledge, DD spends time outside the U.S. over there so the impersonation could have happened easily at various points. No, the issue is how Bendis presents the new Skrull threat. This issue reveals that he has, once again, written himself into a hole by only writing about something "that'd be cool" without thinking of the consequences. In this case, that "something" is the notion of brand, new, "efficient" Skrulls who cannot be detected via scent, psychic powers, technology, spider-sense, or even Sorcerer Supreme level magic (which is utterly ******ed). The Skrulls are gene-modified to be 100% undetectable now, as well as sprout super-powers. The big danger about this entire event is that no one can tell who is a Skrull and who isn't. Ooooo, WHO DO YOU TRUST!? Only the problem is, when you want to have a story like this, where one character stumbles upon a Skrull and they leak random hints about the subsequent invasion...you have NO good way of figuring how that hero unravels it. There's always the "threat is killed and shockingly becomes a Skrull", but Bendis already did this with Elektra. So, this time, all that it takes for a Skrull to out himself...is being accused in a threatening manner. This isn't the first place we have seen this; both Luke Cage and Iron Man seem to believe the only way to hunt for Skrulls is getting nose-to-nose with someone who is calling them on their paranoid baloney and screaming, "ARE YOU A SKRULL!?" or a thought balloon that is similar. By eliminating all the reasonable ways to out a Skrull, Bendis now has to rely on unreasonable ones that rely on dumb luck or incompetence, the latter being a theme he seems to love exploring (see USM, the most incompetent superhero ever written).

I mean, the DD Skrull could have simply denied Echo. Could have done nothing even if Echo attacked. Could have tried to play off that Echo was the Skrull, attacking Daredevil, and getting her own team to capture or kill her. But, then this issue couldn't be the way it is. So in light of the "super-morph" addition, Skrulls now have to be even dumber than usual to be vetted. And if they are so stupid as to be easily riled into blowing cover that not even a rookie undercover cop would blow, then it is hard to take S.I. as seriously as the powers-that-be want us to. I mean, the promotion campaign for it has officially gone from annoying to obscene.

The sad bit is the rest of the issue works. Logan and Echo connect, and then Echo does what Wanda Maximoff does; sleep with Clint. Or talk about sleeping with Clint. In this case, both. But Clint's a horn-dog so it works out. Some of Mack's panels and art work awkwardly with the dialogue and captions, like he was drawing a script meant for Maleev. But compared to the usual teeth-clenching-hate that usually comes with an issue of NA, this isn't bad.

I wanna comment on your idea that the Skrull was stupid for outting himself once confronted.

The Skrull completely tripped over himself and looked like an idiot. There was no way Echo would have believed him and would maybe have attacked even if he denied it.

"Oh, that was BEFOOOOOOORE Cap died. Gotcha. So, things worked out. Right? Right??" He looked like a tool, and would have looked even dumber if he tried to deny being a Skrull. I'm certain she would have attacked.

 

[Darthphere]

basinig it off the photo is one thing ...copying the picture exactly is another all together

Yeah, like in the last issue of X-Factor, Madrox was totally based on that *****e from Reaper.

 

[Egotastic]

What now?

 

[Ion Kenshin]

dont watch that show so i wouldnt kno

 

[Darthphere]

Jesus?

 

[Kitsune]

basinig it off the photo is one thing ...copying the picture exactly is another all together

Anyone remember this?

"Plagerize, Plagerize, that's why the Good Lord made your eyes"

 

[Ion Kenshin]

^^^nope cant say that i do

 

[Kitsune]

^^^nope cant say that i do

Tom Lehrer is great:
http://www.lyricsdir.com/tom-lehrer-lobachevsky-lyrics.html

 

[Doc Destruction]

Dude, you must be as old as I am to remember Tom Lehrer. Poisoning Pidgeons in the Park is such a great song.

 

[Kitsune]

Dude, you must be as old as I am to remember Tom Lehrer. Poisoning Pidgeons in the Park is such a great song.

It's from before my time, but I've been exposed to it.

 

[Doc Destruction]

I've had dates like that!

 

[Dread]

I don't entirely disagree, but there will eventually be some (no doubt overly dramatic) way of telling them apart discovered most likely by tony.

If it involves Spider-Woman, I may just scream. She's often his dues ex machina character. I mean it is great she's back in the limelight, but...

This changes your argument completely from "this was bad writing because the skrull collapsed under a simple question" (which would be a fair comment if it were so) to "this is bad writing because a skrull got surprised by wolverine" which seems harsh.

I felt it was because the Skrull collapsed under a simple question. Echo thought "DD" was acting odd and all but accused him of being a Skrull, and then he automatically reveals himself with flashy powers. It was ******ed. Not even Rhino is that reckless.

Now, if "DD" had simply tried to play it off another way, maybe claim it had been "a rough few weeks", or even play defense while Echo attacked to try to turn her team against her (and this a better way to remove her from the stage), that could have worked. After all, Echo should be the one they trust the LEAST. Sure, Logan's mysterious too, but he has a Grandfather Clause in Mysterious. She doesn't. She's just some random karate broad Matt vouched for once who is Elektra Lite.

But, no, the Skrull assumed that he/she could simply laugh melodramatically, unload flashy powers and no other superhero within New York City would notice. Because, y'know, there are so few superheroes in New York City.

I cannot think of a better way to assasinate echo than simply approach her when she is alone and kill her, it's simple an effective. The skrull didn't know logan was there.

I could argue to have all the powers that were unleashed that issue and NOT some sort of enhanced senses/radar sense to detect incoming people is also tactically ******ed. You give your warriors enough powers to fight a small team but NOT any enhanced senses to detect a cavalry. DUMB. Bendis has written the Skrulls as being so clever and so smart that they may have taken over the world already, and yet when push comes to shove they're dumber than dirt, easily rattled and can be goaded into revealing themselves by someone with a grade school diploma in playing emotions. That really isn't any better than space-ships and laser blasters, is it?

Between this and MIGHTY AVENGERS, I get the feeling that if you hooked up the entire planet to Cerebro and a psychic asked the world's population, in an angry tone, "ARE YOU A SKRULL!?", they'd all reveal themselves. And that ain't good.

Measily? A bendis written female character is by definition invincible

Touche.

And yeah I have pretty much zero interest in this too

Gotcha.

I wanna comment on your idea that the Skrull was stupid for outting himself once confronted.

The Skrull completely tripped over himself and looked like an idiot. There was no way Echo would have believed him and would maybe have attacked even if he denied it.

"Oh, that was BEFOOOOOOORE Cap died. Gotcha. So, things worked out. Right? Right??" He looked like a tool, and would have looked even dumber if he tried to deny being a Skrull. I'm certain she would have attacked.

He could have simply claimed he had been away a while, been under stress. If she attacked, he could have played it against her. I mean, it is NEW YOKR CITY. You can't swing a dead cat without running into a superhero.

If I wanted to kill and replace someone, I'd wait until they were in bed, asleep, and slit their throat. I wouldn't shift into someone whose act I hadn't perfected, and then at a moment's error and confrontation, unleash my flashy powers while cackling madly and all but begging some other superhero, whether Wolverine or Capt. Ultra, to waltz by.

A 7 year old with palsy playing METAL GEAR SOLID wouldn't have been as foolish. And it took me right out of the issue.

 

[prince_dylan]

John wasn't a marine in the DCU until a couple issues ago.

Retcon.

okay. point made, then.

Corp, is Stewart a Marine in the animated series?

 

[gildea]

I don't recall saying that it doesn't happen. Was just correcting your assertion that I said it doesn't happen in other mediums. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Fair comment. I inferred too much from your suggestion it isn't tolerated in other mediums which I disagree with, heck in some cases it's celebrated (reservoir dogs anyone?).

Damnit fiend, my comeback is less scathing if you've already said the same thing.

I actually felt pretty scathed so no worries

 

[kainedamo]

He could have simply claimed he had been away a while, been under stress. If she attacked, he could have played it against her. I mean, it is NEW YOKR CITY. You can't swing a dead cat without running into a superhero.

If I wanted to kill and replace someone, I'd wait until they were in bed, asleep, and slit their throat. I wouldn't shift into someone whose act I hadn't perfected, and then at a moment's error and confrontation, unleash my flashy powers while cackling madly and all but begging some other superhero, whether Wolverine or Capt. Ultra, to waltz by.

A 7 year old with palsy playing METAL GEAR SOLID wouldn't have been as foolish. And it took me right out of the issue.

I can see where you're coming from. I'd agree that killing them while asleep all secret like would be best. The problem with that is, she sleeps in Dr. Strange's house. Surrounded by other Avengers that sleep there. The Skrulls needed someone to infiltrate the New Avengers and decided Echo would be the best candidate to replace. I think having a Skrull pose as DD is perfectly "under the radar" and stealthy. Obviously the Skrull didn't think he'd be discovered and could have easily have taken Echo out if only she hadn't caught on. And wasn't being followed by Wolverine.

 

[Dread]

I can see where you're coming from. I'd agree that killing them while asleep all secret like would be best. The problem with that is, she sleeps in Dr. Strange's house. Surrounded by other Avengers that sleep there. The Skrulls needed someone to infiltrate the New Avengers and decided Echo would be the best candidate to replace. I think having a Skrull pose as DD is perfectly "under the radar" and stealthy. Obviously the Skrull didn't think he'd be discovered and could have easily have taken Echo out if only she hadn't caught on. And wasn't being followed by Wolverine.

Actually, Dr. Strange kicked them out. They room with Daniel Rand now, whose only purpose on that book is to provide the money that Stark used to.

I still contend that you can't fluctuate between the Skrulls being retcon-threatening Earth masters while being dumber than a post when something begins to go wrong.

Anyway, it seems like this event has been built and promoted for 400 years, and I will be happy when it is over. And it hasn't even begun. I mean, seriously, like a line wide crossover written by Bendis NEEDED all the over-indulgence of hype.

Really, all they needed was a black poster with white letters:

BENDIS.

EVENT.

GIVE US YOUR MONEY, SUCKERS!

And suckers like me always come.

 

[kainedamo]

Haha, yeah, you're the one buying it and then whining

I enjoyed the issue a lot. I think you're putting way too much thought into the DD/Skrull revealing himself and fighting. Just my opinion.

 

[Dread]

Haha, yeah, you're the one buying it and then whining

I enjoyed the issue a lot. I think you're putting way too much thought into the DD/Skrull revealing himself and fighting. Just my opinion.

I did call myself a sucker, I am aware.

NEW AVENGERS is the #1 ongoing book in the industry. Out of ANY book that should get thought, it should be that one.

 

[gildea]

Actually, Dr. Strange kicked them out. They room with Daniel Rand now, whose only purpose on that book is to provide the money that Stark used to.

Hey complain all you want at least he has a genuine plot point that brings something to the team.

New avengers Meeting

Luke Cage : Hey I lead the team and bendis has a man crush on me
Ronin : I'm really hawkeye, i'm on the team to try and make internet whiners lay off a little
Echo : I'm a creation of one of bendis's bestest mates david macks (or am i someone elses creation being passed off as his).
Wolerine and Spidey : we're hear for sales
Doctor strange : I used to be on the team to give them a fighting chance if the mighty avengers ever showed up, however it turns out THEY WILL ALWAYS LET US GO so i'm no longer needed
Danny Rand: I provide finance, FEAR ME for having a solely comic book related reason for being on the team

 

[fifthfiend]

Damnit fiend, my comeback is less scathing if you've already said the same thing.

Every once in a while I get this inexplicable urge to helpfully correct an honest misunderstanding. Then afterwards I remember that this is the Hype and people are really just here looking for excuses to be *******s to each other.

(Which of course I say with my totally unblemished right to judge other people for doing that.)

 

[RockSP]

okay. point made, then.

Corp, is Stewart a Marine in the animated series?

Yeah. He is. You never watched Justice League?

 

[Dread]

Hey complain all you want at least he has a genuine plot point that brings something to the team.

New avengers Meeting

Luke Cage : Hey I lead the team and bendis has a man crush on me
Ronin : I'm really hawkeye, i'm on the team to try and make internet whiners lay off a little
Echo : I'm a creation of one of bendis's bestest mates david macks (or am i someone elses creation being passed off as his).
Wolerine and Spidey : we're hear for sales
Doctor strange : I used to be on the team to give them a fighting chance if the mighty avengers ever showed up, however it turns out THEY WILL ALWAYS LET US GO so i'm no longer needed
Danny Rand: I provide finance, FEAR ME for having a solely comic book related reason for being on the team

Point.

Although you could argue that Spider-Man was technically a reserve Avenger before the Joe Q era and showed up for a few missions, although he quit that status by the end of the 90's.

 

[prince_dylan]

Yeah. He is. You never watched Justice League?

i have the first season, but i don't remember anything past that.
never really watched much after said season.

smacks on the hand if this was brought up in the opening season.